612 réponses à ce sujet

[HTTP 404]

art is overrated.  I see OP's point and agree with it but it isn't a big deal to me.

Modifié par HTTP 404, 12 juin 2011 - 02:36 .

[LetMeW1n]

FictionalBreger wrote...

... but I don't think she'll use that through the entire game. I wouldn't be surprised if she pulls out her "real" armor once you're away from Earth.

That^

Move on, lol. Hope, or do something other than pour your heart out here. Inner peace, peaches. Instead of expressing views which appear to some as needing challenging. Nobody's happy, unless I am or you are.

[-Skorpious-]

Oblivious wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

You might want a different example dude because a bullet-proof vest would indeed be ample protection for police officers;)

Shields are the best in ME, so I had to use something of equal value in reality.

Anyways, let me rephrase my question - do police officers wear bullet-proofs vests without any other form of protection/clothing? Do they leave their arms and legs completed exposed? 

Here let me help you find an example. Modern day Soldiers/Marines wear multiple layers of heavy clothing alongside their bullet-proof vest and helmets not because they expect the clothing to stop a bullet but rather to protect against shrapnel and things like glass that may be caught in the wind. They rely principally on their vest to stop bullets but the helmet and clothing are there for shrapnel. Which is precisely the reason I find it odd how Ashley can be deemed "unrealistic" in her new design since her rather resilient-looking apparel seems more than sufficient to deal with shrapnel.

What about Kaidan? And Shepard? Garrus? Their armor can protect from not only shrapnel, but heavier impacts such as larger chunks of debris and melee strikes; Ashley's exposed v-neck and latex cannot protect from the latter. 

[Antivenger]

Looking at some Ashley fan art, and reading back the title of this thread, it got me thinking.

Is it really an artistic vision? Really? Sure it's not pandering to a portion of the fanbase called "horny male gamers"?

I'm not trying to insult the person who designed Ash (though I do apologize that it seems so) but just look at these pieces of fan art.





All of these done well within the context of "Heavy/Medium" armour, with one "Light" showing a bit of skin, but still looking like armour that a combatant would wear.



This.. just looks underdone

[CroGamer002]

LetMeW1n wrote...

FictionalBreger wrote...

... but I don't think she'll use that through the entire game. I wouldn't be surprised if she pulls out her "real" armor once you're away from Earth.

That^

Move on, lol. Hope, or do something other than pour your heart out here. Inner peace, peaches. Instead of expressing views which appear to some as needing challenging. Nobody's happy, unless I am or you are.

And risk that this won't happen and she'll actually have this "armor"?


I won't shut up about this until Bioware confirms will she have actual armor or not.

[Oblivious]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

You might want a different example dude because a bullet-proof vest would indeed be ample protection for police officers;)

Shields are the best in ME, so I had to use something of equal value in reality.

Anyways, let me rephrase my question - do police officers wear bullet-proofs vests without any other form of protection/clothing? Do they leave their arms and legs completed exposed? 

Here let me help you find an example. Modern day Soldiers/Marines wear multiple layers of heavy clothing alongside their bullet-proof vest and helmets not because they expect the clothing to stop a bullet but rather to protect against shrapnel and things like glass that may be caught in the wind. They rely principally on their vest to stop bullets but the helmet and clothing are there for shrapnel. Which is precisely the reason I find it odd how Ashley can be deemed "unrealistic" in her new design since her rather resilient-looking apparel seems more than sufficient to deal with shrapnel.

What about Kaidan? And Shepard? Garrus? Their armor can protect from not only shrapnel, but heavier impacts such as larger chunks of debris and melee strikes; Ashley's exposed v-neck and latex cannot protect from the latter. 

As a matter of fact I am less angry with Ashley and Liara's armor than I am with Kaidan, Shepard, and Garrus. If Bioware want to say that shields are the primary form of defense then that is their right since they write the lore, but they should at least have the sense to provide the same treatment to males as they do to females. If the females are subjective to this new lore choice then Shepard and the rest of the man crew (well except for Krogans since they actually rely on armor) should have similar light looking armor rather than the clunky tank plating they carry around.

[LetMeW1n]

Then don't keep quiet.. All I'm saying is that... I'm not saying anything. Try to make a do something more on your part to get what you want, or do anything. I'll just err, stop posting on the forums for awhile..

[syllogi]

Antivenger wrote...



This.. just looks underdone

Personally, I would settle for her neck and chest covered up, and some assurance that she will wear a helmet in dangerous environmental conditions.  That would make her new armor look like it's actually made to protect, instead of a style choice.  And Ashley values protection over style.

