117 réponses à ce sujet

[bellurdan]

I'd more expect parts of the Alliance to get indoctrinated like the team from Arrival. Also, blaming Shepard for carrying out an ALLIANCE PLAN seems about as dickish as you can get, and hell, to be expected from polititians. Both Cerberus and the Systems Alliance are gaping ****s, and I'd rather have options to stick it to both of them. Would love it if there were three options for the Collector Base at the end of ME2 - paragon gives info over to the Alliance, neutral gives it over to Cerberus, and renegade blows it up. Ah well.

I'm majorly a renegade in my playthroughs, but I don't mind Cerberus becoming he enemy - but I'll say this - only if it's done well storyline-wise and there's a decent explenation that's not a 'a wizard did it' plot point. If it makes sense, allright.

[DarkSeraphym]

DocLasty wrote...

TheJiveDJ wrote...

I think most people are upset about the Cerberus indoctrination because TIM was such a well written...antagonist? Supporting character? Not sure, but he was great. You never really knew his true motives and he always seemed to have some kind of ulterior motive.

If it turns out that TIM is simply indoctrinated it removes all importance from the character and turns him into a one-sided, one-dimensional lifeless character, devoid of all depth. That is, of course if TIM is actually indoctrinated....something tells me he isn't....I hope he isnt....

Being indoctrinated didn't stop Saren from being an interesting character.

I think there is a bit of a difference.

Saren, despite being indoctrinated, was an interesting character because once all of the facts were laid out in front of you, he became a tragic character. He believed that proving that organics could be useful to the Reapers would utimately mean they would be spared. Saren never openly voiced his opinion that the Reapers should be stopped, which makes sense seeing as how he kind of hints that he believes fighting them is an impossibiity in Mass Effect. What makes Saren interesting is that Sovereign didn't have to indoctrinate him to get him on his side. Although Saren did ultimately become indoctrinated by Sovereign, it is not necessariy clear exactly how separate the true Saren is from his indoctrinated counterpart.

The Illusive Man would become a one-dimensional character because everything that we appear to know about him would deter him from siding with the Reapers of his own free will.  In order to get him onto their side, BioWare would be forced to turn to indoctrination and the process of using a plot device to turn a character into a mindess husk that is behaving in a manner counterintuitive to the beliefs of the character indeed makes them a less interesting one. Of course, there is the possibility that the Reapers and Cerberus are attacking humanity for differing goals. However, I do not think there is any way that the Illusive Man would actively fight for the Reapers without being indoctrinated and I do think that would make him a far less interesting character.

Modifié par DarkSeraphym, 14 juin 2011 - 08:47 .

[Payne by name]

Schneidend said "Also, enemy variety is more important than whether or not you feel like fighting Cerberus."
Maybe that should read 'Enemy variety is more important that sensible, consistent story telling'

[Massadonious1]

Of course, it's easier to cherry pick quotes than to read the ones that provide perfectly reasonable rationalizations and speculations.

But "herp derp BioWare sux" and all that.

[Aedan_Cousland]

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 14 juin 2011 - 10:13 .

[Payne by name]

"Of course, it's easier to cherry pick quotes than to read the ones that provide perfectly reasonable rationalizations and speculations. But "herp derp BioWare sux" and all that. "


I thought my response was an equally 'reasonable rationlization and speculation.

[brfritos]

BelgianGuy wrote...

Something combining thousands of plot points from 2 previous games + comics + books... Yeah, it's going to have some holes.

HOWEVER, for the love of god, STOP ****ING. I just know the people ****ing are the retards who'll post bad reviews on metacritic the exact second allowed even though they haven't played the game, just like they did with DA2.

Seriously. Nowhere it is stated that Cerberus works for the reapers.
WE HAVE SEEN CERBERUS FIGHTING SHEPARD. That is it. Maybe they are working for the reapers - maybe Shepard ran off with TIM's sexy wife.
We.
Don't.
Know.

Stop.
Crying.

That's not what is in the confirmed story thread: http://social.biowar...423/blog/35955/

“If your wondering why we were fighting Cerberus, having worked closely with this shadowy organisation in Mass Effect 2, the answer just raises further questions. They are wokring with the Reapers”

Casey Hudson, via PC Gamer magazine.

Modifié par brfritos, 14 juin 2011 - 10:55 .

[zorb69]

brfritos wrote...

BelgianGuy wrote...

Something combining thousands of plot points from 2 previous games + comics + books... Yeah, it's going to have some holes.

HOWEVER, for the love of god, STOP ****ING. I just know the people ****ing are the retards who'll post bad reviews on metacritic the exact second allowed even though they haven't played the game, just like they did with DA2.

Seriously. Nowhere it is stated that Cerberus works for the reapers.
WE HAVE SEEN CERBERUS FIGHTING SHEPARD. That is it. Maybe they are working for the reapers - maybe Shepard ran off with TIM's sexy wife.
We.
Don't.
Know.

Stop.
Crying.

That's not what is in the confirmed story thread: http://social.biowar...423/blog/35955/

“If your wondering why we were fighting Cerberus, having worked closely with this shadowy organisation in Mass Effect 2, the answer just raises further questions. They are wokring with the Reapers”

Casey Hudson, via PC Gamer magazine.

From Casey Hudson's Twitter

The_Bouk Matt
Huge spoiler drop during this #ME3 demo, not cool. #E3 Reapers
working with Cerberus? Seems a bit major. @CaseyDHudson @truffle
@masseffect
7 Jun
in reply to ↑

@CaseyDHudson
Casey
Hudson
.@The_Bouk Nah, not a spoiler, just simplification of premise for TV.
Cerberus & Reapers are both against you in #ME3 - the mystery is
why.

