9 réponses à ce sujet

[Arcite550]

So there is alot of buzz and such about TIM being in fact indoctrinated. This lead me to wonder about our friend Paul...

was it

1. The Reapers seeing how their tech fully intgrated affected humans.

or

2. TIM really was finding a way to stop the affects of indoctrination.

Thoughts? Opinions?

Been a while since I read the book so I may be off on a few deatails.

[ElitePinecone]

It's difficult to tell, what we saw as TIM acting under his own will might have been subtle suggesting by the Reapers, if he was in fact indoctrinated.

I'd find it a tad implausible that the Reapers had been controlling TIM (and therefore Cerberus) for decades and only now decided to use their not-insignificant assets to effect change in the galaxy. Any of a dozen Cerberus officials in the Alliance could have got to Shepard during or after the events of ME/ME2.

More to the point, why would they let TIM (if he really were indoctrinated) resurrect Shepard and provide her/him with everything they needed to disrupt the Collectors' plans?

[dildeinstein]

I don't think TIM was indoctrinated at the beginning of Retribution. He may have exposed himself to something during the course of the book with the Reaper nanides or it may have happened since the end of the book before ME3.

I think Cerberus wanted information on the Reapers and they didn't know what it would be used for so the experiments on Paul are more of a fact finding - like a child pulling the wings off a fly - than research that has a purpose.

[zeoduos]

One thing that came to mind when OP suggested that TIM was researching ways to resist indoctrination:

Maybe TIM is not really indoctrinated (thanks to his successful anti-reaper tech) and instead, the whole galaxy is indoctrinated. So what he's really trying to achieve is to free the galaxy from the Reaper's power.

This is very far-fetched, but we all know TIM knows a lot that we don't. Somehow this makes sense to me. Sorry for going off on a huge tangent.

[Arcite550]

ElitePinecone wrote...

It's difficult to tell, what we saw as TIM acting under his own will might have been subtle suggesting by the Reapers, if he was in fact indoctrinated.

I'd find it a tad implausible that the Reapers had been controlling TIM (and therefore Cerberus) for decades and only now decided to use their not-insignificant assets to effect change in the galaxy. Any of a dozen Cerberus officials in the Alliance could have got to Shepard during or after the events of ME/ME2.

More to the point, why would they let TIM (if he really were indoctrinated) resurrect Shepard and provide her/him with everything they needed to disrupt the Collectors' plans?

You drive some good points but wasnt Retribution taking place during the time Shepard was dead?

Who is to say he didn't expose himself to the indoctrination and it would slowly build up to the level Saren was at. It is fact that more the Reapers control a subject the less capable they become. Perhaps they knew TIM's plan and wanted to to test our abilities and tech further than what they know. I mean it would make sense for the sudden turncoat Cerberus pulled for ME3.

[azerSheppard]

I don't think TIM is indoctrinated at all, all he did was contact a reaper and find out their goal, which was to uplift humans into their ranks, TIM would approve of this, it's a better option then being annahilated.

[Eshaye]

Retribution takes place after ME2.

TIM has been exposed to the Reaper's will for 30 years, that's when he got those eyes. He can sense exactly where Reaper artifacts are located. That's probably been the source of his super intel this whole time. I do believe that he was trying desperately at first to find a way to fight the Reapers and fight indoctrination. In that sense I don't think he's exactly like Saren who adopted a let's join them we can't beat them attitude.

But it was shown with Paul that the Reapers can make you believe you are doing the right thing by figuring out what you want the most and using that against you. It's can be very subtle. I do not believe Cerberus suddenly turned sides, they were always what they are; an organization led by an idealistic and determined man that is unfortunately possessed by something very powerful.

I think it shows just how strong TIM really is to have held on for so long and it makes his character the more tragic. That is IF he is indoctrinated completely, I don't imagine the plot to really be that simple when it comes to TIM specifically.

To the question why would the Reaper's let TIM resurect Shepard, to me the answer is simple; Shepard's genetic code is superior to anything they've seen. Dead or alive it doesn't matter to them as long as they can get him/her for their human smoothie. They will use whatever means necessary to get to their ends, if it means letting TIM take Shepard under his wing for a time then fine. Their patience is endless. 

Maybe there's more to it but so far that's what I figure. But that was the plot to ME2, in ME3 they might have figured Shep is just too much damn trouble... 

Modifié par Eshaye, 13 juin 2011 - 09:39 .

[Arcite550]

Eshaye wrote...

Retribution takes place after ME2.

TIM has been exposed to the Reaper's will for 30 years, that's when he got those eyes. He can sense exactly where Reaper artifacts are located. That's probably been the source of his super intel this whole time. I do believe that he was trying desperately at first to find a way to fight the Reapers and fight indoctrination. In that sense I don't think he's exactly like Saren who adopted a let's join them we can't beat them attitude.

But it was shown with Paul that the Reapers can make you believe you are doing the right thing by figuring out what you want the most and using that against you. It's can be very subtle. I do not believe Cerberus suddenly turned sides, they were always what they are; an organization led by an idealistic and determined man that is unfortunately possessed by something very powerful.

I think it shows just how strong TIM really is to have held on for so long and it makes his character the more tragic. That is IF he is indoctrinated completely, I don't imagine the plot to really be that simple when it comes to TIM specifically.

To the question why would the Reaper's let TIM resurect Shepard, to me the answer is simple; Shepard's genetic code is superior to anything they've seen. Dead or alive it doesn't matter to them as long as they can get him/her for their human smoothie. They will use whatever means necessary to get to their ends, if it means letting TIM take Shepard under his wing for a time then fine. Their patience is endless. 

Maybe there's more to it but so far that's what I figure. But that was the plot to ME2, in ME3 they might have figured Shep is just too much damn trouble... 

I take you read the comics about TIM? I havent so I didn't know where he got those eyes I just had my suspicion they were Reaper in Origin since Saren's eyes were similar.

[SalsaDMA]

Grayson didn't succomb untill he was addled with Red Sand.

I don't think TIM have been playing with red sand, tbh.

[Arcite550]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Grayson didn't succomb untill he was addled with Red Sand.

I don't think TIM have been playing with red sand, tbh.

Then what is Sarens excuse? Im pretty sure he wasn't playing with Red Sand