335 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

tmp7704 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

weak argument.

it should be a believable character first.

i cant take femshep seriously because they have a 150 pound woman (probably less) acting like a damn linebacker.

you can have a tough and strong female character, just dont have them act like a dude, especially dont make them act like a dude 3 times her size.

It's not the argument that's weak. It's your preconceptions that's too strong for you to overcome. Why do you think there's such thing as "acting like a dude" in the first place? Because you've been taught to believe that some behaviours are only suitable for one gender... and why do you believe that to be the case, exactly?

Men and women are different.  They think differently, act differently.  This is not to say one is better than other; it is to say they aren't the same.  This is why simply slapping the femshep model on maleshep's animations is not particularly believable.

[tmp7704]

jamesp81 wrote...

Men and women are different.  They think differently, act differently.  This is not to say one is better than other; it is to say they aren't the same.  This is why simply slapping the femshep model on maleshep's animations is not particularly believable.

Men and women also think and act different on individual level, and --with these individual variations being part of the picture-- there's enough overleap between the genders that you can have individuals of both genders act very similar if not downright identical. This applies especially to behaviours which are result of social pressure rather than biology, like number of things you can see discussed in this particular thread (sitting posture, mannerisms etc)

Consider a simple example -- we teach young girls to "sit modest". If this was a case of actual "men and women are different" there'd be no need to correct their posture in such manner in the first place.

Modifié par tmp7704, 14 juin 2011 - 05:38 .

[REgentleman]

There is no difference neurologically
There is no difference neurologically
There is no difference neurologically

Say it with me!

There is no difference neurologically

[onelifecrisis]

REgentleman wrote...

There is no difference neurologically
There is no difference neurologically
There is no difference neurologically

Say it with me!

There is no difference neurologically

Are you joking or misinformed?

[EliDL]

I don't have an issue with this. I thought it was refreshing to play as femshep the way she is. Personally, I wouldn't mind if they added a little more "femininity" to her but others may not like that so, I don't really care either way.

Aggression and weakness, dominance and submissive, hard and soft etc I think are general traits to our species and not specific to gender. Also, other factors apart from gender varying from person to person dictate how masculine or feminine they will behave.

Modifié par EliDL, 15 juin 2011 - 06:35 .

[SilentNukee]

Only thing that bothered me: this it's pretty funny...lol

Modifié par SilentNukee, 16 juin 2011 - 04:21 .

[EliDL]

^That art is disturbing. I never did any dlc stuff so I never witnessed my shep sit in such an inappropriate fashion for being in a dress. ;D

Modifié par EliDL, 16 juin 2011 - 05:55 .

[Good Chaos7]

[quote]SilentNukee wrote...

Only thing that bothered me: this it's pretty funny...lol

[smilie]http://th02.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2011/166/8/3/the_intervention_by_lordess_alicia-d3j0wyp.jpg[/smilie]

[quote] That's my Shep Keeping it real!

Modifié par Good Chaos7, 16 juin 2011 - 06:03 .

[RainyDayLover]

Wow, I haven't laughed this hard in a while. That image killed me.

[SilentNukee]

RainyDayLover wrote...

Wow, I haven't laughed this hard in a while. That image killed me.

Hahaha, especially Thane recalling his "vivid memory".

[Platform626]

SilentNukee wrote...

Only thing that bothered me: this it's pretty funny...lol

This definitely needs to be tweeted to the people at Bioware.

[CrimsonNephilim]

Wow, just...wow :blink:

[ATC2K Sides]

While I agree the animations are off ALOT, I believe female Shepard's masculinity is well inserted and rivals that of Ripley in Aliens. Just because she is female does not mean she has to conform to the gender stereotypes of a culture bogged down by damsels in distress.

[REgentleman]

edit: dub post, burn after reading

Modifié par REgentleman, 18 juin 2011 - 12:14 .

[REgentleman]

onelifecrisis wrote...

REgentleman wrote...

There is no difference neurologically
There is no difference neurologically
There is no difference neurologically

Say it with me!

There is no difference neurologically

Are you joking or misinformed?

Both. I'm certainly no expert or accomplished student, though I know a couple tidbits of why what I said is a rather dumb statement (e.x. men by-and-large are on-record as having slightly stronger reactions to touch than women, men may more commonly feel a more visceral rush when playing games competitively than women-possibly part of a explanation for why it's such a sausage-fest, etc).

I think it's somewhat absurd, though, to think that men and women are universally so different (politically correct usage of the word aside), that there couldn't possibly be a woman who naturally exhibits behavior more commonly attributed to men (see Shepard). It should be totally possible that Shepard isn't faking the way she moves, and that she really is that tough (especially given she's a cyborg).

[Sister Helen]

I like how femshep charges a hunkered down alien monster, headbutts a krogan, and suckerpunches a taurian. None of these activities lend themselves to more ladylike animations.

The only thing I dislike about femshep is how she sits when she is wearing a dress.

I'd rather she had never gotten the dress or that she had a different sitting animation when wearing it.  Sitting in a dress IS a ladylike endeavor.

Modifié par Sister Helen, 18 juin 2011 - 01:49 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

It's not the argument that's weak. It's your preconceptions that's too strong for you to overcome. Why do you think there's such thing as "acting like a dude" in the first place? Because you've been taught to believe that some behaviours are only suitable for one gender... and why do you believe that to be the case, exactly?

