335 réponses à ce sujet

[Massadonious1]

It already is fixed.

[Clonedzero]

ERJAK2 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

when i saw the vid of femshep in LotSB rushing the shadowbroker and slamming the shield i laughed at how silly it looked.

shoulda had a more believable scene/animation for femshep than brute forcing it like maleshep.

i agree with you, having her be super butch and do all the same actions as maleshep comes across as awkward and goofy.

What would you have had her done? Cry at him? Femshep, because of her upgrades, is physically at Krogan level strength. She can brute force anything she wants.

read the damn thread. damn people wtf?
i already said what i would have had her do... but i guess you cant be bothered to read so you're going to comment on a post on one or two rather than look to see if the damn post has been adressed.

and no. shepard is not at krogan level strength, whats wrong with you? stop making stuff up to suit your own needs...

[MissMaster]

ERJAK2 wrote...

this is a stupid argument and giving them unique sexier running animations or whatever would be a waste of resources.

The only dumber argument is the ashley catsuit thing.

I'm sorry to ****** off the female majority here but I really think they need to get a strong fit woman to do the motion capture for FemShep. She moved horribly when she was not fighting.

[CrimsonNephilim]

I'm a female gamer and play a female shepard. Where I can see where some people favor the idea of separate motion capture for both male and female Shepard, this whole argument has gotten out of hand.

[onelifecrisis]

tmp7704 wrote...

onelifecrisis wrote...

I said a masculine pelvis, not a masculine figure. Don't go all D.Kain on me now.

One is closely related to the other so i'm not seeing your point here. Specifically in the context of pelvis width affecting the running potential, "masculine pelvis" means one with less width, and  would consequently mean a figure with far less pronounced hip curve than the one we can observe.

If i need to put it in exact terms so you don't try to play semantics with me, the pelvis of the woman in the video i mentioned appears perfectly feminine. Apparently her other strengths were enough to allow her to be world-class sprinter just the same.

You're the one who tried playing with words, not me.

I'd like different animations for femshep and I've given damn good reasons why, with links. You've given rhetoric and a YouTube video of some sprinters. Last time I checked, this wasn't a sprinting game.

I really can't be bothered to produce further evidence of something that is so blindingly obvious as the fact that men and women walk differently. Google "sprinter pelvis" or "gait" or just any relevant term you like. Or carry on living in la la land. Either way, this conversation has passed it's point of productivity.

[Nashiktal]

Well to be fair both male and fem shep have the walking animation of a Gorilla with Chlamydia.

Still, it just doesn't seem right to have both male and fem shep share animations to such a degree. Having femshep awkwardly hold her legs open while talking to jacob (especially if you happen to talk to him when you just get back from the kasumi mission in that dress) just doesn't seem right to do without player input.

Still aside from taking control out of the players hands like that, men and women do have different bone structures. Women generally have wider hips, a more narrow rib cage, generally have less skeletal mass than a males (of course this can vary widely from person to person) limbs are thicker and larger in men, (Humerus, ulna, radius are anyways), mens phalanges, the bones in the fingers are generally bigger.

The same goes for the lower limbs, which are supported by the femur, tibla and fibula bones all are typically longer in men.

I mean, in general the male and female skeleton is just different. Even if a male and female were to somehow copy each others movements, there would still be differences. I'm not looking for a sultry sway or anything, but I would like the game to acknowledge the difference in gender outside of two or three lines of dialogue.

[Destroy Raiden_]

I can live with her cracking her knuckles (though I too would like it not so talk about needing calcium!) but the one thing that really starts me thinking ok she's really a guy crossdressing is when she starts punching yahg about like its nothing. I just can't suspend my belief on this one it would be the equivalent of mshep punching a reaper and winning the fight, or Ripley punching a Xenomorph and knocking it out I just can't believe it it's super movie magic and its really dumb.