From some other comments, I took this to mean in ME3 Cerberus is against you and the Reapers are against you, but they aren't together. During the E3 demos Shepard makes a comment that the Cerberus soldiers are indoctrinated but I haven't seen any other confirmation that it is the case. It's basically one comment with no context to place it.

Given that you know why the Reapers are out to get Shepard the mystery why should only apply to Cerberus, and I didn't think Indoctrination would be that big a mystery.

Modifié par zorb69, 14 juin 2011 - 03:41 .

[Steppenwolf]

People need to stop acting like this came out of nowhere. TIM has Reaper-artifact tech in his damn body. His eyes are like that because he got zapped by a Reaper beacon. And it did all kinds of stuff to his brain. This isn't out of left field.

[Labrev]

There might be more to the story than that. But yeah, given the track-record, I'm not holding my breath.

[Eshaye]

BasilKarlo wrote...

People need to stop acting like this came out of nowhere. TIM has Reaper-artifact tech in his damn body. His eyes are like that because he got zapped by a Reaper beacon. And it did all kinds of stuff to his brain. This isn't out of left field.

Yes but some will tell you that he's 'special' . Which honestly could be true, we won't know more for months anyway. HOWEVER I've just completed Arrival for the first time and I'm convinced more then ever that anyone close to anything with Reaper tech is indoctrinated except maybe Shepard. 

BUT! Nothing is 100% sure until BioWare says so.

[Thompson family]

Winterfly wrote...

Let the guy complain cause Bioware need a pretty big ****ing bridge to get over this crater. It is like a Reaper has crashed landed into a planet and exploded. How will they explain this is a long shot of makebelief bull****.

An argument could be made anybody gullible enough to trust TIM deserves whatever he or she gets.

For anyone interested in a serious discussion of the topic, consider this.

[Raizo]

I am dissapointed with this plot revelation. I was kind of hoping that there was another reason why Cerebus operatives are trying to kill Shepard but if this is the explanation that we are going to get than that is very under whelming. The whole entire 'Indoctrination' thing is starting to get old epecially with all the time Shepard has spent near Reapers and Reaper tech and so far has not been indoctrinated.

It does raise some interesting questions though. How Cerebus become Indoctrinated, it's either everyone in the organisation or it is just the boss man ( TIM ). We know TIM has had exposure to a Reaper artifact from the ME comics but it does not look like he has been indoctrinated in ME2, why else would he be hleping Shepard to stop the Collectors ( and therefore stopping the Reaper's ) if he was under Reaper control all along. That means Cerebus/TIM have only recently ( after SM but before ME3 ) come into contact with Reaper tech so the other question is how did they get it, where did it come from.

My last question or rather issue revolves around Miranda, she better not be indoctrintaed in ME3. To be honest I can't think of a possible reason why she would still be with Cerebus in ME3. She more or less gave TIM the finger and quit Cerebus in my playthrough and she has nowhere to go now that she has pissed off 2 of the wealtiest and most powerful men in the ME Universe ( TIM and her Father ).

[ODST 5723]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

Seriously Bioware? This is the best you could do? Are you even trying anymore?

We've heard this kind of whining already (mainly from bitter pro-cerberus renegades), is this the best whining you can do?  Are you even trying to put effort into your whines anymore?

Even if you hate Cerberus this is still pretty ****ing lame, its like Bioware no longer cares about writing convincing enemies or making believable conflicts any more, instead of using their imagination and creating an enemy that makes sense they took the DA2 approach and said "**** it, instead of offering unique and fun content between point a and b lets just throw a ****ton of spiders in their way and call it a day".

How do you know it doesn't make sense?  How do you know that the turn isn't convincing or believable?

The answer is, you don't.  This hasn't been explained yet and the game isn't out.  Calling them out for this without any context whatsoever is ridiculous.  Wait and see.  And then, if they botch it, call them out for it.

[Majinfefnir13]

Im honestly neither Pro or Anti Cerberus, I saw working with Cerberus in ME2 as a "Enemy of my Enemy" or something to that effect. Anyways the "Cerberus are now servant of the Reapers" seems like a giant cop-out epecially when they were working against them in ME2. But from so little we know of the actually storyline I'll wait see what they are going with this.

That's my 2 cents

[iAmLegion2183]

I haven't read the ME comics, but lets not forget that Shepard visited a Derelict Reaper in ME2 that Cerberus were investigating. But more importantly Cerberus was cataloguing Reaper artefacts. Cerberus could have easily removed Reaper artefacts to another location.

Rather stupid of them to expose themselves to Reaper technology, but maybe they thought these items were inert.

In short, it's not a stretch of the imagination that Cerberus and TIM are in prolonged contact with Reaper technology and studying it. Acquiring advanced technology is Cerberus' main goal, and TIM is power hungry.
Prolonged contact causes indoctrination, and we know from Saren that the Reapers are capable of indoctrinating victims to a point before they lose complete autonomy, thus making them servants.

It's not very imaginative of Bioware, but TIM makes a better story antagonist than Collector General/Harbinger. Saren was a great antagonist and so can TIM.

Modifié par iAmLegion2183, 14 juin 2011 - 05:09 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

I would just like to reiterate to all the Cerberus fans who once mocked those who gave TIM the finger and destroyed the Reaper base:

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 14 juin 2011 - 09:16 .

[atheelogos]

Skirata129 wrote...

I don't buy the indoctrination thing. Where is everyone getting that from?

Two ways it can happen. 1. Thats reaper tech in TIM's eyes. Maybe that's the source.

2. Its possible that when the Reaper got access to a Relay they went straight for Tim's base and brain washed him.