494 réponses à ce sujet

[mopotter]

slimgrin wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I still think the easy solution is just to make all the menfolks sexier.

This would be nice I think.  I have a very nice fan art of Carth with just a Christmas bow held in the right spot.  And I've seen some great fan art of Kaidan, Alistair and Carth standing all manly and bare chested.  BioWare just needs to include some of that in their games.       The only one I can think of that is in the game right now is the Jacob romance and we need some that is just there to look at, not dependent on a romance track.

No, we need more realism if anything. If I want to get critical of the art direction, I say do it like they didi in ME1. 

 ME1 would be my first choice.  Everything from the armor choices to the love scenes filled me with joy and happiness.   

[mopotter]

hhh89 wrote...

Oblivious wrote...

hhh89 wrote...


Except from the fact that there are some VG that are specifically developed for a female audience. But anyway, why the software houses like Bethesda and Bioware put in their game the possibiliy to choose the PC gender? I think that the males that plays as female aren't that much. It'd be only a waste of time and resources.
Anyway, thank you. I laughed for 5 minutes for your post.

It's obvious you don't play many MMOs. The amount of sick people in this world always seems to shock me

lol, you made me remember an episode of one of my favourite series (How I Met your Mother)
Anyway, I forget about MMORPG. But still, if female didn't have to play to VG, I don't see the reason to give the possibility to choose gender. I don't know how much females play RPG, but I remember an article that stated that the number of female gamers is increasing, and not only in casual game.

Edit: I am not saying that for males playing female characters is wrong. But the options to choose the gender of the PC is something that's fundamental for a good amount of female gamers.

The troll?  Great show funny funny episode.

[Craig McDermott]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Craig McDermott wrote...

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...
Did you know that 40% of all gamers are female?

No because that is a fake statistic

Google it.

Don't need to Google it to know it's fake.  I've played a ton of games in my day and I know for a fact that statistic is bogus.

[The Elder King]

Craig McDermott wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Except from the fact that there are some VG
that are specifically developed for a female audience. But anyway, why
the software houses like Bethesda and Bioware put in their game the
possibiliy to choose the PC gender? I think that the males that plays as
female aren't that much. It'd be only a waste of time and resources.
Anyway, thank you. I laughed for 5 minutes for your post.

Not the type of video games that Bioware makes.  The video games for females are like cooking mama and other such garbage.

Of course I'm not saying that the games developed for a female audience are made by Bioware. The two things in my post were separate. Anyway, female gamers play games like ME and DAO. And in my opinion they don't seek attention. And the gender choose is something that help Bioware of Bethesda or any other SH to cater (is this the right word?) the attention of female gamers.

Modifié par hhh89, 12 juin 2011 - 11:34 .

[clerkenwell]

I always find internet discussions of feminism to be fascinating, often a little horrifying. It's been my observation that the general awareness of what feminist ideas are (and how widely those ideas vary) is pretty darn low. But no one has any trouble dismissing feminists en masse, calling them stupid or ****s or what have you. The main point that I think a lot of people would benefit from realizing is that most feminists regard gender inequality/objectification of women to be a self-perpetuating problem; the situations/products/characters/ideas that it creates in turn normalize inequality and objectification, paving the way for more material that is offensive in their eyes. What this means, is that for many feminists, Miranda's ass isn't just a symptom of the problem, in many ways it IS the problem, as are Jack's boob straps and Samara's cleavage and so on and so forth.

I think that there is a degree of validity to that perspective, but ultimately it leads to a way of viewing society that requires examination of everything in terms of its relationship to gender inequality. This, I think, can be a problem. Should all art be feminist-conscious? I would say no, I would say that is an unrealistic expectation. And yet many feminists can't NOT see the world that way; it is the lens through which they view the world. And that's fine. We all have our lens. But it's unfortunate that some people will never be able to appreciate what some art has to offer because of where it fails to address or live up to their world view.

The really ironic thing with this blogger, however, is that her feminist lens seems to be preventing her from engaging with the characters who best address certain feminist issues.

Let's take Miranda, for example. First of all, I agree with her skin-deep analysis. Miranda is the clearest example of deliberately designed male eye-candy yet found in a Bioware game. I hope she keeps that title. But if you can look past that, and examine Miranda's CHARACTER from a feminist perspective, something rather interesting emerges. Miranda herself can be seen as a microcosm or allegory of the feminist "narrative" (so to speak). She was literally crafted to perfection (or man's vision of female perfection) by a man, and not just any man, but her literal patriarch. A man who then keeps her captive, tells her what she can and cannot do, and isolates her from the rest of the world. Ultimately, she breaks free from her confinement to become a strong, self-possessed, and empowered individual. And when the man tries to do the same thing to someone else, she swoops in to liberate her, her literal sister, and commits herself to never permitting the man to take control of their lives again.

