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Mass Effect's rank on the all time great Sci-Fi list


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#26
Had-to-say

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moneycashgeorge wrote...

diskoh wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

diskoh wrote...

Star Wars is not sci-fi. It's a fantasy series set in space.

Your opinion on whether it is sci-fi or sci-fan, but to the vast majority it is sci-fi, so don't start with the "You're wrong" posts ;)


Consider this a YOU'RE WRONG POST.


Anyone who is familiar with the fundmental differences between Sci-Fi and Fantasy knows that Star Wars is 100% fantasy. The idea that Sci-Fi is defined by the setting of outer space or being "futuristic" in aesthetic is nonsense.

Star Wars makes no effort to explain anything at all in its universe. There is no kind of internal logic in Star Wars. Things exist simply to serve the story, which is how fantasy works. It is just as much a fantasy as Lord of the Rings.

Mass Effect on the other hand, is deeply rooted in logic. Its not hardcore sci-fi, but its pretty close, IMO. Or Mass Effect 1 was atleast.


So what is so fantasy about Star Wars?

#27
Demigod

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All of it? the force = magic, ancient order of knight. faceless enemies in armour.

He has a point to be honest with the original films but when the slightest aspect was introduced to explain one part of Star wars (midiclorians) the fans hated it. Id still class it a light scifi especially if you addin the extended universe but i can see why some wouldn't from the argument given

#28
Whatever42

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The Foundation novels are a good example of very futuristic science fiction. It tries to base everything in plausible, explainable science. It looks at technology and tries to understand how that technology would influence the evolution of human society and humans in general. Sure, its still all about the story and the characters but the science in science fiction is the 3rd leg of the work.

Fantasy is all about building a fantastical world. Sure, it still has laws to which it needs to be consistent but its not really the focus and the "magic" really doesn't need to be understood or an integral part of things.

Take Blade Runner and the examination of self-awareness in machines. Look how it explores how humans react to these self-aware machines. Is there any similar exploration in Star Wars? No, because Star Wars is more about the development of a fantastical world and mythology. If you listen to interviews with Lucas, he's all about the mythology.

Mass Effect is a little odd. It does explore the science and its ramification. It doesn't really cover new ground - it borrows a lot (a homage to other works) but its there. However, it also has the fantasy elements. This creates some interesting discussions around here. Like 3 blind men using touch to explore an elephant: one feels the trunk and thinks its a snake, the other feels the leg and thinks its a tree, the 3rd feels tail and thinks its a brush, etc.

#29
Had-to-say

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If you combine "anthropic principle" with the idea of a "multiverse" along with "infinite monkey theorem", the ideas in a galaxy far far way become beyond logical; actually certain! But I am being a smart ass.

Modifié par Had-to-say, 12 juin 2011 - 06:32 .


#30
The Spamming Troll

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star wars isnt sci fi???

yeah right and pluto isnt a planet.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 12 juin 2011 - 05:58 .


#31
RPGamer13

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There's really only three things sci-fi related that interest me:

Star Wars (purely for the lightsabers)

Ghost In The Shell: Major Kusanagi is awesome. And in the show, and the english version of the second movie only available in Europe, is voiced by one of my all time favorites: Mary Elizabeth McGlynn.

Mass Effect: Jennifer Hale and asari... enough said.

Modifié par RPGamer13, 12 juin 2011 - 06:00 .


#32
Aedan_Cousland

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I think it still too soon to rank it.

We've only seen two parts of the trilogy, so it all depends on how everything is wrapped up in ME3.

#33
Skilled Seeker

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The Spamming Troll wrote...

star wars isnt sci fi???

yeah right and pluto isnt a planet.

lol it's not. You fail.

#34
moneycashgeorge

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Here is my Sci-Fi list. I'm sure that there are many great Sci-Fi books that are excluded, because I have unfortunately not gotten around to reading many.

1. 2001: A Space Odyssey. The perfect sci-fi film. Most likely will never be topped. I watch this about 4-5 times a year. My second favorite film behind the marginally better Apocalypse Now.

2. Blade Runner. Really a masterful film. There's so much to find in it, so much ambiguity. IMO the best film ever about the illusions are absurdity of life and existence. I think its incredible that Blade Runner and 2001 are still the best looking movies ever after so many years. Just goes to show how far in the wrong direction effects have gone. I weep for a world that thinks Avatar looks great when movies like these exist.

3. Gattaca. One of the most underrated movies ever, IMO. I truly believe that in 20 years, this will be practically a documentary. And isn't that what a great Sci-Fi should be? Something that predicts and critiques the future before it arrives? Its also filled with so many themes, so much imagery and symbolism, so much despair and so much hope, and some magnificent writing and performances.

4. Brave New World. The scariest book i've ever read, about the future of human engineering. I still have nightmares about it many years later. Science is really a terrifying thing in many ways, books like this make me glad to live when I do, because I fear that the Brave New World will one day be all too real.