I respect artistic vision, but when it's directly contradicting the artistic vision of the writers who created a character, that's a problem.

[Gabriel S.]

Oblivious wrote...

*snip snip*

As a matter of fact I am less angry with Ashley and Liara's armor than I am with Kaidan, Shepard, and Garrus. If Bioware want to say that shields are the primary form of defense then that is their right since they write the lore, but they should at least have the sense to provide the same treatment to males as they do to females. If the females are subjective to this new lore choice then Shepard and the rest of the man crew (well except for Krogans since they actually rely on armor) should have similar light looking armor rather than the clunky tank plating they carry around.

Now this I agree with. Let Shepard borrow one of Thane's skimpier outfits and let us see his tight six-pack.

[CroGamer002]

LetMeW1n wrote...

Then don't keep quiet.. All I'm saying is that... I'm not saying anything. Try to make a do something more on your part to get what you want, or do anything. I'll just err, stop posting on the forums for awhile..

Oh right, I have no right to express my concerns.
Thank you for telling me that and I should shut up about anything I have problem with.

[Gabriel S.]

Mesina2 wrote...

LetMeW1n wrote...

Then don't keep quiet.. All I'm saying is that... I'm not saying anything. Try to make a do something more on your part to get what you want, or do anything. I'll just err, stop posting on the forums for awhile..

Oh right, I have no right to express my concerns.
Thank you for telling me that and I should shut up about anything I have problem with.

You should disappear, Mesina2, there is clearly a conspiracy against you...

Shhhhh.... People are trying to get rid of you. Hide. Quick! Make like a ninja!

[crimzontearz]

why the hell are people bothering a lead gameplay designer about art direction??

that like harassing me (a customer service guy) about shipment scheduling!!!

[Nohvarr]

TeenZombie wrote...

I respect artistic vision, but when it's directly contradicting the artistic vision of the writers who created a character, that's a problem.

Ashley's writer has come out and said they didn't like the redesign and felt it conflicted with her character?

That's because BioWare want to have their cake and eat it too if they can.

Which worked, Mass Effect 2 was a critical and commercial success. Now all they’re doing is tweaking the formula, allowing people to customize weapons, have a greater degree of choice over weapon load outs, and more options when building their characters

While true to a degree, as I said, I don't believe Mass Effect is on the same path it set out to travel down originally.

And what was the path you foresaw? I imagine that your POV and mine differ greatly, and that the BioDevs have a different view as well.

Here’s what I see, an adventure in space through what we first think is a bright shining universe, but learn is far more complex than first thought.

In Mass Effect, all AI’s were evil, the genophage was meant to sterilize the Krogan, and the Geth were just machines to be destroyed.

Now look at what we learned in ME 2, AI’s can be of use, and even make good crew members. The genophage was actually designed to stabilize Krogan numbers and get them to work with the galactic community, not become extinct. The Geth are a house divided with some favoring freedom for all sentient species. The point of Mass Effect to me is to deconstruct those old tropes/expectation seen in classic Sci-fi and then reconstruct them into something better.

What do/did you see?

Yes, the Mass Effect IP shouldn't remain shackled to those which inspired it and should be free to grow on its own. But it should still remain true to the spirit of them and not just betray that for the sake of a newer, hipper audience.

But it hasn’t actually done this. We’ve seen Liara, Tali, and Ashley. All of them are fully clothed in suits that, when sealed, should protect them in a vacuum. Jack is supposedly changing her look as well though we don’t know if she’s a full squaddie. They’ve added back gameplay elements from ME 1, though modified to fit in with a sleeker system. They’re even going back to the ME 1 style of storytelling. So how have they abandoned the spirit of Mass Effect?

I know you didn’t like ME 2, I did thought it was fantastic, but that game was really an experiment. That was Bioware breaking free of the standard mold they use when making games (KOTOR, Jade Empire) to try something new and see how it worked out. Some of it they liked, some not so much, and now we’re getting a game that they want to make, but makes some allowances for their fans old/new/and soon to be.
As much as people like to harp on DA 2, that was an experiment as well. There they wanted to see if they could tell a story over a much longer period than their previous games. Bioware’s never told a story that spanned ten years before. The concept was ambitious, but the execution was lacking. That said a number of idea presented in DA 2 are well worth further exploration.

Example, companions that have their own lives outside the main character.

A game that might prove interesting and could stand on its own after the events of ME 3 would be one that follows the life of a CSEC Agent trying to help with the rebuilding. Think Mass Effect Mixed with LA Noire and a hint of Deus Ex. Your work in CSEC gains you access to more of the Citadel, or more areas of the Citadel are opened over the years as repairs are completed. You make allies with fellow agents, corporate cops, Nobel mercs, and possible legitimate businesspeople as you work to thwart new players from turning the citadel into a warzone. Using DA 2’s companion system would work well with such a game.

