494 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Kain]

Double

Modifié par D.Kain, 13 juin 2011 - 12:01 .

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Feminism is not a set in stone standard. Views and interpretations vary wildly.

Heck, I had an English teacher in high school who was a feminist who occassionally shared her views (sometimes forcefully, sometimes subtley). She said some pretty stupid things during the time I was in high school... things relating to Hitler and ****s, most unfortunately.

[D.Kain]

[quote]Chino 281 wrote...

[quote]D.Kain wrote...

[quote]TS2Aggie wrote...

[quote]D.Kain wrote...

Imo feminists are ****in about wrong stuff. It would be more practical if they demanded male characters in revealing clothes, cuz majority of guys wouldn't care, and they would get their equality.[/quote]

Yes they would; we'd get all the homophobes in here b!tching about how all the men now look like homosexuals. *eyeroll*

[/quote]

No, but they would look soft. Have you ever seen Star Ocean? It doesn't matter if the guy had and 8-pack, he would still be look like a whiny Japanese/anime character.

[/quote]

Dont you go there. Anime characters are ****in badass. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]

Modifié par D.Kain, 13 juin 2011 - 12:02 .

[mopotter]

hhh89 wrote...

mopotter wrote...

hhh89 wrote...


lol, you made me remember an episode of one of my favourite series (How I Met your Mother)
Anyway, I forget about MMORPG. But still, if female didn't have to play to VG, I don't see the reason to give the possibility to choose gender. I don't know how much females play RPG, but I remember an article that stated that the number of female gamers is increasing, and not only in casual game.

Edit: I am not saying that for males playing female characters is wrong. But the options to choose the gender of the PC is something that's fundamental for a good amount of female gamers.

The troll?  Great show funny funny episode.

It's the episode when Ted dates a girl he met on WOW (and he was playing as female:lol:)I think we're talking about hte same episode.

Sorry had a brain freeze or something.  Yes, that was a great episode How I met your mother is one of the few shows I watch on a regular basis, but  The Trol i'm thinking about was from the Big Bang.  Howard's girlfriend walked in on him having on line sex with a female troll, who turned out to be a guy.   

[Foryou]

Fox news was one thing since they didn't play the game and they apologized. This is someone who plays the game. Personally I liked Mirandas loyalty mission it showed that she wasn't a heartless person (for lack of better word option). Jack's was her opening herself up. And what the hell was that about Jack wearing a bra to show her to look sexy is false. I choose her alternative outfit just so I could see less tattoos. With Samera it's way to show pics at the right time and it makes sense. To be perfectly honest I can't stand most feminist cause every little thing a man says is sexist.

[SilentNukee]

I don't even notice these things...Is that wrong? It's a game...

[Foryou]

On another note she should talk about World of Warcraft. When I played I found a way to get easy money by making a female night elf (before Burning Crusade) and just go to a main city and strip and dance...I got 50 gold from one guy and ended the day with 70 gold. I soon then quit cause I got bored of WoW

[D.Kain]

SilentNukee wrote...

I don't even notice these things...Is that wrong? It's a game...

You dont notice because you think its ok. You probably wouldnt notice for real too. Some people care.

[Shotokanguy]

Apparently putting a female character in any pose emphasizes the breasts.

I mean, Christ, I get that the designs are a little too sexy, but that woman seems kind of like the crazy version of the feminist.

Modifié par Shotokanguy, 13 juin 2011 - 12:08 .

[The Unfallen]

TheKillerAngel wrote...

DISCLAIMER: Just like any other social or political movement, the feminist movement has different facets and subgroups with a varying range of ideologies. The following posts represent one face of this movement. Be aware of this before you post, so as to not unfairly mischaracterize all feminists in one way or another. This thread is about discussing whether or not you agree with her and why, and what direction character designs should go. Please be respectful and do not try to mischaractize one set of people or their views, and refrain from personal attacks.

https://gomakemeasan...t-right-part-1/
https://gomakemeasan...t-right-part-2/
https://gomakemeasan...-when-you-suck/

While I agree with her that the rear-shots of Miranda are excessive, on most every other panel I disagree with her - it seems she believes any pose or shot from the waist up is some damning evidence of sexism on Bioware's part. 

