117 réponses à ce sujet

[Warkupo]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Warkupo wrote...

You should definitely continue to freak out prematurely before you hear any in-game story explanation for this at all.

That is the point, there is no explanation that would make sense as to why the whole of Cerberus would willingly join with the Reapers, the only possible explanations are either bad writing, laziness or a combination of both.

Ok if you want to indoctrination argument then fine, it would make sense that those stationed at the reaper base may get indoctrinated but not the whole ****ing company, and how the hell do they explain it if in your save Shepard actually destroys the base? What then? 

Of course there is even the possibility that the Illusive Man willingly struck a deal with the Reapers which is even more ****ing absurd, and even if TIM was stupid enough to strike a deal why the hell would the rest of Cerberus stick with him?

The whole concept reeks of poor design.

You won't even entertain the idea that there is a possibility you have not conceived every plot point available in the combined effort of human conciousness and that maybe, just maybe, you should see what the story actually is before you assume that the only possible outcome is failure, simply because you're too unimaginative to think of something plausible? 

You must be fun as hell in a Library. 

[GreenDragon37]

jbblue05 wrote...

Could you imagined the amount of b!tching by paragons if Bioware says your still working with Cerberus.

Paragons are the majority, so majority rules.
Cerberus must do a 180 on the Reaper threat to appease Cerberus haters

Read my above post. As far as I'm concerned, ME2 was made to appease whining Renegades who wanted more "gray", and the Alliance and the Council took a complete 180.

And it's the Renegades ****ing now, so it's pretty ironic.

[Winterfly]

I still stand by the opinion that it be a big let down if every ****ing Cerberus soldier and scientist is a ****ing Reaper slave. That is just plain stupid and illogical. It is just "We need a cool crew for the Reapers, husks are to much zombie to use mechs and ****" -.-

[Rolling Flame]

Warkupo wrote...

I can't really imagine TIM becoming Indoctrinated. Yes, I know Saren and Benezia where a pretty big deal, but TIM still seems levels above them as far as mind control resistance goes. I'd find it more plausible that TIM is silently killed and replaced than to believe he is indoctrinated.

What? How does he seem more resistant? If anything, he would be much weaker to indoctrination given the events of Evolution. 

Just because he knows about indoctrination doesn't mean he would be able to fight it any better. Eventually, it would overcome him.

[GreenDragon37]

Winterfly wrote...

I still stand by the opinion that it be a big let down if every ****ing Cerberus soldier and scientist is a ****ing Reaper slave. That is just plain stupid and illogical. It is just "We need a cool crew for the Reapers, husks are to much zombie to use mechs and ****" -.-

I doubt they're all indoctrinated. Heck, like others have said, they probably have their own agenda, seperate from the Reapers. Maybe there's civil war? Who knows?

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 12 juin 2011 - 10:43 .

[Someone With Mass]

The funny thing is that they have never said that Cerberus as a whole is working for the Reapers. Could just be one of their cells that had the unfortunate opportunity to get indoctrinated for all we know.

And bit*hing without knowing all the details and not giving BioWare a chance to explain the event (which they will in the game) is just silly, if you ask me.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 12 juin 2011 - 10:45 .

[DocLasty]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The funny thing is that they have never said that Cerberus as a whole is working for the Reapers. Could just be one of their cells that had the unfortunate opportunity to get indoctrinated for all we know.

And bit*hing without knowing all the details and not giving BioWare a chance to explain the event (which they will in the game) is just silly, if you ask me.

Welcome to the internet!

[GreenDragon37]

Heck, going off my Civil War theory, maybe there is a Civil War being fought between the moderates (like Miranda, Jacob, and most of the Normandy crew) and the hardcore-Cerberus operatives.

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

Warkupo wrote...
You won't even entertain the idea that there is a possibility you have not conceived every plot point available in the combined effort of human conciousness and that maybe, just maybe, you should see what the story actually is before you assume that the only possible outcome is failure, simply because you're too unimaginative to think of something plausible? 

You must be fun as hell in a Library. 

