494 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

Chewin3 wrote...

I'm fairly disappointed at this feminist blogger. I thought her blog would be valid and eminent, but it was not.

Okay, I get that she complains over something she doesn’t like what she sees, and this being oversexual females showing their cleavage. This annoys her very much, so she makes an article highlighting every single example of sexism showing in ME2 with screenshots and point out all the ways it disgusts her. What the hell? So how would you want the women to stand in front of the camera?

It seems to me like there is no way for them to present their female characters without somehow, in your eyes, emphasizing their boobs. If they’re standing sideways? Boob shot. Looking up at them? Boob shot. Looking down? Boob shot. Are they in the middle of the screen? So are their boobs. Boob shot. Are they standing up straight? They’re pushing out their boobs. Boob shot. Leaning over? Boob shot as well. I understand complaints about what you call “boob perspective” and about shots that look down a character’s top, but looking at the variety of angles and poses you are condemning here, it would appear that the only safe shot would be as follows:

1. Standing straight, but not TOO straight.

2. Character looking straight at the screen, so as to avoid emphasizing the boobs via a side angle.

3. The camera angle running parallel to the ground, at a level somewhere
between the breasts and the top of the head, to avoid looking up at the
bottom or down at the tops of the breasts.

4. The character must be off-center, so that her breasts aren’t in the middle of the shot with her.

What I'm trying to say is, I just feel like there is no way they could have made their cut scenes fit the criteria you are giving without drastically reducing their available options.

Agreed.

People with a mindset like hers don't create sexism, but they certainly encourage it.

She tries to impose a "behavior code" of some sort for artists, when this is one of the things that has been causing sexism in the first place, and that we have been trying to get away from for decades.

[Siansonea]

I still think the easy solution is just to make all the menfolks sexier.

[Phaedon]

Les_Carver wrote...

No disrespect, but wundergeek sucks.
-First, if she wants to be taken seriously at least she should write with some protocol and solid arguments, she writes in such a lame way that is even annoying to read. She should also, in order to justify her wannabe feminist rant, prove that she's read something at a higher level than "Twilight", how about some actual feminist studies for starters? how about she proves she knows what she's talking about? does wundergeek even knows who Virginia Woolf is? I very much doubt it.

That is not valid.

She is as much a professional article writer as I am (as in, not at all), and yet you don't expect me to pop out awesome articles in the OPs of my threads do you?

Yes, I know that she says that she is a "half-assed writer", or at least I remember something like that, but since she is not a journalist or a book author, I think that this criticism is not valid. (See, I used valid, twice, doesn't that make my post far worse?) 

She has the right to post her opinion, and if she can't do that in a professional matter, then that's okay. Blogs are not for professionals.

Modifié par Phaedon, 12 juin 2011 - 10:01 .

[HTTP 404]

What type of feminist do you all think the author is?

http://www.suite101....feminism-a51502

Liberal Feminist : emphasis on individual equality

Socialist Feminist:  emphasis on societal equality

Radical Feminist:  tear down the patrirachal system

Third Wave Feminist:  personal empowerment

Ecofeminist:  draw paralells between nature and women

Black Feminist:  sexism and racism are intricately linked

now which one would make me a sandwich? but seriously though, a lot of females perpetuate the image of what a woman should be just as much as men. 

Men are also very much treated differently.  It isn't acceptable to talk about our feelings.  There is much more walks for breast cancer than there are for prostate cancer.  just saying, everyone is going to be treated differently in society and there will never be truly equality

Modifié par HTTP 404, 12 juin 2011 - 10:04 .

[ME-ParaShep]

The Big Bad Wolf wrote...

Is it me or do people really don't get it about the "sex sells" marketing strategy?

Now I gotta say this: that strategy works like a charm. Every freaking time. I hate it when people argue about this, as they don't seem to remember that. And also, some games have a targeted audience, and that is who they are trying to reach the most.


On top of that, "sex sells" works well with human nature.

No, they do understand the "sex sells" marketing strategy, but most of them disagree with it because it either doesn't correspond with realism nor does it fit in with the history of a character that was given a strong character and personality in his/her own right from the beginning. Some people do not like change nor are they willing to accept some changes if those changes make it through to the end. It's all about tastes and preferences and apparently a lot of people here on BSN have a very strong perspective on a diverse range of topics presented here. I personally am on the "neutral" side of the realism-----neutral-----sexy/aesthetic/casual appearance. As long as the attire or uniform does look like it fits in with the occasion and situation along with character personality (since character's should look how they are) then to me, that's fine. I'm sure many others feel the same way about their opinions as well.

[TheKillerAngel]

I think she would have a much stronger case if she relied on some academic texts though. I took a course on liberalism and its critics, and we had to read a bunch of feminist theory and whatnot, and I could actually cite arguments that rebut some of her criticisms of Bioware. One thing I've noticed is that she seems to be arguing for some sort of gender. In a way, she almost seems like an advocate for "masculizing" female characters. But there are plenty of feminist intellectuals who don't think that approach is right - men and women can have unique identities.

