612 réponses à ce sujet

[Babli]

First thing first, I dont want to sound rude or something. Some people might find these words provoking but thats not my intention. I just want to point out something, thats after the story the most important aspect of game for me. Keep it civilised everyone.

Yes, I am gonna talk about squadmate outfits, namely Ashleys one.

I recently wrote to Christina Norman on twitter who(despite being lead gameplay designer) seems to know about squadmate appearance everything this:

Babli04
@truffle So despite her exposed skin she will wear helmet
when in space and not breather mask?What about realism? Was it ditched
completely?

And her answer was this:
truffle
@Babli04 Shepard and crew generally dont go into space

truffle
@Babli04 I mean obviously they travel through space, but they dont spacewalk

And before she said this:


truffle
Christina Norman
I am less impressed by
arguments about how they must where this, or must where that, I respect
the artistic vision of our artists

So, obviously its not up to her to change these things, I know. But she was nice enough to respond to me. Now to the point of this thread,

I never made secret of my preference of ME 1 before ME 2. First ME established lore and everything. Everyone who was going to fight was wearing armor and when in space and hazardous enviroments, also helmets. It made sense, it was realistic and it was awesome. It really felt like something that could happen in future (you know how I mean it, dont nitpick on this one).

But then Mass Effect 2 came and all of this was gone. Squadmates wear high heels, impractical outfits that couldnt protect them in fight, they had exposed skin in space and hazardous enviroments and so on, so on. In the end, only some squadmates had helmets and full armor and some breather masks and...definitely not armor. It was immersion-breaking for me. I ended up using only Garrus and Tali because of this. In the end, it didnt have that great sci-fi feeling of ME 1 and it made me like the game far...far less.

And why was that? Why that change? Yes, new artistic vision. Same argument was used when everyone was asking why we cant remove helmet from DLC armors. Because of artistic vision.

And now is Ashley wearing outfit with exposed skin and from answer of Christina Norman and some of Casey Hudsons on his twitter, it seems that she will wear also breather mask.

This is deal-breaker for me, Bioware. But there is one simple solution, make two types of outfit for every squadmate. One practical and realistic and one of these...skin exposing ones. And give player the choice to attached either helmet or breather mask. RPGs are about choices right? It would make for a much better game for everyone.

Modifié par Babli, 12 juin 2011 - 07:53 .

[marshalleck]

why are you harassing the lead gameplay designer over an art direction issue

also wasn't there already an ashley thread, I don't think this needed its own

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 juin 2011 - 07:55 .

[Warkupo]

Welcome to video games?

Just be glad she's not in a metal bikini.

[Leonia]

I'm going to be an arse and say.. deal with it. The Lead Designer will design the game in the way she sees fit. Ya'll should be grateful that she responds to tweets at all, honestly.

Am I happy about all of the changes? No. But it's the developer's right to do as they want with THEIR game.

And really, you ask the gameplay designer a non-gameplay question and expected a gameplay-only related response? What.

Modifié par leonia42, 12 juin 2011 - 08:00 .

[Whatever42]

Did you know that when seven-of-nine was introduced to ST:Voyager, that the series ratings shot up?

Yeah, they sexed up the series. Yes, it was a little silly in places. However, for the vast majority of players this was not a big deal

[Babli]

Forums are here to express our opinions and thoughts on game, so I dont see the problem.

And I was asking her because she obviously knows about this stuff. This thread however is pointed to whole Bioware team, especially their artists.

Modifié par Babli, 12 juin 2011 - 08:02 .

[zeoduos]

I understand your need for immersion, but their outfits are such a small part of that immersion experience you are seeking imo. I think you're letting such a trivial matter overshadow the great and more important aspects of the series.

[CrimsonNephilim]

I'll admit, in ME2 I found that having squad members use masks over a full protective suit in space or environments that obviously was hazardous was a bit odd but don't really see it being something that is a big deal.

In comparison to the game as a whole and the storyline, its a pretty small detail.

[SilentNukee]

Sex sales, that's all there is to it. Don't be harassing Christina, she's a gameplay designer as you said, not an artist.

[shepskisaac]

Warkupo wrote...

Welcome to video games?

Just be glad she's not in a metal bikini.

Pretty much /thread

[XFemShepX]

OP, though I don't feel as strongly about it as you obviously do, I agree with you.

I understood Miranda as the over-sexualized character, being the "perfect" woman and all that. But that is not the archetype that Ashley was --in fact, Ashley made FUN of those types of women in the original Mass Effect, so.

I dunno. I think it's stupid.

