612 réponses à ce sujet

[Icinix]

Ok, I've made no effort to hide the fact I disliked the cat-suits, heels and cleavage in space / combat etc.

But its not a deal breaker. Its a direction that I dont' like, but doesn't change anything beyond an aesthetic value.

I just wish we could all agree to disagree *chokes back tears* because if people on the Internet can't get along...

*breaks out into tears*

How can we ever hope to love each other in real life despite our differences.

*runs screaming tearfully from the thread*

[Whatever42]

GodWood wrote...

Yes but they went out of their way to explain this magic pixie dust using 'plausible' scientific explanations and it remained consistent throughout the game.

Now we've just got "f*ck off it looks cool".

I do agree that the writers in ME1 did pay more attention to the lore. I do agree that ME2/ME3 are more into sexy than strict adherence to the lore and the laws established within the fiction. I won't fault you for finding this annoying because I too have a flicker of annoyance when I see something simply added for coolness when it blatantly violates previously established laws.

However, I don't think Bioware will significantly change on this point (although I do stress again that Ashley is not wearing high heels and is not in a catsuit so they likely offer options that tone it down) so hopefully its nothing that really annoys you. If it is... sorry. I think you're out of luck. However, sexy can be fun too, even if it's unrealistic. Just go with it. 

[jeweledleah]

zeoduos wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

zeoduos wrote...

I understand your need for immersion, but their outfits are such a small part of that immersion experience you are seeking imo. I think you're letting such a trivial matter overshadow the great and more important aspects of the series.

they are not small for some of us.

for many a playthrough of mine, Miranda haven't been off the ship unless I couldn't avoid it, becasue of her outfit.  she goes out with me all the time now, ever since second alternate appearance pack (except for when it comes to certain missions - like hazardous enviroment.. or geth and collector ship - you know, facemask city).

taking a character as practical as Ashley and sexing her up for what currently seems to be no good reason and giving no option to players of putting her back into armor?  I need another character that i'll never take into combat like I need to be fightning in high heels in real life.

P.S.  Ashley already looked good without having to resort to artificial trappings.  except she looked good AND practical.  now she just looks sexy

I see that now, but to call it deal-breaking? (referring to OP) You're being too harsh on yourself.

is it a dealbreaker?  when it comes to buying Mass Effect 3?  no.  when it comes to saving Ashley on Virmire instead of Kaidan?  yes.  I prefer him to Ashley anyways, but I wanted to have saves with her alive because she was the unconventional female character - someone feminine yet tough and not pretentious.  she didn't feel like miss fanservice.  she does now.  and i didn't kill off one of my favorite characters... for this.  I'm not deleting her saves yet.  I want to see more information before I make any final choices.  but unlike Miranda who could survive without having to kill off someone else - Ash is not someone I can just save and then ignore.

[Clover Rider]

GodWood wrote...

Teknor wrote...

FluffyScarf wrote...
ME1? Believable? Detailed? Scientific explanations? Remove those glasses.

Yeah the entire theme of the game is based on some magical substance called element zero which is able make a travesty of physical laws. Some idiots buy it as scientific.

Yes but they went out of their way to explain this magic pixie dust using 'plausible' scientific explanations and it remained consistent throughout the game.

Now we've just got "f*ck off it looks cool".

You know it's one thing for Superheroes with powers(Wonder Woman, Power Girl, Ms Marvel) to wear "sexy" outfits because, hey they have god like powers what do they care, but in Mass Effect no one can say that so it makes no sense and as you say to make it look "cool".

Modifié par Some Geth, 12 juin 2011 - 08:37 .

[GodWood]

zeoduos wrote...
Uhm, have you seen the complete end product? Didn't think so.

ME2 had the same problem, ME3 seems to be continuing it.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to complain.

[TheBlackBaron]

darknoon5 wrote...

You do know shields provide the main protection, right? Armour is just a back-up layer of protection.

Besides, I see nobody here complaining about Benezia's outfit in ME1...characters in ME have always been sexualized to an extent, unfortunately, but it's not nearly as bad as in other games, and the characters actually have personality.

No, there were definitely complaints about it on the old BioBoards. And, of course, whenever Benezia was on-screen it was in a climate controlled facility (whether Sovereign's interior or Peak 15). 

The complaint here is not that the characters are oversexualized, it's that it's completely ridiculous to be wearing a breathing mask in hard vaccuum (the jumpsuit is somewhat more tolerable, we've already got stuff like it irl, but I still greatly prefer actual armor for combat). 

[zeoduos]

Correct me if I'm wrong but the demo scenes showing Ashley are part of the Earth demo right? Where Shepard and Capt. Anderson are dressed casually. It could just be that she's in her casual attire.

[darknoon5]

Xewaka wrote...

Seeing a formerly level-headed and practical character destroy his former image makes it worse.

You do know this is referring to Ashley, right?

