53 réponses à ce sujet

[Bugsie]

I love it when people pull statistics out of their ass. There's lies, damned lies and then there is statistics, more appropriately, lies, damned lies and statistics made up by BSN forumites.

[wilhelm Screamer]

Way to open the ultimate can of worms OP...

[GuardianAngel470]

Buggirl70 wrote...

I love it when people pull statistics out of their ass. There's lies, damned lies and then there is statistics, more appropriately, lies, damned lies and statistics made up by BSN forumites.

I was thinking something similar. Threads like these remind me of that age old question: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

I've seen two types of insults in this thread so far. The first one is against a fictional character, the second, and more common, is against real live people (ie said character's fanbase).

So which came first, the disrespectful fanbase or the insults? As I don't have a time machine, I can't find out. 

I will say that I see far fewer instances of Tali fans lashing out than I do other fans insulting them. "I don't really care about the character but the fanbase makes me dislike her." "I used to like Tali until I saw her fanbase." "Be careful or the Talimancers will troll you." "Those Talimancers are real freaks."

As best as I can tell, the worst offenders are the rest of the forums unless someone can conveniently show me enough instances of Talimancer evildoing. 

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Buggirl70 wrote...

I love it when people pull statistics out of their ass. There's lies, damned lies and then there is statistics, more appropriately, lies, damned lies and statistics made up by BSN forumites.

[Made Nightwing]

http://www.fanfictio.../1/The_Decision

^Exhibit A of why the Tali fanbase comes under attack all the time. Glorification of the Tali/Shep romance as being superior to all others, mindless bashing of the other characters (Ash and Miranda cop the brunt of the hate)

Now I know that most Tali fans aren't like this, but it doesn't help when the crazies draw more attention to themselves than the moderates.

[kglaser]

Oh, goody!  THIS thread!

Gosh, I've got an even better idea...let's make up a separate one for each of the other 16 potential squadmates thus far!  THAT'LL end well.  What say you all?

<_<

[Reptilian Rob]

I don't find her annoying, just "meh". Still like her character a bit though.

And seriously, not this thread again.

[kglaser]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

And seriously, not this thread again.

+ 6.02 x 10^23.

[Bugsie]

Arcian wrote...
*snip trollish overreacting*

I can tolerate people not liking my faves - Garrus, Tali and Miranda cop a lot of flak from people who have nothing better to do than troll their fanbases, but like the usual trollish haters your post is pretty much lacking in substance and full of the usual wah wah wah Talimancer this, wah wah wah Talimancer that. 

Go get some fresh air Arcian, you're becoming painful.

Oh and what Rob and kg said +1000

[DoNotIngest]

Buggirl70 wrote...

Arcian wrote...
*snip trollish overreacting*

I can tolerate people not liking my faves - Garrus, Tali and Miranda cop a lot of flak from people who have nothing better to do than troll their fanbases, but like the usual trollish haters your post is pretty much lacking in substance and full of the usual wah wah wah Talimancer this, wah wah wah Talimancer that. 

Go get some fresh air Arcian, you're becoming painful.

Oh and what Rob and kg said +1000

S'alright, he was trying to troll the ME3 Tali thread earlier today 'til Jav told him to GTFO

[JeanLuc761]

Arcian wrote...
The problem is that Talimancers overreact like crazy to the most minor of slights. Not everyone, mind you, but definitely a noticable part of the fandom (otherwise you wouldn't have this problem). As a detractor, you can't criticize Tali for having character flaws without some fervent fan reporting you 150 million times for "trolling" or "flaming". That's not how freedom of speech works. You can't silence people who wants to criticize the character for being written poorly or in an unbelievable way in their opinion, on a forum and in a thread specifically created to discuss said character.

For example, when people complain about my own favorite character, Garrus, I don't react by reporting them or telling them to bugger off. I ask why, and if they care to explain, I simply say, "Yeah okay, that's your opinion and I respect it." Someone else disliking my favorite character isn't going to sour his good qualities or his character depth. The same way, if you think Tali is a well-written and believable character, fine. That's your opinion, and no one can take it from you. However, don't go berserk and declare war on all non-Talimancers because someone happens to disagree with you and is willing to be vocal about it. It's their right on a forum, of all places.

Another thing I can imagine people getting worked up over is Talimancers and their... seemingly shallow attitude towards the character. I'm thinking of the "dem hips"-thing and the common fanart depictions of her like some kind of space-elf, with every alternative and more alien design being rejected or decried with threats of not buying ME3 if she isn't the hyperbeautiful space-elf they made her out to be. If nothing else, it seems sexist, as if her hips and appearance are the only worthwhile aspects of her character to some people. Now, I haven't spent nearly enough time in the Tali threads to discern if you actually probe the deeper aspects of her character (no pun intended, you naughty, naughty people) or not (I'm guessing that you do, because it would be a feat worthy of titans to churn out a thread of 5000 pages filled solely with sexist remarks and shallow opinions on her looks. But then again, I've been wrong before...)

