335 réponses à ce sujet

[D.Kain]

Clonedzero wrote...


so you're saying femshep has.....oh god!!!!!!

No you got it wrong.

[KBomb]

CrimsonNephilim wrote...

I'd say someone should go to Casey Hudson's twitter or a Devs twitter and post asking if the Motion Capture for male and female Shepard is going to change for ME3. Probably the likeliest way of getting this whole thing figured out.

I would like to know this, but who ever does it--please be respectful!

[Comsky159]

onelifecrisis wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

The only way to walk like a dude is to walk with a penis. No other way! 

That's so incorrect it's not even funny. Learn some basic biology. Start here:

http://en.wikipedia....xual_dimorphism

Hahaha I think you took that a little too seriously.

[onelifecrisis]

Comsky159 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

The only way to walk like a dude is to walk with a penis. No other way! 

That's so incorrect it's not even funny. Learn some basic biology. Start here:

http://en.wikipedia....xual_dimorphism

Hahaha I think you took that a little too seriously.

Have you read the whole thread? If D.Kain is joking, I'd say s/he has worn the joke out.

[tmp7704]

KainrycKarr wrote...

There's a difference between breaking stereotypes and trying to sound like a man.

I've never met a military woman who talks as low and gruff as Hale does in her role as femshep.

But see, the idea that sounding low and gruff is "sounding like a man" as opposed to just sounding low and gruff... is exactly the kind of stereotype i'm talking about.

You've met high-pitched women in the military, that's great. But women can have different voice pitch, just like men.

[bleetman]

I'd say they've got better things to do than sate the apparent need to have female Shepard sit cross legged at all times for some obscure reason.

[Seboist]

Femshep's lack of muscle mass coupled with her using sheploo's animations makes moments like her carrying Kaidan over her shoulder on Virmire and punching out Turians look pretty ridiculous. It makes femshep seem like an afterthought thrown in for the sake of having a female player character option.

[D.Kain]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Comsky159 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

The only way to walk like a dude is to walk with a penis. No other way! 

That's so incorrect it's not even funny. Learn some basic biology. Start here:

http://en.wikipedia....xual_dimorphism

Hahaha I think you took that a little too seriously.

Have you read the whole thread? If D.Kain is joking, I'd say s/he has worn the joke out.

Im not joking. And I know about te pelvis. BUT more athletic females with less bodyfat walk ok, 
I was curious and payed attention to some of our college students.

[onelifecrisis]

D.Kain wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Comsky159 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

D.Kain wrote...

The only way to walk like a dude is to walk with a penis. No other way! 

That's so incorrect it's not even funny. Learn some basic biology. Start here:

http://en.wikipedia....xual_dimorphism

Hahaha I think you took that a little too seriously.

Have you read the whole thread? If D.Kain is joking, I'd say s/he has worn the joke out.

Im not joking. And I know about te pelvis. BUT more athletic females with less bodyfat walk ok, 
I was curious and payed attention to some of our college students.

Did you even read the link? Body fat has nothing to do with it.

[Raiil]

I got into a huge rant about this on the femshep animation thread, so if you've read it before, scroll.

Some of fem!Shep's animations are awkward simply because they don't make sense out of context; she has one running animation, which makes perfect sense in armour (aka for ninety percent of the game) but look rather bad when she's in her casual clothing, particularly that black leather dress you can get in Kasumi's loyalty mission. The same goes for some of the sitting situations, such as the much talked about eagle spread that seems to send people haywire. (For the record, women can and do sit as such- I'm one of them. It's more comfortable for me.)


On to the whole 'but women and men are shaped differently!' argument: there is basic sexual dimorphism, and there is 'women run this way, men run that way'. There are a whole host of things that determine how a person walks. This includes, but is not limited to, leg/height ratio, weight, amount being carried on a person, the sort of shoes you're wearing, previous injuries, the general health of the person, socially created and desired perceptions (men should take manly strides! women should sway!), and so on and so forth.


Regarding the 'badass' aspect: Soldiers are trained to be uniform, and they are trained for power. While there should be allowances for things like basic body shape, center of gravity, etc, just because femShep is a female doesn't mean she hasn't learned to pack one hell of a punch. 'But most women can't hit that hard!' one might say. The news flash is neither can most men. It's not just biology. Shepard is a genetically altered, cybernetically enhanced soldier who has been through rigorous training for many years and is acknowledged as such.