[Ryzaki]

...the ridiculousness of bothering the gameplay designer about character designs.

It would make more sense to bother Chud about that.

[Leonia]

I'll also suggest we haven't seen enough of Ashley yet to judge her. Christina Norman also hinted that armour will function differently in another tweet. For all we know, there probably are multiple outfits.

[FluffyScarf]

Ash let her hair down. Should they make her obese as opposed to attractive? How about giving her armor so square you wouldn't be able to tell what was underneath? Might as well make the males obese while you're at it. Can't have them looking lean and muscular otherwise we'll be objectifying men and selling them as sex objects too. Two topics guranteed to get 50 pages worth of responses: Religion and women in games.

Modifié par FluffyScarf, 12 juin 2011 - 08:07 .

[Gatt9]

Babli wrote...

But then Mass Effect 2 came and all of this was gone. Squadmates wear high heels, impractical outfits that couldnt protect them in fight, they had exposed skin in space and hazardous enviroments and so on, so on. In the end, only some squadmates had helmets and full armor and some breather masks and...definitely not armor. It was immersion-breaking for me. I ended up using only Garrus and Tali because of this. In the end, it didnt have that great sci-fi feeling of ME 1 and it made me like the game far...far less.

And why was that? Why that change? Yes, new artistic vision. Same argument was used when everyone was asking why we cant remove helmet from DLC armors. Because of artistic vision.

It's not a "New artistic vision",  it's plain to see the reasoning behind it.  Make every male look as bad*** as possible,  no matter how unrealistic or outright ridiculous the look is for fighting or hostile environments,  make them appear that way at all times.  Females must show as much skin as humanly possible,  or have proportions that would give Barbie an eating disorder.

It's all for the marketing,  nothing more.  That's all Bioware is at this point,  a Marketing driven buzzword developer,  latching onto the latest big fads and hoping their art department can prey on teenagers hormones,  apparently missing the fact that the average gamer's age has been in the 30's for like 10 years now.

[FluffyScarf]

Yup, 30 year old men aren't interested in pretty ladies. They're all into numbers and sorting through dead bodies.

[GodWood]

I agree with the OP.
ME1 was very much a believable Sci-Fi that went out of its way to portray itself in a realistic manner, even going to the extent of creating a detailed in-game codex giving scientific explanations for all its lore.

Unfortunately most of the writers responsible for that have left and instead we are left with this team who prefer to take a 'Rule of Cool' approach or as they're dubbing it "their artistic vision".

Personally I hate it.

marshalleck wrote...
why are you harassing the lead gameplay designer over an art direction issue

To be fair he's not harassing her, it's just that she's the only one who has spoken up on the issue and frankly a lot don't like what she said.

also wasn't there already an ashley thread, I don't think this needed its own

It got locked because someone bad mouthed a Dev.

The cat-suit hate must continue.

[marshalleck]

Warkupo wrote...

Welcome to video games?

Just be glad she's not in a metal bikini.

I'm not sure this is actually useful. I mean, if we want games to attain higher standards and achieve the same level of respect and regard as say film for example, we as consumers need to hold developers to them, not simply accept whatever they do and say "well at least it's not worse."

That said, chasing the lead gameplay designer over art issues is seriously barking up the wrong tree and people need to back off Christina Norman's twitter page. If you really must, take it to Casey Hudson's

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 juin 2011 - 08:14 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

I agree with the OP. In SF you cannot be too critical about realism, but science is also part of the term SF and therefor I think it is not too much to ask for the illusion of realism.

[FluffyScarf]

ME1? Believable? Detailed? Scientific explanations? Remove those glasses.

[DocLasty]

"Females must show as much skin as humanly possible,"

When Ashely comes out wearing a battle bikini, then you might have a point. Until then, no. I'm not a fan of the catsuit, but it's a small thing, and extremely modest when compared to the vast majority of thing women wear in videogames. As long as Ashe's character is in tact, I'm fine.

[GodWood]

Montezuma IV wrote...
I'm starting to think some of you want all the females to start dressing like Rose O'donnell in video-games....

FluffyScarf wrote...
Ash let her hair down. Should they make her obese as opposed to attractive? How about giving her armor so square you wouldn't be able to tell what was underneath? Might as well make the males obese while you're at it. Can't have them looking lean and muscular otherwise we'll be objectifying men and selling them as sex objects too. Two topics guranteed to get 50 pages worth of responses: Religion and women in games.

Wanting female characters to be appropriately armoured and not just pointlessly sexualized = wanting them all to be fat and ugly?


I seriously don't understand why this is such a hard concept for people to grasp.