I know she has metal bones now but all that means to me is she can lift the front end of a car with effort she can't pick up the whole care and toss it at someone like she's in some anime. Mshep for that matter couldn't do it either. I just wish they wouldn't do so uber manly fights with her maybe she could kick box the badguys as opposed to punching them in some cases.

[tmp7704]

onelifecrisis wrote...

You're the one who tried playing with words, not me.

Ehh, no? I made a presumption that you'd easily understand the relationship between what i was talking about (the person't body shape) and the factor at hand (the width of their pelvis) but that has nothing to do with word play, in my book.

I'd like different animations for femshep and I've given damn good reasons why, with links. You've given rhetoric and a YouTube video of some sprinters. Last time I checked, this wasn't a sprinting game.

My reply with the link to video was made to someone else, not you. As such, they weren't really related. It was to confirm the statement of person i was replying to, that women can actually run straight. As such, i consider it not "rhetoric" but rather factual evidence.

I really can't be bothered to produce further evidence of something that is so blindingly obvious as the fact that men and women walk differently.

I've never said they don't. What i actually said was:

"while there is some study-confirmed differences between the way males and females walk and run, something tells me when people talk about "females running" they have quite a different mental image than what can be seen at the link above. And these real differences are also quite a bit smaller than what they imagine."

is there any chance you're having me confused with some other poster in this thread, and are attributing to me their views?

[Eshaye]

Fiddles_stix wrote...

I'd like to see both FemShep and MShep with their own animations but if FemShep starts behaving in a limp-wristed fashion I will be extremely disappointed. She's a tough military chick and she act like it. I see no problem with that.

Yes absolutely. I would hate to see her personality changed, in that respect she's the same as Sheploo. But as most of you pointed out, it's not okay to have her use the same animations, part from the terrible clipping we're thrown into time after time in ME2 as Femshep, some of the moves are ridiculous on her. And I don't mean things like cracking her knuckles I mean moves that will have her arm at odd angles making it obvious these animations were not made for a model her shape and size. 

Other then that and my usual ranting over her sitting position in a dress, which has already been fixed in Shadow Broker, I'm good. I like Femshep like she is, badass, scary, mischevious and sometimes sweet. She has a lot of diversity, let's not mess with that. 

[Gabey5]

hell yes they were way off. Also the running made shepard look like a hunchback

[HTTP 404]

I think dialog choices should differientiate it how a character sounds. Thats one thing DA2 did well, sarcastic, serious, good Hawke sounded different. I wish Shepard sounded differently the higher paragon and renegade got. I guess a renegade female shepard would sound more masculine versus a more feminine paragon. Same could be said of the male shepard.

[cactusberry]

Eshaye wrote...

Fiddles_stix wrote...

I'd like to see both FemShep and MShep with their own animations but if FemShep starts behaving in a limp-wristed fashion I will be extremely disappointed. She's a tough military chick and she act like it. I see no problem with that.

Yes absolutely. I would hate to see her personality changed, in that respect she's the same as Sheploo. But as most of you pointed out, it's not okay to have her use the same animations, part from the terrible clipping we're thrown into time after time in ME2 as Femshep, some of the moves are ridiculous on her. And I don't mean things like cracking her knuckles I mean moves that will have her arm at odd angles making it obvious these animations were not made for a model her shape and size. 

Other then that and my usual ranting over her sitting position in a dress, which has already been fixed in Shadow Broker, I'm good. I like Femshep like she is, badass, scary, mischevious and sometimes sweet. She has a lot of diversity, let's not mess with that. 

This, exactly.

[KBomb]

crimzontearz wrote...

I have seen some female marines fresh out of camp Lejeune (or however the hell you spell it)..they still walked like girls in their civvies so.................

Indeed. I have a good friend who is a marine and she probably could punch someone’s teeth in. Yet, she is very feminine. Kind of silly to think because you went through extensive bad-ass camp you have to be G.I. Jane.

[onelifecrisis]

tmp7704 wrote...

