109 réponses à ce sujet

[javierabegazo]

Guys, several things

1. No Quote Pyramids. Edit your quoting please
2. Remember to discuss in a respectful manner, no matter HOW MUCH you disagree or dislike another user.

[greed89]

Dr. Nexas wrote...



Er, I just gave you a reason; it's been overused.

Saren
Benezia
TIM/Cerberus
Kenson

You can only use "mind-control" as a twist so many times before it's just yawn.

Yes, it's a big weapon for the Reapers, but mind control is mind control. You don't have to put too much thought into why a character does things if you can just say they were mind-controlled.

And particularly if you do it to people's LI, or a specifically LI(I see a lot of Tali/Garrus hate, as always people just mad they're so popular...), it serves *no* purpose other than pissing off the player.

Its never ben used to hit Shepard that close to home thogh So it wouldnt be the same as just having a bad guy who was controlled, and  The player Getting pissed off is good it means they care and there invested

With the VS its the smartest thign to do cause it s the only way to explain the BS on horizion and there a character thay your gonna have mandatory in ME3

Modifié par greed89, 16 juin 2011 - 03:48 .

[KainrycKarr]

greed89 wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...



Er, I just gave you a reason; it's been overused.

Saren
Benezia
TIM/Cerberus
Kenson

You can only use "mind-control" as a twist so many times before it's just yawn.

Yes, it's a big weapon for the Reapers, but mind control is mind control. You don't have to put too much thought into why a character does things if you can just say they were mind-controlled.

And particularly if you do it to people's LI, or a specifically LI(I see a lot of Tali/Garrus hate, as always people just mad they're so popular...), it serves *no* purpose other than pissing off the player.

Its never ben used to hit Shepard that close to home thogh So it wouldnt be the same as just having a bad guy who was controlled, and  The player Getting pissed off is good it means they care and there invested

With the VS its the smartest thign to do cause it s the only way to explain the BS on horizion and there a character thay your gonna have mandatory in ME3

Just because it "hits close to home" doesn't mean anything. If, say, Tali *had* to get indoctrinated and die, it wouldn't "hit close to home" for me. It would tick me off and feel like I wasted a lot of in-game time.

Just because it *is* a twist, doesn't mean it's a *good* twist. Savvy?

To the first bolded.....no, you never want to ****** off your fanbase. That's a really, bad idea.

To the second bolded, again...refer to the first bit. If you screw over one LI, you have to screw over the others, or you're going to have a *lot* of pissed off fans, and rightly so.

A player shouldn't be punished by a forced indoctrination/death just because the VS is their favorite romance.

[MysticMage44]

Tali. So when those who romanced tali go in for the big love making scene, Tali pulls out a knife and repeatedly stabs Shepard and kills him. Instant game over.

[greed89]

KainrycKarr wrote...

greed89 wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...



Er, I just gave you a reason; it's been overused.

Saren
Benezia
TIM/Cerberus
Kenson

You can only use "mind-control" as a twist so many times before it's just yawn.

Yes, it's a big weapon for the Reapers, but mind control is mind control. You don't have to put too much thought into why a character does things if you can just say they were mind-controlled.

And particularly if you do it to people's LI, or a specifically LI(I see a lot of Tali/Garrus hate, as always people just mad they're so popular...), it serves *no* purpose other than pissing off the player.

Its never ben used to hit Shepard that close to home thogh So it wouldnt be the same as just having a bad guy who was controlled, and  The player Getting pissed off is good it means they care and there invested

With the VS its the smartest thign to do cause it s the only way to explain the BS on horizion and there a character thay your gonna have mandatory in ME3

Just because it "hits close to home" doesn't mean anything. If, say, Tali *had* to get indoctrinated and die, it wouldn't "hit close to home" for me. It would tick me off and feel like I wasted a lot of in-game time.

Just because it *is* a twist, doesn't mean it's a *good* twist. Savvy?

To the first bolded.....no, you never want to ****** off your fanbase. That's a really, bad idea.

To the second bolded, again...refer to the first bit. If you screw over one LI, you have to screw over the others, or you're going to have a *lot* of pissed off fans, and rightly so.

A player shouldn't be punished by a forced indoctrination/death just because the VS is their favorite romance.