5. Ghost in the Shell. Where does electronics end and the brain begin? Is the Soul more than code? Are we all just ghosts in a shell? So many questions in the film, a revolutionary work.

6. The Matrix. Yes the Matrix is derivative in many ways, but its central premise is, IMO, highly original. It takes the illusory universe to the next step. Its all a simulation, that idea rocked the world back in 1999. Combine that with revolutionary effects, top notch martial arts, and a brilliant combination of western sci-fi action with buddhist and ancient greek philosophy. This movie has more to it than most give it credit for.

7. Battlestar Galactica: A stunningly dark and honest study of mankind in the face of the ultimate desperation, as well as a continuation of many of the themes introduced in Blade Runner. IMO the best sci-fi series ever. For full disclosure I've never watched Star Trek TOS, though I hear its very good. I doubt its this good though.

I do love Mass Effect, and i think that its the best cohesive universe ever created. Better than Star Wars by far thats for sure. To be totally honest, I think that the constantly praised Star Wars in pretty bad. The thing many people forget is that its just a fantasy series for children. I'm talking about the original trilogy of course. I try not to even acknowledge the abortion that is the prequel trilogy. But Mass Effect probably can't compete with film and literary sci-fi masterpieces. NOr does it have to.

#35
onelifecrisis

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moneycashgeorge wrote...

diskoh wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

diskoh wrote...

Star Wars is not sci-fi. It's a fantasy series set in space.

Your opinion on whether it is sci-fi or sci-fan, but to the vast majority it is sci-fi, so don't start with the "You're wrong" posts ;)


Consider this a YOU'RE WRONG POST.


Anyone who is familiar with the fundmental differences between Sci-Fi and Fantasy knows that Star Wars is 100% fantasy. The idea that Sci-Fi is defined by the setting of outer space or being "futuristic" in aesthetic is nonsense.

Star Wars makes no effort to explain anything at all in its universe. There is no kind of internal logic in Star Wars. Things exist simply to serve the story, which is how fantasy works. It is just as much a fantasy as Lord of the Rings.

Mass Effect on the other hand, is deeply rooted in logic. Its not hardcore sci-fi, but its pretty close, IMO. Or Mass Effect 1 was atleast.


Yeah. Mass Effect's space wizards are based on pure logic, but Star Wars' Jedis are total fantasy.

Don't be daft. They're both fantasy space operas.

#36
Had-to-say

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The Spamming Troll wrote...

star wars isnt sci fi???

yeah right and pluto isnt a planet.


The idea he is trying to make is that the science in Star Wars isn't sound.  It has no basis in our universe but it just might in the multiverse.

Real life quantum science may not be rational at all. Man has the ability to control matter with his mind via untangible forces. This isn't science fiction it is indeed science fact.
 
We humans live in the third dimension but who lives in the foruth?
Look at this:

And this:

Modifié par Had-to-say, 12 juin 2011 - 06:12 .


#37
78stonewobble

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I still include star wars in sci fi... The sci in most fiction amounts pretty much reduced to "magic" anyway.

#38
BubbleSauce

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1. X-Men
2. Mass Effect
3. StarCraft
4. Ghost in the Shell
5. Blade Runner
6. Doctor Who
7. Firefly
8. Alien
9. Starship Troopers
10. Terminator

#39
Whatever42

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Actually, we all live in 4 dimensions; we all travel through space-time and experience the curvature of space-time. We can't see the curvature of space-time directly, of course, be we feel it and can measure it easily. Just saying. :-)

#40
CroGamer002

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I have to watch/play at least 10 interesting Sci-Fi's to make top 10 list.

#41
eternalnightmare13

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Had-to-say wrote...

After 10 hours worth of story between two games I think we can make an honest assessment of the games quality of story. I rank it pretty high. I wonder would the game be treated with much more respect it it were a motion picture.


Probably not, because the story isn't all that original nor are the characters.  I'm not talking the biotics or tech powers, but the characteristics of Udina, Anderson, Hackett, and etc are rather old stereotypes.  The backstabbing politican, the square jawed stoic military commanders.  It's fun in a game, but dull in a movie.  If the ME storyline were a movie it'd either be a popcorn summer block buster or a SyFy Channel D-movie.  Fun, but easily forgetable and not worthy of a Top Ten list.

Like someone else said, game devs have a very long way to go in terms of storytelling.

#42
CroGamer002

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moneycashgeorge wrote...


1. 2001: A Space Odyssey. The perfect sci-fi film. Most likely will never be topped. I watch this about 4-5 times a year. My second favorite film behind the marginally better Apocalypse Now.


You're kidding?

An absolute nothing happening on screen is number 1 Sci-Fi for you?!

#43
onelifecrisis

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Mesina2 wrote...

moneycashgeorge wrote...