Anyway, to get to my point, Talimancers are never going to catch a break until they can start tolerating the fact that people don't like their character and that said people WILL be vocal about it. This overzealous defense of her character is what people are getting riled up over (and that's what the actual trolls and flamers are feeding on, to make matters worse).

In my experience, ALL of the characters have over-zealous fans that will overreact to a percieved slight.  Seeing as Tali is one of the more popular characters, it makes sense that there would be a proportionately higher number of overzealous fans.  It is important to always, ALWAYS remember that the "crazy" fans are an extreme minority and avoid judging the entire fanbase because of the misguided actions of certain individuals.  

Beyond that though, you appear to be blaming the Talimancers themselves for this whole problem without having the other side accept any responsibility for these problems.  Like it or not, the problem goes both ways.  On the one hand, we have over-enthusastic Tali fans who take their character appreciation to an extreme.  On the other hand, we have disgruntled forum members who are more or less fed up with the character love, even if they themselves like the character.  Lately, I've noticed far, far more threads against Tali and her fans than I've seen in support of her.  That's where the current problem lies. 

From the majority of the Tali fans I've talked to and "observed," most are perfectly willing to just let this whole thing drop, but people on the forum refuse to let this go and continually "attack" (for want of a better word) her character and her fanbase for no apparent reason other than it being the cool thing to do.  Now, I'm not saying that people don't have valid arguments against her character; she's certainly not perfect.  What I do find unsettling is how we have threads like this with no real substance, and it becomes virtually flooded with people jumping on the bandwagon.

One of the most tiresome phrases I see continually is "I used to like her, but her fanbase destroyed the character for me."  This is, and has always been, a ****ty argument.  Why would you EVER let the opinion of a few extremists completely destroy your own opinion of the character?  

Also, to answer your unasked question: The Tali thread is almost full to bursting with insights into the deeper aspects of her character.  Yeah, there's the occasional shallow post but I can find that in every character thread, without exception. 

To quote Shepard himself in regards to Tali and Legion's conflict, "Sooner or later you're both going to have to stop fighting this war."  Why can't we do the same here?  Why can't people just let the issue drop and stop rattling the bars in the hopes that the Tali fans will come out and do something stupid?

[True Zarken]

JeanLuc761 wrote...
In my experience, ALL of the characters
have over-zealous fans that will overreact to a percieved slight. 
Seeing as Tali is one of the more popular characters, it makes sense
that there would be a proportionately higher number of overzealous
fans.  It is important to always, ALWAYS remember that the "crazy" fans
are an extreme minority and avoid judging the entire fanbase because of
the misguided actions of certain individuals.  

Beyond that
though, you appear to be blaming the Talimancers themselves for this
whole problem without having the other side accept any responsibility
for these problems.  Like it or not, the problem goes both ways.  On the
one hand, we have over-enthusastic Tali fans who take their character
appreciation to an extreme.  On the other hand, we have disgruntled
forum members who are more or less fed up with the character love, even
if they themselves like the character.  Lately, I've noticed far, far
more threads against Tali and her fans than I've seen in support of
her.  That's where the current problem lies. 

From the majority
of the Tali fans I've talked to and "observed," most are perfectly
willing to just let this whole thing drop, but people on the forum
refuse to let this go and continually "attack" (for want of a better
word) her character and her fanbase for no apparent reason other than it
being the cool thing to do.  Now, I'm not saying that people don't have
valid arguments against her character; she's certainly not perfect. 
What I do find unsettling is how we have threads like this with no real
substance, and it becomes virtually flooded with people jumping on the
bandwagon.

One of the most tiresome phrases I see continually is
"I used to like her, but her fanbase destroyed the character for me." 
This is, and has always been, a ****ty argument.  Why would you EVER let
the opinion of a few extremists completely destroy your own opinion of
the character?  

Also, to answer your unasked question: The Tali
thread is almost full to bursting with insights into the deeper aspects
of her character.  Yeah, there's the occasional shallow post but I can
find that in every character thread, without exception. 

To
quote Shepard himself in regards to Tali and Legion's conflict, "Sooner
or later you're both going to have to stop fighting this war."  Why
can't we do the same here?  Why can't people just let the issue drop and
stop rattling the bars in the hopes that the Tali fans will come out
and do something stupid?

^That! A millions time that! Very well said JeanLuc.

Modifié par True Zarken, 16 juin 2011 - 02:57 .