You  cant please every one and telling the best story is what is important even if a minor section of the fanbase is angry

no one is sayign death you could probly save them if they go this route, and trust me that would be very rewarding

And when i say Close to home iam talking inregards to some one in Shepards Circle

[KainrycKarr]

greed89 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

greed89 wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...



Er, I just gave you a reason; it's been overused.

Saren
Benezia
TIM/Cerberus
Kenson

You can only use "mind-control" as a twist so many times before it's just yawn.

Yes, it's a big weapon for the Reapers, but mind control is mind control. You don't have to put too much thought into why a character does things if you can just say they were mind-controlled.

And particularly if you do it to people's LI, or a specifically LI(I see a lot of Tali/Garrus hate, as always people just mad they're so popular...), it serves *no* purpose other than pissing off the player.

Its never ben used to hit Shepard that close to home thogh So it wouldnt be the same as just having a bad guy who was controlled, and  The player Getting pissed off is good it means they care and there invested

With the VS its the smartest thign to do cause it s the only way to explain the BS on horizion and there a character thay your gonna have mandatory in ME3

Just because it "hits close to home" doesn't mean anything. If, say, Tali *had* to get indoctrinated and die, it wouldn't "hit close to home" for me. It would tick me off and feel like I wasted a lot of in-game time.

Just because it *is* a twist, doesn't mean it's a *good* twist. Savvy?

To the first bolded.....no, you never want to ****** off your fanbase. That's a really, bad idea.

To the second bolded, again...refer to the first bit. If you screw over one LI, you have to screw over the others, or you're going to have a *lot* of pissed off fans, and rightly so.

A player shouldn't be punished by a forced indoctrination/death just because the VS is their favorite romance.

You  cant please every one and telling the best story is what is important even if a minor section of the fanbase is angry

no one is sayign death you could probly save them if they go this route, and trust me that would be very rewarding

And when i say Close to home iam talking inregards to some one in Shepards Circle

No, you can't please everyone, but there's a lot of ground between that, and specifically alienating an LI's fanbase just because you felt the need to force a betrayal into the scene.

Repeatedly using "mind-control" as a justification for character's actions is *NOT* the path for a good story.

[greed89]

KainrycKarr wrote...

greed89 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

greed89 wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...



Er, I just gave you a reason; it's been overused.

Saren
Benezia
TIM/Cerberus
Kenson

You can only use "mind-control" as a twist so many times before it's just yawn.

Yes, it's a big weapon for the Reapers, but mind control is mind control. You don't have to put too much thought into why a character does things if you can just say they were mind-controlled.

And particularly if you do it to people's LI, or a specifically LI(I see a lot of Tali/Garrus hate, as always people just mad they're so popular...), it serves *no* purpose other than pissing off the player.

Its never ben used to hit Shepard that close to home thogh So it wouldnt be the same as just having a bad guy who was controlled, and  The player Getting pissed off is good it means they care and there invested

With the VS its the smartest thign to do cause it s the only way to explain the BS on horizion and there a character thay your gonna have mandatory in ME3

Just because it "hits close to home" doesn't mean anything. If, say, Tali *had* to get indoctrinated and die, it wouldn't "hit close to home" for me. It would tick me off and feel like I wasted a lot of in-game time.

Just because it *is* a twist, doesn't mean it's a *good* twist. Savvy?

To the first bolded.....no, you never want to ****** off your fanbase. That's a really, bad idea.

To the second bolded, again...refer to the first bit. If you screw over one LI, you have to screw over the others, or you're going to have a *lot* of pissed off fans, and rightly so.

A player shouldn't be punished by a forced indoctrination/death just because the VS is their favorite romance.

You  cant please every one and telling the best story is what is important even if a minor section of the fanbase is angry

no one is sayign death you could probly save them if they go this route, and trust me that would be very rewarding

And when i say Close to home iam talking inregards to some one in Shepards Circle

No, you can't please everyone, but there's a lot of ground between that, and specifically alienating an LI's fanbase just because you felt the need to force a betrayal into the scene.

Repeatedly using "mind-control" as a justification for character's actions is *NOT* the path for a good story.

MAybe if theres no precident for it, But there is one in this case

And VS Fanbase was already alineted when the A and K Got regulated to Cameo's This would actualy make the charcters important to the plot instead of Hannger ons and potentialy creat  the most rewarding romance arc in the game

[KainrycKarr]

greed89 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

greed89 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

greed89 wrote...

