I have a dream; That all of us can drop this topic and move onto more important topics that involve the Mass Effect franchise. Space Combat, Ground Combat, RPG Elements, Customization, and the grand conclusion of Romances.
Do we really want many, many more months of appearance threads when those topics are waiting to be talked about in full force?
What can we really talked about this stuff?
Space Combat? Not seeing it outside of cutscenes.
Ground Combat? We saw E3 Demo. Nothing to discuss outside of how will other classes look.
RPG Elements? We saw them in E3 Demo and no real complainant.
Customization? With exception of how shall we customize squadmate, nothing really to discuss.
Damn kinda cut me down there mate Haha. Ah well argue away!
what really irks me is blokes are now typically wearing massive heavy armour, and women are now wearing typically skin tight clothes with makeup and long flowing hair.
You're taking a step forward with same sex relationships, and a step backwards with the portrayal of men as hulking soldiers and women as eye candy.
+1 So true
This too.
I'm bothered for Kaidan to have heavy armor too. He's a Biotic! Biotics get exhausted very easy.
Image won't work. It's do with the outrage that Ash looks wrong with skin exposed in armor while another BW game puts women in more revealing armor without complaint.
Ashley made fun of those kind of outfits and prided herself on being a soldier to the core. They've crossed a line.
Image won't work. It's do with the outrage that Ash looks wrong with skin exposed in armor while another BW game puts women in more revealing armor without complaint.
1. This is about Ash possibly showing cleavage *in space*. That's a major difference. 2. Based on what we know from the two previous games, Ash as a character dislikes skimpy armor, so it's jarring to suddenly see her in one. 3. DA team is not ME team. Different universes, different expectations.
ME1 had a giant insect impale someone through the chest. But that wasn't 'very Hollywood' apparently. It also had a space battle, very much like the space battles in every sci-fi space film released. It even had dramatic forced choices on who should stay to arm the nuke. Very Terminator-ish. And lets not forget the ever so convenient 'flashback of doom' Shepard received. But I guess that isn't Hollywood at all.
There's a difference between being "cinematic" and being "Modern Hollywood" though. Mass Effect purposefully tries to be cinematic, but it was supposed to be inspired by (again, according to several devs), the sci-fi films and shows from the late 70's through to early 90's, with mostly 80's stuff. Casey Hudson and others have often pointed to and listed the likes of The Empire Strikes Back, Star Trek II and III, Alien and Aliens, Blade Runner, Dune, etc. as the areas and style they were going for. These are a far cry from the likes of Michael Bay's Transformers, G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra, XXX, Stealth, etc. from the last decade or so. And that's the type of "Modern Hollywood" stuff that seems to be seeping in as BioWare tries to appeal more to the younger audience of today who lap this stuff up.
Trek is hardly "rule of cool" at all. It's generally known as a cult, nerdy IP and nerdy/geeky stuff is almost never "rule of cool" at all.
I've noted this pattern before from you, this dislike of anything you perceive as appealing to the a wider audience. You seem to prefer things remain amongst a small but dedicated group of admirers. I till recall you complaining that bringing new fans into ME was bad because Bioware would pay more attention to them, than the older fans. Yet ME 3 has already brought back weapon customization and deeper character customization. In fact the new Character upgrade & Weapon Upgrade screens show off more stats for you. So you haven't been forgotten, or dismissed. The ME team is giving fans what they can while also following their vision of the universe they created.
Now something else to consider, ‘inspired by’ does not mean ‘shackled to’ The BioDevs took those old sci-fi properties as a beginning and then went their own way. Star Trek TNG and later Deep Space nine did the same thing in their respective series. TNG’s Trek is a very different beast from the original series. The Klingons got character development, the ship was turned into cruise ship with teeth and Star Fleet became so by the book the Kirk would’ve been kicked out lonr before he made Admiral.
Deep Space Nine went in another direction, with a Star Fleet Officer committing a series of crimes and getting away with it, since it benefited the Alpha Quadrant which was currently embroiled in a war.
(The inspiration for my Paragade)
So let’s not use those older sci-fi series as a chain to force the BioDevs down a particular path, but see them as a platform from which the Mass Effect universe can take off and find it’s own path.
Oh, and OP, harassing Mrs. Norman is like loosing your contacts in the dark on a street at night, then searching under the lamppost because that’s where the light is.
Ash is too cool for armor anyway. You can't even see her cleavage. Just a thin strip of neck. Male Shep shows more skin in his casual outfit on the SR2. Two bare forearms!
Key word there being 'casual', Shep wears full body bulky armour in combat.
This.