Attributing acts of aggression (re: the knuckle cracking and saying something threatening) as masculine is inherently nothing more than one societal view that has self-determined that aggression/dominance/the need to fight is something unique to maleness. Women can, and have, shown throughout history that it's not something specific to one gender- it's only commentary made by others that positions it as masculine, and an archaric societal standard that continues to posit that it's something solely 'manly', instead of a reaction that, in nature, both genders/sexes can and do display.

[onelifecrisis]

Valentia X wrote...

On to the whole 'but women and men are shaped differently!' argument: there is basic sexual dimorphism, and there is 'women run this way, men run that way'. There are a whole host of things that determine how a person walks. This includes, but is not limited to, leg/height ratio, weight, amount being carried on a person, the sort of shoes you're wearing, previous injuries, the general health of the person, socially created and desired perceptions (men should take manly strides! women should sway!), and so on and so forth.

mShep and fShep have the same leg/height ratio, wear the same shoes, carry the same weight in armor and weapons,  have the same previous injuries, the same general health (presumably). What's left? Oh yeah - their pelvic bones are totally different from each other.

[tmp7704]

Seboist wrote...

Femshep's lack of muscle mass coupled with her using sheploo's animations makes moments like her carrying Kaidan over her shoulder on Virmire and punching out Turians look pretty ridiculous.

Take your pick between "microfiber muscle weave" and a reminder Bruce Lee has weighted ~140 pounds, too. There's more to the muscles than just sheer mass.

[KBomb]

All the feminist malarkey aside, I would just like to see her animations to mirror those she had in the first Mass Effect. It isn’t a huge deal for me, I enjoyed Mass Effect 2 immensely, in spite of the fact that she walked, sat and ran like she did. I’ll enjoy Mass Effect 3 just as much, if not more. I am simply saying it would be nice to see FemShep have her own uniqueness when moving about.

[D.Kain]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

On to the whole 'but women and men are shaped differently!' argument: there is basic sexual dimorphism, and there is 'women run this way, men run that way'. There are a whole host of things that determine how a person walks. This includes, but is not limited to, leg/height ratio, weight, amount being carried on a person, the sort of shoes you're wearing, previous injuries, the general health of the person, socially created and desired perceptions (men should take manly strides! women should sway!), and so on and so forth.

mShep and fShep have the same leg/height ratio, wear the same shoes, carry the same weight in armor and weapons,  have the same previous injuries, the same general health (presumably). What's left? Oh yeah - their pelvic bones are totally different from each other.

Ok so your saying a woman cant run straight? 


1) Fantasy bull... 


2) The ONLY right way.


right?

[Xeranx]

Nyoka wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

Why does it seem like you're taking my op out of context or attributing something to it that isn't there?

Didn't notice your edit there and now it looks like you're trying to start something...again based on something that's not there.  What is my general post saying and what are you taking from it instead?

It was my impression of the thread in general, not specifically your post.

What I did get from your post thought is that you think knuckle cracking is a masculine mannerism. Which is, hmmm, interesting. I also don't see what's wrong with the voice. The "I'll take it" line isn't different from the rest, not in my experience at least.

It's also interesting how you dismiss a few things as male bravado, but the title of your post is not "Shepard and stupid male bravado". You even mention that these things are unnecessary in male Shepards as well. But your post is not "please Bioware, remove all that meaningless male bravado from Shepard", since as you know, both Sheps share the same animations. No, it's specifically "Please Bioware, Femshep is too butch for me". There's a pretty obvious assumption there: the problem is not the male bravado per se; the problem is her.

Well, I think she's just fine, as do most female gamers who have posted here. Does that tell you something at all?

That's probably because I almost exclusively play as female Shepard.  I have two male Shepards (one has had a run through ME2 and the other hasn't...neither has had a run through any DLC) and maybe 6 female Shepards with complete run-throughs and I have in mind to run all of them through DLC if they weren't already.  

[onelifecrisis]

D.Kain wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

On to the whole 'but women and men are shaped differently!' argument: there is basic sexual dimorphism, and there is 'women run this way, men run that way'. There are a whole host of things that determine how a person walks. This includes, but is not limited to, leg/height ratio, weight, amount being carried on a person, the sort of shoes you're wearing, previous injuries, the general health of the person, socially created and desired perceptions (men should take manly strides! women should sway!), and so on and so forth.

mShep and fShep have the same leg/height ratio, wear the same shoes, carry the same weight in armor and weapons,  have the same previous injuries, the same general health (presumably). What's left? Oh yeah - their pelvic bones are totally different from each other.

