136 réponses à ce sujet

[onelifecrisis]

moneycashgeorge wrote...

Learn something about philosophy, symbolism, film making, and science, and then tell me nothing happens in 2001.

In other words, it's pretentious. A well told story does not require a formal education before it can be understood. If I need to do several years worth of reading before I can understand a movie that's 2 hours long, it's a bad movie.

But I'm talking in general terms. I actually do know something of philosophy and science (not so much about symbolism) and think I followed 2001 okay. IIRC, some apes were... affected... by a monolith, and then they turned into humans. A long time later the monolith re-appeared and gave an astronaut an acid trip. If something happened in-between those two events, I must have missed it.

[Deejtage]

This topic needs more Alien/Aliens in it

[Had-to-say]

BigBody26 wrote...

Has no one else pointed this out? The OP claimed Mass Effect is in his "top ten, if not top five" and then goes onto list his top 10 and Mass Effect is no where listed. Say what?!

I would drop #10 off the list and place Mass Effect squarely at 5. The games cover a lot of sci-fi material in one form or another. 

[tonnactus]

To be in that list it has to be science fiction first...(but okay,Star trek also didnt belong in that list)

[hexaligned]

1. Dune (the first 4 books anyways) both the movie/mini series are watchable as well.
2. 2001/2010
3. BSG (the newer one)
4. Fallout (the original two)
5. Wing Commander series

For me ME falls more into the straight up fantasy category, but it wouldn't have made the list anyways. ALso The Dark Tower series should be in the number 3 slot, but it has a lot of elements that aren't really sci-fi,(or just bad) so I left it out.  I have a love-hate relationship with that series.

Modifié par relhart, 12 juin 2011 - 08:28 .

[JeffZero]

I'll have to give this some thought and get back to you in a bit. It's good to see a lot of love for good television series such as BSG, Trek, Stargate and the like.

[Whatever42]

onelifecrisis wrote...

moneycashgeorge wrote...

Learn something about philosophy, symbolism, film making, and science, and then tell me nothing happens in 2001.

In other words, it's pretentious. A well told story does not require a formal education before it can be understood. If I need to do several years worth of reading before I can understand a movie that's 2 hours long, it's a bad movie.

But I'm talking in general terms. I actually do know something of philosophy and science (not so much about symbolism) and think I followed 2001 okay. IIRC, some apes were... affected... by a monolith, and then they turned into humans. A long time later the monolith re-appeared and gave an astronaut an acid trip. If something happened in-between those two events, I must have missed it.

The trilogy makes more sense. It's slow but that describes most of Auther Clarke's work. 

[CroGamer002]

moneycashgeorge wrote...


NOTHING!? What movie did you watch? I watched the story of all of human existence, the story of all of science, of the quest for meaning and our ultimate destiny, told masterfully through the greatest cinematography and special effects ever created. I saw the greatest artist of the last 100 years (at least) perfect the medium of film and create the apex of an entire genre. I saw the most accurate depiction of space travel yet put to film. I could go on and on, more happens on screen in 2001 than happens in, i don't know say, 90% of all other movies combined.

Learn something about philosophy, symbolism, film making, and science, and then tell me nothing happens in 2001. And i hate fishing.

All I saw is, how Confused Matthew put it: Crap floating in space.

In entire movie, with exception of Hal, nothing happens.

[Had-to-say]

tonnactus wrote...

To be in that list it has to be science fiction first...(but okay,Star trek also didnt belong in that list)

Star Trek are you kidding me.The body of work of Star Trek is great. I wouldn't want to live in a world without it. 

Modifié par Had-to-say, 12 juin 2011 - 08:28 .

[tonnactus]

Had-to-say wrote...


Star Trek are you kidding me.

No.Something like Spock couldnt exist in a real science fiction game(and the same is true for all other alien/human mixes).Thats a fact,not an opinion.

Modifié par tonnactus, 12 juin 2011 - 08:35 .

[Whatever42]

tonnactus wrote...

Had-to-say wrote...


Star Trek are you kidding me.

No.Something like Spock couldnt exist in a real science fiction game(and the same is true for all other alien/human mixes).Thats a fact,not an opinion.