This being her causal outfit is not a problem. Being her combat gear is.
Also James Vega has an armor on him. Why wouldn't she had one too in that scene if it's just causal outfit?
As long as BioWare are still peddling theirs and you're just popping in to make pointless, inane comments lacking anything remotely constructive whatsoever... yes!
Image won't work. It's do with the outrage that Ash looks wrong with skin exposed in armor while another BW game puts women in more revealing armor without complaint.
1. This is about Ash possibly showing cleavage *in space*. That's a major difference. 2. Based on what we know from the two previous games, Ash as a character dislikes skimpy armor, so it's jarring to suddenly see her in one. 3. DA team is not ME team. Different universes, different expectations.
2. where was that ever said? so far in me3 we have only seen her very briefly on-board the normandy - why would she be wearing combat armour then?
Revealing skin and form fitting is skimpy now? If she goes into battle with a mini skirt and nothing but a bra, you guys win a cookie. All we've seen is an outfit showing her neck and a miniscule amount of boobage. Or is that still too much for Ash?
I said this in another thread but I think it's worth mentioning over here too, considering the title:
why does the artistic vision of the visual designers trump the artistic vision of the writers? Discuss.
As long as BioWare are still peddling theirs and you're just popping in to make pointless, inane comments lacking anything remotely constructive whatsoever... yes!
hey i'm not the one making stupid, baseless and flat out wrong comparisons with any kinds of "style" that the series is taking. personally i think the mass effect series' tone is more similar to the first group you mentioned, but also more modern sci fi literature than anything else, and certainly nothing akin to "michael bay this or that" that you purport (without evidence).
Image won't work. It's do with the outrage that Ash looks wrong with skin exposed in armor while another BW game puts women in more revealing armor without complaint.
1. This is about Ash possibly showing cleavage *in space*. That's a major difference. 2. Based on what we know from the two previous games, Ash as a character dislikes skimpy armor, so it's jarring to suddenly see her in one. 3. DA team is not ME team. Different universes, different expectations.
2. where was that ever said? so far in me3 we have only seen her very briefly on-board the normandy - why would she be wearing combat armour then?
Where was what ever said? Ash's dislike for light armor? ME1. Yes, she actually said so herself. And what comes for the demo, there was a guy in full combat gear standing right next to her.
Ah, so we're not talking about a Miranda catsuit but simply a style that is un-Ashley. Now we're in for a character debate. What we see in the SS is clearly light armor. Ashley is also clearly more casual. It is somewhat out of character compared to what she portrayed in ME1.
However, there might be reasons that she's wearing light armor. Maybe her role has changed so heavy combat armor is not appropriate. As for the hair style, well, people do sometimes change. Or perhaps again, she's that way for a specific reason. I don't think its reasonable that we take it as a harbinger of doom, however.
Hey, I'll admit that until we know more it's too early to cry havoc about it since we've only seen a little of her and haven't seen what she's like as a squaddie yet, etc. but BioWare has yet to give any indication that they're going to reverse the horrible trend that ME2 went with, and given how Ashley's been shown every time thus far it seems likely that this is going to be her standard appearance until something to the contrary is seen. Again, it could be just her early or casual appearance, and she may have some proper, practical armour as a sqadmate on missions, but there's no indication of it. And given how BioWare just don't seem to acknowledge the lack of practicality as an issue (and that they in fact made the stupid mistake in ME2 in the first place, which I honestly thought they were better than) doesn't give much confidence.
Again, given that exploration is supposed to be part of Mass Effect, and that this is a group of people who know very well they could be visiting dangerous, unknown worlds, it's pretty stupid that they aren't really prepared for it dress-wise. Especially given how everybody in the original game seemed to acknowledge the dangers of space. To me it's about as consistent and logical as if would be if the quarians were able to suddenly walk around without helmets and environmental suits in ME3 without explanation.
I'm not going to disagree with you sentiment or even your conclusions. While I do think that our squadmates are likely going to have some armor options, I seriously doubt that Bioware is going to go back stylistically to ME1. I simply believe that they are going to provide squad outfits that are a little tamer than we saw in ME2. I don't think what we saw in that trailer is equal to the Miranda catsuit, with high heels and certain body parts exposed.
I'm not at all against your sentiment, that we should see some more "realistic" outfits but I don't think we're going to go all the way back to ME1 - I just think that the best we'll see is the ME2 alt style packs. I could be wrong and I'd be fine with that.
If you're going to harass Christina Norman with questions, at least have the courtesy to harass her about gameplay... not ART.. she has no influence or say over that stuff, that's a whole other department at Bioware.
