93 ответов в этой теме

[JeffZero]

leonia42 wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

I'm not a huge fan of Thane. I don't hate him, I'm just lukewarm on him. He's a character I've seen many times. It's just this time he's also a terrible father.

Ah hah hah. I don't agree with you, but it still made me laugh quite a bit.

Y'know it's a fair point.. he really has a lot in common with Carth and other Bioware characters. There's not a whole lot that is "new" about him other than the spirituality stuff maybe. He's certainly attractive and though I haven't done the romance arc, sounds like he's pretty popular in that department. Like Samara though he's an optional squaddie so his connection to the plot in ME2 was fairly weak (as it was for a lot of the squad-mates really).

Yeah, true.

I do find that he has a slightly stronger connection than Samara, though, if only because his willingness to die in a good fight because he's going to die soon resonates more with a so-called suicide mission than a willingness to fight a good fight and keep fighting it for as long as possible.

But still, not much of an argument.

[Nashiktal]

Thane had the same problem I had with most of the me2 team...

Cutscene power to the max. Nothing kills a character for me when they do something super amazing that they can never do while being my teammate.

[Platform626]

I think it's because if you look into how he was first created, he was perfectly designed to appease to the female audience. So I would assume that most males and a few choice women would write his character off as a bland pretty boy.

[Leonia]

Platform626 wrote...

I think it's because if you look into how he was first created, he was perfectly designed to appease to the female audience. So I would assume that most males and a few choice women would write his character off as a bland pretty boy.

Which seems to have backfired quite spectacularly. Look how popular Garrus is as a LI and he wasn't designed as one from the start. I hope that has taught the devs a few lessons on how to cater towards the female gamers.

[Seboist]

The problem with Thane for me is that he shows up near the end of the game and because of it has a lack of presence and importance. It also doesn't help that for someone who's on the cover of the game he doesn't have nowhere near the plot relevance as Miranda does.

Currently I'm middleground/somewhat favorable to him and I'll have to use him more in my next playthrough to see if I get a better view of him.

[ThatDancingTurian]

JeffZero wrote...

Up with Garrus, you say? Jesus Mercy! That's incredible.

Well I don't know what the usual ranking is now, but back in the first couple of months it seemed the usual outcome was something like Garrus and Thane duking it out, Kaidan a ways down below them (Horizon was a fresh wound) and then Jacob... Poor Jacob.

Fidget6 wrote...

He also seems to be the least popular/most overlooked LI

Speaking of Jacob...

[Fidget6]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

He also seems to be the least popular/most overlooked LI

Speaking of Jacob...

Haha, well I meant at least people TALK about Jacob. And his "The Priiiiiiize" as well as his abs have made his romance somewhat notorious. Thane's doesn't really get mentioned much, people tend to just be kind of "meh" about it compared to the fanbases the rest of the romances have.

Сообщение изменено: Fidget6, 13 Июнь 2011 - 06:45 .

[Platform626]

Seboist wrote...

The problem with Thane for me is that he shows up near the end of the game and because of it has a lack of presence and importance. It also doesn't help that for someone who's on the cover of the game he doesn't have nowhere near the plot relevance as Miranda does.

I agree. Plus the whole "dying" thing doesn't really help towards his character. What's the point of creating a character who is apparently important enough to be on the cover just so you can bring him in briefly and then have him die? That also makes the romance between him and femshep pretty damn awkward to me.

[mellifera]

Personally? He ranks somewhere near the bottom for me, probably even below Jacob but above Liara. Now, had he been able to do all that hand-to-hand Monk-type combat stuff? Probably would have used him a lot more, though his character is still utterly boring to me. Unlike Liara whom I actively dislike, I just don't feel much of anything for Thane other than "meh", so he still gets ranked very low. At least disliking a character makes me feel something for them.

On a larger scale, I'd echo the sentiments that he probably ranks somewhere in the middle. I don't see that big a following for him, nor do I see anyone really hating him. He was made to be popular with the ladies and probably is fairly successful at that I guess, but nowhere near as much as Kaidan or even Garrus if I had to hazard a guess.

Сообщение изменено: yukidama, 13 Июнь 2011 - 06:48 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

One thing to note is that the Thane fanbase isn't nearly as vocal as others; they tend to hide in their little corners and keep their discussions and ideas to themselves. Of course, this doesn't apply to every fan of his, but it's how it generally is.