Ok so your saying a woman cant run straight? 


1) Fantasy bull... 


2) The ONLY right way.


right?

What the **** planet are you on?

Don't put words in my mouth, especially not such ****ing idiotic ones as those. You're wrong, it's scientific fact, just accept it and move on.

Modifié par onelifecrisis, 13 juin 2011 - 01:53 .

[Raiil]

onelifecrisis wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

On to the whole 'but women and men are shaped differently!' argument: there is basic sexual dimorphism, and there is 'women run this way, men run that way'. There are a whole host of things that determine how a person walks. This includes, but is not limited to, leg/height ratio, weight, amount being carried on a person, the sort of shoes you're wearing, previous injuries, the general health of the person, socially created and desired perceptions (men should take manly strides! women should sway!), and so on and so forth.

mShep and fShep have the same leg/height ratio, wear the same shoes, carry the same weight in armor and weapons,  have the same previous injuries, the same general health (presumably). What's left? Oh yeah - their pelvic bones are totally different from each other.

And I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be differences.  But there is no set rules, just... I guess general guidelines that determine how big or small a unique person's pelvis should be. The women on my mother's side of the family have extremely narrow pelvises- at least for women, whereas on my father's side, they're run of the mill.

As an example, the Caldwell-Moloy classification system of female pelvises, used to determine suitabilty to of vaginal childbirth, includes two types, the playpelliod and andriod types, that has some stereotypical male features. There is no one size fits all to the situation- Shepard may have a 'general' female pelvis, or she may not. Simplfying it to  'she's a woman, she has x sort' doesn't make sense when there are a wide range to begin with.

And I'm a bit confused as to the stats for the Sheps, seeing as they're not the same height and have different body shapes, which means they very well may carry different amounts of armour and have differing running patterns. The injuries thing I just threw in as an example; I doubt that in the MEverse, any sort of injury can't be sorted out. They probably don't have any issues with flat feet or different leg heights, either.

[Clonedzero]

Valentia X wrote...

Regarding the 'badass' aspect: Soldiers are trained to be uniform, and they are trained for power. While there should be allowances for things like basic body shape, center of gravity, etc, just because femShep is a female doesn't mean she hasn't learned to pack one hell of a punch. 'But most women can't hit that hard!' one might say. The news flash is neither can most men. It's not just biology. Shepard is a genetically altered, cybernetically enhanced soldier who has been through rigorous training for many years and is acknowledged as such.

right, but she's not a basic soldier. she's an N7, highly trained special forces. and they tend to train them for their strengths.

it would make perfect sense for femshep and maleshep to have completely different fighting styles simply based off musclemass and size.

remember, no one in this thread is doubting femsheps ability to kick major ass.

like if you want a specific example of what i mean.

situation: shepard is gonna fight this big merc dude in a fist fight.

male shep: the guy takes a swing at shepard. shepard grabs the guys arm, holds it. punches the dude in the throat, knees him in the gut, then elbows him in the spine.

femshep: the guy takes a swing at shepard. shepard grabs his arm, slams up into his elbow breaking the guys arm, proceeds to continue with the guys momentum to flip the guy over then stomps on his face.

both are pretty brutal, but they give each version of shepard their own feel and makes it more realistic in the way they fight. but then again cool stuff like that for either of them probably wont happen

[ReiSilver]

Valentia X wrote...

I got into a huge rant about this on the femshep animation thread, so if you've read it before, scroll.

Some of fem!Shep's animations are awkward simply because they don't make sense out of context; she has one running animation, which makes perfect sense in armour (aka for ninety percent of the game) but look rather bad when she's in her casual clothing, particularly that black leather dress you can get in Kasumi's loyalty mission. The same goes for some of the sitting situations, such as the much talked about eagle spread that seems to send people haywire. (For the record, women can and do sit as such- I'm one of them. It's more comfortable for me.)


On to the whole 'but women and men are shaped differently!' argument: there is basic sexual dimorphism, and there is 'women run this way, men run that way'. There are a whole host of things that determine how a person walks. This includes, but is not limited to, leg/height ratio, weight, amount being carried on a person, the sort of shoes you're wearing, previous injuries, the general health of the person, socially created and desired perceptions (men should take manly strides! women should sway!), and so on and so forth.