Dr. Nexas wrote...



Er, I just gave you a reason; it's been overused.

Saren
Benezia
TIM/Cerberus
Kenson

You can only use "mind-control" as a twist so many times before it's just yawn.

Yes, it's a big weapon for the Reapers, but mind control is mind control. You don't have to put too much thought into why a character does things if you can just say they were mind-controlled.

And particularly if you do it to people's LI, or a specifically LI(I see a lot of Tali/Garrus hate, as always people just mad they're so popular...), it serves *no* purpose other than pissing off the player.

Its never ben used to hit Shepard that close to home thogh So it wouldnt be the same as just having a bad guy who was controlled, and  The player Getting pissed off is good it means they care and there invested

With the VS its the smartest thign to do cause it s the only way to explain the BS on horizion and there a character thay your gonna have mandatory in ME3

Just because it "hits close to home" doesn't mean anything. If, say, Tali *had* to get indoctrinated and die, it wouldn't "hit close to home" for me. It would tick me off and feel like I wasted a lot of in-game time.

Just because it *is* a twist, doesn't mean it's a *good* twist. Savvy?

To the first bolded.....no, you never want to ****** off your fanbase. That's a really, bad idea.

To the second bolded, again...refer to the first bit. If you screw over one LI, you have to screw over the others, or you're going to have a *lot* of pissed off fans, and rightly so.

A player shouldn't be punished by a forced indoctrination/death just because the VS is their favorite romance.

You  cant please every one and telling the best story is what is important even if a minor section of the fanbase is angry

no one is sayign death you could probly save them if they go this route, and trust me that would be very rewarding

And when i say Close to home iam talking inregards to some one in Shepards Circle

No, you can't please everyone, but there's a lot of ground between that, and specifically alienating an LI's fanbase just because you felt the need to force a betrayal into the scene.

Repeatedly using "mind-control" as a justification for character's actions is *NOT* the path for a good story.

MAybe if theres no precident for it, But there is one in this case

And VS Fanbase was already alineted when the A and K Got regulated to Cameo's This would actualy make the charcters important to the plot instead of Hannger ons and potentialy creat  the most rewarding romance arc in the game

Yes, they've already been alienated, so let's alienate them some more?

How would forcing them into indoctrination make it the most rewarding romance arc in the game?

[Pax of Doom]

greed89 wrote...

No oen has given a real reason why it would be a Bad thing

Indoctrination is the Reapers Greatest Weapon, it make sense for them to use it aginst shepard in a  way were it would really hurt

Their is ground work for it if it is the VS [its more ridiculous to belive they just happend to get passed over by the collectors]

It stretches the bounds of believability.  There are only a few who would have the opportunity to have become indoctrinated.

If indoctrination requires sustained exposure to a Reaper artifact/device over time, possibilities include, most likely:

Shepard - Implanted with advanced Cerberus cybernetics source unknown
Miranda & Jacob - Cerberus personnel, and possible exposure at Lazarus
Jack - Cerberus test subject
Liara - Prothean studies could have unwittingly included Reaper tech
Any saved crew from Normandy, after being in Collector base

Least likely:

Garrus, Thane, Kasumi, Zaeed, Grunt, Wrex, Tali, Mordin, Samara/Morinth - they had little to no contact with anything Reaper/Saren/Collector before joining Shepard.

Wild card possibilities:

James Vega - he's an unknown entity, so we cannot really speculate either way
VS - although they were at Horizon and hit by a seeker, it's speculation to say they may have become indoctrinated.  Unless they were specifically hunting Collectors and were exposed, but again little evidence.  That the Collectors targeted Horizon specifically to get them is questionable, as their real goal was Shepard, and what better way than to get a former crew member/possible LI.

To further muddy the water, whoever you took on your missions in ME1, and specifically whoever you took for the final boss fight, may have exposure to everything

Honestly, the most likely would be Shepard - the cybernetics, the Cerberus connection, and Arrival's lost few days - yet that would make the least sense.  After all, Shepard is fighting against the Reapers, right?  (right?  )

Add this one to the list of those who think it would be awful to have some betrayer in Shepard's midst.

[greed89]

Pax of Doom wrote...

greed89 wrote...