If you want to bug her about the shooting gameplay, skill powers, anything combat related, then that's a different case.. go for it.
What you did was no different than harassing the lead sound designer over "How come ME3 has ammo?! I hate ammo!"
Image won't work. It's do with the outrage that Ash looks wrong with skin exposed in armor while another BW game puts women in more revealing armor without complaint.
1. This is about Ash possibly showing cleavage *in space*. That's a major difference. 2. Based on what we know from the two previous games, Ash as a character dislikes skimpy armor, so it's jarring to suddenly see her in one. 3. DA team is not ME team. Different universes, different expectations.
2. where was that ever said? so far in me3 we have only seen her very briefly on-board the normandy - why would she be wearing combat armour then?
Where was what ever said? Ash's dislike for light armor? ME1. Yes, she actually said so herself. And what comes for the demo, there was a guy in full combat gear standing right next to her.
you mean the difference between an officer (LT) and a security guard? we have no way of putting the scene into proper context from the brief shot you see, but you're making wild assumptions anyway - there's no way of suggesting that ashley wouldn't have dressed in combat armour or similar if the attack had been pre-known, or she was preparing to go on the ground, the mission was planned rather than an emergency pickup etc etc.
If you're going to harass Christina Norman with questions, at least have the courtesy to harass her about gameplay... not ART.. she has no influence or say over that stuff, that's a whole other department at Bioware.
If you want to bug her about the shooting gameplay, skill powers, anything combat related, then that's a different case.. go for it.
What you did was no different than harassing the lead sound designer over "How come ME3 has ammo?! I hate ammo!"
From what I can see, various devs were asked about it, she was the only one who replied. And it's not like she couldn't just have said it's not really her turf and point people in the right direction.
I've to say I agree with the OP. Casual / impractical outfits are not meant to be worn into battles / command deck of a ship geared to fight. If it were a luxury liner, that's a different story. But I suppose since Normandy SR2 is not a Alliance vessel, Shep can overlook the fact that not everyone is practical. Rules are bent. So Miranda thnks she's made of godsteel *shrug*, tiptapping into fights in high heels or that Jack thinks her skin is armor. Not that I care how they look, I only need their biotic skills. If they get killed, there's the reset button.
If that's how the devs want ME2 to be; a flighty space fantasy adventure with chars displaying themselves in such a ostentatious manner ...what can I say? Would it make any difference? I suppose they also want to make it easy on themselves; creating and designing armors can be a pain in the neck and fingers. Players need not howl; I did not get that armor! etc. But I didn't hold ME2 in the same light as ME1; it has lost realism and innovation that could invoke annalyses of how a particular futuristic item could possibly work and aspects of life out there; civilian and military. But then, it's only a game. Heh. I'm asking too much out of it.
Oh yes you did. And you changed your avatar again. Now where's your indignation at the tiny bit revealed skin on Ash?
ME2? Ostentatious? Did you see the Krogan armor in ME1? It had giant blue tubes sticking into the helmet. It had ugly green camo. Yes, camo. In space. And those plastic red/black batmobile colors. Those sure were subtle.
Image won't work. It's do with the outrage that Ash looks wrong with skin exposed in armor while another BW game puts women in more revealing armor without complaint.
1. This is about Ash possibly showing cleavage *in space*. That's a major difference. 2. Based on what we know from the two previous games, Ash as a character dislikes skimpy armor, so it's jarring to suddenly see her in one. 3. DA team is not ME team. Different universes, different expectations.
2. where was that ever said? so far in me3 we have only seen her very briefly on-board the normandy - why would she be wearing combat armour then?
Where was what ever said? Ash's dislike for light armor? ME1. Yes, she actually said so herself. And what comes for the demo, there was a guy in full combat gear standing right next to her.
you mean the difference between an officer (LT) and a security guard? we have no way of putting the scene into proper context from the brief shot you see, but you're making wild assumptions anyway - there's no way of suggesting that ashley wouldn't have dressed in combat armour or similar if the attack had been pre-known, or she was preparing to go on the ground, the mission was planned rather than an emergency pickup etc etc.
How do you know he's a security guard? Plus if you look at the second quoted post, that was not my original point.
Trek is hardly "rule of cool" at all. It's generally known as a cult, nerdy IP and nerdy/geeky stuff is almost never "rule of cool" at all.
I've noted this pattern before from you, this dislike of anything you perceive as appealing to the a wider audience. You seem to prefer things remain amongst a small but dedicated group of admirers. I till recall you complaining that bringing new fans into ME was bad because Bioware would pay more attention to them, than the older fans. Yet ME 3 has already brought back weapon customization and deeper character customization. In fact the new Character upgrade & Weapon Upgrade screens show off more stats for you. So you haven't been forgotten, or dismissed. The ME team is giving fans what they can while also following their vision of the universe they created.
