36 réponses à ce sujet

[Cosmar]

^^^ I agree.

Like I said in the beginning, all games are technically RPGs if the only definition is "playing role of a character." But not all games are RPGs, so that's obviously not the case.

Yeah, everyone has different definitions for RPGs. My definition includes character-based skills rather than player-based. ME1 was more along these lines, with Shep's ability to kill things with, say, a sniper rifle, depending on his level of training with that weapon, not only the player's reflexes and coordination.

These are great games and I love them. Loved ME2. I grew up playing RPGs like Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale, Ultima series, and love KOTOR and DA:O, etc. When I think of RPGs, I think of games like those. So, in comparison, ME2 and ME3 to a greater extent do not really seem like RPGs.

And of course, I am a tabletop D&D nut...so of course I'm going to be very protective of my specific and narrow-minded views of what an RPG is.

Modifié par Cosmar, 12 juin 2011 - 02:40 .

[Medhia Nox]

I don't mind turning the fighting into more of a twitch based mechanic - that's actually a bonus.

Tabletop RPGs are meant to simulate a visceral combat experience - not literally turn-based. In the transition to video games - I think the turn-based experience (though I enjoy it) was actually a disservice to what RPGs are supposed to imply during combat.

However - there are a handful of things that I don't believe should change.

1. Choices and the ability to genuinely alter the game environment.

2. Character development - and I don't mean stats (though that is a part of it). I mean having your character change due to the game based experiences.

3. NPC relations. I don't mean "romances" - I've never seen an RPG where "romances" have been done that resemble anything other than teen fantasy fulfillment. I mean - exploring NPC nuances and forming likes and dislikes with characters based on your interaction with them.

There's more - but this is just an opinion thread - so anything in depth is relatively pointless.

Bioware is generally successful with some of 'my' key points - so I'll keep purchasing. Certain titles have recently made me more cautious - but ME 2 was not one of them.

[Dragoonlordz]

Mass Effect series ~

Camera Perspective is 3rd person = 3rd Person
Has Party = Party Based
Has Guns = Shooter
Has (subjective) RPG elements = RPG elements (subjective)

End Result = 3rd person party based shooter with (subjective) RPG elements

[PnXMarcin1PL]

Damnit, Mass Effect is hybrid of RPG and 3rd Person View shooter games!!

[Bozorgmehr]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The things I crossed out are things that do not define an RPG imho, they are things FPS have, Action games also have and so on just as much as anything under the banner of RPG. The only things that should be listed as an RPG defining is something that the others genres do not have which makes it seporate from those. I would cross the others out too if could think of any games that had those and was not a RPG genre lol. It's subjective though which is why I put (imho) in this.

LMFAO, following your logic there are no RPGs. Shooters have weapons, so RPGs can't have those without remaining an RPG? Action, strategy, puzzle etc games are all played using K&M or controller - RPGs should be played with what? A baseball bat or something or they would come under the banner of computer games?

Mass Effect series is a 3rd Person (party based) Shooter with RPG elements.

Given it's subjective no-one is going to win this argument and bringing it up was dumb in the first place.

Mass Effect is a hybrid which means it cannot be a 'pure' RPG, shooter or whatever. Mass Effect is like a smart-phone. You can watch a movie on your iPhone, but it's nothing like a home theater system; you can play games, but not like you can on a decent gaming rig; you can take pictures, but not like a SLR etc etc. But you can do all those things with a device that fits in your pocket.

[crimzontearz]

uhm......the moment you start playing a role it becomes an RPG. Commander shepard can be played as a role so ME is an RPG as opposed to say GoW which is not

ME3 will feature level and skill progression...upgrade systems based on the loot/purchased items and so on and so forth. Face it, it's an RPG

[Walker White]

The increasing frequency of these threads suggests that some really needs to posit a formal theory for cRPG classification that is of the same depth as the threefold model for traditional RPGs.

http://www.darkshire...eory/threefold/

As that theory shows, there was never any agreement on the nature of an RPG before they appeared on computers. The point of the theory was to understand the spectrum (which was not a one dimensional spectrum). But all of the discussions on thus forum are one dimensional.

[Bad King]

TheCrakFox wrote...