No oen has given a real reason why it would be a Bad thing

Indoctrination is the Reapers Greatest Weapon, it make sense for them to use it aginst shepard in a  way were it would really hurt

Their is ground work for it if it is the VS [its more ridiculous to belive they just happend to get passed over by the collectors]

It stretches the bounds of believability.  There are only a few who would have the opportunity to have become indoctrinated.

If indoctrination requires sustained exposure to a Reaper artifact/device over time, possibilities include, most likely:

Shepard - Implanted with advanced Cerberus cybernetics source unknown
Miranda & Jacob - Cerberus personnel, and possible exposure at Lazarus
Jack - Cerberus test subject
Liara - Prothean studies could have unwittingly included Reaper tech
Any saved crew from Normandy, after being in Collector base

Least likely:

Garrus, Thane, Kasumi, Zaeed, Grunt, Wrex, Tali, Mordin, Samara/Morinth - they had little to no contact with anything Reaper/Saren/Collector before joining Shepard.

Wild card possibilities:

James Vega - he's an unknown entity, so we cannot really speculate either way
VS - although they were at Horizon and hit by a seeker, it's speculation to say they may have become indoctrinated.  Unless they were specifically hunting Collectors and were exposed, but again little evidence.  That the Collectors targeted Horizon specifically to get them is questionable, as their real goal was Shepard, and what better way than to get a former crew member/possible LI.

To further muddy the water, whoever you took on your missions in ME1, and specifically whoever you took for the final boss fight, may have exposure to everything

Honestly, the most likely would be Shepard - the cybernetics, the Cerberus connection, and Arrival's lost few days - yet that would make the least sense.  After all, Shepard is fighting against the Reapers, right?  (right?  )

Add this one to the list of those who think it would be awful to have some betrayer in Shepard's midst.

Which is why it should be the VS

It Is Belivble, It Clears up a MASIVE plot hole from the previous game, and It Gives them some plot relevence

Modifié par greed89, 16 juin 2011 - 04:41 .

[KainrycKarr]

greed89 wrote...

Pax of Doom wrote...

greed89 wrote...

No oen has given a real reason why it would be a Bad thing

Indoctrination is the Reapers Greatest Weapon, it make sense for them to use it aginst shepard in a  way were it would really hurt

Their is ground work for it if it is the VS [its more ridiculous to belive they just happend to get passed over by the collectors]

It stretches the bounds of believability.  There are only a few who would have the opportunity to have become indoctrinated.

If indoctrination requires sustained exposure to a Reaper artifact/device over time, possibilities include, most likely:

Shepard - Implanted with advanced Cerberus cybernetics source unknown
Miranda & Jacob - Cerberus personnel, and possible exposure at Lazarus
Jack - Cerberus test subject
Liara - Prothean studies could have unwittingly included Reaper tech
Any saved crew from Normandy, after being in Collector base

Least likely:

Garrus, Thane, Kasumi, Zaeed, Grunt, Wrex, Tali, Mordin, Samara/Morinth - they had little to no contact with anything Reaper/Saren/Collector before joining Shepard.

Wild card possibilities:

James Vega - he's an unknown entity, so we cannot really speculate either way
VS - although they were at Horizon and hit by a seeker, it's speculation to say they may have become indoctrinated.  Unless they were specifically hunting Collectors and were exposed, but again little evidence.  That the Collectors targeted Horizon specifically to get them is questionable, as their real goal was Shepard, and what better way than to get a former crew member/possible LI.

To further muddy the water, whoever you took on your missions in ME1, and specifically whoever you took for the final boss fight, may have exposure to everything

Honestly, the most likely would be Shepard - the cybernetics, the Cerberus connection, and Arrival's lost few days - yet that would make the least sense.  After all, Shepard is fighting against the Reapers, right?  (right?  )

Add this one to the list of those who think it would be awful to have some betrayer in Shepard's midst.

Which is why it should be the VS

It Is Belivble, It Clears up a MASIVE plot hole from the previous game, and It Gives them some plot relevence

It's believable only because it's happened to so many other people in the series. It's boring.

I would prefer BW to give the VS better plot relevance than "lulzindoctrinated", thanks.

[greed89]

KainrycKarr wrote...


It's believable only because it's happened to so many other people in the series. It's boring.

I would prefer BW to give the VS better plot relevance than "lulzindoctrinated", thanks.