As for Thane as a character, quite frankly, he's the best thing to come out of ME2 as far as I'm concerned. I didn't particularly care for the story or the game's setting in general as it wasn't exactly what I'd hoped to see in the middle chapter of the trilogy, but Thane's presence alone made the game all the more shining in my eyes. He's an amazing character with an exceptionally well written romance subplot that goes beyond traditional friendship and love.

A big part of the problem is, as is the case with Legion, Thane is one of the very last squadmates you recruit. This may sound like a simple fact that has little to no influence, but believe it or not, it contributes largely to how many fans appreciate a character at the end of the road. For example, Legion is an undeniably epic character all around, but his fans aren't all that impressive in numbers because he's essentially shafted and as such tends to be overlooked. Thane is the same, more or less--only difference is Thane is romanceable.

In any case, Thane is my canon FemShep romance and I'm crossing my fingers for a satisfactory conclusion to his story with my FemShep in ME3.

Сообщение изменено: Fiery Phoenix, 13 Июнь 2011 - 06:58 .

[CheeseEnchilada]

I'd agree with the 'down the middle' statement--he's a decently popular character, but not near Garrus/Tali/Liara levels. On the internet, that is. All of my friends who don't visit forums seem to favor Thane and Mordin over the usual suspects. But we've seen that Miranda is a more popular LI choice outside of BSN, where Tali would reign supreme.

It's unfortunate though--I know a few people who never bothered to get to know him, due to the kepral's. They assume he'll just die before ME3, so they kill him off in the SM or don't even recruit him in the first place.

[Fidget6]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

One to note is that the Thane fanbase isn't nearly as vocal as others; they tend to hide in their little corners and keep their discussions and ideas to themselves. Of course, this doesn't apply to every fan of his, but it's how it generally is.

Haha, I think that's pretty accurate. I'm not very vocal about it (but really, just because I find squee'ing over any character a bit obnoxious) and most people I've seen with Thane avatars tend to keep more to themselves about their fangasms.

[Platform626]

I'll agree that while the whole time it seems like I've been bashing his character, Thane is a favorite character of mine.
As seen below (A hypocrite) vvv

[Fiery Phoenix]

CheeseEnchilada wrote...

I'd agree with the 'down the middle' statement--he's a decently popular character, but not near Garrus/Tali/Liara levels. On the internet, that is. All of my friends who don't visit forums seem to favor Thane and Mordin over the usual suspects. But we've seen that Miranda is a more popular LI choice outside of BSN, where Tali would reign supreme.

I'm sure not everyone is going to like what I'm about to say, but to speak my mind for a second:

Garrus and Tali's popularity is rooted in the fact that they were in ME1. You have people who like them for entirely nostalgic reasons, others who prefer them as a gesture of trust (which goes right back to the original premise), and some others who simply like them just because. Collectively, these people form a significant fanbase for both characters. This is a perfectly natural outcome if a character is with you in the first chapter and directly continues to be with you in subsequent chapters. You feel compelled and obligated to appreciate them, and that's precisely what's happening with Garrus and Tali.

Miranda, on the other hand, is liked almost entirely for her sex appeal. The very fact that the larger portion of her fanbase lies outside the confines of this forum proves this.

My point is the number of people who will appreciate a character from a writing point of view without allowing their emotions to intervene isn't comparable to the number of those who will like a character that has been with them from the beginning or merely based on appearance. Not trying to generalize or anything, but this is something I can hardly overlook. And of course, it isn't a bad thing. Just an interesting observation to consider after all these years.

Сообщение изменено: Fiery Phoenix, 13 Июнь 2011 - 07:09 .

[WizenSlinky0]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

CheeseEnchilada wrote...

I'd agree with the 'down the middle' statement--he's a decently popular character, but not near Garrus/Tali/Liara levels. On the internet, that is. All of my friends who don't visit forums seem to favor Thane and Mordin over the usual suspects. But we've seen that Miranda is a more popular LI choice outside of BSN, where Tali would reign supreme.

I'm sure not everyone is going to like what I'm about to say, but to speak my mind for a second:

Garrus and Tali's popularity is rooted in the fact that they were in ME1. You have people who like them for entirely nostalgic reasons, others who prefer them as a gesture of trust (which goes right back to the original premise), and some others who simply like them just because. Collectively, these people form a significant fanbase for both characters. This is a perfectly natural outcome if a character is with you in the first chapter and directly continues to be with you in subsequent chapters. You feel compelled and obligated to appreciate them, and that's precisely what's happening with Garrus and Tali.