I tossed out most of my readings for that course (it the most difficult social science class I have ever taken) but I might still be able to download them from my course website.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 12 juin 2011 - 10:05 .

[Steingrimur Steingrimsson]

Agree wholeheartedly with the unneccessary amount of boob emphesis there was in ME2, BUT the only completely topless charater we saw in the game was Jacob and if he wasn't oversexualized in that scene, then I really, really, really don't know what is oversexualized. His suit was also, like Miranda's, fairly tight.
Most of the rest I found myself disagreeing on. All in all, I think there are way better places to look for sinners in this industry.

[Halfdan The Menace]

HTTP 404 wrote...

What type of feminist do you all think the author is?

http://www.suite101....feminism-a51502

Liberal Feminist : emphasis on individual equality

Socialist Feminist:  emphasis on societal equality

Radical Feminist:  tear down the patrirachal system

Third Wave Feminist:  personal empowerment

Ecofeminist:  draw paralells between nature and women

Black Feminist:  sexism and racism are intricately linked

now which one would make me a sandwich?

None, she's B!tch Feminist

[OriginalNameGuy]

I think this blogger is blinded by her ideology. Once I got to that collage about Samara I just stopped reading
completely ridiculous, total nitpicker. Do the characters have to be robotic and standing completely still? With the camera zoomed in on their face and nothing else?

Modifié par OriginalNameGuy, 12 juin 2011 - 10:09 .

[Les_Carver]

Phaedon wrote...

That is not valid.

She is as much a professional article writer as I am (as in, not at all), and yet you don't expect me to pop out awesome articles in the OPs of my threads do you?

Yes, I know that she says that she is a "half-assed writer", or at least I remember something like that, but since she is not a journalist or a book author, I think that this criticism is not valid. (See, I used valid, twice, doesn't that make my post far worse?) 

She has the right to post her opinion, and if she can't do that in a professional matter, then that's okay. Blogs are not for professionals.

Agree in a way, however, she expects to be taken seriously and has exteriorized her opinion in order to critizice something at a big scale, she's not talking about how bad is to eat too much sugar or something as trivial as that. She's bashing a whole studio, artists and people dedicated to a goal. That's why I'm saying that an acusation like that -if wanted to be taken seriously- must be inteligently elaborated. Maybe open for a debate, offering alternatives, prooving absolute knowledge of the matter, not personal feelings that lack of solidness. Not like that.

Cheers Phaedon

Modifié par Les_Carver, 12 juin 2011 - 10:08 .

[Phaedon]

HTTP 404 wrote...

What type of feminist do you all think the author is?

http://www.suite101....feminism-a51502

Liberal Feminist : emphasis on individual equality

Socialist Feminist:  emphasis on societal equality

Radical Feminist:  tear down the patrirachal system

Third Wave Feminist:  personal empowerment

Ecofeminist:  draw paralells between nature and women

Black Feminist:  sexism and racism are intricately linked

now which one would make me a sandwich? but seriously though, a lot of females perpetuate the image of what a woman should be just as much as men. 

Men are also very much treated differently.  It isn't acceptable to talk about our feelings.  There is much more walks for breast cancer than there are for prostate cancer.  just saying, everyone is going to be treated differently in society and there will never be truly equality

I think that this list is incorrect in many points, but what saddens me is seeing two ERs talking about biological inequality in the comments. These people shouldn't be allowed to graduate, no matter towards which gender sexism is directed towards.

Their mindset could be applied to racial biological inequality as well, which makes their stance all the more retarded.

Modifié par Phaedon, 12 juin 2011 - 10:07 .

[D.Kain]

Siansonea II wrote...

I still think the easy solution is just to make all the menfolks sexier.

Yes, put on some makeup on em, put em in catsuits wiht heels. Dont forget to make them less bulky!

Modifié par D.Kain, 12 juin 2011 - 10:09 .

[Schneidend]

There's really no "type" of feminism going on here.

The blogger is just...kind of an idiot.

[mopotter]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Also, why do women never complain about good looking guys in the media? You don't see men complaining as much as some women when it comes to the over-sexuality of the same gender. People want to see attractive people. This goes both ways.

Wouldn't it be more - why don't the guys complain about how they are represented?  As a women, she's complaining about the female characters because she's female.   I'd think guys would be the ones to complain about how the male characters are treated.

I've only seen the one shot of Jacob with his shirt off.  I've seen many shots of Miranda's butt and Samara's boobs.  I've seen Jacob in his armor, which might be form fitting but I don't remember anything as obvious as the female shots.  And I googled "Jacob from Mass effect".  Even then one of Miranda's butt was included.  