I Would Perfer there not Be a big Gaping Plot hole in ME2 when it comes to them but we all gotta make sacrafices

Modifié par greed89, 16 juin 2011 - 05:05 .

[Pax of Doom]

greed89 wrote...

Which is why it should be the VS

It Is Belivble, It Clears up a MASIVE plot hole from the previous game, and It Gives them some plot relevence

What plothole?  Unless you mean the terrible dialog (especially if you romanced the VS).

Why & how would they become indoctrinated?  They were not the main focus of the attack: a human colony was.  The Collectors were going for Shepard, but how would they know to use the VS as bait?  They were spared being taken, just like half the colony. 

As for plot relevance, we don't know any of the characters' plot relevance yet.

[greed89]

Pax of Doom wrote...

greed89 wrote...

Which is why it should be the VS

It Is Belivble, It Clears up a MASIVE plot hole from the previous game, and It Gives them some plot relevence

What plothole?  Unless you mean the terrible dialog (especially if you romanced the VS).

Why & how would they become indoctrinated?  They were not the main focus of the attack: a human colony was.  The Collectors were going for Shepard, but how would they know to use the VS as bait?  They were spared being taken, just like half the colony. 

It Was Stated that they attacked the colony because of the VS

the VS got PAralyzed, Lilith who was with them ran  at best 10 feet away from then and gott caught and her vicinty were the first ones loaded up, next time we see her she is Reaper chow.

Why Would the collectors take Every one But the VS , when they already used him or her as bait?  

[Pax of Doom]

KainrycKarr wrote...

It's believable only because it's happened to so many other people in the series. It's boring.

I would prefer BW to give the VS better plot relevance than "lulzindoctrinated", thanks.

Agree completely.  And, to be frank, having an old friend/LI betray you is so bloody tired, especially when "The Reapers  Made Me Do It".

As others have said, there are enough enemies and enough people indoctrinated, including Cerberus.  Ok Cerberus isn't officially indoctrinated (AFAIK, atm), but aligning with the Reapers' cause and tactics makes them effectively indoctrinated - is it still slavery if the slave sold himself willingly?

[Shaun2406]

Personally I'm all for squadmates betraying shephard but i think they should have thier own reasons for it, not 'I was mind controlled/you broke my heart'... And it shouldn't be a 'I'll sell you out to the reapers betrayal', more a 'I'll mess with your plans such that you still defeat the reapers but things wind out working out the way I wanted them to because the way they would've worked out given your plan would be unacceptable to me'...

That way it seems less... Hand wavey

[Pax of Doom]

greed89 wrote...

It Was Stated that they attacked the colony because of the VS

the VS got PAralyzed, Lilith who was with them ran  at best 10 feet away from then and gott caught and her vicinty were the first ones loaded up, next time we see her she is Reaper chow.

Why Would the collectors take Every one But the VS , when they already used him or her as bait? 

First, they took 1/3 of the colonists.  VS and 2/3 were left.

Second, the Collectors were lured there by TIM.  VS was a pawn.  Per the wiki:

The Illusive Man lets slip that he lured the Collectors to the colony
because he was not willing to wait for the Collectors to strike.


The Collectors have made clear, through their attacks on the SSV Normandy
and human colonies — particularly a colony where one of Shepard's
former squadmates was located — that they are after humans in general
and Shepard in particular.

When would they indoctrinate the VS?  Why would they if they could get Shepard?  

Maybe the Reapers play the long game, but the machinations* for any of Shepard's crew to become indoctrinated would make Rube Goldberg's head asplode.

(*edit: spelling)

Modifié par Pax of Doom, 16 juin 2011 - 05:41 .

[greed89]

Pax of Doom wrote...

greed89 wrote...

It Was Stated that they attacked the colony because of the VS

the VS got PAralyzed, Lilith who was with them ran  at best 10 feet away from then and gott caught and her vicinty were the first ones loaded up, next time we see her she is Reaper chow.

Why Would the collectors take Every one But the VS , when they already used him or her as bait? 

First, they took 1/3 of the colonists.  VS and 2/3 were left.

Second, the Collectors were lured there by TIM.  VS was a pawn.  Per the wiki:

The Illusive Man lets slip that he lured the Collectors to the colony
because he was not willing to wait for the Collectors to strike.