[kglaser]

JeanLuc761 wrote...
One of the most tiresome phrases I see continually is "I used to like her, but her fanbase destroyed the character for me."  This is, and has always been, a ****ty argument.  Why would you EVER let the opinion of a few extremists completely destroy your own opinion of the character?

Word.  This is just childish.
I would be lying if I said I'd never been tempted by such childish thoughts (although not about this character), but I'm a human being; I feel all kinds of things.
I thought my human thoughts and then continued on rationally.

edit:  and Shadow, that's quite a blanket statement.  Have you personally read comments from ALL her fans?

Modifié par kglaser, 16 juin 2011 - 03:07 .

[Rip504]

I do find some characters can (at times) be slightly annoying. As I represent in some of my playthroughs.!.







But what do they all have in common? Ah yes Tali!

[Inspectre]

Chrissages wrote...

I would rage on you about how amazing I think Tali is but, I will keep myself composed in a calm manner and....
SHES NOT A TRAITOR YOU BOSHTET!
SHE WOULD NEVER BETRAY ANYONE!

She would betray Shep in a heartbeat if it meant the annihilation of the geth.

kglaser wrote...

edit:  and Shadow, that's quite a blanket statement.  Have you personally read comments from ALL her fans?

You could assume he meant most of them.

JeanLuc761 wrote...

One of the most tiresome phrases I see
continually is "I used to like her, but her fanbase destroyed the
character for me."  This is, and has always been, a ****ty argument. 
Why would you EVER let the opinion of a few extremists completely
destroy your own opinion of the character? 

Very interesting that you brought this up, because I'm affected by this phenomenon constantly. 

For instance, I couldn't play ME2 for months because I kept seeing manshep
where my femshep was.  I have only 1 character and her existence is
fragile.  Not because I want to play as manshep(god, not because of
that)  but because of his fans and the developers constant shoving down
my throat with "SHEPLOO THIS/SHEPLOO THAT" bs.

I don't know how else to say it.  I'm not exactly influencable, as you
may have noticed I have very strong opinions, it's just... weakness? 
What ever it is, I have it.


... btw, thanks for your graphics mods.

Rip504 wrote...
But what do they all have in common? Ah yes Tali!

She's the only one who died on my first play through.  An accident really, forgot to renagade her to loyalty.

Modifié par Dragon XIX, 16 juin 2011 - 04:42 .

[kglaser]

Rip504 wrote...

I do find some characters can (at times) be slightly annoying. As I represent in some of my playthroughs.!.

But what do they all have in common? Ah yes Tali!

I have found all characters annoying to some extent at times.  Including Tali.

[Bugsie]

Play the game enough times, yes, they can all be annoying.

That's when you go play something else. Well, that's what I do.

[kglaser]

Buggirl70 wrote...

Play the game enough times, yes, they can all be annoying.

That's when you go play something else. Well, that's what I do.

You mean it's just a game?  And I should go play something else??

...I approve.

[mineralica]

Tali isn't annoying. Most of my Shepard disagree with her views on geth/quarian conflict - however, they all see the reasons of her actions and really think nearly with the same dedication when it comes to humans/batarians conflict.
Now to mancers/haters. Maybe mancers wouldn't become that defensive if they wouldn't be constantly attacked? You know, when 9 posts from 10 are "no way this character will be in my ME3" and "Tali headshot 3.0/4.0", even if the tenth will be almost innocent "I think she's a bit young" it will be considered as offensive - because the entire mass of posts are offensive and you expect the continuation of bashing. Plus, being constantly trolled isn't add mental health - I, for example, am not the best person after reading discussion about "All fans of Miranda are teenage boys who didn't see bewbs IRL"

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

I post on the Tali thread a lot. And I can assure you that almost everyone who posts there defy the stereotype that everyone is inflicting on them. Yeah, the old thread was a bit crazy. But you get that with any fanbase.
Of course Talimancers report a troll. Because you report trolls rather than engaging in a flame war. They get trolled all the time, so it is far better than getting the Tali thread locked because of some stupid argument.

[J4N3_M3]

Buggirl70 wrote...

Play the game enough times, yes, they can all be annoying.

That's when you go play something else. Well, that's what I do.

what do you mean 'something else'? There are other games? Why did no one ever tell me????

And since it seems to be required nowadays, I'll even include a /sarcasm - tag

BTW: I'm a Tali-mancer too....now, what does this say about the fanbase? Oh wait, I forgot, my name is Bob, I am a 40 year old, bald, overweight boy who lives in my mum's basement....forget I asked.... xD 

Modifié par J4N3_M3, 16 juin 2011 - 06:29 .

[CroGamer002]

Mesina2 wrote...