It's not the outfit so much as the camera angles they used.

[HTTP 404]

Phaedon wrote...

I think that this list is incorrect in many points, but what saddens me is seeing two ERs talking about biological inequality in the comments. These people shouldn't be allowed to graduate, no matter towards which gender sexism is directed towards.

Their mindset could be applied to racial biological inequality as well, which makes their stance all the more retarded.

thats the point.   Its sad to tear down any group "on top" (or so it seems) to make things equal.  It should be about empowering not degrading.

thats another thing.  A rich man is a rich man.  I don't see how majority of rich men or men in power actual empower me.

Modifié par HTTP 404, 12 juin 2011 - 10:13 .

[Schneidend]

mopotter wrote...


Wouldn't it be more - why don't the guys complain about how they are represented?  As a women, she's complaining about the female characters because she's female.   I'd think guys would be the ones to complain about how the male characters are treated.

Guys typically have the sense to realize mass media is not created with the intent to undermine their place in society. It's one of the feats we get at first level. Women have it on their list of bonus feats, but they have to actually choose it to take advantage.

Modifié par Schneidend, 12 juin 2011 - 10:15 .

[HTTP 404]

Not even Pac Man can escape this author's wrath.

"How dare you give Ms Pac Man make up!"

[Phaedon]

mopotter wrote...
Also, why do women never complain about good looking guys in the media? You don't see men complaining as much as some women when it comes to the over-sexuality of the same gender. People want to see attractive people. This goes both ways.

Wouldn't it be more - why don't the guys complain about how they are represented?  As a women, she's complaining about the female characters because she's female.   I'd think guys would be the ones to complain about how the male characters are treated.

I've only seen the one shot of Jacob with his shirt off.  I've seen many shots of Miranda's butt and Samara's boobs.  I've seen Jacob in his armor, which might be form fitting but I don't remember anything as obvious as the female shots.  And I googled "Jacob from Mass effect".  Even then one of Miranda's butt was included.  

It's not the outfit so much as the camera angles they used.

No, I don't think that's the issue, actually. There aren't many action movie, game or comic protagonists who aren't muscular and extremely confident.

You wont see too many people raging about Conan the Barbarian, though.

I think that the problem is that some people can't tell the difference between sexualization and sexism.

Modifié par Phaedon, 12 juin 2011 - 10:18 .

[Skilled Seeker]

mopotter wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Also, why do women never complain about good looking guys in the media? You don't see men complaining as much as some women when it comes to the over-sexuality of the same gender. People want to see attractive people. This goes both ways.

Wouldn't it be more - why don't the guys complain about how they are represented?  As a women, she's complaining about the female characters because she's female.   I'd think guys would be the ones to complain about how the male characters are treated.

I've only seen the one shot of Jacob with his shirt off.  I've seen many shots of Miranda's butt and Samara's boobs.  I've seen Jacob in his armor, which might be form fitting but I don't remember anything as obvious as the female shots.  And I googled "Jacob from Mass effect".  Even then one of Miranda's butt was included.  

It's not the outfit so much as the camera angles they used.

I take it you haven't seen Jacob's romance scene then where he takes off his shirt and the camera focuses on his body?

[Siansonea]

D.Kain wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I still think the easy solution is just to make all the menfolks sexier.

Yes, put on some makeup on em, put em in catsuits wiht heels. Dont forget to make them less bulky!

Some folks would LOVE this...but for me, send those boys to the gym, get them good haircuts, and keep the facial hair minimal. And put them in nice casual duds when they're hanging around in a non-combat environment (nothing silly though). And don't be afraid to let them show some skin every now and then.

[TheKillerAngel]

D.Kain wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I still think the easy solution is just to make all the menfolks sexier.

Yes, put on some makeup on em, put em in catsuits wiht heels. Dont forget to make them less bulky!

I propose the next male squadmate be modeled after the members of TOKIO HOTEL:

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 12 juin 2011 - 10:20 .

[D.Kain]

Siansonea II wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I still think the easy solution is just to make all the menfolks sexier.

Yes, put on some makeup on em, put em in catsuits wiht heels. Dont forget to make them less bulky!

Some folks would LOVE this...but for me, send those boys to the gym, get them good haircuts, and keep the facial hair minimal. And put them in nice casual duds when they're hanging around in a non-combat environment (nothing silly though). And don't be afraid to let them show some skin every now and then.

Im actually serious! 
I dont really like the male models in this game.
how would you like someone like this in a cat suit?

http://img.japanmedi...ustGackt223.jpg

[Siansonea]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I still think the easy solution is just to make all the menfolks sexier.

Yes, put on some makeup on em, put em in catsuits wiht heels. Dont forget to make them less bulky!

I propose the next male squadmate be modeled after the members of TOKIO HOTEL:

Eek! Whelps!