Miranda, on the other hand, is liked almost entirely for her sex appeal. The very fact that the larger portion of her fanbase lines outside the confines of this forum proves this.

My point is the number of people who will appreciate a character from a writing point of view without allowing their emotions to intervene isn't comparable to the number of those who will like a character that has been with them from the beginning or merely based on appearance. Not trying to generalize or anything, but this is something I can hardly overlook. And of course, it isn't a bad thing. Just an interesting observation to consider after all these years.

I agree mostly. I do it with Garrus. He's familiar, I know he has my back, and he has a pretty decent selection of skills/powers.

But I didn't care much for Tali in ME1. She was just kinda there occasionally telling me about Geth and Fleets and how it's too quiet on the ship. Her redesign in ME2 along with going into depth, rather than just using exposition, about Quarian politics and customs and such, was a very nice addition and made me grow far fonder of her character.

She was a giant exposition machine in ME1. She was a character, good or bad, in ME2.

[ThatDancingTurian]

I don't really consider the 'writing point of view' to be Thane's selling point any more than any of the other characters, though. He seems as much a 'sex appeal' character as Miranda, just for the opposite gender.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

I don't really consider the 'writing point of view' to be Thane's selling point any more than any of the other characters, though. He seems as much a 'sex appeal' character as Miranda, just for the opposite gender.

True; I wasn't really talking about Thane, though. Just a general perspective on things.

That being said, Thane appeals to me entirely for writing reasons. After all, I'm a guy, so it's kind of hard to squee on his "sex appeal"....

[Platform626]

I would say the appeal for me would be a combination of the writing, sex appeal, and "Vietnam flashbacks".

Well that and introducing a new alien species to the Mass Effect world is always fun.
I still go nuts over the Shadow Broker reveal XD

[CheeseEnchilada]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

CheeseEnchilada wrote...

I'd agree with the 'down the middle' statement--he's a decently popular character, but not near Garrus/Tali/Liara levels. On the internet, that is. All of my friends who don't visit forums seem to favor Thane and Mordin over the usual suspects. But we've seen that Miranda is a more popular LI choice outside of BSN, where Tali would reign supreme.

I'm sure not everyone is going to like what I'm about to say, but to speak my mind for a second:

Garrus and Tali's popularity is rooted in the fact that they were in ME1. You have people who like them for entirely nostalgic reasons, others who prefer them as a gesture of trust (which goes right back to the original premise), and some others who simply like them just because. Collectively, these people form a significant fanbase for both characters. This is a perfectly natural outcome if a character is with you in the first chapter and directly continues to be with you in subsequent chapters. You feel compelled and obligated to appreciate them, and that's precisely what's happening with Garrus and Tali.

Miranda, on the other hand, is liked almost entirely for her sex appeal. The very fact that the larger portion of her fanbase lies outside the confines of this forum proves this.

My point is the number of people who will appreciate a character from a writing point of view without allowing their emotions to intervene isn't comparable to the number of those who will like a character that has been with them from the beginning or merely based on appearance. Not trying to generalize or anything, but this is something I can hardly overlook. And of course, it isn't a bad thing. Just an interesting observation to consider after all these years.

I happen to love what you said--and how you said it--because I think it's a very valid point that is often neglected.

With Garrus and Tali, I'm excited to see them in ME3 because they've been there since the beginning. They give support to Shepard, and it just feels right ending the trilogy with them at my back. With characters like Mordin and Legion, however, I was more interested in what they'd be doing than where they would be. I love Garrus and Legion just about equally, just in different ways.

And I'd guess that's another reason why Thane is middle of the road--he doesn't have a large galactic conflict in his backstory like Mordin or Legion. And he's not a nostalgic character who has been with you from the beginning. He's more personalized, which doesn't necessarily lend well to popularity. 

I'd add that he straddles the line of Blue and Orange morality at some points, as well. His whole view on being an assassin doesn't sit well with a lot of people I know, and they're convinced it's just him trying to weasel out of feeling guilty. Of course he's been brought up to think like that, but the discrepancies in his world views versus a human's isn't all that different in other aspects, unlike, say, Legion. He's an alien character who is very personalized and tries to relate to Shepard, so whenever that alien thinking does emerge, it's a bit jarring and can put people off.