Regarding the 'badass' aspect: Soldiers are trained to be uniform, and they are trained for power. While there should be allowances for things like basic body shape, center of gravity, etc, just because femShep is a female doesn't mean she hasn't learned to pack one hell of a punch. 'But most women can't hit that hard!' one might say. The news flash is neither can most men. It's not just biology. Shepard is a genetically altered, cybernetically enhanced soldier who has been through rigorous training for many years and is acknowledged as such.

Attributing acts of aggression (re: the knuckle cracking and saying something threatening) as masculine is inherently nothing more than one societal view that has self-determined that aggression/dominance/the need to fight is something unique to maleness. Women can, and have, shown throughout history that it's not something specific to one gender- it's only commentary made by others that positions it as masculine, and an archaric societal standard that continues to posit that it's something solely 'manly', instead of a reaction that, in nature, both genders/sexes can and do display.

*applauds*

FenShep is one of my favourite game characters just the way she is.
I got into Mass Effect because of articles talking about how awesome it was to play a voiced female character that was treated the same as the male counter part, without being sexed up or 'feminised'. No midrif exposing armor, no high heels, she's a military woman out to save the galaxy! I prefer playing femShep to MaleShep, I can relate to her, I feel like I'm playing a female character that was meant for me to play as, not as an extra for guys to plays as so they could oggle a butt.

In Dragon age 2 they gave the Hawke's different walking/standing/idle/running animations that made playing Lady Hawke a pain in the ass for me, to see my badass/streetwise/tomboy rogue mincing or daintily checking her shoe or running in a way that makes my spine hurt. I feel like LadyHawke isn't there for me to play like Shepard is, she comes off as a performance rather then a real character. Thus I prefer playing Male Hawke, just to get away from those things. I'm only just now thinking of trying to play Lady Hawke with a mod that lets her run like a normal human being. (Too bad I can't fix the voice but that's another issue)

I really hope ME3 doesn't change the animations too much. There's nothing wrong with the way she sits, I sit like that all the time. PLEASE no mincing, no dainty, please let her keep running like a normal person and not a caricature of 'femininity'!

Shep aint got no time for gender performance, she's too busy kicking ass!

[tmp7704]

D.Kain wrote...

Ok so your saying a woman cant run straight?

It's probably better to watch some real people who actually run for living, than 3d stuff:



while there is some study-confirmed differences between the way males and females walk and run, something tells me when people talk about "females running" they have quite a different mental image than what can be seen at the link above. And these real differences are also quite a bit smaller than what they imagine.

[CrimsonNephilim]

twitter.com/#!/CaseyDHudson/status/72469181244780546

[Raiil]

Clonedzero wrote...



right, but she's not a basic soldier. she's an N7, highly trained special forces. and they tend to train them for their strengths.

I would argue that they train them for strength, period. N7s, at least as far as I can tell, are supposed to be the ultimate soldier. Strong, fast, intelligent (hell, apparently we can all hack Illium's systems and I doubt they're running the galactic version of Windows Vista)- Shepard needs to have it all. The amount of resources it would take to train each one individually in a specific prowess, no matter how small the N7 class may be, would still be ridiculous and a waste of time. All of our individuality comes from our class, not our 'basic training', as it were.

That is, however, just my opinion on the matter. 

[tmp7704]

Valentia X wrote...

I would argue that they train them for strength, period.

I think like most programs they simply have requirements for the N7 and you either meet them or not. Individual approach is waste of time and resources when they can instead simply pick a candidate who is built "compatible" for the standard training, and get equally good end effect.

[Hathur]

Clonedzero wrote...

it should be a believable character first.

i cant take femshep seriously because they have a 150 pound woman (probably less) acting like a damn linebacker.

you can have a tough and strong female character, just dont have them act like a dude, especially dont make them act like a dude 3 times her size.

Except that Shepard isn't just a 150lbs woman... she's a cyborg (Lazarus project clearly states so... and if that's not enough, loot at the damn mettalic red thingies in renegade shep's face)... also, if you bothered to read the description on the various in-game upgrades (noteably the body upgrades), you'd recall that Shepard has a reinforced skeleton and nano fibre weaving throughout all her muscles to allow her/him to hit with tremendous force in hand to hand (the melee damage upgrade I believe) and also withstand greater trauma to muscle tissue.

So while on the outside she looks like a 150lbs woman... beneath that skin is a ton of cybernetics and synthetic engineering that make her a helluva lot stronger than any ordinary man or woman.