And what about Jack? I couldn't disagree more with the blogger's assessment of Jack. First of all, she doesn't conform at all to the typical standard of feminine beauty. Yes the boob straps are pretty absurd, but I don't see how one could construe Jack as being sexualized in the game itself. Yes, it's mentioned that she has a casual attitude towards sex, a trait that is very consistent with her character as a whole. We learn through talking with her that in the past she has been objectified, time and time again, both sexually and as an object of scientific curiosity, but the game itself treats her wholly as subject, and her development arc is all about Shepard being the first person to finally treat her as a person and not a thing to be used for killing or sex. It's true that she has done horrible things and his little if any moral compass. But why is she like that? It's because of the way she's been treated, the systematic objectification of her being, a tool, or at best a wild animal kept on a leash. And in the game you can help her to break down that complex by showing her what its like to be treated as a person, a journey that is obviously going to be fraught with intense emotion. And yet, the blogger objects to her showing vulnerability? Honestly, if there's any character in Mass Effect that I would think that a feminist should care for and empathize with, it's Jack.

Well, sorry for the wall of text that I'm sure most people will simply scroll right past. For the record, I'm a straight male feminist.

[Khran1505]

Useless rant is useless. Ignore this post.

Modifié par Khran1505, 12 juin 2011 - 11:33 .

[The Elder King]

mopotter wrote...

hhh89 wrote...


lol, you made me remember an episode of one of my favourite series (How I Met your Mother)
Anyway, I forget about MMORPG. But still, if female didn't have to play to VG, I don't see the reason to give the possibility to choose gender. I don't know how much females play RPG, but I remember an article that stated that the number of female gamers is increasing, and not only in casual game.

Edit: I am not saying that for males playing female characters is wrong. But the options to choose the gender of the PC is something that's fundamental for a good amount of female gamers.

The troll?  Great show funny funny episode.

It's the episode when Ted dates a girl he met on WOW (and he was playing as female:lol:)I think we're talking about hte same episode.

Modifié par hhh89, 12 juin 2011 - 11:34 .

[Lady Catastrophe]

clerkenwell wrote...
*snip*

*Applause*

[William91]

I couldnt care less...

[WizenSlinky0]

What bugs me is when anytime any female character has any sort of revealing clothing a whole mess of people jump out of trap doors screaming sexism. Not everyone, but yeah. Simple fact is some people do and would dress like that. If it fits their character as it was designed I see no reason to fault it just because it doesn't fit into somebodies perceptions of how, really, any gender should dress.

Obviously the major flaw comes in when pretty much every major female character we see has their assets smacking us in the face. That is sexualizing your game no matter how you look at it. The redesigns of characters like Ashley certainly isn't giving people a reason to think they aren't, either.

I believe it's important that any company look hard at their character and create the clothing design that fits them best, rather than what might sell the most.

Some of the points in the blog bug me. Jacob's loyalty mission? It shouldn't have happened that way because it was pointless? No, it didn't paint his father as just a villian. It painted him as a sexist, petty, megalomaniac.

It wasn't just about his father. It was the deterioration of the crew as a whole. The officers that went along with his plans so long as they were rewarded for it. It placed people with varying degree's of power in a survival situation and watched it all break down fantastically.

I don't like when companies shy away from certain topics and subjects. They happen in real life and sometimes it's refreshing for companies to try and portray them as something that actually happens in their worlds. Even with murder, wars, etc the world would be pretty rainbow and sunshines compared to ours if you take out aspects such as that. Because death and war are no where close to the most depraved things some humans are capable of.

[Craig McDermott]

hhh89 wrote...
Of course I'm not saying that the games developed for a female audience are made by Bioware. The two things in my post were separate. Anyway, female gamers play games like ME and DAO. And in my opinion they don't seek attention. And the gender choose is something that help Bioware of Bethesda or any other SH to cater (is this the right word?) the attention of female gamers.

Only a handful do. And I'd say most of them enjoy flaunting what cool "girl gamers" they are. They don't play the games as a hobby like men do.

Take the feminist blogger as an example. She clearly doesn't play Mass Effect because she enjoys gaming; she plays it so she can get all mad and make ridiculous attention-seeking blog posts. Chances are she is overweight and/or unattractive and is only able to achieve her required amount of attention through her blog.

[mopotter]

D.Kain wrote...

mopotter wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I still think the easy solution is just to make all the menfolks sexier.

Yes, put on some makeup on em, put em in catsuits wiht heels. Dont forget to make them less bulky!

No.  You put them in riped or nice tight jeans and t-shirts, open shirts or shirtless.  Haven't you ever read Cosmo magazine?  Or seen a Chippendale show?  Really.  