Is that the best you can do? You cant actually think of a good rebuttal to my post so you throw out that pathetic excuse for a strawman? Stick to the points at hand.

[jbblue05]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Could you imagined the amount of b!tching by paragons if Bioware says your still working with Cerberus.

Paragons are the majority, so majority rules.
Cerberus must do a 180 on the Reaper threat to appease Cerberus haters

Read my above post. As far as I'm concerned, ME2 was made to appease whining Renegades who wanted more "gray", and the Alliance and the Council took a complete 180.

And it's the Renegades ****ing now, so it's pretty ironic.

ME2 did not appease Renegades we were cut out of so much content.  If anything ME2 was a Paragon paradise you've got a lot more content and you got to sabotage and screw over an "evil terroritst organization".

The Alliance and the Council didn't 180 their is no proof their are hundreds of ships like Sovereign in dark space.  It makes a lot more sense that Sovereign is an isolated threat. Plus they aren't stupid to spread panic within the public after recovering from near-defeat.
We know they have been researching SOvereign remains, they might suprise you in ME3
Shepard needs to realize he can't make everyone jump at his/her command

Modifié par jbblue05, 12 juin 2011 - 10:50 .

[DocLasty]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Warkupo wrote...
You won't even entertain the idea that there is a possibility you have not conceived every plot point available in the combined effort of human conciousness and that maybe, just maybe, you should see what the story actually is before you assume that the only possible outcome is failure, simply because you're too unimaginative to think of something plausible? 

You must be fun as hell in a Library. 

Is that the best you can do? You cant actually think of a good rebuttal to my post so you throw out that pathetic excuse for a strawman? Stick to the points at hand.

That is the point. You're acting as if the only possible answers are the ones you've thought up. You asked a question, and you're unsatisfied with the answer that you came up with.

[Spectre_907]

Nohvarr wrote...

I will Repeat, Cerberus got it's hands on Reaper tech AFTER ME 2, and implanted it into one of their former operatives. A man who had enough information to cripple Cerberus when given to te Alliance. The Reapers now know everything he knew, why is it hard to believe they'd use that knowledge to take over Cerberus.

They already did something like that with Saren and the geth and again with the Shadow Broker and the Collectors. But the difference is that they were still in dark space so they needed agents to work with. If they are already in the galaxy, Earth and the Citadel are theirs. The need for allies is irrelevant.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 12 juin 2011 - 10:56 .

[GreenDragon37]

jbblue05 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Could you imagined the amount of b!tching by paragons if Bioware says your still working with Cerberus.

Paragons are the majority, so majority rules.
Cerberus must do a 180 on the Reaper threat to appease Cerberus haters

Read my above post. As far as I'm concerned, ME2 was made to appease whining Renegades who wanted more "gray", and the Alliance and the Council took a complete 180.

And it's the Renegades ****ing now, so it's pretty ironic.

ME2 did not appease Renegades we were cut out of so much content.  If anything ME2 was a Paragon paradise you've got a lot more content and you got to sabotage and screw over an "evil terroritst organization".

The Alliance and the Council didn't 180 their is no proof their are hundreds of ships like Sovereign in dark space.  It makes a lot more sense that Sovereign is an isolated threat. Plus they aren't stupid to spread panic within the public after recovering from near-defeat.
We know they have been researching SOvereign remains, they might suprise you in ME3
Shepard needs to realize he can't make everyone jump at his/her command

ME2 was a Renegade fest (baring content- because you killed those people). You get to work for an organization that fits the Renegades style, and no matter what, Paragons have to defend Cerberus when we're talking with others.

Also, how do you know the Alliance and Council didn't backslide? All of that talk about preparing for the Reapers, and then they just say "nah, they don't exist", and they drag Shep's name through the mud while they're add it. I doubt the Council believes. Just giving into Renegade demands to make the story "darker, and edgier".

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 12 juin 2011 - 10:58 .

[Gandalf-the-Fabulous]

DocLasty wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Warkupo wrote...
You won't even entertain the idea that there is a possibility you have not conceived every plot point available in the combined effort of human conciousness and that maybe, just maybe, you should see what the story actually is before you assume that the only possible outcome is failure, simply because you're too unimaginative to think of something plausible? 

