131 réponses à ce sujet

[Whatever42]

Dave666 wrote...
Sure, there are hundreds of billions of stars and trillions of planets, but you can rule out all but a miniscule percentage of them (I'm talking .000000000000000000000000001% probably a lot more zero's).  I say that we can rule them out because how are the Salarians going to get to them?  If they don't use Cryogenic Suspension then there are food considerations and if they do there's the uncertainty of how long a Cryo Pod could keep someone alive, which means that they can't gat that far really.  So the Reapers spread their nets wider than normal until they've got them and while they're at it they wipe out any species that they find that haven't reached Space Flight yet.  Not a problem for the Reapers really.  

So the next Cycle takes 200,000 years instead of the usual 50,000 years.  What does a few hundred thousand years matter to a race that is 37,000,000 years old?

Remember our technology level here.  And we have quite a bit of time to organize and act. This doesn't have to be spur of the moment. Logistics can be handled.

As for whether it takes 200,000 years makes a huge difference. Give an intelligent, very technologically advanced race a few thousand years and they'll prepare some pretty nasty surprises for you.

You're placing a hell of a lot of faith in the Reapers not finding these Salarians, or the Reapers just 'giving up', when what we learned from Vigil indicates that they are very methodical and meticulous.  They would be unlikely to give up if it meant that the next Cycle would have a warning.  I doubt they want to go through all this again anytime soon.

As for the Hibernation thing...Thats pure speculation from Vigil, he said that the Prothean Scientists hypothesised that the Reapers underwent 'long periods of inactivity', the fact of the matter is that its pure supposition.  We don't know what the Reapers do in Dark Space for 50,000 years, for all we know they could be out there constantly working on new Technology or looking at old technology and seeing how it might be improved.  We just don't know.

I'm not placing a lot of faith in anything. Space is HUGE. If several species scattered, creating several colonies, or just staying on the move, the Reapers would face a nightmare in finding them all. Actually, I would say it was statisically impossible. 

As far as the Reapers staying ahead in the technology arms race  - there is likely a cap here and after 37 million years, if the Reapers were out there researching then I suspect they've hit it.

But yes, I am making deductions about the Reapers as are you.  

[stysiaq]

formshifter wrote...

 Well, there WAS a gun that could one-shot a reaper from a few million years ago. Maybe something on a similar scale or a restored version of it? 

There's also the possibility of infiltrating a Reaper and destroying it from the inside. Then again, the game has us shooting a reaper with a standard heavy caliber machine gun. . . . so yeah.

Thats because this gun was well callibrated.

If Garrus manages to callibrate ALL the guns before Reapers arrive, we will survive.

Otherwise, not a chance.

Seriously? I think infiltration & destroying from the inside. Using some kind of impact-pods. Or a Deus Ex Machina, although I don't think that BioWare will screw it this way. 
The fleets won't do much damage, cause it's obvious that Shepard must be the Galaxy's savior. Also, several ships could bring down one Reaper suffering heavy losses, and only because he was practically dead, when we destroyed it's 'avatar'.
Well, I dunno, maybe if you max out persuasion or intimidation you can just call all the invasion off.

[levannar]

HTTP 404 wrote...

FluffyScarf wrote...

Blowing up the Sun? Too similar to Revenge of the Fallen.

I never saw that.

In ROTF, the villain wants to harvest the sun's energy to save his own people from extinction. I'd say that's quite different than using it as a weapon. <_<

EDIT: To stay on topic, I think the Protheans bought us a better chance than any other species had. Still, it'd be at best a terrible war. It's more likely that we'd lose eventually.

Modifié par levannar, 13 juin 2011 - 08:49 .

[DaBigDragon]

The only thing going for us is that the Reapers used a lot of energy just getting to the galaxy.

Other than that, the only clue we have that we have any chance of stopping the Reapers is from the planet description of the planet Klencory from Mass Effect 1:
"Klencory[/b] is a rock and ice planet
with an atmosphere composed of chlorine and argon. The frozen surface is
mainly composed of potassium with deposits of iron.
Klencory is famously claimed by the eccentric volus
billionaire Kumun Shol. He claims that a vision of a higher being told
him to seek on Klencory the "lost crypts of beings of light." These
entities were supposedly created at the dawn of time to protect organic
life from synthetic "machine devils."
Shol has been excavating on Klencory's toxic surface for two
decades, at great expense. No government has valued the world enough to
evict his small army of mercenaries"

[Grkljan]

Skilled Seeker wrote...