1. 2001: A Space Odyssey. The perfect sci-fi film. Most likely will never be topped. I watch this about 4-5 times a year. My second favorite film behind the marginally better Apocalypse Now.


You're kidding?

An absolute nothing happening on screen is number 1 Sci-Fi for you?!




Some people love it when nothing happens. They probably like fishing, too.

#44
Bailyn242

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 I hate trying to rank things like this, especially across so many potential media types. It always ends up being what is on my mind t the moment. That said, the bulk of my top 10 are books or authors.

My Top 10 as of right now:[list=1][*]David Weber - I've been on a binge of late and I've really enjoyed the bulk of his stories. Honor Harrington and Path of the Fury especially.[*]Asimov - Collected works[*]Dune - The first 3 novels it got irritating at God-Emperor.[*]Firefly[*]Pournelle and Niven - Co-writers of Footfall and Mote in God's Eye[*]Falkenburg's Mercenary Legion - More Pournelle last couple co-written with Stirling[*]Farscape
[*]Enders Game[*]Philip K. Dick[*]BSG (21st century edition)

Modifié par Bailyn242, 12 juin 2011 - 08:29 .


#45
Skilled Seeker

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eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Had-to-say wrote...

After 10 hours worth of story between two games I think we can make an honest assessment of the games quality of story. I rank it pretty high. I wonder would the game be treated with much more respect it it were a motion picture.


Probably not, because the story isn't all that original nor are the characters.  I'm not talking the biotics or tech powers, but the characteristics of Udina, Anderson, Hackett, and etc are rather old stereotypes.  The backstabbing politican, the square jawed stoic military commanders.  It's fun in a game, but dull in a movie.  If the ME storyline were a movie it'd either be a popcorn summer block buster or a SyFy Channel D-movie.  Fun, but easily forgetable and not worthy of a Top Ten list.

Like someone else said, game devs have a very long way to go in terms of storytelling.


Have you played Assassin's Creed? Brilliant original sci fi story right there.

#46
moneycashgeorge

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onelifecrisis wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

moneycashgeorge wrote...


1. 2001: A Space Odyssey. The perfect sci-fi film. Most likely will never be topped. I watch this about 4-5 times a year. My second favorite film behind the marginally better Apocalypse Now.


You're kidding?

An absolute nothing happening on screen is number 1 Sci-Fi for you?!




Some people love it when nothing happens. They probably like fishing, too.




NOTHING!? What movie did you watch? I watched the story of all of human existence, the story of all of science, of the quest for meaning and our ultimate destiny, told masterfully through the greatest cinematography and special effects ever created. I saw the greatest artist of the last 100 years (at least) perfect the medium of film and create the apex of an entire genre. I saw the most accurate depiction of space travel yet put to film. I could go on and on, more happens on screen in 2001 than happens in, i don't know say, 90% of all other movies combined.

Learn something about philosophy, symbolism, film making, and science, and then tell me nothing happens in 2001. And i hate fishing.

#47
BubbleSauce

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Skilled Seeker wrote...

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Had-to-say wrote...

After 10 hours worth of story between two games I think we can make an honest assessment of the games quality of story. I rank it pretty high. I wonder would the game be treated with much more respect it it were a motion picture.


Probably not, because the story isn't all that original nor are the characters.  I'm not talking the biotics or tech powers, but the characteristics of Udina, Anderson, Hackett, and etc are rather old stereotypes.  The backstabbing politican, the square jawed stoic military commanders.  It's fun in a game, but dull in a movie.  If the ME storyline were a movie it'd either be a popcorn summer block buster or a SyFy Channel D-movie.  Fun, but easily forgetable and not worthy of a Top Ten list.

Like someone else said, game devs have a very long way to go in terms of storytelling.


Have you played Assassin's Creed? Brilliant original sci fi story right there.


Are you being sarcastic? It's hard to tell...

#48
Gatt9

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Mass Effect?

Pretty much at the bottom if we're talking all Science Fiction.

Dune, Star Wars, Star Trek, Battlestar, Dr. Who, Alien, Total Recall, Matrix, Lost, X-files, Pern, and on and on, ME doesn't compare.

Honestly, the first one's story had a glimmer in it. The second one was a rewriting of Dragon Age Origin's recruiting plotline, the third one is a rewriting of ME2's rewriting of DAO's recruiting plotline.

Is it well told? Sure. But it's really recycling the same story for 3 different games in 2 years.

#49
BigBody26

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Has no one else pointed this out? The OP claimed Mass Effect is in his "top ten, if not top five" and then goes onto list his top 10 and Mass Effect is no where listed. Say what?!

#50
No Snakes Alive

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I'd put it right up there with Alien and Blade Runner in my own top 3. May not be as influential or important as stuff like Star Wars, but I personally like it a lot better.