I also disagree with her about Jack. To me, Jack is about being rebellious, anti-social, and anti-authoritarian, hence her tattoos and lack of clothing. While they might not be realistic when she walks out in space, I really do not believe she was designed to be a "fanservice" type character.

Look on the bright-side, maybe this will compell BioWare to give us an option to put bad-ass armor on them in ME 3.

[Foryou]

Shotokanguy wrote...

Apparently putting a female character in any pose emphasizes the breasts.

I mean, Christ, I get that the designs are a little too sexy, but that woman seems kind of like the crazy version of the feminist.

Yeah I mean all women in ME should be flat chested while they are at it

[Heimdall]

Estelindis wrote...

I generally agree with the strengths of Bioware noted in the blogs but am more fifty-fifty about the weaknesses. One comment I found interesting was that she feels Jack was designed for the opposite sex. Initially I would have disagreed, but as one continues playing the game one finds that if female Shepard keeps advancing her conversation she inevitably ends up with "F*** off!" as the only thing Jack will say to her. Not based on how Shepard treats her (apart from, you know, daring so much as to check back after while to see if Jack still feels their friendship can't go any further), but simply based on Shepard's sex.

  That's more of a flaw with the romance system in ME2 (Lack of alternate platonic conversations) in general, similar brick walls crop up with female romance characters with a male character eventually.  Jack is just more blunt because of her generally abrasive outward personality.

[D.Kain]

Foryou wrote...

Shotokanguy wrote...

Apparently putting a female character in any pose emphasizes the breasts.

I mean, Christ, I get that the designs are a little too sexy, but that woman seems kind of like the crazy version of the feminist.

Yeah I mean all women in ME should be flat chested while they are at it

Its more about behavior than appearance.

[Estelindis]

Lord Aesir wrote...

That's more of a flaw with the romance system in ME2 (Lack of alternate platonic conversations) in general, similar brick walls crop up with female romance characters with a male character eventually.  Jack is just more blunt because of her generally abrasive outward personality.

This is true for the most part.  That said, my Shepard didn't romance any of the male LIs (she was faithful to Kaidan) and I never felt a point of total, abrupt cutting off similar to Jack.  The others just tend to peter out.

[Mudzr]

Revealing costumes aren't automatically unfeminist.
Actually quite the contary, as they reflect the confidence in the wearer and their control over men (and other women) through their sex appeal. This is vital for expecially Miranda, but also Samara.
Jack on the other hand is really all about non conformity and shock factor, as a retaliation from her horrible past, therefore her ridiclious outfit is also justified.
Jacob and Thane also wear similiar revealing, tight outfits, and yet the author hasn't seemed to have really cared about that at all.
Also, just like how ME1 is a homage to 60's and early 70's "Hard" sci fi, ME seems to be a homage to late 70's and 80's "Pulp/ commic/ dark" Scifi, with technology resembling magic, the revealing space suits, etc.
Actually I thought it was a breath of fresh air after the boring outfits of ME1.

But yes, sexism is apparent in Mass effect unfortunatly, but it is definatly not exclusive to women and it's no worse than any other video game or form of media. Also, there are much more jarring examples IMO, such as the whole asari (and Kelly) "lesbian" angle which sadly seems to have been implimented into masseffect more to cater to the horny teenage male audience rather than the lesbian audience (and objectifies women in the process, etc. etc.).

Really though, if this author wants to have a real social impact, then mass effect wouldn't be the best place to start.

[Ziggy]

 I would tend to agree with most of what she says. The good and the bad.
I hadn't realised the thing about the Asari being the only race alien race explicitly gendered as female and the only race explicitly sexualised. I mean, I knew it, just didnt really realise... somehow... kind of a 'well now that you mension it...' type of thing.