The Collectors have made clear, through their attacks on the SSV Normandy
and human colonies — particularly a colony where one of Shepard's
former squadmates was located — that they are after humans in general
and Shepard in particular.

When would they indoctrinate the VS?  Why would they if they could get Shepard?  

Maybe the Reapers play the long game, but the machinations* for any of Shepard's crew to become indoctrinated would make Rube Goldberg's head asplode.

(*edit: spelling)

That 1/3 Was right were the VS was

The reapers are  melinea old Starships we dont ahve to assum they play the long Game we know they doo

indocrinating theVS seems liek a perfect ace in the hole

[KainrycKarr]

greed89 wrote...

Pax of Doom wrote...

greed89 wrote...

It Was Stated that they attacked the colony because of the VS

the VS got PAralyzed, Lilith who was with them ran  at best 10 feet away from then and gott caught and her vicinty were the first ones loaded up, next time we see her she is Reaper chow.

Why Would the collectors take Every one But the VS , when they already used him or her as bait? 

First, they took 1/3 of the colonists.  VS and 2/3 were left.

Second, the Collectors were lured there by TIM.  VS was a pawn.  Per the wiki:

The Illusive Man lets slip that he lured the Collectors to the colony
because he was not willing to wait for the Collectors to strike.


The Collectors have made clear, through their attacks on the SSV Normandy
and human colonies — particularly a colony where one of Shepard's
former squadmates was located — that they are after humans in general
and Shepard in particular.

When would they indoctrinate the VS?  Why would they if they could get Shepard?  

Maybe the Reapers play the long game, but the machinations* for any of Shepard's crew to become indoctrinated would make Rube Goldberg's head asplode.

(*edit: spelling)

That 1/3 Was right were the VS was

The reapers are  melinea old Starships we dont ahve to assum they play the long Game we know they doo

indocrinating theVS seems liek a perfect ace in the hole

Except that it's grossly predictable, which ruins the whole "zomg, what a tweest!" bit.

Besides that...what real purpose would it serve in the story?

"Oh, VS gets indoctrinated? Well...at least they aren't my romance."

Sorry, thus far the only reason to have the VS be indoctrinated is your "plothole" which is pretty debatable.

And there is no good reason(story "twists" that "hit home" don't count, sorry, they just don't.) for any other squadmates to magically betray shepard and get indoctrinated.

[RoninOmega]

No.

Although it would be nice to have it avoidable, but also possible.  Sorry, couldn't think of any as of now though

Modifié par RoninOmega, 16 juin 2011 - 06:04 .

[greed89]

KainrycKarr wrote...

greed89 wrote...

Pax of Doom wrote...

greed89 wrote...

It Was Stated that they attacked the colony because of the VS

the VS got PAralyzed, Lilith who was with them ran  at best 10 feet away from then and gott caught and her vicinty were the first ones loaded up, next time we see her she is Reaper chow.

Why Would the collectors take Every one But the VS , when they already used him or her as bait? 

First, they took 1/3 of the colonists.  VS and 2/3 were left.

Second, the Collectors were lured there by TIM.  VS was a pawn.  Per the wiki:

The Illusive Man lets slip that he lured the Collectors to the colony
because he was not willing to wait for the Collectors to strike.


The Collectors have made clear, through their attacks on the SSV Normandy
and human colonies — particularly a colony where one of Shepard's
former squadmates was located — that they are after humans in general
and Shepard in particular.

When would they indoctrinate the VS?  Why would they if they could get Shepard?  

Maybe the Reapers play the long game, but the machinations* for any of Shepard's crew to become indoctrinated would make Rube Goldberg's head asplode.

(*edit: spelling)

That 1/3 Was right were the VS was

The reapers are  melinea old Starships we dont ahve to assum they play the long Game we know they doo

indocrinating theVS seems liek a perfect ace in the hole

Except that it's grossly predictable, which ruins the whole "zomg, what a tweest!" bit.

Besides that...what real purpose would it serve in the story?

"Oh, VS gets indoctrinated? Well...at least they aren't my romance."

Sorry, thus far the only reason to have the VS be indoctrinated is your "plothole" which is pretty debatable.

And there is no good reason(story "twists" that "hit home" don't count, sorry, they just don't.) for any other squadmates to magically betray shepard and get indoctrinated.

The Purpose would be to have some one in your circle get indoctriante the VS beign some one'sLove intrest has nothing do with it, its solid story telling

Some times Beind Predictible is good cause that means it makes sense.