You can influence the story based on your decisions, that's what makes is an RPG. Not accuracy stats.

ME3 has more stat based rpg elements anyway (or so I have heard).

Modifié par Bad King, 12 juin 2011 - 03:10 .

[Grissium]

I hate what the term "RPG" has become in the video-game industry. Mainly because I'm one of those nerds who plays Dungeons and Dragons. RPG stands for Role Playing Game, I really don't get how skills that level up with you or whatever means "RPG-elements" in this industry. It drives me up the wall when I hear so-in-so game has RPG elements, and said game doesn't have what I would consider a story.

That being said Mass Effect games are RPG by my personal egocentric view point. And here is why, when I made up my first Shepard, I picked the Military Origin, mostly because that was the only one where my parents were still alive (I really hate that story thing where the hero is this lone wolf whose parents died), and I decided that I would pick ruthless.

Then I made a few decisions about his character based on what they said about me in the intro in Mass Effect 1. In short I chose that Shepard believes that the Military is there to protect civilians at any cost, and if that means soldiers die then so be it. Shepards job is to save as many people as he can. Secondly sometimes to save people you have to make decisions that are not nice, and frankly people might find distasteful. And you know what, I have been able to make decisions based on that for the whole game, it's been awesome, my Shepard actually has a bit of an arc, at least in my own head. Hense, I am playing a role in a game, RPG, you see what I did there.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

While this is utterly subjective, I would say that the lack of impact of stats on areas such as accuracy is what makes ME 3 a Shooter with RPG elements as opposed to a hybrid RPG.

While I said before that all an RPG needs is the ability to roleplay a character, I didn't mean that you pretend you are Shepard. That's not it at all.

You roleplay a character. Not insert yourself into the narrative. That character is a separate entity to you. To enforce this ideal of a separate entity, the character must rely on it's stats and skills in order to carry out each action, not rely on the player's own skills. Hence the part about stats -> accuracy. A player initiates an action (I will attack, I will persuade, I will craft) but whether you will be able to succeed or not is wholly dependant on the character, not you.

The idea of "why can't I shoot if I can but my stats won't let me" is exactly the idea.

It doesn't matter what you can do, it matters what your character can do.

That's roleplaying. Playing a character. There would always be a level of self insertion as you attach yourself to the narrative, but ideally, you are playing as a character, not you. That's the technical side of things. Now, when you layer on top of that, choices and consequences with the world reacting to them accordingly, that's the narrative end of things, and you're golden.

I will say though, that I am happier that the RPG focus has been removed from Mass Effect, it leads to more fluid and enjoyable gameplay. I am happy with stats determining accuracy, even a "to-hit" mechanic like in Morrowind, but it depends on the type of game you're making.

The kind of game Mass Effect is suffers from such elements. It is at heart, a Third Person Shooter with RPG elements tacked onto the side. Making the combat more twichy and less RPG-y is an improvement in making the game more enjoyable and fluid (imo).

Hopefully it retains the narrative elements of RPGs, even if it lacks the mechanical and technical aspects.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 12 juin 2011 - 03:17 .

[TexasToast712]

TheCrakFox wrote...

You can influence the story based on your decisions, that's what makes is an RPG. Not accuracy stats.

This guy gets it.

[Parah_Salin]

I think of it like the distinction between pen and paper RPGs and LARPS (Live Action Role Playing). Pen and paper the stats control both "to hit" and damage. LARPS you actually spar with foam-padded weapons. You control your actual fighting ability, but the stats control how much in-game damage you do.

You still often put just as much (or more) thought into your character build and different items in LARPs, and role playing as Pen and Paper, but you just take over certain tasks that used to be handled by dice.

So yeah, it's an RPG. It's also a TPS too, since you run around and shoot thing, use cover, etc... in third person.

*Bottom line is, Who cares what you call it?*

What they call it is just about marketing. You can see how it plays from the gameplay demos. Pretty clear we got some high-octane action going on. Shooter fans will see that and know it's the kind of game they like. RPG fans might overlook ME3 during that same add, but when browsing gamespot or whatever for new RPGs might stumble across it. Or maybe they thought they could win more stuff at E3 as an RPG. I don't know. Who cares?