That's because BioWare want to have their cake and eat it too if they can. They don't just want to bring in a new audience or just keep the old ones: they want both. They want to appeal to the nerds that have been with them from the start (or at least early on) as well as the mainstream, herp-derp gamers of today, and everything inbetween. And that's their problem, because in order to do so they have to find this silly middle-ground, and this involves both taking out or toning down the old-school RPG mechanics and bringing in more mainstream, simplified mechanics as well, and the problem with this is that doing so not only brings in some newbies but also puts off a hell of a lot of their old, existing fanbase, while still keeping their games "too nerdy" or "too complex/talky" for many of the other extreme. And BioWare either don't seem to realise this, or don't care because they think they'll get enough overall fans in that middle-zone to make it worth it. So their game design and philosophy as become less natural and about making the great games they should as they should and more about making this so-called "perfect formula" that basically nabs the greatest amount of overall audience they can. It was this mentality and style that sent Dragon Age down the crapper with its pathetic excuse for a sequel, and while the transition hasnt been as extreme because Mass Effect wasn't as hardcore an RPG as DAO was in the first place, the same thing befell ME2 to a similar degree as well. So Mass Effect's vision as it is now isn't the same as it started to be; it's changed in order to branch out more.
Now something else to consider, ‘inspired by’ does not mean ‘shackled to’ The BioDevs took those old sci-fi properties as a beginning and then went their own way. Star Trek TNG and later Deep Space nine did the same thing in their respective series. TNG’s Trek is a very different beast from the original series. The Klingons got character development, the ship was turned into cruise ship with teeth and Star Fleet became so by the book the Kirk would’ve been kicked out lonr before he made Admiral.
Deep Space Nine went in another direction, with a Star Fleet Officer committing a series of crimes and getting away with it, since it benefited the Alpha Quadrant which was currently embroiled in a war.
(The inspiration for my Paragade)
So let’s not use those older sci-fi series as a chain to force the BioDevs down a particular path, but see them as a platform from which the Mass Effect universe can take off and find it’s own path.
While true to a degree, as I said, I don't believe Mass Effect is on the same path it set out to travel down originally. And while the Trek IP did take slightly different directions as time went on, the good ones still stayed fairly true to the original spirit of the series, and the ones that didn't ended up killing the IP and getting it reset. Ironically to a less mature and more Modern Hollywood affair aimed more at a new, younger audience than at existing fans.
Yes, the Mass Effect IP shouldn't remain shackled to those which inspired it and should be free to grow on its own. But it should still remain true to the spirit of them and not just betray that for the sake of a newer, hipper audience. What Mass Effect 2 reminded me off funnily enough was the likes of the second seasons of Buck Rogers, Battlestar Galactica and Space 1999, which were all retooled by the networks to appeal to a younger, bigger audience who were their target demographic, and then ended up sucking and sinking. Or for a more recent example, Stargate Universe, which basically spat in the faces of SG1 and Atlantis and went on to become the same trite ultra-gritty, real and super-serious emo dramatic crap as every other second dramatic series out there on TV today. It wasn't as bad as these examples, granted, but it still reminded me of these cases. You can't be both a homage to classic sci-fi and also modern Hollywood tripe. They just don't mix, and you cease to be one as soon as you try and be the other.
And personally, I'd be far more willing to accept the dumbing-down and simplification and mainstreamlining of the Mass Effect series gameplay wise if at least style wise it remained mature, consistent and intelligent. I'd quite happily see those improved RPG mechanics in ME3 gone (which, btw, I like the look of a lot) if it simply meant every companion in ME3 had proper, sensible gear and the whole thing didn't feel like a bit of Michael Bay had trickled into the formula here and there. IP consistency, integrity and overall believability along with immersion are far more important to me than the gameplay itself. I fell in love with the Mass Effect IP not just for what it was, but for what it wasn't. And now I'm afraid it's going to crumble away and succumb to the same fate as many of my other favourites before I've even had much of a chance to get to know it.
Ce sujet est fermé
Haha. Ah well argue away! 
Retour en haut
Would it make any difference? I suppose they also want to make it easy on themselves; creating and designing armors can be a pain in the neck and fingers. Players need not howl; I did not get that armor! etc. But I didn't hold ME2 in the same light as ME1; it has lost realism and innovation that could invoke annalyses of how a particular futuristic item could possibly work and aspects of life out there; civilian and military. But then, it's only a game. Heh. 