Also, I think the OP is childish and annoying. They've made it clear they love ME1, dislike ME2 and dislike the direction of ME3, so why stick around? Their harassment of Christina was also uncalled for and childish, even had they been asking somebody who actually deals with the artistic side of things.

[Warkupo]

I recall reading a codex entry that describes the vacuum of space being more myth than logic. That you *can* actually walk into space butt naked save for a breathing apparatus and be relatively okay.

Not that I can find that codex entry or anything.

[CroGamer002]

Warkupo wrote...

Welcome to video games?

Just be glad she's not in a metal bikini.

And that's problem.

This shouldn't be even an issue in video games in general.
Games are art while many movies and books don't have a problem with delivering great woman character without being in sexy outfit in combat.


Bioware is going in wrong direction with Ashley.

How can people treat video game seriously as an art while doing stuff like that?



Also "this isn't military simulation" excuse doesn't cut it.

[Art3m]

Though I agree with OP, i assume devs won't change anything so far the game is alreay done. They said they were going to attract more people, they do it right. Sex sales. If you want something, it's better to DIY.

[Seboist]

All I can say about Bioware's new "artistic vision" is that I'm glad Ashley died in my playthrough in favor of a character who wears real armor.

[Leonia]

jeweledleah wrote...

is it a dealbreaker?  when it comes to buying Mass Effect 3?  no.  when it comes to saving Ashley on Virmire instead of Kaidan?  yes.  I prefer him to Ashley anyways, but I wanted to have saves with her alive because she was the unconventional female character - someone feminine yet tough and not pretentious.  she didn't feel like miss fanservice.  she does now.  and i didn't kill off one of my favorite characters... for this.  I'm not deleting her saves yet.  I want to see more information before I make any final choices.  but unlike Miranda who could survive without having to kill off someone else - Ash is not someone I can just save and then ignore.

That's a reasonable approach to have. Wait and see before jumping to conclusions. I too would like to have more reasons to save Ashley (also a fan of Kaidan here) but appearance alone hardly factors into a decision like that. At least you acknowledge there's more to her character than just what she is wearing. These are still early days, let's hope Bioware is more focused on quality than they are on appeasing horny male fans (and I'm confident that they are more interested in Ashley as a person rather than as some form of fanservice).

[FluffyScarf]

The game is 9 months from completion. They didn't even have a proper HUD for E3. And there's nothing wrong with sex. Unless you're one of those people.

[Whatever42]

zeoduos wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong but the demo scenes showing Ashley are part of the Earth demo right? Where Shepard and Capt. Anderson are dressed casually. It could just be that she's in her casual attire.

Apparently form fitting armor on a guy is fine but on a woman its a catsuit.

[True Zarken]

No one will drop the subject will they?

I am just wondering why it's just all of a sudden when E3 hit that people are complaining in full force. What about when Game informer released a picture of her ages ago? Where were all the haters then?

Also there will be an Appearance pack with the CE so maybe they'll fix it there and the Appearance pack will be avaliable for purchase if you didn't get the CE anyway so does it really matter? (Of course someone is going to say it is because everyone can't be pleased)

Modifié par True Zarken, 12 juin 2011 - 08:46 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I agree with the OP. In SF you cannot be too critical about realism, but science is also part of the term SF and therefor I think it is not too much to ask for the illusion of realism.

ME was never SF. ME was space opera or fantasy. It was Star Wars. It was Star Trek. 

It had a hot race of blue chicks. It had magical powers. It had a super soldier. 

I agree that ME1 was marginally more "realistic" than ME2 but calling it SF is a bit too much.

Casey Hudson does not agree with you.

From Building Bridges: Casey Hudson Talks Mass Effect 2...

Game On: How would you describe the Mass Effect series to someone who's never played it?

Casey Hudson: To me, it's a huge science fiction universe in the style of the big science fiction properties like Star Trek and Star Wars, though more targeted at an adult experience. We're trying to create something that's an entire universe people can immerse themselves in, but also something for the mature demographic that wants an adult story. That's why we've take a Jack Bauer approach to Commander Shepard [the series protagonist]. We've tried to present you with agonizing choices as you navigate your way through the sequel and built that into a bigger, much darker story.

[marshalleck]

True Zarken wrote...

No one will drop the subject will they? 

I am just wondering why it's just all of a sudden when E3 hit that people are complaining in full force. What about when Game informer released a picture of her ages ago? Where were all the haters then?

They were there then too, just fewer of them. Probably due to less media exposure.

Anyways, it seems like complaints turn into memes on these forums. All it takes is a few people whining about something and all of a sudden it's an existential crisis spawning 100-page complaint threads

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 juin 2011 - 08:46 .

[FluffyScarf]

Too busy glorifying ME1 apparently.

[Seboist]

True Zarken wrote...

No one will drop the subject will they?

I am just wondering why it's just all of a sudden when E3 hit that people are complaining in full force. What about when Game informer released a picture of her ages ago? Where were all the haters then?

People were complaining about her new look back then too.

