612 réponses à ce sujet

[sissysouthpaw]

lovgreno wrote...

It could all be so simple:

One optional "lol boobs in hawt revealing superhero tights" type of what some would call armour fitting for a professional frontline veteran soldier. If catsuits for female warriors sounds logical to you this is the armour for you!

The other optional armour is something that look like a decent suit of heavy armour that can protect against things like high speed bullets, radiation, toxins etc... If you think that heavy and covering armour looks badass, sexy and professional this is the option for you!

It shouldn't take too much effort right? And as a bonus you can make missions taking place in vacuum as everyone has a optional outfit suited for those hostile enviroments.

This. Oh, so much of this. But apparently it compromises ~*~the artistic vision~*~.

[CroGamer002]

Warkupo wrote...

I don't remember him being forced to wear light armor either. It's kind of like they retconned the whole armor-class thing out of existence for a whole game and you're only just now noticing.

Biotics can use both light and medium armor.

Shepard never wares heavy armor in ME2.

(By the way, Ashley has always been able to wear light armor. In fact, she's more likely to be wearing light/medium armor than she is Heavy Armor, since she has to take optional training to get into that. She even starts out in light armor.)

I didn't said she CAN'T wear it but she PREFERS wearing heavy armor while Kaidan CAN'T wear one since he's a Biotic and wearing heavy armor is counter productive.



Also train to wear light armor but know to wear heavy armor?
What is this, Oblivion?

[slimgrin]

Warkupo wrote...

Welcome to video games?

Just be glad she's not in a metal bikini.

Lol. This is true. Casual outfits for the crew would be nice, but I can understand that's not a priority.

[FluffyScarf]

Those are fancy quotes. What's wrong with " "? Or does that compromise ~*~artistic vision~*~?

And female enemies wear non revealing, suitable armor. Is artistic vision compromised there as well?

Modifié par FluffyScarf, 12 juin 2011 - 12:42 .

[sissysouthpaw]

LetMeW1n wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

LetMeW1n wrote...
Immersion? Use your imagination.. You bought the game, don't beat yourself up over something that's supposed to be entertainment. Btw you can show skin in space, and I imagine that bodysuit and her biotics helps in countering the air pressure in the lungs.. Might be uncomfortable though, but for vanity..? Then there's radiation, environmental toxins and sh!t not. o_o

Anyway I think it does give a tad of individuality once you look pass all this. Respect for the fearless ladies, bia ch

Games aren't just entertainment, but also an art.
Mass Effect should be good with both and with doing stereotypical outfits that are against already set up characters is failing and they don't even have to.

Also it's really hard to use imagination when in combat. Even though it's easier for Bioware to give Ashely heavy armor and to Kaidan light one.

Not convinced, lol. Mainly because I'm an observer and I've seen much stronger arguments for and against this thing here and I'm basically useless.

But, err, art is subjective, yes..? You can see it in a good or bad way, or you can dismiss it. Maybe fell slightly into gaming conventions, but not everything has to be what you want it to or not to be. Anyway immersion's not the only way to enjoy a game. This is the work of
minds, created using tools the product of minds and for minds. So open up your minds.. Can this be considered trolling btw? I'm making an argument, right..?

You are trying to have a discussion. Like an adult. Without insulting anyone or telling them to shut up. See, people, it can be done.

[billywaffles]

Babli wrote...

First thing first, I dont want to sound rude or something. Some people might find these words provoking but thats not my intention. I just want to point out something, thats after the story the most important aspect of game for me. Keep it civilised everyone.

Yes, I am gonna talk about squadmate outfits, namely Ashleys one.

I recently wrote to Christina Norman on twitter who(despite being lead gameplay designer) seems to know about squadmate appearance everything this:

Babli04
@truffle So despite her exposed skin she will wear helmet
when in space and not breather mask?What about realism? Was it ditched
completely?

And her answer was this:
truffle
@Babli04 Shepard and crew generally dont go into space

truffle
@Babli04 I mean obviously they travel through space, but they dont spacewalk

And before she said this:


truffle
Christina Norman
I am less impressed by
arguments about how they must where this, or must where that, I respect
the artistic vision of our artists

So, obviously its not up to her to change these things, I know. But she was nice enough to respond to me. Now to the point of this thread,

I never made secret of my preference of ME 1 before ME 2. First ME established lore and everything. Everyone who was going to fight was wearing armor and when in space and hazardous enviroments, also helmets. It made sense, it was realistic and it was awesome. It really felt like something that could happen in future (you know how I mean it, dont nitpick on this one).

But then Mass Effect 2 came and all of this was gone. Squadmates wear high heels, impractical outfits that couldnt protect them in fight, they had exposed skin in space and hazardous enviroments and so on, so on. In the end, only some squadmates had helmets and full armor and some breather masks and...definitely not armor. It was immersion-breaking for me. I ended up using only Garrus and Tali because of this. In the end, it didnt have that great sci-fi feeling of ME 1 and it made me like the game far...far less.

