52 réponses à ce sujet

[Blitzkrieg0811]

Mr.House wrote...

Now if all ships have a Thanix cannon, then yes, the Reapers would be at a huge disadvantage but I doubt that will happen.

The codex for the Thanix cannon says it was developed by the Turian military. It makes you wonder why it ISN'T on all of the Council's ships if it only costs 25k units of platinum.

[Paulinius]

mrsph wrote...

It was the quarian fleet in the demo (it took place on Rannoch)

But Reapers are immune to Dreadnaught fire according to EDI anyway.

Ohhhh. Thanks for that. I thought I heard Joker say Turian, which I must have confused for Quarian. 

[Mr.House]

nitrog100 wrote...
Hate to break it to you but I just finished it again less than a week ago. Just because the cutscene started right after Saren died doesn't mean that you're the one that brought down the shields. Could it be that just maybe in the 2+ minutes that the entire Arcturus fleet plus any surviving Turian and Asari vessels were firing at Sovereign, they did some actual damage? Look it up. I think canon is that it was the fleet that took down Sovereign.

The ships where not even firing when Sovies shields went down and it became paralized. I just watched the ending to make sure and the shield goes down right after the husk death, paralized Sovie and no one is firing.

Modifié par Mr.House, 13 juin 2011 - 01:18 .

[Paulinius]

mrsph wrote...

Not to mention Harbinger assumes control of the Collector General, and then controls another Collector. There is probably a good reason he doesn't do it without the General.

And why he released control of the Collector General before the destruction of the collector base. He didn't want to end up like Sovereign.

[GnusmasTHX]

If they had a dreadnought-sized version, yes.

[Mr.House]

mrsph wrote...

Not to mention Harbinger assumes control of the Collector General, and then controls another Collector. There is probably a good reason he doesn't do it without the General.

If anything the death of the Collector might shake Harby but not enough damage to do severly injure him, if you notice there is a time gap when you beat a controlled Collector and before the General takes controll of another.

[Mr.House]

Paulinius wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Not to mention Harbinger assumes control of the Collector General, and then controls another Collector. There is probably a good reason he doesn't do it without the General.

And why he released control of the Collector General before the destruction of the collector base. He didn't want to end up like Sovereign.

Also this, everything points that if a husk dies while still in control of a Reaper, it can do ALOT of damage, not death but the shutdown of shields and systems can open up a Reaper to be destroyed.

[1136342t54_]

To be honest even when Sovereign's shields went down it was still taking the firepower of what was left of the Alliance fleet and it was intact. Right when the Shields went down Admiral Hackett said "Hit it with everything we got." All of those cruisers its armor in the front and didn't even core it. Somehow the Normandy had a uber disruptor torpedo that destroyed the Reaper.

All in all a Thanix Cannon wouldn't even tickle a Reaper. Actually they would likely be wondering how the hell we are using Thanix cannons.

[nitrog100]

Mr.House wrote...

nitrog100 wrote...
Hate to break it to you but I just finished it again less than a week ago. Just because the cutscene started right after Saren died doesn't mean that you're the one that brought down the shields. Could it be that just maybe in the 2+ minutes that the entire Arcturus fleet plus any surviving Turian and Asari vessels were firing at Sovereign, they did some actual damage? Look it up. I think canon is that it was the fleet that took down Sovereign.

The ships where not even firing when Sovies shields went down and it became paralized. I just watched the ending to make sure and the shield goes down right after the husk death, paralized Sovie and no one is firing.

I used to think that it was Saren too, but it just doesn't make much sense. I watched the cutscene too, and none of the ships are firing, but that also doesn't make any sense. Why would they stop firing? At the very least, we know that the Reaper body itself isn't very resilient. We've never seen the Thanix cannon go up against Reaper shields, so we can just assume that they'll go through without any precedent. There are plenty of holes in the whole thing, so can't we just pretend?

[Mr.House]

1136342t54 wrote...

To be honest even when Sovereign's shields went down it was still taking the firepower of what was left of the Alliance fleet and it was intact. Right when the Shields went down Admiral Hackett said "Hit it with everything we got." All of those cruisers its armor in the front and didn't even core it. Somehow the Normandy had a uber disruptor torpedo that destroyed the Reaper.

All in all a Thanix Cannon wouldn't even tickle a Reaper. Actually they would likely be wondering how the hell we are using Thanix cannons.

Could be the Normandy hit a part in it's "belly" that is not well protected.

Modifié par Mr.House, 13 juin 2011 - 01:29 .

