96 réponses à ce sujet

[Father_Jerusalem]

So in ME3, we are flying a "repurposed" Normandy SR2.

A ship built by Cerberus, paid for by Cerberus, and staffed with Cerberus crew. Yet now, it's an Alliance vessel. The Alliance did not pay for the SR2, it's not their ship.

They flat out shipjacked the SR2 from Cerberus.

You want a reason why Cerberus is hunting Shepard down? Well there's a pretty darn good one right there. Yes, bringing Shepard back to life cost them 3 billon credits, but that's a pittance in comparison to what it cost them to build the SR2, and Shepard just... hands it over to the Alliance? Yeah, I'd be pissed too. 

Not to mention upgrades like the Thanix Cannon - a proprietary Turian design, now in Alliance hands. Or the Multicore Shielding - a design pioneered by the Quarians. How about the Advanced mineral scanner or Heavy ship armor - both of which were Cerberus designs as well. All of these upgrades are now in the hands of the Alliance, and I know I never heard Garrus say "Oh by the way, feel free to hand over top secret weapons technology to the Alliance when you're done with it". 

Say what you will about Cerberus being terrorists and murderers (no to terrorists, yes to murderers, by the way), but at least they don't go around shipjacking people.

[Bad King]

Except Cerberus is part of the Alliance, has been all along. DUN! DUN! DUUUN!!!

[eye basher]

your talking about the alliance who made cerberus in the first place for that very reason among others.

[crimzontearz]

don't forget they also stole the designs of the cerberus weapons for the N7 line of weapon

look at them closely

[Parah_Salin]

...Do you work for BP or Halliburton?

[Bad King]

It's actually possible that Cerberus is indeed still a part of the Alliance. Zulu made an entire thread discussing it.

[Antivenger]

Nu-uh. Spoils of war. Stealing would imply Cerberus truly being part of and acting inside the SA's government.

Notice them trying to kill Shepard in ME3?

Modifié par Antivenger, 12 juin 2011 - 03:41 .

[JadeEffect]

Actually, yes Bad King is right. Cerberus once was an Alliance black operatives organization that went "rogue." For all we may know, Cerberus may still be Alliance, backed and funded by politicians and the Alliance themselves as long as Cerberus denies any ties to the Alliance.

Kind of funny how Cerberus has a lot of "former" Alliance military working for them. Jacob said something that always gets to me, he was once apart of the Corsair, a sect of the Alliance, "off the grid" kind of deal. A former "off the grid" soldier working for Cerberus seems too convient if you ask me.

[Phaedon]

You sir, need to open the closest book that is somewhat related to criminal justice and read the definitions of.

      1. Criminal party.

      2. Terrorism.

      3. Confiscation.

      4. Warrant.

Thank you, have a nice day.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Well if Cerberus is PART of the Alliance, 1. How can we be betraying the Alliance by working with them - as many people on these forums say we are, and 2. How can Cerberus' crimes not be, by default, the Alliances crimes?

Cerberus didn't kill Admiral Kahoku or set the Thresher Maw loose on Akuze or tortue Toombs - the Alliance did.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Phaedon wrote...

You sir, need to open the closest book that is somewhat related to criminal justice and read the definitions of.

      1. Criminal party.

      2. Terrorism.

      3. Confiscation.

      4. Warrant.

Thank you, have a nice day.

Show me the warrant.

Absolutely police organizations can seize assets belonging to drug dealers and terrorists and the like, but only with a valid warrant and a trial - but from what I've seen and heard, neither of those things happen, the Alliance simply "repurposes" the SR2.

[ElitePinecone]

Forfeited property due to crimes including murder and treason...

Cerberus isn't acknowledged as a legitimate organisation. It's black-listed by the Council and the Alliance.

The Normandy is fair game. Especially since Shepard might've handed it over (or been grudgingly forced to by Hackett)

[JadeEffect]

@Father_Jerusalem

Replay Mass Effect 1. Rear Admiral Kahoku said that Cerberus was once a part of the Alliance that gone rogue. He sends you this in a tranmission.

In ME2, Jacob said that Corsair was a secret part of the Alliance not many people knew about and what the people in the Corsair did fell outside Alliance jurisdiction, if caught Alliance can deny any involvement.

It was implied (atleast to me), that anything Cerberus did could be denied by the Alliance, stating that they have "gone rogue."

As long as Cerberus exists and the Alliance denies any ties to Cerberus, whatever crimes that occur can be attributed to Cerberus and not the Alliance.

[FluffyScarf]

So Shep will be thieving from the thieves?

Modifié par FluffyScarf, 12 juin 2011 - 03:49 .

[JadeEffect]

And Normandy SR was a product designed by the Alliance and Turians as a peace agreement if I remember. Don't know much about copyright law or if it applies to designs such as ship designs, but by right, the SR2 version would be Alliance by default, only with Cerberus tech.

[ElitePinecone]

JadeEffect wrote...
Replay Mass Effect 1. Rear Admiral Kahoku said that Cerberus was once a part of the Alliance that gone rogue. He sends you this in a tranmission.

This was retconned in ME2. 

Cerberus was founded by TIM outside of Alliance structures. They weren't a black-ops organisation that went rogue, that was true in ME but rejected by what the novels and ME2 stated. \\

There are high-ranking Alliance officials who are either directly Cerberus operatives or sympathetic to Cerberus, but they very clearly aren't the same thing. The mainstream Alliance leadership are very worried about Cerberus infiltration. 

Again, Cerberus wasn't founded as part of the Alliance. That was true in ME1, but has been disproven by the novels and ME2. 

[Bad King]

JadeEffect wrote...