You must be fun as hell in a Library. 

Is that the best you can do? You cant actually think of a good rebuttal to my post so you throw out that pathetic excuse for a strawman? Stick to the points at hand.

That is the point. You're acting as if the only possible answers are the ones you've thought up. You asked a question, and you're unsatisfied with the answer that you came up with.

And you're acting as if there is no way that Bioware could ever tell a poor story, that every plot point they come out with is so well thought out that they cant possibly have any flaws as if we should all forget about DA2 and some of the other questionable plot points that have been raised in the previous chapters of the Mass Effect series.

Modifié par Gandalf-the-Fabulous, 12 juin 2011 - 10:58 .

[Warkupo]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Warkupo wrote...
You won't even entertain the idea that there is a possibility you have not conceived every plot point available in the combined effort of human conciousness and that maybe, just maybe, you should see what the story actually is before you assume that the only possible outcome is failure, simply because you're too unimaginative to think of something plausible? 

You must be fun as hell in a Library. 

Is that the best you can do? You cant actually think of a good rebuttal to my post so you throw out that pathetic excuse for a strawman? Stick to the points at hand.

Give me a point to argue with and I might actually try. This thread is about you complaining about a line you heard in a trailer for a game that won't be out for another year. Do you honestly expect anyone to take you seriously? 

[DocLasty]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

DocLasty wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Warkupo wrote...
You won't even entertain the idea that there is a possibility you have not conceived every plot point available in the combined effort of human conciousness and that maybe, just maybe, you should see what the story actually is before you assume that the only possible outcome is failure, simply because you're too unimaginative to think of something plausible? 

You must be fun as hell in a Library. 

Is that the best you can do? You cant actually think of a good rebuttal to my post so you throw out that pathetic excuse for a strawman? Stick to the points at hand.

That is the point. You're acting as if the only possible answers are the ones you've thought up. You asked a question, and you're unsatisfied with the answer that you came up with.

And you're acting as if there is no way that Bioware could ever tell a poor story, that every plot point they come out with is so well thought out that they cant possibly have any flaws as if we should all forget about DA2 and some of the other questionable plot points that have been raised in the previous chapters of the Mass Effect series.

I'm not saying that at all, and I think you know. Is it possible that the explanation is weak? Maybe. I don't know. Nobody does. It could be the greatest damn thing ever, for all you know. It could be the worst thing ever, for all I know. Complaining about something you know absolutely nothing about is pointless.

[DocLasty]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Could you imagined the amount of b!tching by paragons if Bioware says your still working with Cerberus.

Paragons are the majority, so majority rules.
Cerberus must do a 180 on the Reaper threat to appease Cerberus haters

Read my above post. As far as I'm concerned, ME2 was made to appease whining Renegades who wanted more "gray", and the Alliance and the Council took a complete 180.

And it's the Renegades ****ing now, so it's pretty ironic.

ME2 did not appease Renegades we were cut out of so much content.  If anything ME2 was a Paragon paradise you've got a lot more content and you got to sabotage and screw over an "evil terroritst organization".

The Alliance and the Council didn't 180 their is no proof their are hundreds of ships like Sovereign in dark space.  It makes a lot more sense that Sovereign is an isolated threat. Plus they aren't stupid to spread panic within the public after recovering from near-defeat.
We know they have been researching SOvereign remains, they might suprise you in ME3
Shepard needs to realize he can't make everyone jump at his/her command

ME2 was a Renegade fest (baring content- because you killed those people). You get to work for an organization that fits the Renegades style, and no matter what, Paragons have to defend Cerberus when we're talking with others.

Also, how do you know the Alliance and Council didn't backslide? All of that talk about preparing for the Reapers, and then they just say "nah, they don't exist", and they drag Shep's name through the mud while they're add it. I doubt the Council believes. Just giving into Renegade demands to make the story "darker, and edgier".

To be fair, it's not like it's an uncommon thing for politicians to break promises...