And why was that? Why that change? Yes, new artistic vision. Same argument was used when everyone was asking why we cant remove helmet from DLC armors. Because of artistic vision.

And now is Ashley wearing outfit with exposed skin and from answer of Christina Norman and some of Casey Hudsons on his twitter, it seems that she will wear also breather mask.

This is deal-breaker for me, Bioware. But there is one simple solution, make two types of outfit for every squadmate. One practical and realistic and one of these...skin exposing ones. And give player the choice to attached either helmet or breather mask. RPGs are about choices right? It would make for a much better game for everyone.

100% agree. But the truth is that some people just don't want armor in the squadmates and just want ridiculous outfits. As a matter of fact, half the squad wear armor and the other half wear loincloths.

[sissysouthpaw]

FluffyScarf wrote...

Those are fancy quotes. What's wrong with " "? Or does that compromise ~*~artistic vision~*~?

They are super-special quotes, because... yes, you said it!

[Warkupo]

Mesina2 wrote...

Warkupo wrote...

I don't remember him being forced to wear light armor either. It's kind of like they retconned the whole armor-class thing out of existence for a whole game and you're only just now noticing.

Biotics can use both light and medium armor.

Shepard never wares heavy armor in ME2.

(By the way, Ashley has always been able to wear light armor. In fact, she's more likely to be wearing light/medium armor than she is Heavy Armor, since she has to take optional training to get into that. She even starts out in light armor.)

I didn't said she CAN'T wear it but she PREFERS wearing heavy armor while Kaidan CAN'T wear one since he's a Biotic and wearing heavy armor is counter productive.



Also train to wear light armor but know to wear heavy armor?
What is this, Oblivion?

How can she prefer to wear heavy armor if she never learns how to use it? If she really prefers heavy armor then why isn't she WEARING it when you first encounter her? 

Shepard never wears light armor in ME2 either. Because there is no such thing as light, medium, or heavy armor anymore. He just wears armor. 


Also, you remember a few pages ago how you expressed dissapointment at Miranda because you needed a DLC to get her in "heavy" armor? 

Miranda is a Biotic. 

I just thought you should know. 

[sissysouthpaw]

FluffyScarf wrote...


And female enemies wear non revealing, suitable armor. Is artistic vision compromised there as well?

Oh, just you wait. Female enemies in ME3 are wearing painted-on string bikinis.

[Sylvianus]

Hattie wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Em23 wrote...

Kaidan: "Those Asari commandos are impressive. Lightly armored, but their speed more than makes up for it."

Ashley: "Unless that speed lets them outrun bullets, I’m more inclined to stick with nice solid armor and a big gun."

Thank you.

This says it all.
Ashley would never wear a catsuit to a fight. What the hell bioware?!

lol. So a single phrase describes everything that can be or can't be a character. You are so few imaginative, limited and focused on a small script. Ashley's character is not defined in one line.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 12 juin 2011 - 12:46 .

[CroGamer002]

LetMeW1n wrote...

Not convinced, lol. Mainly because I'm an observer and I've seen much stronger arguments for and against this thing here and I'm basically useless.

Check Extra Credits for that.
I'm not here to argue about that.

But, err, art is subjective, yes..? You can see it in a good or bad way, or you can dismiss it. Maybe fell slightly into gaming conventions, but not everything has to be what you want it to or not to be. Anyway immersion's not the only way to enjoy a game. This is the work of minds, created using tools the product of minds and for minds.

True, but that still doesn't change that what Bioware is doing is bad thing. It's arleady been said that Ashley prefers heavy armor while Kaidan is Biotic and that was established too that they get tired fast.

It doesn't brake the game by any means but it's still inconsistent.

Inconsistency=bad

So open up your minds.. Can this be considered trolling btw? I'm making an argument, right..?

When did I call you a troll?

[FluffyScarf]

Painted on? I'm having visions of Borat and that famous pink outfit. Would look alright on Ash...

Modifié par FluffyScarf, 12 juin 2011 - 12:49 .

[sissysouthpaw]

FluffyScarf wrote...

Oh you. I wasn't serious over that.The chocolate bar bit I mean. I hope you find it in your heart to forgive me.

What?! You mean you promised me a chocolate bar without any intentions of granting me one! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE! *shakes fist*

[littlezack]

There's also the possibility that some of us just don't give a damn. Did Miranda's outfit bother me a little bit in ME2? Yeah. Did the spacebreathers bother me? Yeah. Do I wish Ashely was wearing heavy armor? Yeah.

Deal-breaking, though? No. ME2 was awesome on so many levels that such a minor thing wasn't close to being a problem for me, and I'm sure ME3 will continue that trend. Ashely's appearance is but a small fraction of the reason I loved her character before; as long as she's the strong, indepedent, capable woman she was before, she can wear just about anything she wants and still kick ass. 