According to your theory I should be able to take in a fist fight a 300lb man or be able to take down a sumo wrestler and I'm only 120lbs!  Yeah not gonna happen women fight differently fshep should reflect that when she's gotta start dueling with things larger then herself!

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 18 juin 2011 - 03:33 .

[EliDL]

"Realistically" male shep wouldn't be capable of that either. Male/female shep perform feats that no real human could pull off. It's a game set in the future and shepard is enhanced to be far above a normal woman or man, altered with cybernetic parts, he/she has sheilds etc and it's just a game. Not a perfectly accurate for today - real life simulator.

Modifié par EliDL, 18 juin 2011 - 04:45 .

[hwf]

Yeah the intervention comic is spot on - and I used to defend the shared animations before this DLC.
Running in high heels in the very same DLC looked very iffy as well.

Honestly, I feel the combat animations being identical makes sense.
Troops get the same bootcamp training, same hand-to-hand etc so it feels to me as normal that you'd have troops march or doubletime it in similar fashion.
It has got nothing to do with 'masculine' but everything to do with 'practical' or even 'optimal' in case of CQC/hand-to-hand.

I'm not sure I like the Dragon Age 2 running animation or even the idle animation for lady Hawke for example.
For a soldier in the Thedas setting I felt Aveline's run/idle animations were actually believable - unlike lady Hawke's.

[Guns]

This thread is just embarrassing. There is such things as acting like a man or a woman. Get over yourselves and pull the liberal stick out of your bum.

[Whereto]

Just out of context for a second, I would actually like to see a female front line soldier in action, purely to see the difference between their actions compared to the average male action. But back in context, there is so much I want to change about femshep, such as hair and facial options etc, though I hope that if they add more feminine actions to femshep(combat animations stay the same) they dont go over board and over sex it.

[onelifecrisis]

I've been wanting to get this off my chest for a while now... and it's sort of on-topic...

Has anyone here seen Aliens? That, IMO, is how you portray a kickass woman.

Femshep is not done like that. Femshep walks like a man and tries to talk like a man, and it just fails on every level for me. If she's supposed to be a strong woman then please, BW, let her be a strong woman. As I said Ripley is a good example, but even Ash is a much more convincing "strong woman" character than femshep; if they were real people and I had to fist fight one of them based only on how tough they seem to be, I'd definitely rather take on femshep than Ash!

[SilentK]

Sister Helen wrote...

I like how femshep charges a hunkered down alien monster, headbutts a krogan, and suckerpunches a taurian. None of these activities lend themselves to more ladylike animations.

The only thing I dislike about femshep is how she sits when she is wearing a dress.

I'd rather she had never gotten the dress or that she had a different sitting animation when wearing it.  Sitting in a dress IS a ladylike endeavor.

Right there with you       I love watching my FemShep being a awesome badass! That's my Shepard, hope she never changes. Just fix the dress-thing and I'll be happy to get all my FemSheps through ME3. 

[AmyBA]

I LIKE my Shep being more "butch". I am sick and tired of female characters that are all soft and feminine and girly and graceful and not allowed to be more brutal and forceful, that aren't allowed to charge into situations head on and fists flying.

I was so glad when I played ME1 to see my femShep acting/behaving and moving more like I do, it is part of the reason I connected with her SO much more than any female character before her, she felt strong and tough. She felt and looked like she really was capable for doing the things she was doing, like she could handle anything that was thrown at her.

And yes, females CAN move and act like that. I move very similar to femShep. I am an athletic female. I am a fencer and boxer, I also do various martial arts and aid in teaching a self-defense class. I've never been very feminine and I hate feeling like I am supposed to be because that is what is "normal"..

I get guys I work with or train with all the time that seem freaked out because I move and act more like a guy, it honestly seems to bother them on some deeper level, especially if I have to spar against one and end up winning...

It is insulting that people think a female can't possibly be that way. There are plenty of them that are.

And as for the dress thing, its fitting my Shep would sit that way in a dress, because I probably would too. I never wear skirts/dresses, I haven't since I was probably 10 or so. I would have no idea how to move or sit in a dress or walk in heels (I have never worn heels before...). And for me, my Shep is kind of based off of me (though obviously much more awesome, shes an idealized version of me.), she would be just as clueless when it comes to dresses or how to behave properly in them.

Modifié par AmyBA, 18 juin 2011 - 03:09 .

[Destroy Raiden_]

onelifecrisis wrote...

I've been wanting to get this off my chest for a while now... and it's sort of on-topic...

Has anyone here seen Aliens? That, IMO, is how you portray a kickass woman.

Femshep is not done like that. Femshep walks like a man and tries to talk like a man, and it just fails on every level for me. If she's supposed to be a strong woman then please, BW, let her be a strong woman. As I said Ripley is a good example, but even Ash is a much more convincing "strong woman" character than femshep; if they were real people and I had to fist fight one of them based only on how tough they seem to be, I'd definitely rather take on femshep than Ash!

I usually think of my fshep as a combo of Ripley and Vasquez but when bw has her smashing a yahg around like a toy it totally looses that imagine. She could've kicked boxed it or went all thai fighter on the thing. Oddly enough that's really my biggest fight complain I've got on her when she does things like that I don't care about the whole shove spector girl out the window moment, or crush mouse's neck, those two scenes are plausible for me yahg boxing is not. I can find the yahg boxing plausible for mshep but barely the he has metal bones excuse works better here for me then me using that theory on fshep.