Also the role of females in Salarians and Krogans as reproductive/sex slaves really isn't very cool 
And Jacob's mission  I skipped through the dialogue because I'm totally disinterested in Jacob and am now very glad I did.

Modifié par Em23, 13 juin 2011 - 12:24 .

[greed89]

Em23 wrote...

Also the role of females in Salarians and Krogans as reproductive/sex slaves really isn't very cool 
An.

Maybe U mised the part were it is Said By Wrex him  self that the Female Clan Leader has more power then him<_<

[Ziggy]

greed89 wrote...

Em23 wrote...

Also the role of females in Salarians and Krogans as reproductive/sex slaves really isn't very cool 
An.

Maybe U mised the part were it is Said By Wrex him  self that the Female Clan Leader has more power then him<_<

Yep, I missed that too.

[Ziggy]

mrsph wrote...

Or the part where salarian females are the leaders of salarian society.

and that.

[Ziggy]

"According to the codex, some species – the Salarians, Krogans, and Turians – have males and females – we just don’t ever see the females. For the Salarians, a complex “social code” revolving around reproduction means that very few females are produced and are all kept on the home world for breeding purposes. And for the Krogans, it’s even worse; because of the genophage, female Krogan are kept on the homeworld and any that have proven fertility are fought over as prizes of war. So two of the most prominent races essentially have their women being sexual/reproductive slaves. That’s just… great. Really progressive of you, BioWare."

I'll have to check out the codex myself then.....

[mopotter]

Craig McDermott wrote...

hhh89 wrote...
Of course I'm not saying that the games developed for a female audience are made by Bioware. The two things in my post were separate. Anyway, female gamers play games like ME and DAO. And in my opinion they don't seek attention. And the gender choose is something that help Bioware of Bethesda or any other SH to cater (is this the right word?) the attention of female gamers.

Only a handful do. And I'd say most of them enjoy flaunting what cool "girl gamers" they are. They don't play the games as a hobby like men do.

Take the feminist blogger as an example. She clearly doesn't play Mass Effect because she enjoys gaming; she plays it so she can get all mad and make ridiculous attention-seeking blog posts. Chances are she is overweight and/or unattractive and is only able to achieve her required amount of attention through her blog.

And your generalizing.  I've heard quite a few guy games brag about how "cool" they and their friends are.  

Ahh the overweight card and insult.  Wow, you are batting 1000.   So are the male gamers the ones living in their parents basement, never been on a date and wear depends so they don't have to leave their game chair?  I do belive I've seen this on tv.   Really, how quaint and silly it is to generalize gamers.  

How often does someone have to play for it to be considered a hobby  or an obsession?  For a new game, I've gotten up two hours before work so I can play and then start playing when I get home from work with time out to help with dinner and then go back and play till I go to bed.  I have a very understanding husband who plays once in awhile.  For a game I've been playing for years, I'll get up an hour before I have to get ready for work and then play for a few hours in the evening.  Weekends just depend on what's happening.  If my husband goes fishing for the day, I'll start playing when he leaves and quit when he gets home around dark.     

I've been playing ME 1, ME 2 since they came out  I play them because I enjoy them.  But with that said, there are things in ME2 that irritate me.  I don't agree with everything the bloger said, but there were points that she included that were correct, imo.   Which is certainly worth as much as anyone elses.  

[Heimdall]

Estelindis wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

That's more of a flaw with the romance system in ME2 (Lack of alternate platonic conversations) in general, similar brick walls crop up with female romance characters with a male character eventually.  Jack is just more blunt because of her generally abrasive outward personality.

This is true for the most part.  That said, my Shepard didn't romance any of the male LIs (she was faithful to Kaidan) and I never felt a point of total, abrupt cutting off similar to Jack.  The others just tend to peter out.

  Well, I know what you mean, and I rarely play as a female Shepard, but I stil attribute it to Jack's personality.  All the rest seem less abrupt because they give an excuse ("Calibrations") but, true to her personality, Jack is more blunt and forceful.