[Sailears]

Babli wrote...
But there is one simple solution, make two types of outfit for every squadmate. One practical and realistic and one of these...skin exposing ones. And give player the choice to attached either helmet or breather mask.

I support something along those lines.
Just an alternate appearence with helmet and closed suit would do nicely.

[MegaBadExample]

Liisi wrote...

FluffyScarf wrote...


And female enemies wear non revealing, suitable armor. Is artistic vision compromised there as well?

Oh, just you wait. Female enemies in ME3 are wearing painted-on string bikinis.

 It's not that bad. Stop acting like it's the end of the world and get over it. Geez.

[Hattie]

Sylvianus wrote...

Hattie wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Em23 wrote...

Kaidan: "Those Asari commandos are impressive. Lightly armored, but their speed more than makes up for it."

Ashley: "Unless that speed lets them outrun bullets, I’m more inclined to stick with nice solid armor and a big gun."

Thank you.

This says it all.
Ashley would never wear a catsuit to a fight. What the hell bioware?!

lol. So a single phrase describes everything that can be or can't be a character. You are so few imaginative, limited and focused on a small script. Ashley's character is not defined in one line.

Actually, I find it very aptly sums up this aspect of her character.
There is more to her than this, obviously, but that is not relevent here. 

[sissysouthpaw]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Liisi wrote...

FluffyScarf wrote...


And female enemies wear non revealing, suitable armor. Is artistic vision compromised there as well?

Oh, just you wait. Female enemies in ME3 are wearing painted-on string bikinis.

 It's not that bad. Stop acting like it's the end of the world and get over it. Geez.

Why so serious? Geez.

[FluffyScarf]

Liisi isn't acting like its the end of the world. It's the end for Ash though.

Modifié par FluffyScarf, 12 juin 2011 - 12:52 .

[sissysouthpaw]

FluffyScarf wrote...

Liisi isn't acting like its the end of the world. It's the end for Ash though.

OH SNAP

[TornadoADV]

FluffyScarf wrote...

Then explain without using the Wiki how they work. Only with the Codex. I'm led to believe that everything was fleshed out and elaborated on perfectly in ME1. So perfectly, that ME2 somehow ruined it.

Explained right there in the Kinetic Barrier codex entry in ME1. They only react to quick moving objects striking the barrier such as bullets and debris/shrapnel from explosions, not slow moving objects such as air. Hence the wearer can sit on a chair without knocking it away, but is also poorly protected from the elements and hard vacuum without a hard suit.

[CroGamer002]

Warkupo wrote...

How can she prefer to wear heavy armor if she never learns how to use it? If she really prefers heavy armor then why isn't she WEARING it when you first encounter her?

Did you ever played Mass Effect 1?

Shepard never wears light armor in ME2 either. Because there is no such thing as light, medium, or heavy armor anymore. He just wears armor.

No, he/she does wear either light or medium armor.

Also Grunt and Garrus wear heavy armor while Tali and Liara wear light armor.

Also, you remember a few pages ago how you expressed dissapointment at Miranda because you needed a DLC to get her in "heavy" armor? 

Miranda is a Biotic.

I just thought you should know. 

I said armor, not heavy armor.

Also Miranda is wearing medium armor while Liara light one.

What Ashley is wearing isn't even an armor, it's catsuit without heels.

[Antivenger]

Hattie wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Hattie wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Em23 wrote...

Kaidan: "Those Asari commandos are impressive. Lightly armored, but their speed more than makes up for it."

Ashley: "Unless that speed lets them outrun bullets, I’m more inclined to stick with nice solid armor and a big gun."

Thank you.

This says it all.
Ashley would never wear a catsuit to a fight. What the hell bioware?!

lol. So a single phrase describes everything that can be or can't be a character. You are so few imaginative, limited and focused on a small script. Ashley's character is not defined in one line.

Actually, I find it very aptly sums up this aspect of her character.
There is more to her than this, obviously, but that is not relevent here. 

Although I would have preferred heavy armour, her new outfit looks solid enough.

[M3cHr3p71l]

@Fluffy LOL hahaha. have you seen Avatar? In any way, that's beside the point.

Bioware have forgotten the ME plot and choose hot catsuits for ME3 advertisement for the only female squadie who had a combat armor. Hot females are very important to get new male consumers (however, precisely lots of them don't like it) although that degenerates ME saga.

[syllogi]

Christina Norman was defending her co-workers, and she's unable to do anything about art assets, even if she didn't like Ashley's new outfit.

I think asking Casey about it would be more productive, and bringing up some of the issues raised in this thread, without using terms like "deal breaker" would be the right way to reach devs on this matter.

For the record, I like Ashley's new armor, but I want all my squadmates to wear practical armor in combat. I don't like exposed skin or breather masks for any character.