They explained that in a ST:NG episode. Most of the humanoid races in the galaxy have a common genetic history.

But let's face it - ST was invented in the 1960s by a guy who described it as wagon train in space. It was never originated as serious sci fi.

[Apollo Starflare]

This is incredibly difficult, certainly to fit into an ordered top ten. I may have to chuck ten things down here in no particular order.

ME is up there though, very few other sci fi games can touch it as a trilogy.

*note* This won't include books because then it would just be silly hard to think up a list.

Original Star Wars Trilogy
Mass Effect Trilogy
Deus Ex 1
Firefly&Serenity
Farscape
Star Trek OS
Twin Peaks
Blade Runner
Metropolis
BSG (the new one)

No no no no no! That is a completely insignificant representation of a list of all time great sci fi. Be it my favourites or in general. /futiletask.

[JeffZero]

I'm not including books either. I'd really need a separate list for that. Throwing television series, movies and games together is already a monumental task for someone like me.

10. Star Trek: The Next Generation;
9. Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country;
8. Battlestar Galactica (2003);
7. Farscape;
6. Mass Effect;
5. Star Wars (Original Trilogy);
4. Stargate SG-1;
3. Xenogears;
2. Babylon 5;
1. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

Modifié par JeffZero, 12 juin 2011 - 11:56 .

[moneycashgeorge]

Mesina2 wrote...

moneycashgeorge wrote...


NOTHING!? What movie did you watch? I watched the story of all of human existence, the story of all of science, of the quest for meaning and our ultimate destiny, told masterfully through the greatest cinematography and special effects ever created. I saw the greatest artist of the last 100 years (at least) perfect the medium of film and create the apex of an entire genre. I saw the most accurate depiction of space travel yet put to film. I could go on and on, more happens on screen in 2001 than happens in, i don't know say, 90% of all other movies combined.

Learn something about philosophy, symbolism, film making, and science, and then tell me nothing happens in 2001. And i hate fishing.

All I saw is, how Confused Matthew put it: Crap floating in space.

In entire movie, with exception of Hal, nothing happens.

I don't know why I even bother to humor someone who would degrade 2001, but I clicked your link and read/watched some of "confused matthew"'s reviews. Unsurprisingly he lives up to his namesake, and is one of the worst film critics I've ever come across.

The amount of meaning in 2001: A space Odyssey is staggering. Entire books have been written on analyzing the film. This article barely scratches the surface http://en.wikipedia....A_Space_Odyssey

Please give up on watching movies. I fear that your money is contributing to the death of cinema.

[Rollingcabbage]

Well, in no particular order, my favorite.

- Warhammer 40k. It's so brutal and so demented, yet it never overpowers you and instead compels you to go deeper and deeper; the universe of 40k draws you in and invests you in fiction that has barely been tapped with its diversity and versatility.

Battlestar Galactica (re-imagined series). Took sci fi in a much more mature direction, moving away from all the Star Trek 're-hashes' that permeated sci fi, lumping the genre in with the 'geeks'. It also explores themes of faith and spirituality in a way that makes it relevant and insightful in a post-modern, cynical social milieu. It wasn't always consistent, but the series is easily one of the best.

Mass Effect - Bioware have created an extremely detailed universe in a short amount of time, that has a lot of depth and a lot of potential. It will be interesting to see how they explore it further in the future. It's mature, it's compelling and the Reapers are truly a terrifying idea. I like how it explores ideas of contemporary politics, racism, faith and humanity. A lot of the core themes and ideas may have been done to death before, but the Mass Effect universe does it well enough that it stands on its own and is excitingly fresh.

- Alien. Invasion/rape. Perversion. Corruption. Greed. All things which are idealistically 'alien' to human minds, yet so intimately related to. This is why the idea of the xenomorph is so terrifying and still stands the test of time. Not to mention the art which inspires Alien is some of the best and most thought provoking sexual art ever created.

- Bladerunner. I have an ambivalent relationship with the film. It asks many questions and never really answers any of them, then teases me with ideas and questions that aren't articulated in the film. It looks directly into the soul of humanity and no other fiction has managed to capture the raw emotion of human existence quite the way Ridly Scott did. It's dark, dirty, lonely, uncertain, strange and familiar. Yet, it has beauty and hope. Hallmarks of a masterpiece?