I've never said they don't. What i actually said was:

"while there is some study-confirmed differences between the way males and females walk and run, something tells me when people talk about "females running" they have quite a different mental image than what can be seen at the link above. And these real differences are also quite a bit smaller than what they imagine."

is there any chance you're having me confused with some other poster in this thread, and are attributing to me their views?

I already replied to the bold bits, a couple of pages ago. This is what I said (I've italicised the bit that I feel is relevant):

Those are world class 200m sprinters. Their pelvic bones will be as masculine as a woman's can be.
http://en.wikipedia....ors_for_runners

Let me be clear: I do not want some sex kitten femShep. I just want one that doesn't break my immersion with every other movement she makes.

You ignored the italicised bit and went on about sprinters.

[tmp7704]

onelifecrisis wrote...

You ignored the italicised bit and went on about sprinters.

Yes, you have questioned validity of the video and i in turn questioned whether your counter-point was as universal as you were making it sound. Seeing how at least one of the runners in the video has "feminine" body that's quite similar to female Shepard, meaning it's quite valid to think Shepard could have a matching skeletal structure, and be capable of running in very similar manner. I.e. far from what people tend to imagine when they talk about "female running".

[tmp7704]

KBomb wrote...

Indeed. I have a good friend who is a marine and she probably could punch someone’s teeth in. Yet, she is very feminine. Kind of silly to think because you went through extensive bad-ass camp you have to be G.I. Jane.

I think the point is the opposite if anything -- you don't have to be G.I. Jane if you went through the training camp but you can be one, and you don't have to be a "girly girl" if you're a female. No matter if you can punch the teeth in or not.

Modifié par tmp7704, 13 juin 2011 - 04:16 .

[Fhaileas]

octoberfire wrote...

I liked FemShep best in the first Mass Effect. It just felt like in ME2 they "butch-ified" her to an extreme and there was definitely a marked difference in JH's intonation when she delivered her lines.

That is EXACTLY how I feel as well... as much as I adored Hale's VO in ME1, I felt her performance in ME2 was relatively subpar. Without going into the intricacies of gendered social norms and traits, in ME1 there was nothing awkward or dissonant about FemShep's mannerisms -- she personified my ideal -- a strong woman who did not conform to (what is deemed) a male-centric military orientation and was completely at ease with both her gender and military stature to not let one compromise the other. Although the latter could also be attributed perhaps to the gender-wise egalitarian society of the future.

[KBomb]

tmp7704 wrote...

I think the point is the opposite if anything -- you don't have to be G.I. Jane if you went through the training camp but you can be one, and you don't have to be a "girly girl" if you're a female. No matter if you can punch the teeth in or not.

I thought the point was you could be a G.I. Jane, but you don’t have to be one. You can be the antithesis of girlie-girl, but you can be one, especially if you are one. I thought that was the wonderful thing about “feminism” (a term that has lost it’s true meaning) is to empower women to be whatever they want--whether it’s a woman who straps on a gun and lip gloss, or a woman who shaves her head bald and drapes herself in body art. Why do people--especially other women--have to tear down other women? By saying “I don’t want a woman who is dainty, my Shep is too busy saving the world to worry about such nonsense!” you are saying any woman who wants to do, or would worry about such things are in the wrong. Their ideals are wrong because they don’t fit into a stereotype of what you envision as a strong, viral female soldier. You're doing the exact same thing you are arguing against.

Like I said, I don’t think they should change femShep’s personality, or her character. I don’t think giving her separate animations from her male counterpart is asking her to give up everything she stands for. I think it’s a simple request that has spiraled into a huge ball of pseudo sexism and in some cases insults, when it really doesn’t need to be. And by Casey Hudson's tweet, I assume it's an issue that has been fixed.

Modifié par KBomb, 13 juin 2011 - 04:34 .

[tmp7704]

KBomb wrote...