[goofyomnivore]

I hated Jacob and Miranda's outfits. Ashley's looks x10 better.. it isn't Ashley.. but it doesn't look near as bad. I don't get the heels, but they aren't as bad as Samara's or Miranda's.

[Golden Owl]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

zeoduos wrote...

Correct me if I'm wrong but the demo scenes showing Ashley are part of the Earth demo right? Where Shepard and Capt. Anderson are dressed casually. It could just be that she's in her casual attire.

Apparently form fitting armor on a guy is fine but on a woman its a catsuit.

Personally hate Jacobs suit....still wishing BW would come out with a DLC to fix his outfit, as they did with Miranda's.....though it's the heels I truly despise, they are beyond ridiculous....shields to not explain them....As a woman I know how truly ridiculous heels are.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 12 juin 2011 - 08:48 .

[Warkupo]

Mesina2 wrote...

Warkupo wrote...

Welcome to video games?

Just be glad she's not in a metal bikini.

And that's problem.

This shouldn't be even an issue in video games in general.
Games are art while many movies and books don't have a problem with delivering great woman character without being in sexy outfit in combat.


Bioware is going in wrong direction with Ashley.

How can people treat video game seriously as an art while doing stuff like that?



Also "this isn't military simulation" excuse doesn't cut it.

You're making the assumption that everyone considers art by the same standards that you do. 

They don't. 

Hell, most traditional art features completely naked women and as an Artist myself I can tell you that I spend more time looking at naked women than heavily clothed ones. A lot of people consider the female body itself to be artistic. 

So what you've just said to me, is that Ashley should be naked. 

I agree entirely. 

Modifié par Warkupo, 12 juin 2011 - 08:49 .

[Terror_K]

Eh... Miss Norman doesn't even seem to know her own games' lore it seems. Somebody else commented recently on something similar on her Twitter and she said something along the lines of, "the primary defense technology in ME is shields" (paraphrased).

Gee, last time I checked, kinetic barriers were something that was PART OF ARMOUR. They weren't just a bracelet or belt you could slap on; they needed a power source. Same goes for the medi-gel dispensers, they're part of armour too. And yet squaddies wearing paper-thin gear with no power source and even as little as some nipple straps can somehow magically get the benefits of kinetic barriers and medi-gel dispensers that magically comes from nowhere. Biotics can get away with the barriers to a degree due to having natural biotic barriers, but that only takes you so far.

The thing was the original game did such a good job of making sure everybody dressed appropriately for a group of individuals who knew they'd be exploring unknown worlds. There was such thought and care put into the design of the armour, because it wasn't JUST armour for combat but doubled as a space suit, survival suit, hazmat suit, environment suit, etc. It was always properly sealed and a full helmet always came into play when needed. ME2 just ignored this for immature, pathetic "rule of cool" style "dudebro" bullcrap designs just to appeal to mindless horny teenagers it seems. It's pathetic. The least they could have done is made the suits sealable and/or had alternates for the appropriate areas. But no... and we didn't even get proper helmets, instead silly-looking breathing masks that half the time weren't even attached to anything.

And even now BioWare and the ME2 devs just seem to completely ignore this aspect. Liara suffered the same issues despite the complaints in LotSB, long after people had brought up the issue. Sure, we got armour for Miranda in a Alt Appearance Pack, but it was wasted because she still had a stupid breathing mask instead of a full helmet. Now we've got Ashley looking like Miranda II it seems in ME3. BioWare just don't seem to acknowledge this as an issue at all! It's beyond frustrating as a fan who just can't take this universe seriously any more because of it and feels it just makes the whole IP look childish and poorly thought-out. All just because they want to appeal to a broader, stupider audience who like pathetic fan-service and over-the-top nonsense like this.

Finally, you can't have a major plotpoint being the main character being exposed to space and killed one moment, but then have almost all the other main characters seemingly completely immune to the dangers of space so trivially for the rest of the game. You can't be both an intelligent, deep and mature sci-fi and also be an over-the-top, mindless "dudebro/rule of cool" affair that lacks consistency as well. Either go back to the intelligent, thought-provoking and deep sci-fi you set out to be in the first place, or just go all the way Michael Bay if you're going to keep shoveling the ****e with stuff like this. Stop trying to play the middle-ground, because it doesn't work, and pretty much every attempt you make to be believable and have integrity as a sci-fi IP is automatically flushed down the toilet when you have BS like the ME2 outfits and other juvenile Modern Hollywood aspects on the go.

[Clover Rider]

marshalleck wrote...

True Zarken wrote...

No one will drop the subject will they? 

I am just wondering why it's just all of a sudden when E3 hit that people are complaining in full force. What about when Game informer released a picture of her ages ago? Where were all the haters then?

They were there then too, just fewer of them. Probably due to less media exposure.

Anyways, it seems like complaints turn into memes on these forums. All it takes is a few people whining about something and all of a sudden it's an existential crisis spawning 100-page complaint threads

All of the forum is a meme at this point.