[Anathemic]

You people disgust me (joking, but seriously), a sci-fi discussion, nay a sci-fi ranking discussion, and not once is Ender's Game or its series mentioned? What the hell is wrong with you people?!?!

But you guys do get credit for StarCraft and Battlestar Galactica.

Modifié par Anathemic, 13 juin 2011 - 07:15 .

[Spatchmo]

You know, I actually hate 2001 and even I can see it's contribution to sci-fi and cinema in general. The premise behind it is amazing, I just didn't like the execution. It is often on critic's "Greatest Movies of All Time" list, and that aside, it has a 96% on rottentomatoes:
http://www.rottentom..._space_odyssey/
Anyway, regarding my favorite sci fi:

#1 The Terminator Universe that includes 1, 2 and the Sarah Connor Chronicles
#2 Alien / Aliens
#3 The Phantasy Star series, still hoping for remakes that do that story justice
#4 X-Men
#5 Star Wars Episodes 4 - 6
#6 Mass Effect

There are other stories in the sci-fi genre that I enjoy, but those 6 are the ones that stick with me the most.

[Cf UnrealKiller]

Like Sci-fi universe, or specific storyline (tv show, movie, game series, etc)?

For universe it's Buffyverse, Star Wars, or Mass Effect. For best specific storyline:

1. Battlestar Galactica (new)
2. Star Wars Original Trilogy
3. Angel
4. Firefly
5. Buffy the Vampire Slayer
6. Futurama
7. Star Trek: TNG
8. Biowares KOTOR games
9. Dr. Who
10. Mass Effect

Yes, I'm a Joss fanboy.

[sp0ck 06]

Mesina2 wrote...

moneycashgeorge wrote...


1. 2001: A Space Odyssey. The perfect sci-fi film. Most likely will never be topped. I watch this about 4-5 times a year. My second favorite film behind the marginally better Apocalypse Now.

You're kidding?

An absolute nothing happening on screen is number 1 Sci-Fi for you?!

/facepalm

2001 is one of the greatest movies, let alone sci-fi movies, ever created.  Oh no, it doesn't have giant transforming CGI robots head butting, or slo mo shots of the latest sexy babe.  It's only just about, you, mankind's place in the universe and the nature of our existence.  booooring

[Had-to-say]

I didn't put 2001 in my top ten list but I can surely see it in my top twenty. I adore the movie. I saw it for the first time last year and man was I blown away. I can easily see why some might call it the greatest sci-fi movie ever.

The film does so much with limited dialogue. It showcases the many triumphs of human achievement. I think the philosophy in Ghost in the Shell starts right where 2001 stops. I can say I didn't fully understand the ending of 2001. To me that was a weak point, but it's a excellent film.

[Demigod]

Had-to-say wrote...

I didn't put 2001 in my top ten list but I can surely see it in my top twenty. I adore the movie. I saw it for the first time last year and man was I blown away. I can easily see why some might call it the greatest sci-fi movie ever.

The film does so much with limited dialogue. It showcases the many triumphs of human achievement. I think the philosophy in Ghost in the Shell starts right where 2001 stops. I can say I didn't fully understand the ending of 2001. To me that was a weak point, but it's a excellent film.

I love ghost in a shell but I HATE with an undieing passion 2001 (the film Ive never read the book). Though I actually like 2010. 2001 does have amazing ideas and philosophy It is just to damn slow and I didnt care for anyone on the ship, having said that I have never liked any Kubrik film,I even have to be in to mood for  Dr Stranglove which is imho Peter Sellers best film, so that should show how subjective these lists are. 

[DerdarDante]

Mass Effect will be my number 1 Sci-fi saga, atleast until they fall flat on story or ideas. This is simply because i'm very excited for the climax in the third chapter, and i'm impatient about the effects of my choices.

Oh, and i like violent, bloody Sci-Fi's. So i REALLY hope Mass Effect 3 will have some awesome gore.