I just have different views on beauty. I like athletic women too, not like Miranda, but with abs and smaller 
breasts and butt. 

I do think those differences are what make a good game.  Different characters with different attitudes and styles.  I hope BioWare doesn't go down the road of making all characters similar.    

[Estelindis]

I generally agree with the strengths of Bioware noted in the blogs but am more fifty-fifty about the weaknesses. One comment I found interesting was that she feels Jack was designed for the opposite sex. Initially I would have disagreed, but as one continues playing the game one finds that if female Shepard keeps advancing her conversation she inevitably ends up with "F*** off!" as the only thing Jack will say to her. Not based on how Shepard treats her (apart from, you know, daring so much as to check back after while to see if Jack still feels their friendship can't go any further), but simply based on Shepard's sex.

[2kgnsiika]

I should totally start a topic about how Jacob taking his shirt off (out of all the characters in ME2) made me feel sooooo offended. And not only does he do that, you can also see a vid of him doing sit ups without his shirt on in LotSB...

Soooo offended, getting men wrong in Mass Effect, objectifying, sexualizing etc etc...

[Lady Catastrophe]

Craig McDermott wrote...
Only a handful do. And I'd say most of them enjoy flaunting what cool "girl gamers" they are. They don't play the games as a hobby like men do.

I can assure you I play videogames for the love of it.

--and I'm not keen on women who rub the fact that they play videogames in people's faces.Because no-one gives a rats a**.

Modifié par Lady Catastrophe, 12 juin 2011 - 11:47 .

[Weiser_Cain]

Only a quarter through it, I have to say as an artist you wouldn't be able to get a gig if you drew women like she seems to want you to. Sure, some of the Miranda stuff is over the top (all the butt shot should have been optional, that'd have made it funny) but complaining about Samara's poses? Yes' if you aren't standing flatfooted your hips will tilt one way or the other. She is right about the costume though, it should have been Morinth's.
***
The funniest thing about Jack(and she seemed to miss it) is that she comes out of cryo with makeup on, and I mean perfect makeup... in prison... in space.

[Aggie Punbot]

D.Kain wrote...

Imo feminists are ****in about wrong stuff. It would be more practical if they demanded male characters in revealing clothes, cuz majority of guys wouldn't care, and they would get their equality.

Yes they would; we'd get all the homophobes in here b!tching about how all the men now look like homosexuals. *eyeroll*

[Iwantobelieve]

Jack = http://4.bp.blogspot...-bald-crazy.jpg

[sympathy4saren]

Everything, no matter what, offends somebody. It's whatever.

[D.Kain]

TS2Aggie wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

Imo feminists are ****in about wrong stuff. It would be more practical if they demanded male characters in revealing clothes, cuz majority of guys wouldn't care, and they would get their equality.

Yes they would; we'd get all the homophobes in here b!tching about how all the men now look like homosexuals. *eyeroll*

Fellow men reply if its so. 

[The Elder King]

Craig McDermott wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Of course I'm not saying that the games developed for a female audience are made by Bioware. The two things in my post were separate. Anyway, female gamers play games like ME and DAO. And in my opinion they don't seek attention. And the gender choose is something that help Bioware of Bethesda or any other SH to cater (is this the right word?) the attention of female gamers.

Only a handful do. And I'd say most of them enjoy flaunting what cool "girl gamers" they are. They don't play the games as a hobby like men do.

Take the feminist blogger as an example. She clearly doesn't play Mass Effect because she enjoys gaming; she plays it so she can get all mad and make ridiculous attention-seeking blog posts. Chances are she is overweight and/or unattractive and is only able to achieve her required amount of attention through her blog.

I don't know statistics, but again, I remember an article that said that female gamers are increasing, and not only in the casual game field (it was in 2010, I think.). I don't know how much female plays VG and RPG, but I don't think that most of them plays to seek attention or something like that. For example, in this forum I don't see anything about the type of female gamers you stated. But  I can't prove my point with statistics, just as you can't. (except for the fact that there are more male gamers than female gamers.)

[Russalka]

I think sexual objectification is best if it is equal for both genders.

[Chino 281]

D.Kain wrote...

Imo feminists are ****in about wrong stuff. It would be more practical if they demanded male characters in revealing clothes, cuz majority of guys wouldn't care, and they would get their equality.[/quote]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Yes they would; we'd get all the homophobes in here b!tching about how all the men now look like homosexuals. *eyeroll*

-------

No, but they would look soft. Have you ever seen Star Ocean? It doesn't matter if the guy
had an 8-pack, he would still be look like a whiny Anime character.

Modifié par Chino 281, 13 juin 2011 - 12:04 .