No. Not with what we know so far. Expect a Deus Ex Machina.

Not Deus Ex Machina, just Deus Ex     No happy ending, they are all good and bad at the same time.

[DCarter]

DaBigDragon wrote...

The only thing going for us is that the Reapers used a lot of energy just getting to the galaxy.

Other than that, the only clue we have that we have any chance of stopping the Reapers is from the planet description of the planet Klencory from Mass Effect 1:
"Klencory[/b] is a rock and ice planet
with an atmosphere composed of chlorine and argon. The frozen surface is
mainly composed of potassium with deposits of iron.
Klencory is famously claimed by the eccentric volus
billionaire Kumun Shol. He claims that a vision of a higher being told
him to seek on Klencory the "lost crypts of beings of light." These
entities were supposedly created at the dawn of time to protect organic
life from synthetic "machine devils."
Shol has been excavating on Klencory's toxic surface for two
decades, at great expense. No government has valued the world enough to
evict his small army of mercenaries"

Never seen that quote before, extremely interesting. 

Modifié par DCarter, 13 juin 2011 - 09:03 .

[-Severian-]

I have a theory, or perhaps an idea, to offer up. Based on one of Harbingers' quotes "We are your salvation through destruction", I've entertained the thought that the Reapers are simply an extremist form of protection from something else. Specifically, they were built by a long dead race who were losing a war with... something, to protect themselves in an immortal shell. Maybe something linked to the dark energy that keeps cropping up in ME2, such as Haestrom's Sun.

I could see something like this, in which we somehow trick the Reapers into a direct confrontation with their enemy and bring in the united races to mop up the sorely hammered remainder. This is all sheer guesswork and a possibility, but I do think that however we stop them will have something to do with dark energy - it crops up too often in ME2 to be simply ignored. Haestrom's Sun, Parasini references it, Wrex makes mention of it...

[Elvis_Mazur]

Certainly not.

[SamT3N7]

DaBigDragon wrote...

The only thing going for us is that the Reapers used a lot of energy just getting to the galaxy.

Other than that, the only clue we have that we have any chance of stopping the Reapers is from the planet description of the planet Klencory from Mass Effect 1:
"Klencory[/b] is a rock and ice planet
with an atmosphere composed of chlorine and argon. The frozen surface is
mainly composed of potassium with deposits of iron.
Klencory is famously claimed by the eccentric volus
billionaire Kumun Shol. He claims that a vision of a higher being told
him to seek on Klencory the "lost crypts of beings of light." These
entities were supposedly created at the dawn of time to protect organic
life from synthetic "machine devils."
Shol has been excavating on Klencory's toxic surface for two
decades, at great expense. No government has valued the world enough to
evict his small army of mercenaries"

I don't understand why, of all the races in the galaxy, they show this message to a volus.

[Medhia Nox]

Okay - the Reapers are super arrogant.

Harbinger (presumably) even tells Shepard he is 'dust against a cosmic wind'.

I'm sorry - but the thought to be "cautious" would never enter into their vast minds. UNLESS they knew that they were vulnerable on some level.

SO - they know they can be defeated, but they orchestrated this whole: "We sneak attack and destroy all galactic government on Citadel." and believe they are safe.

Until Protheans + Shepard ruin that. Now - they're going to have to take the universe the hard way.

I'm sorry - I don't think Bioware ever wrote the Reapers as all powerful... I think some people just assume that's the way it is because they're so accustomed to uber-villains. ((And yes, if I'm a vastly more powerful creature - I'm going to tell you there's no way to stop me. That doesn't make it true.))

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 13 juin 2011 - 10:20 .

[NYG1991]

Probably some device that disables their shields. Once those are down they're not invincible.

Also they seem to rely on ground tactics so could be infiltrated planetside.

[MinotaurWarrior]

I don't think the races of the galaxy have any chance against the reapers in a straight-up space battle, but It might be possible to doom them to defeat by destroying the mass relay network & the citadel, screwing up their plan for the next cycle.

But for humanity to survive, we're going to need a ME3 McGuffin.