[KotorEffect3]

Thane is a likeable character but not one of my favorites. There are other squadmates I find more compelling.

[Ieldra]

JeffZero wrote...
So if you were to gauge the fandom at-large, weaving your way through the shifting tides and million-and-one opinions, where would you say Thane's popularity rests?

Based on one of the bigger polls made not too long after ME2's release, he's ranked 7th in overall popularity among all ME1 and ME2 team members:

(1) Mordin
(2) Garrus
(3) Wrex
(4) Legion
(5) Tali
(6) Miranda
(7) Thane
(8) Grunt
(9) Samara
(10) Liara
(11) Jack
(12) Ashley
(13) Zaeed
(14) Jacob
(15) Kaidan
(16) Morinth

From the same poll, Thane ranks second after Kaidan in his appreciation as an LI by female players, with Garrus being third and the others with negligible percentages. I think this gives a good overall picture, though of course it doesn't reflect the BSN forums in their current state, which have a higher percentage of hardcore fans who have been here since ME1, so that ME1 characters rank considerably higher in the more current polls here. 

Edit:
Of course that poll still originated here, even though it wasnt a BSN poll. So there's bound to be considerable slant, but I wouldn't dare say in which direction. Only Bioware knows.

Сообщение изменено: Ieldra2, 13 Июнь 2011 - 08:01 .

[Ieldra]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...
Miranda, on the other hand, is liked almost entirely for her sex appeal. The very fact that the larger portion of her fanbase lies outside the confines of this forum proves this.

You're basically saying that people outside of BSN are incapable of appreciating a female character for more than her sex appeal. I don't think that's true...

Сообщение изменено: Ieldra2, 13 Июнь 2011 - 08:12 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Thane is an odd one it's true. His thread was way ahead of Garrus' at one point as I remember it, in fact it almost seemed at the time that the whole 'Garrus for LI!' movement during ME2's development only began in earnest after Thane's reveal. Thane-a-holics (I swear they had a name) were quite spectacular in their reverence of him even before the game, and yet afterwards it definitely dropped off.

I think most of the reasons have been discussed and I agree with them. I know of at least one big Thane group, and in general I think his fans take after him in keeping a lower profile than some others.

In some ways Thane is very comparable to Varric from DA2, albeit without the romance in Varric's case. I think Thane fans for the most part got what they were expecting and enjoyed it, whilst factors such as his placement later in the game, his illness, Garrus' rising popularity and the clashing of a stylish assassin exterior with a very feelings based romance (a good thing imo) all helped to keep his Thandom exploding with new members post launch.

He's a great character though, and well deserved his mentions alongside Legion and Mordin in various awards/lists/articles. Hoping he either gets cured or has a very fitting end in ME3!

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Miranda, on the other hand, is liked almost entirely for her sex appeal. The very fact that the larger portion of her fanbase lies outside the confines of this forum proves this.

I don't entirely disagree, but I imagine the numbers in terms of why people like her (sex appeal or other) are closer than some would imagine. One of the most common complaints I see about Miranda everywhere, not just here, is her outfit and the gratiutious camera angles etc. Followed by the ice queen/cerberus stuff. I think to some degree her rather obvious sex appeal works against her popularity at times, instantly putting some players off.

With that said I do still agree, because I would be willing to bet that the majority would still end up being horny people.

[Big stupid jellyfish]

I feel a need to contribute to this thread.

I think that players often misinterpret his views and beliefs, thus ranking Thane lower then they could. The fact is, Thane is alien. Not an alien like Wrex, Liara or Tali, but alien in his mindset as opposed to, say, Garrus, who looks like a turian but is very human inside.

Alien is relative, of course, so I should probably say 'alien to modern European culture'. Samara must suffer from that, too, though to a much lesser extent: it's fairly easy to find some corresponding codes of behavior and honor in our own past and literature. Moreover, her dedication resonates with the devotion of knights and paladins to their cause, which is generally perceived as a good and noble thing.

As for Thane, both modern culture and law are very strict and definite when it comes to killer's responsibility for his or her deeds, and being responsible for one's deeds was mostly always viewed as positive. Declining the responsibility -- not so much, and I can't think of any culture/tradition a player can associate Thane with to make it easier for 'self.

[_purifico_]

nitrog100 wrote...

my non-Garrus squadmate

That's a nice characterization. I'm totally using it.