[Nohvarr]

jbblue05 wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

I will Repeat, Cerberus got it's hands on Reaper tech AFTER ME 2, and implanted it into one of their former operatives. A man who had enough information to cripple Cerberus when given to te Alliance. The Reapers now know everything he knew, why is it hard to believe they'd use that knowledge to take over Cerberus.

weak argument even the Turians couldn't locate TIM's base.

Plus Grayson doesn't know what's been going on with Cerberus the past two years

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't TIM nearly captured? If the Turians could get that far, what makes you think the Reapers couldn't manage to get to him? So the Reapers, armed with Graysons knowledge, and knowing that Cerberus is weak works their way up the food chain via in-galaxy agents (since they're still traveling) to get a foot hold into Cerberus and eventually take over a significan portion of the organization.

And that's just one possible theory.

[Spectre_907]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

no matter what, Paragons have to defend Cerberus when we're talking with others.

Actually that isn't always true. Look at Horizon when Ash/Kaidan criticize you for 'working with the enemy'. Defending Cerberus is the paragon option. But when Mordin criticizes Cerberus' anti-alien reputation, defending Cerberus is the renedage option while agreeing with Mordin is the paragon one. Same case with Jack and Miranda. Agreeing that you wish to join Cerberus is renegade while saying they are wrong is paragon with Miranda but defending Cerberus with Jack is the renegade.

Modifié par Spectre_907, 12 juin 2011 - 11:10 .

[GreenDragon37]

DocLasty wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Could you imagined the amount of b!tching by paragons if Bioware says your still working with Cerberus.

Paragons are the majority, so majority rules.
Cerberus must do a 180 on the Reaper threat to appease Cerberus haters

Read my above post. As far as I'm concerned, ME2 was made to appease whining Renegades who wanted more "gray", and the Alliance and the Council took a complete 180.

And it's the Renegades ****ing now, so it's pretty ironic.

ME2 did not appease Renegades we were cut out of so much content.  If anything ME2 was a Paragon paradise you've got a lot more content and you got to sabotage and screw over an "evil terroritst organization".

The Alliance and the Council didn't 180 their is no proof their are hundreds of ships like Sovereign in dark space.  It makes a lot more sense that Sovereign is an isolated threat. Plus they aren't stupid to spread panic within the public after recovering from near-defeat.
We know they have been researching SOvereign remains, they might suprise you in ME3
Shepard needs to realize he can't make everyone jump at his/her command

ME2 was a Renegade fest (baring content- because you killed those people). You get to work for an organization that fits the Renegades style, and no matter what, Paragons have to defend Cerberus when we're talking with others.

Also, how do you know the Alliance and Council didn't backslide? All of that talk about preparing for the Reapers, and then they just say "nah, they don't exist", and they drag Shep's name through the mud while they're add it. I doubt the Council believes. Just giving into Renegade demands to make the story "darker, and edgier".

To be fair, it's not like it's an uncommon thing for politicians to break promises...

I know, still BS though.

[jbblue05]

GreenDragon37 wrote...


Shepard needs to realize he can't make everyone jump at his/her command

ME2 was a Renegade fest (baring content- because you killed those people). You get to work for an organization that fits the Renegades style, and no matter what, Paragons have to defend Cerberus when we're talking with others.

Also, how do you know the Alliance and Council didn't backslide? All of that talk about preparing for the Reapers, and then they just say "nah, they don't exist", and they drag Shep's name through the mud while they're add it. I doubt the Council believes. Just giving into Renegade demands to make the story "darker, and edgier".

You should kee the base and EVERYBODY on your squad b!tches at you. while you are high-fived for destroying it.

Paragons can sabotaged athroughout the game.
Freedom's Progress  Project Overlord.  Collector Base turn Lorek evidence over to the Alliance.

Paragons are not railroaded into thinking Cerberus is awesome.