@Father_Jerusalem

Replay Mass Effect 1. Rear Admiral Kahoku said that Cerberus was once a part of the Alliance that gone rogue. He sends you this in a tranmission.

In ME2, Jacob said that Corsair was a secret part of the Alliance not many people knew about and what the people in the Corsair did fell outside Alliance jurisdiction, if caught Alliance can deny any involvement.

It was implied (atleast to me), that anything Cerberus did could be denied by the Alliance, stating that they have "gone rogue."

As long as Cerberus exists and the Alliance denies any ties to Cerberus, whatever crimes that occur can be attributed to Cerberus and not the Alliance.

This makes sense. An example of the Alliance's dodgy doings would be eezo exposures: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/7375590

[Someone With Mass]

The Alliance have all right in the world to confiscate the Normandy, seeing how it belonged to a criminal organisation, and that it's based of their designs.

Think of it as a copyright claim.

[JadeEffect]

ElitePinecone wrote...

JadeEffect wrote...
Replay Mass Effect 1. Rear Admiral Kahoku said that Cerberus was once a part of the Alliance that gone rogue. He sends you this in a tranmission.

This was retconned in ME2. 

Cerberus was founded by TIM outside of Alliance structures. They weren't a black-ops organisation that went rogue, that was true in ME but rejected by what the novels and ME2 stated.

There are high-ranking Alliance officials who are either directly Cerberus operatives or sympathetic to Cerberus, but they very clearly aren't the same thing. The mainstream Alliance leadership are very worried about Cerberus infiltration. 

Again, Cerberus wasn't founded as part of the Alliance. That was true in ME1, but has been disproven by the novels and ME2. 

Thanks for clarifying, it's been awhile since I've read the books.  Maybe it's time to dust them off and re-read them.

[eye basher]

actually it was cerberus who told the alliance to make the normandy so humans could learn how turians build ships.

[Bad King]

ElitePinecone wrote...

JadeEffect wrote...
Replay Mass Effect 1. Rear Admiral Kahoku said that Cerberus was once a part of the Alliance that gone rogue. He sends you this in a tranmission.

This was retconned in ME2. 

Cerberus was founded by TIM outside of Alliance structures. They weren't a black-ops organisation that went rogue, that was true in ME but rejected by what the novels and ME2 stated.

There are high-ranking Alliance officials who are either directly Cerberus operatives or sympathetic to Cerberus, but they very clearly aren't the same thing. The mainstream Alliance leadership are very worried about Cerberus infiltration. 

Again, Cerberus wasn't founded as part of the Alliance. That was true in ME1, but has been disproven by the novels and ME2. 

Just because it has independent origins to the Alliance doesn't mean that Cerberus couldn't have merged with the Alliance later. BioWare for example wasn't always making EA games, they are now. The Alliance may have seen the potensial in TIM's organisation and proposed that TIM's organisation would become a part of the Alliance and would in return receive resources and protection from high ranking Alliance officials.

Also the codex is Alliance made, so any info you get from there about Cerberus will likely be Alliance propaganda (trying to cover up Cerberus's links with the Alliance).

Modifié par Bad King, 12 juin 2011 - 04:01 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The Alliance have all right in the world to confiscate the Normandy, seeing how it belonged to a criminal organisation, and that it's based of their designs.

Think of it as a copyright claim.

Based off of, but also heavily modified. Even the base SR2 is demonstrably different than the SR1, to say nothing of the SR2 after all of the upgrades - which the Alliance now possesses, top secret Quarian, Turian, Asari, and Drell technology that they have no claim to.

As well.... what happened to the Cerberus staff of the SR2? Sure Shepard belongs on trial, he/she DID kill 300,000 Batarians - but what about Ken and Gabby? Kelly? Chakwas? The cook? Are they all being held in Alliance prisons?

Hmmm.

[Bad King]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

The Alliance have all right in the world to confiscate the Normandy, seeing how it belonged to a criminal organisation, and that it's based of their designs.

Think of it as a copyright claim.

As well.... what happened to the Cerberus staff of the SR2? Sure Shepard belongs on trial, he/she DID kill 300,000 Batarians - but what about Ken and Gabby? Kelly? Chakwas? The cook? Are they all being held in Alliance prisons?

Hmmm.

It's possible that Shepard allows most of the Cerberus crew to leave before returning to earth so that they aren't imprisoned by the Alliance.

Modifié par Bad King, 12 juin 2011 - 04:04 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

Bad King wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

The Alliance have all right in the world to confiscate the Normandy, seeing how it belonged to a criminal organisation, and that it's based of their designs.

Think of it as a copyright claim.

As well.... what happened to the Cerberus staff of the SR2? Sure Shepard belongs on trial, he/she DID kill 300,000 Batarians - but what about Ken and Gabby? Kelly? Chakwas? The cook? Are they all being held in Alliance prisons?

Hmmm.

It's possible that Shepard allows most of the Cerberus crew to leave before returning to earth so that they aren't imprisoned by the Alliance.

I hope so. I liked Ken and Gabby. I'm totally a Ken/Gabby shipper.

[Phaedon]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
Show me the warrant.

Absolutely police organizations can seize assets belonging to drug dealers and terrorists and the like, but only with a valid warrant and a trial - but from what I've seen and heard, neither of those things happen, the Alliance simply "repurposes" the SR2.

You want a warrant?

My arrest warrant here orders me to arrest all Cerberus operatives, as well as disarm them, by all types of munitions or generally anything that could be used as a weapon, such as an armoured vehicle or a battleship.

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to speak to an attorney, and to have an attorney present during any questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for you at government expense.

Now let me put you these omni-cuffs.