Modifié par greed89, 16 juin 2011 - 06:11 .

[KainrycKarr]

greed89 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

greed89 wrote...

Pax of Doom wrote...

greed89 wrote...

It Was Stated that they attacked the colony because of the VS

the VS got PAralyzed, Lilith who was with them ran  at best 10 feet away from then and gott caught and her vicinty were the first ones loaded up, next time we see her she is Reaper chow.

Why Would the collectors take Every one But the VS , when they already used him or her as bait? 

First, they took 1/3 of the colonists.  VS and 2/3 were left.

Second, the Collectors were lured there by TIM.  VS was a pawn.  Per the wiki:

The Illusive Man lets slip that he lured the Collectors to the colony
because he was not willing to wait for the Collectors to strike.


The Collectors have made clear, through their attacks on the SSV Normandy
and human colonies — particularly a colony where one of Shepard's
former squadmates was located — that they are after humans in general
and Shepard in particular.

When would they indoctrinate the VS?  Why would they if they could get Shepard?  

Maybe the Reapers play the long game, but the machinations* for any of Shepard's crew to become indoctrinated would make Rube Goldberg's head asplode.

(*edit: spelling)

That 1/3 Was right were the VS was

The reapers are  melinea old Starships we dont ahve to assum they play the long Game we know they doo

indocrinating theVS seems liek a perfect ace in the hole

Except that it's grossly predictable, which ruins the whole "zomg, what a tweest!" bit.

Besides that...what real purpose would it serve in the story?

"Oh, VS gets indoctrinated? Well...at least they aren't my romance."

Sorry, thus far the only reason to have the VS be indoctrinated is your "plothole" which is pretty debatable.

And there is no good reason(story "twists" that "hit home" don't count, sorry, they just don't.) for any other squadmates to magically betray shepard and get indoctrinated.

The Purpose would be to have some one in your circle get indoctriante the VS beign some one'sLove intrest has nothing do with it, its solid story telling

Some times Beind Predictible is ood cause that means it makes sense.

No, it's not. It's lazy and cliche story-telling. lol. It doesn't add anything good other than being a token betrayal/twist.

Why in the world would you want to predict the story?

[greed89]

KainrycKarr wrote...

No, it's not. It's lazy and cliche story-telling. lol. It doesn't add anything good other than being a token betrayal/twist.

Why in the world would you want to predict the story?

There are no Orginal ideas every story is gonna Borrow from some thing or some one else, The MAss effect serise is built ont aking Scifi Tropes and Excuting them so well there Fresh

Like i said befor Predictble isnt Default bad, Its all about excution and the fact that it Makes sense

in this case it would be a Waste of a Good Plot and Bad writing To Leave that Blatant Plot hole open,  when you have  a logical potentaily Exciting way to fill it

[Kaiser Shepard]

As I see it, Liara and Virmire Survivor are most likely to 'turn on' Shepard, although not through indoctrination. My first reason for this being that they are ensured to survive throughout the series, the second that they seem to be shifting toward opposite ends of the morality spectrum: I see Kaishley as willing to turn on Shepard should they do something that's too Renegade for their tastes, whereas I can see our little new Shadow Broker being forced into doing something ruthless on her own.

[Pax of Doom]

greed89 wrote...
The Purpose would be to have some one in your circle get indoctriante the VS beign some one'sLove intrest has nothing do with it, its solid story telling

Some times Beind Predictible is good cause that means it makes sense.

I want to play poker with you some time.  We'll see how good being predictable is.  

I still think VS is a red herring.  My brain keeps coming back to TIM tipping off the Collectors.  He knows the VS is on Horizon - that's the lure for Shepard.  Remember at that point Shepard is still recruiting people, and probably wants "the old team back together". 

The Collectors don't know this, however.  They do know they want humans, and Shepard in particular.  They also know that VS served with Shepard in the past.  They don't know Shepard's intentions, except for a vague "kill them all" attitude towards themselves and Reapers. 

I do wonder if the Collectors knew of other companions to Shepard, and how relatively easy access to them was.  Liara & Tali, both civilians, would have been easier to get to than VS.  Liara was especially accessable as an information broker.

We could debate it until ME3 is released.  But it's past my bedtime.  Fun debate Greed.