I thought the point was you could be a G.I. Jane, but you don’t have to be one.

Yes; i suppose it depends on how you look at it, but from my point of view female Shepard is exercising this option, while the calls to make her "more feminine" are effectively saying she can't (isn't allowed to) be the way she is at the moment. 

I thought that was the wonderful thing about “feminism” (a term that has lost it’s true meaning) is to empower women to be whatever they want--whether it’s a woman who straps on a gun and lip gloss, or a woman who shaves her head bald and drapes herself in body art.

Pretty much. I consider Shepard to be the way she wants. Personally, i also appreciate she isn't conforming to what's effectively a stereotype in the games/movies at the moment, that is the "tough" female characters who are still extensively sexualized in case the audience was unable to notice these characters are actually women.

[KBomb]

tmp7704 wrote...

Yes; i suppose it depends on how you look at it, but from my point of view female Shepard is exercising this option, while the calls to make her "more feminine" are effectively saying she can't (isn't allowed to) be the way she is at the moment. 

Pretty much. I consider Shepard to be the way she wants. Personally, i also appreciate she isn't conforming to what's effectively a stereotype in the games/movies at the moment, that is the "tough" female characters who are still extensively sexualized in case the audience was unable to notice these characters are actually women.

Well, I can’t really speak for the ones who want her to change her mannerisms. I don’t mind her knuckle popping, or punching people. I do think the way she sat, or the way she walked (especially) needs to be modeled after an actual female. Her animations are the same as Shepard’s and I don’t believe that was done to give her more edge, it was done as an oversight or as crimsontearz said (sorry if I spelled his name wrong). Had she always walked that way, that would be different. I wouldn’t even say she walked like a man in ME2--her walk was just…broke. It needs to be modeled after a female not because she needs “womaning up”, it needs to be modeled after a female because well, that’s what she is.

[tmp7704]

KBomb wrote...

I do think the way she sat, or the way she walked (especially) needs to be modeled after an actual female. Her animations are the same as Shepard’s and I don’t believe that was done to give her more edge, it was done as an oversight or as crimsontearz said (sorry if I spelled his name wrong). Had she always walked that way, that would be different. I wouldn’t even say she walked like a man in ME2--her walk was just…broke. It needs to be modeled after a female not because she needs “womaning up”, it needs to be modeled after a female because well, that’s what she is.

I guess this one in a way depends on how you look at it, too. Female Shepard and male Shepard walked like each other both in ME and ME2. So it's not like female Shepard is the only one who walks different out of sudden in the sequel, the male Shepard does, too. And yes that walk (especially, the run to lesser degree) is pretty odd, they seem to be limping a bit. But maybe that's deliberate to reflect that the character was rebuilt from scratch or something, i don't know.

Also, since in a sense female Shepard's walk was never "modeled after a female" i don't feel a burning need that's something that has to change for the next game. Yes, she's a female but apparently a one with peculiar manner of walking. Whether that's because she has atypical bone structure or for any other reason... that doesn't really matter; she's the way she is.

(mainly hesitant of the potential Ashley effect that i'd fully expect as result of such tweaks)

Modifié par tmp7704, 13 juin 2011 - 05:05 .

[TaHol100]

So OP, you don't see human, you see a man or a woman. I'm a woman, and your writing made me angry, thanks for that. I did only one playthrough as a fem-Shep, and I'm damn happy she was not a damsell in distress. If male-Shep takes a leak when standing, I want fem-Shep do the same without sitting. You have an image in your head how women should be, and you want the world to fit in it. Be glad you haven't met me.

[Nexpeed]

I have no problems with the femshep acting like brute, my gf has some similar manners but is still very much feminine, i won't have problems if they did an athletic build muscular femshep as i want her to look as if she really can really run-gun around and carry that so-called heavy weapon for much of the time as one's body will develop as required of activity.... but i do wish femshep would have an added animation a bit closer to like a femhawke while retaining the old mannerisms