Actually that would be a hard game….I mean I know how to interrogate a human but how do you spot when an Elcor or Hanar is lying….

Anyways my point is that Bioware has to experiment with new story telling techniques and artistic designs if they want to avoid stagnation. Not all of them will work, but the fact they are willing to take the chance is a positive sign.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 12 juin 2011 - 03:06 .

[Eski.Moe]

@ct - She responded to it though and in a rather dismissive way.Though it is pretty pathetic that some go far as trolling on Twitter.

Modifié par Eski.Moe, 12 juin 2011 - 03:07 .

[Nohvarr]

Eski.Moe wrote...

^ She responded to it though and in a rather dismissive way.

Link, I'd like to read it for myself.

[LetMeW1n]

Mesina2 wrote...

LetMeW1n wrote...

Then don't keep quiet.. All I'm saying is that... I'm not saying anything. Try to make a do something more on your part to get what you want, or do anything. I'll just err, stop posting on the forums for awhile..

Oh right, I have no right to express my concerns.
Thank you for telling me that and I should shut up about anything I have problem with.

Err, I wasn't using any sarcasm, lol. I keep thinking it makes me look really pretentious, although I have no problem with other ppl using it. Just acting cute.

Although indeed, sometimes one should 'shut up' (parents, etc). Creates unnecessary bad emotions in everyone sometimes, and sometimes it also isn't worth it. My dumb views though, don't bother. Open mind, relax, do something else. Bye, ****es.

[Gabriel S.]

crimzontearz wrote...

why the hell are people bothering a lead gameplay designer about art direction??

that like harassing me (a customer service guy) about shipment scheduling!!!

Why are we even conversin on this forum, asking each other questions and replying and having idle chatter, that's like - HARASSMENT! Call the coppers!

[Nohvarr]

Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

why the hell are people bothering a lead gameplay designer about art direction??

that like harassing me (a customer service guy) about shipment scheduling!!!

Why are we even conversin on this forum, asking each other questions and replying and having idle chatter, that's like - HARASSMENT! Call the coppers!

Not the same, people are badgering someone for information who has little to do with character design. The reason they're doing it, seems to be because she's there and not because she can actually do anything about it.

[bigSarg]

Well I agree about the catsuits and high heels for women, but if you look at most movies you have the same thing - sex sells- it doesn't matter if its a video game or a movie. I would prefer female looking armor, something that at least you can tell what gender the character is but still be realistic and functional in combat, if they had two different outfits, one for casual and one for combat, I would be happy with that (basically just like Shep has), the women can wear their catsuits as casual wear if need be but please give them realistic armor for combat. 

[ScepticMatt]

Antivenger wrote...

I like those designs. Where did you get them from?

[crimzontearz]

I don't get it. Honestly I do not...

but more on topic

people are also forgetting that the artists do not make the decisions. They are approached by the project leads and are asked "I want concept arts for characters".....

the artists proceed to draw some work, the project leads say "yeah we want more skin" or "no, too wenchy, put her in armor" or "yeah, like that but tweak this and this other aspect"

also, the techies have a word into it too like, the project lead will bring them a sketch from the artists and they may say "WHAT??? have you seen the proportions? this thing is going to clip in soooooooo many ways, this concept is useless to us"

and so on and so forth. Ultimately the decision of what oncept goes forward is on the shoulder of Casey and the other big wigs

[SalsaDMA]

Ripley in the Alien series never needed to be sexified. I don't think anyone thought her character as less of a woman or a person because of her being 'rough and natural' to look at. It fitted her character.

Same it should have been with Ashley in ME series, given the chracter that was established for her.

Just imagine the facepalming if Ripley in Aliens had suddenly started to run around in latex and high heels just to suit some weird perception some marketing dude got about female charcters in visual art...

It's stupid to change established characers in such ways.

[shepskisaac]

Gonna be honest, never expected Ashely's new look to 'cause such a stir. 2nd huge thread already about it. I mean, it's not like they made her uglier, on the contrary xD

[Phaedon]

I followed the whole incident.

I remember one tweet actually, which pissed me off (most things do at this time of the year)

tip for devs: your fans pay your wages, don't ignore their criticisms as being less important than your vision.

I want ME3 to be a painting which expresses the artists' personalities, not the fans', if realism isn't a characteristic of their personalities, then boo hoo, sod off, I think we have had enough fan service lately, and still Bioware doesn't realise that whiners are going to be whiners.