[Mr.House]

nitrog100 wrote...

I used to think that it was Saren too, but it just doesn't make much sense. I watched the cutscene too, and none of the ships are firing, but that also doesn't make any sense. Why would they stop firing? At the very least, we know that the Reaper body itself isn't very resilient. We've never seen the Thanix cannon go up against Reaper shields, so we can just assume that they'll go through without any precedent. There are plenty of holes in the whole thing, so can't we just pretend?

I look at it this way, Sovie had to put alot of it's power to control Sarens corpse. Think of the death of Saren husk as breaking a bunch of your bones. If you fall off a tree, break a bunch of bones you can't do anything, then all of a sudden a lion comes out of nowhere and attacks you, you can't protect your self so you die. That's what happen. Something had to happen that caused Sovie to be severly injured to the point where it could no lnoger protect it self. It's possible that Sovie put too much of his control into Saren and was crippled.

[Paulinius]

nitrog100 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

nitrog100 wrote...
Hate to break it to you but I just finished it again less than a week ago. Just because the cutscene started right after Saren died doesn't mean that you're the one that brought down the shields. Could it be that just maybe in the 2+ minutes that the entire Arcturus fleet plus any surviving Turian and Asari vessels were firing at Sovereign, they did some actual damage? Look it up. I think canon is that it was the fleet that took down Sovereign.

The ships where not even firing when Sovies shields went down and it became paralized. I just watched the ending to make sure and the shield goes down right after the husk death, paralized Sovie and no one is firing.

I used to think that it was Saren too, but it just doesn't make much sense. I watched the cutscene too, and none of the ships are firing, but that also doesn't make any sense. Why would they stop firing? At the very least, we know that the Reaper body itself isn't very resilient. We've never seen the Thanix cannon go up against Reaper shields, so we can just assume that they'll go through without any precedent. There are plenty of holes in the whole thing, so can't we just pretend?

I hope so. It would kindof suck to be unable to kill a single Reaper in ME3 with conventional means. We should be able to take out at least a few before Shepard finds some way to help take them down. It would be a good morale booster and can show the other races we actually have some type of a chance.

[nitrog100]

I don't think Bioware ever thought that we would be analyzing that little stretch of the game to this extent...It would really uber suck if killing a Reaper were that difficult in ME3. Hopefully the upgrades on the Normandy have been implemented on a ton of other ships by now. That would completely explain any change in Reaper killability. If they could explain away the stupid thermal clip system, they can do the same for this.

[GnusmasTHX]

And concerning whether or not Saren-husks death was responsible for Sovereign being incapacitated and being destroyed by the Normandy, let's look at the facts/time line of events:

1. After Sovereign attaches itself to the spire, the combined fleet attacks to absolutely ZERO effect. Hackett says, "it's too strong, pull back" or something like that. That is why in the following scenes, before Joker calls shields down, NO ONE is firing upon Sovereign.

2. When Saren-husk dies he dissipates into red electric-fire, concurrently Sovereign itself is enveloped in red electricity AS WELL. Now the important part: Nothing of the sort suggests that Sovereign's shields simply failed due to prolonged fire, NO ONE WAS SHOOTING AT HIM AT THIS POINT. If his shields simply failed, he probably wouldn't have "fallen" off the Citadel spire like a comatose cuttlefish.

3. Only AFTER Sovereign is engulfed in red electricity and falls off the spire does Joker call shields down, and the fleet re-engages, as Hackett commands. The Normandy is able to kill-steal, apparently, by shooting a weak spot on Sovereign's "back".

Does BioWare really need to spell it out for you? Saren-husks death is the cause of Sovereign becoming "incapacitated" during the battle (not only was his shields down, Sovereign's body itself was knocked out cold), which was what allowed the fleets to destroy his dreadnought form.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 13 juin 2011 - 01:39 .

[Fleetleader101]

The short answer is no, that cannon would not be sufficient, but is it going to be a help, you betchya!

[Mr.House]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

And concerning whether or not Saren-husks death was responsible for Sovereign being incapacitated and being destroyed by the Normandy, let's look at the facts/time line of events:

1. After Sovereign attaches itself to the spire, the combined fleet attacks to absolutely ZERO effect. Hackett says, "it's too strong, pull back" or something like that. That is why in the following scenes, before Joker calls shields down, NO ONE is firing upon Sovereign.