[outlaw1109]

Klencory Wikia Page


I happen to think that, as interesting as it would be to meet these beings, the 'Chekov's Gun' here is LITERALLY some sort of weapon.  Due, in large part, to the fact that the discription of the planet describes "Crypts" of these beings.  There is the possibility that something else can be learned about the reapers from the crypts, but I think it's much more likely that a weapon to disable them is found or at least blueprints to said weapon.

But, yes, I'm a firm believer in this theory...there is a small chance that it was put in as something intended to mislead, but I doubt it...it's just so subtle...

(I haven't scoured the galaxy enough in ME2 to know whether or not Klencory is present)

Modifié par outlaw1109, 13 juin 2011 - 10:31 .

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

We challenge them to a rock off.
When we win they all have to go die in a black hole.

Problem solved.

[mineralica]

There's no way to stop the Reapers if they're so huge in number and at least one - Harbinger - is as strong as Sovereign

[Iakus]

SamT3N7 wrote...

DaBigDragon wrote...

The only thing going for us is that the Reapers used a lot of energy just getting to the galaxy.

Other than that, the only clue we have that we have any chance of stopping the Reapers is from the planet description of the planet Klencory from Mass Effect 1:
"Klencory[/b] is a rock and ice planet
with an atmosphere composed of chlorine and argon. The frozen surface is
mainly composed of potassium with deposits of iron.
Klencory is famously claimed by the eccentric volus
billionaire Kumun Shol. He claims that a vision of a higher being told
him to seek on Klencory the "lost crypts of beings of light." These
entities were supposedly created at the dawn of time to protect organic
life from synthetic "machine devils."
Shol has been excavating on Klencory's toxic surface for two
decades, at great expense. No government has valued the world enough to
evict his small army of mercenaries"

I don't understand why, of all the races in the galaxy, they show this message to a volus.

A volus that found another beacon?  Or a similar artifact?

[Bnol]

I find it funny all the people saying it is going to be a Deus Ex Machina.  There are several obvious sources, that have been alluded to in ME1 and 2 for the galaxy to win the war. 

The Geth:
There is no evidence that the reapers have dealt with an inorganic species like the geth.  Further, the Geth have had direct contact and presumably information sharing with Sovereign.  Which means they likely have information of Reaper offensive and defensive capabilities.  They also know that defeating the Reapers is the only way they will have a future, and thus are likely devoting their entire existence to defeating the "Old Gods".  Further, the way in which Geth can communicate and transfer data at light speed would mean that they could advance technology at a speed that is almost incomprehensible.  Thus, even in the short period of time they could have developed weaponry that is effective against the Reapers, or at least more effective than current Human and Turian weaponry.  We also know that the Reapers wanted to convert the Geth with the virus. Which means that they feared that the Geth were going to be a threat, or planned to have the Geth be the ground forces instead of using indoctrinated organics.

The Rachni:
Again, another species that appears to develop outside of the Reaper's plans.  We are told that the Sovereign tainted the songs of the Rachni to start a war with the rest of the galaxy.  Thus it is likely that Sovereign feared that the Rachni were dangerous if they were allowed to develop, and thus decided to pit the rest of the Galaxy against them to wipe them out without having to start the invasion of the Reapers prematurely.  If you saved the Rachni queen you have another potential ally that has developed outside of the Reaper's plans.  Likely the Rachni would have evolved or developed a defense to indoctrination, or the souring of their song.  With this it might be possible to disrupt the organic "Nation" within Reapers and weaken and destroy them from the inside.

Quarian Fleet:
Certainly most of the Turian and Human fleets were destroyed, by one Reaper.  However, there is also the massive Quarian fleet to consider.  The fleet is huge, and it has been making preparations to go to war with the Geth, which means it must be arming itself and advancing technology for that purpose.  Not only would this bolster the galaxy's number of ships, but the Quarian's will also have the knowledge and technology to survive a prolonged existence in space in case the galaxy must run from the Reapers.  This prolonged running could be a way to starve the Reapers out. 

Collector Base:
The collector base also provides potential advancements for the war against the reapers.  Although with seeing the info that is out there now likely leads at least in part to the indoctrination of Cerberus personnel.  But there is still potential that some of that information made its way to the Council or the Alliance and will be used against the Reapers.