We know the Alliance and Council hav reasearched Sovereign's remains, they are researching on Ilos, they have been systematically wiping ot the Heretic holdouts, they have bolstered the Citadel defenses..  In one of the trailers the Allikance had  hundreds of ships in orbit around Earth during Shep's trial.
Kenson who is part of the Alliance was trying to destory the Alpha Relay so the Reapers can't suprise attack us

Once again acknowledging the Reaper threat to the public is STUPID

Modifié par jbblue05, 12 juin 2011 - 11:18 .

[jbblue05]

Nohvarr wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

I will Repeat, Cerberus got it's hands on Reaper tech AFTER ME 2, and implanted it into one of their former operatives. A man who had enough information to cripple Cerberus when given to te Alliance. The Reapers now know everything he knew, why is it hard to believe they'd use that knowledge to take over Cerberus.

weak argument even the Turians couldn't locate TIM's base.

Plus Grayson doesn't know what's been going on with Cerberus the past two years

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't TIM nearly captured? If the Turians could get that far, what makes you think the Reapers couldn't manage to get to him? So the Reapers, armed with Graysons knowledge, and knowing that Cerberus is weak works their way up the food chain via in-galaxy agents (since they're still traveling) to get a foot hold into Cerberus and eventually take over a significan portion of the organization.

And that's just one possible theory.

Why didn't Sovereign take out Cerberus in ME1 than.
Cerberus won't survive an attack from a Reaper by themselves not to mention the army of Geth behind Sovereign

Modifié par jbblue05, 12 juin 2011 - 11:19 .

[GreenDragon37]

jbblue05 wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

I will Repeat, Cerberus got it's hands on Reaper tech AFTER ME 2, and implanted it into one of their former operatives. A man who had enough information to cripple Cerberus when given to te Alliance. The Reapers now know everything he knew, why is it hard to believe they'd use that knowledge to take over Cerberus.

weak argument even the Turians couldn't locate TIM's base.

Plus Grayson doesn't know what's been going on with Cerberus the past two years

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't TIM nearly captured? If the Turians could get that far, what makes you think the Reapers couldn't manage to get to him? So the Reapers, armed with Graysons knowledge, and knowing that Cerberus is weak works their way up the food chain via in-galaxy agents (since they're still traveling) to get a foot hold into Cerberus and eventually take over a significan portion of the organization.

And that's just one possible theory.

Why didn't Sovereign take out Cerberus in ME1 than.
Cerberus won't survive an attack from a Reaper by themselves not to mention the army if Geth behind Sovereign

Cerberus wasn't a threat in ME1 to the Reapers' plans. In fact, the only one who was a threat was Shep and his crew, because they knew the truth and were actively trying to stop them.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 12 juin 2011 - 11:24 .

[GreenDragon37]

jbblue05 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...


Shepard needs to realize he can't make everyone jump at his/her command

ME2 was a Renegade fest (baring content- because you killed those people). You get to work for an organization that fits the Renegades style, and no matter what, Paragons have to defend Cerberus when we're talking with others.

Also, how do you know the Alliance and Council didn't backslide? All of that talk about preparing for the Reapers, and then they just say "nah, they don't exist", and they drag Shep's name through the mud while they're add it. I doubt the Council believes. Just giving into Renegade demands to make the story "darker, and edgier".

You should kee the base and EVERYBODY on your squad b!tches at you. while you are high-fived for destroying it.

Paragons can sabotaged athroughout the game.
Freedom's Progress  Project Overlord.  Collector Base turn Lorek evidence over to the Alliance.

Paragons are not railroaded into thinking Cerberus is awesome.

We know the Alliance and Council hav reasearched Sovereign's remains, they are researching on Ilos, they have been systematically wiping ot the Heretic holdouts, they have bolstered the Citadel defenses..  In one of the trailers the Allikance had  hundreds of ships in orbit around Earth during Shep's trial.
Kenson who is part of the Alliance was trying to destory the Alpha Relay so the Reapers can't suprise attack us

Once again acknowledging the Reaper threat to the public is STUPID

You forget one thing:

Shep is not the public! He/she knows the Reapers exist. He/she decided the fate of the Council, and he/she is the reason is why they are all still alive. There's no point in hiding it from him/her! It's a stupid decision.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 12 juin 2011 - 11:26 .