33 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

ipgd wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

I have relatives who have had and who currently have suffered the same, but my comments aren't directed toward mental illness; it's toward the idea that Anders has no idea what's going on, which simply isn't true when Anders is commenting on what's going on to a pro-templar Hawke.

"Doesn't know what's going on" and "is not fully comprehending the consequences of his actions or decisions" are different things. He makes a knee-jerk decision to follow Hawke, because he does not trust himself and desperately wants to do something to make up for what he did, and once he has had the time to process what exactly that entails, hates himself for it and outright states his intentions to kill himself.

And this is where I disagree with you, because I do think Anders comprehends what's going on, which is why I find him siding with the templars OOC. We're clearly not going to come to a consensus on this issue.

[ipgd]

LobselVith8 wrote...

And this is where I disagree with you, because I do think Anders comprehends what's going on, which is why I find him siding with the templars OOC. We're clearly not going to come to a consensus on this issue.

Reaching a consensus is rather difficult when your answer to all of the arguments presented is just "No." It makes discussion in general rather difficult, actually.

[LobselVith8]

ipgd wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

And this is where I disagree with you, because I do think Anders comprehends what's going on, which is why I find him siding with the templars OOC. We're clearly not going to come to a consensus on this issue.

Reaching a consensus is rather difficult when your answer to all of the arguments presented is just "No." It makes discussion in general rather difficult, actually.

The fact that I don't agree with you is different than simply saying "no," but neither one of us is saying anything new here.

[ipgd]

LobselVith8 wrote...

The fact that I don't agree with you is different than simply saying "no," but neither one of us is saying anything new here.

Obviously this isn't the first time we've had this argument, but this is also not the last time this topic is going to come up, so I'm not sure why you continue to argue the point if you are no longer willing to elaborate your arguments in all the new and exciting threads this will undoubtedly appear in. I care about the issue enough to belabor the subject in circles for the benefit of interested third parties, which is why I continue to post and damage my skull against brick walls.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

LobselVith8 wrote...

And this is where I disagree with you, because I do think Anders comprehends what's going on, which is why I find him siding with the templars OOC.

Anders is conscious of what's going on, but he also doubts himself on a fundamental level. He doubts himself in a way that only someone who has feared demonic possession his entire life and now believes he is possessed by a demon could doubt himself.

Anders currently believes that any thought or feeling he is having could be coming from an honest-to-god demon. He is conscious, but cannot trust his own thoughts. The only thing he does trust at this one moment is Hawke. "Everything I think is due to demonic influence. Hawke is the only person I can trust, if I cannot trust myself." When he's on the box of shame, he thinks that maybe there's some Anders left that isn't tainted by the demon inside of him.

By the time he gets to the gallows, he's convinced that isn't the case. The decision to fight for the Templars is the "right" decision according to that particular Hawke, and even the part of Anders that is currently suppressing Justice disagrees with this idea. He literally tells this to Hawke "it is destroying me to even contemplate turning against my people." (not the exact quote but close).  But this version of Anders has taken what Hawke suggests to the logical extreme: if Anders still does not agree with siding with the Templars, it is because he has been completely corrupted by the demon inside of him. He is nothing but a monster now, and his desire to save the mages is just evidence that he is a monster.

So no, Anders has explicitly not decided that helping the Templars is a good idea, and everything about him is screaming at him not to do it, both Justice and Anders himself. The thing is, Hawke has convinced Anders that this is all because of a demon, and the only way Anders can reject his now demonic nature is in this one last act. Anders is convinced that he is fundamentally a wrong and evil thing, and thus going against his instincts is the only right thing to do.

It is AWFUL. It is literally the worst and most horrifying thing I can imagine. I didn't realize how utterly wretched it was until I typed all of this out. Now my heart hurts.

But it isn't ooc.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 15 juin 2011 - 04:13 .

[ipgd]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

[snip]

Yes.

It's a very big parallel to the saarebas. His dialogue with Ketojan in particular almost reeks of foreshadowing.


I'll just leave it at this: as I've argued for months now, I don't have a problem with the templar ending as long as Anders is dead at the end of it. And given there's very clearly a window for that interpretation, I am 100% okay with it.

Modifié par ipgd, 15 juin 2011 - 03:39 .

[happy_daiz]

Poor Anders. I just couldn't bring myself to forcing him to side with the templars. Ever.

[Wulfram]

Anders & the Templars sounds like a good pop group

[dantares83]

Wulfram wrote...

Anders & the Templars sounds like a good pop group

lol... i can totally image Anders as a rock star with his ear ring...

n the Templars as band behing him will be super funny