2. When Saren-husk dies he dissipates into red electric-fire, concurrently Sovereign itself is enveloped in red electricity AS WELL. Now the important part: Nothing of the sort suggests that Sovereign's shields simply failed due to prolonged fire, NO ONE WAS SHOOTING AT HIM AT THIS POINT. If his shields failed, he probably wouldn't have "fallen" off the Citadel spire like a comatose cuttlefish.

3. Only AFTER Sovereign is engulfed in red electricity and falls off the spire does Joker call shields down, and the fleet re-engages, as Hackett commands. The Normandy is able to kill-steal, apparently, by shooting a weak spot on Sovereign's "back".

Does BioWare really need to spell it out for you? Saren-husks death is the cause of Sovereign becoming "incapacitated" during the battle, which was what allowed the fleets to destroy his dreadnought form.

You also forget that Sovie was falling as the red energy was happening

[Aloren]

I think it can kill reapers... it has to in fact. I mean, it's probably the most powerful weapon on earth's side, so it has to be able to take down reapers. There are hundreds of reapers, probably thousands, sure they're tough, but they can't be invincible, or else it would be impossible to win..
It's kinda like imperial cruisers in star wars, they overpowered, but you can still take them down.

I also think the destiny ascension should be able to take down a few small reapers on its own. It would be useless if it didn't.

[Admoniter]

Aloren wrote...

I think it can kill reapers... it has to in fact. I mean, it's probably the most powerful weapon on earth's side, so it has to be able to take down reapers. There are hundreds of reapers, probably thousands, sure they're tough, but they can't be invincible, or else it would be impossible to win..
It's kinda like imperial cruisers in star wars, they overpowered, but you can still take them down.

I also think the destiny ascension should be able to take down a few small reapers on its own. It would be useless if it didn't.

Why? It's Reaper tech, you don't think that in the process of creating the Thanix they developed specific defenses to it just incase this very situation happened?

[RAF1940]

I highly doubt it.

[_Sylar_]

Maybe a leg...or two,but lets be serious!A whole Reaper..no way!
Somehow I think that an important part of the game will be gaining some kind of weapon..among uniting the whole galaxy...
Well only time will tell

[SkittlesKat96]

I think multiple Thanix cannons probably could take out a Reaper. Emphasis on multiple.

I think people have forgetten though that the Citadel races have lots and lots of Dreadnoughts they can use against the Reapers.

When Sovereign attacked the Citadel the Ascension was alone, unprepared and overwhelmed by tons and tons of Geth ships, not to mention most of the Citadel fleet was pretty much gone.

Thanix cannons, faster ships, massive fleets, lots of Dreadnoughts, lots of ground warfare and orbital strikes will do a lot of damage to the Reapers.

EDIT: What the heck? Why are people still arguing over the Saren-husk dying incapacitating Sovereign? That was debunked ages ago (pre-ME2) by the devs

EDITEDIT: That said though I think when a Reaper "assumes direct control" of something (Saren,  a collector or a huskified alien) it focuses its attention on the thing its controlling and the Reaper self is weaker

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 13 juin 2011 - 03:11 .

[Aloren]

Admoniter wrote...

Why? It's Reaper tech, you don't think that in the process of creating the Thanix they developed specific defenses to it just incase this very situation happened?

Specific defense doesn't mean immunity. And reapers are so full of themselves that I'm not even sure they thought about "just in case". And even in they did, just cause you build a gun doesn't mean it cannot kill you.

But anyway, what I meant is that it's the end of the trilogy, there are dozens of reapers, and shepard is out galavanting the galaxy, looking for help. So, sure, the Alliance won't be able to kick the reapers, but I cannot imagine them resisting for weeks while Shepard is trying to find backup if they cannot even kill one reaper... 

It's nice to think about them as allmighty invincible sentient godlike machines, but well, if they are all over 9000 and couldn't care less about the the current arsenal and fleet of the galaxy, then I have a hard time picturing the sudden discovery of a weapon that would so radically reverse the odds just like that. I think it would look more "natural" if they already had the power to take them down (very few of course) but lacked the number...

The only possibility I can think of to explain a change from complete helplessness to kicking ass is if they pulled an Independence Day. I sure hope they don't though, I couldn't handle to see shepard pluging a usb flash drive up harbinger's ass and say "tada, flawless victory".

[ERJAK2]

Stardusk78 wrote...

If it was enough to take out the Collector ship, couldn't it also take out a Reaper? Doesn't the Normandy still have one in ME3?

No the thanix  cannon can only be fit on cruiser or smaller ships. A full size reaper would be hurt but not severly.