Every other Sci-fi piece i've played, watched or read all fall short of the second place. I might place Star Wars and Dead Space before the others just because i love Darth Vader and Necromorphs.

[sp0ck 06]

Demigod wrote...

Had-to-say wrote...

I didn't put 2001 in my top ten list but I can surely see it in my top twenty. I adore the movie. I saw it for the first time last year and man was I blown away. I can easily see why some might call it the greatest sci-fi movie ever.

The film does so much with limited dialogue. It showcases the many triumphs of human achievement. I think the philosophy in Ghost in the Shell starts right where 2001 stops. I can say I didn't fully understand the ending of 2001. To me that was a weak point, but it's a excellent film.

I love ghost in a shell but I HATE with an undieing passion 2001 (the film Ive never read the book). Though I actually like 2010. 2001 does have amazing ideas and philosophy It is just to damn slow and I didnt care for anyone on the ship, having said that I have never liked any Kubrik film,I even have to be in to mood for  Dr Stranglove which is imho Peter Sellers best film, so that should show how subjective these lists are. 

You should read the book.  I felt much the same way about 2001 when I first saw it: that it had a lot of interesting ideas and beautiful shots, but seemed messy.  Arthur C. Clarke (the author of 2001) and Kubrick worked together on the both projects.  Kubrick said the book was meant to be a companion piece to teh film, they both came out at the same time.  It's a short, easy read and a great book in its own right.  After reading it, I felt completely differently about the film and understood it 100% more.

[Had-to-say]

Demigod wrote...

Had-to-say wrote...

I didn't put 2001 in my top ten list but I can surely see it in my top twenty. I adore the movie. I saw it for the first time last year and man was I blown away. I can easily see why some might call it the greatest sci-fi movie ever.

The film does so much with limited dialogue. It showcases the many triumphs of human achievement. I think the philosophy in Ghost in the Shell starts right where 2001 stops. I can say I didn't fully understand the ending of 2001. To me that was a weak point, but it's a excellent film.

I love ghost in a shell but I HATE with an undieing passion 2001 (the film Ive never read the book). Though I actually like 2010. 2001 does have amazing ideas and philosophy It is just to damn slow and I didnt care for anyone on the ship, having said that I have never liked any Kubrik film,I even have to be in to mood for  Dr Stranglove which is imho Peter Sellers best film, so that should show how subjective these lists are. 

If you go to the beach, watch a thunderstorm form and come ashore do you think it's beautiful? If you can get this, you can get Kubrik.

Modifié par Had-to-say, 13 juin 2011 - 05:19 .

[NobodyofConsequence]

moneycashgeorge wrote...

diskoh wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

diskoh wrote...

Star Wars is not sci-fi. It's a fantasy series set in space.

Your opinion on whether it is sci-fi or sci-fan, but to the vast majority it is sci-fi, so don't start with the "You're wrong" posts

Consider this a YOU'RE WRONG POST.

Anyone who is familiar with the fundmental differences between Sci-Fi and Fantasy knows that Star Wars is 100% fantasy. The idea that Sci-Fi is defined by the setting of outer space or being "futuristic" in aesthetic is nonsense.

Star Wars makes no effort to explain anything at all in its universe. There is no kind of internal logic in Star Wars. Things exist simply to serve the story, which is how fantasy works. It is just as much a fantasy as Lord of the Rings.

Mass Effect on the other hand, is deeply rooted in logic. Its not hardcore sci-fi, but its pretty close, IMO. Or Mass Effect 1 was atleast.

I've always drawn a distinction between Sci-fi and Space Opera. 2001:A Space Odyssey is sci-fi, Star Wars is Space Opera. Mass Effect, along with things like Peter F Hamilton's works, for me straddle the two.

I'll have to disagree with you on LoTR btw - at least LoTR is internally consistent (books, this is) as an alternate mythological history of our universe, based off a single premise. For me, that has more in common with the structural elements of sci-fi.

While I'm always wary of semantic arguments, I think you can mount a strong case that popular usage of a phrase such as 'sci-fi' in reference to things like Star Wars does not invalidate its description as Science Fantasy or Space Opera by people with a different level of exposure to nuances within the overall genre.