Strength of the Reapers:
We don't know the strength of individual reapers.  It could be that Sovereign is the Krogan of the Reapers, in terms of battle strength, since we see that Reapers take on characteristics of their organic species.  Thus it is not necessarily true that all reapers are of the same combat abilitites.  Further, this strength is likely sapped through having to travel to the Galaxy using more conventional drives instead of the Citadel Relay.  The Reapers also must not utilize their full strength.  They cannot completely annihilate all life, because it is apparent that they need life to support their existence.  You can't harvest wheat with a flamethrower.  Sure, they might be able to win the war, but they would doom themselves in the process, and life will spring anew without the Reapers returning (which could be a possible ending).

Combining these factors definitely gives the galaxy the ability to defeat the Reapers.  The writers don't have to pull anything out of their asses to make it believable. 

Modifié par Bnol, 14 juin 2011 - 12:06 .

[Medhia Nox]

There are so many reasons why the Reapers are at a disadvantage this time - I believe it should be obvious that no Deus Ex is needed.

[nitrog100]

I was just watching the e3 livestream again and I couldn't help but notice something important. When the Quarian fleet fires on the Reaper, it's shields are brought down with one shot. If you watch carefully, the same red electricity thing that happened with Sovereign happens with the smaller Reaper.

[Medhia Nox]

Well... people think that tech can be like magic... limitless. Which of course, isn't true.

Guns... are guns. Metal is metal. It doesn't matter how "advanced" you are - eventually there's a leveling off.

Remember - the Reapers purposefully give organics their tech to control their advancement. That's a huge mistake - break that mold and do something the Reapers don't expect (like a Thanix cannon) and the Reapers die like any other war vessel.

[Paulinius]

Simple. Move an "endpoint" mass relay into a hazardous area, like just inside a black hole or near the surface of a star.

Then somehow lure in a large part of the Reaper forces to go through the relay. It's a suicide mission and it may be difficult to get the Reapers to take the bait, but they'll be in for a surprise after the jump.

[JoltDealer]

If our attacks were coordinated and strategic, we could beat them.

[SamT3N7]

outlaw1109 wrote...

Klencory Wikia Page


I happen to think that, as interesting as it would be to meet these beings, the 'Chekov's Gun' here is LITERALLY some sort of weapon.  Due, in large part, to the fact that the discription of the planet describes "Crypts" of these beings.  There is the possibility that something else can be learned about the reapers from the crypts, but I think it's much more likely that a weapon to disable them is found or at least blueprints to said weapon.

But, yes, I'm a firm believer in this theory...there is a small chance that it was put in as something intended to mislead, but I doubt it...it's just so subtle...

(I haven't scoured the galaxy enough in ME2 to know whether or not Klencory is present)

Klencory is in ME1.

[Schneidend]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Well... people think that tech can be like magic... limitless. Which of course, isn't true.

Guns... are guns. Metal is metal. It doesn't matter how "advanced" you are - eventually there's a leveling off.

Remember - the Reapers purposefully give organics their tech to control their advancement. That's a huge mistake - break that mold and do something the Reapers don't expect (like a Thanix cannon) and the Reapers die like any other war vessel.

Agreed. The reapers' entire strategy depends on three factors:

1) Complete surprise via sneak attack on the Citadel.

2) Controlling the Citadel core and thus the entire relay network.

3) The races they're "harvesting" are using railgun weaponry.

None of these things are going to be working for them in ME3.

[HTTP 404]

-Severian- wrote...

I have a theory, or perhaps an idea, to offer up. Based on one of Harbingers' quotes "We are your salvation through destruction", I've entertained the thought that the Reapers are simply an extremist form of protection from something else. Specifically, they were built by a long dead race who were losing a war with... something, to protect themselves in an immortal shell. Maybe something linked to the dark energy that keeps cropping up in ME2, such as Haestrom's Sun.

I could see something like this, in which we somehow trick the Reapers into a direct confrontation with their enemy and bring in the united races to mop up the sorely hammered remainder. This is all sheer guesswork and a possibility, but I do think that however we stop them will have something to do with dark energy - it crops up too often in ME2 to be simply ignored. Haestrom's Sun, Parasini references it, Wrex makes mention of it...

this enemy is probably time.  I think the reapers are trying to save humanity from its own device and perserve them forever.  Since all civilazations come to end no matter what.  Reapers believe they are forever.