351 réponses à ce sujet

[Rinji the Bearded]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

MACharlie1 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Neria Rose wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Neria Rose wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

It's not some conspiracy to keep gay/bi characters out of our BioWare games. I (from a story perspective) simply want characters to be well defined and secure in thier sexuality, reguardless of the whims of Shep. It realy hurt imersion for me in DA2 knowing that guys and gals who acted straight could easly be turned gay/bi by afew flirty words from my Hawke. That is not good story telling, it'e a lazy atempt to make a small portion of the gameing population happy by allowing them to screw anyone they wanted.

If there is to be true advadvancement on the subject to gay sexuality in video games I think Boiware are the ones to acomplish it. But they can't do it if they take the DA2 road, because everyone being Bi is just plain ridiculous. Give us well defind characters with their own motivations and desires. That is good story telling, while the "everyone is bi hook up with who you want" is simply a cheap shortcut.

I didn't realize that gay/bi people only acted one way while straight people only behaved in some other way.

Really? so straight men and straight women act exactly the same? Please this argument is used and on the surface it looks like it holds truth, when in fact it's completly lacking in the truth department. The truth is our desires are core to our personality. Yes that includes what type of person we are attracted to....

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. So.. your previous statement about people 'acting straight'.. you mean, straight men and straight women act differently from each other while gay people all act the same? Or that no gay people 'act' like straight people? How do straight people behave as opposed to gay people, anyway?

Well for starters they flirt with the same sex, something straight people do not do...

Are you really to dense to comprehend the point I'm making?

What are you using to backup this argument since I'm pretty familiar with quite a number of people who will flirt with you regardless including myself. And that's not a personality trait - how they go about flirting and how much of it they do is personality. Flirting is too general since I would say everyone does a fair amount of playful flirting with one another. 

I am speaking form a story telling perspective on this, and I'm not wrong.

Why eles would you be trying to divert the issue by way of a straw man argument?

A story telling perspective? What the hell does that even mean in this context? 

Character development suffers when a charcater is left undefined.

A thread suffers when you don't trim your quotes.

[MACharlie1]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Character development suffers when a charcater is left undefined.

Maybe I'm a little dense too but Shepard is undefined and the player defines them themselves...

[Leonia]

MACharlie1 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Character development suffers when a charcater is left undefined.

Maybe I'm a little dense too but Shepard is undefined and the player defines them themselves...

Aww that's what I was going to post. And thanks for breaking out of the quote-pyramid-hell.

[DieHigh2012]

Neria Rose wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

It already has been, so little ol' you need to go back and read what I have already posted.

I love most who argue with me about this use Straw man tactics.

No it hasn't. Seriously, please type out right here how gay people behave as opposed to straight people. I'm awfully curious. You said 'for starters', that implies you have some other examples of behavior besides flirting.

Keep it up, but I'm not taking the bait guy.

Our desires define what we want and character motivation is integral in character progession. So from a story telling perspective it is best to have a well defind character, where  your audience can then see them as a complete entity, not as some pixals that change core beliefs on the whim of the PC.

[Stardusk78]

ElitePinecone wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...

Many gay men in real life have an effeminate, nasal voice. That does not fit Shepard.

Respectfully, this is a stereotype. A very unfortunate one. 

Shepard - both male and female - will have same-sex romance opportunities in ME3. Whether that fits the character is a matter of opinion. The option will be there for those who wish to pursue it.

I can't emphasise this enough.

Optional options are optional. 

If you don't choose the S/S romances, your Shepard won't be gay. 

Sure it's a stereotype but it is confirmed in real life often enough. I have a bunch of gay friends who CAN'T stant gay men like that, and they themselves cite them as being ubiquitous and giving them a bad rep. Moreover, you can see this behaviour across the board in multiple cultures, languages and countries. The question is, whether it is purely socially motivated or if it is something else entirely and no I am not a troll, even though I think more lesbians would be good.

[Leonia]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Our desires define what we want and character motivation is integral in character progession. So from a story telling perspective it is best to have a well defind character, where  your audience can then see them as a complete entity, not as some pixals that change core beliefs on the whim of the PC.

You must be new to this concept called ROLE-playing. Shepard to an extent is a pre-defined character but there is no canon form of him or her. Her/His decisions are completely up to the player, his/her personality is determined by the player, his/her appearance is determined by the player, and his/her sexuality is determined by the player. Even how renegade or paragon he or she is is determined by.. yes the player. This isn't a novel. This is a role-playing game focused on the PC's vision of who Shepard is within certain set parametres (of which sexuality is not one of).

[Neria Rose]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Keep it up, but I'm not taking the bait guy.

Our desires define what we want and character motivation is integral in character progession. So from a story telling perspective it is best to have a well defind character, where  your audience can then see them as a complete entity, not as some pixals that change core beliefs on the whim of the PC.

What bait? I'm asking for clarification.

Please allow me to quote from your posts (misspelled words unchanged):

It realy hurt imersion for me in DA2
knowing that guys and gals who acted straight could easly be turned
gay/bi by afew flirty words from my Hawke.

Well for starters they flirt with the same sex, something straight people do not do...

-End quote-

You've stated that people can 'act straight'. And you've given an example of how people can 'act gay'. But.. surely you're not basing your entire argument on who flirts with whom.

Modifié par Neria Rose, 13 juin 2011 - 01:43 .

[Fidget6]

DieHigh2012 wrote...
Our desires define what we want and character motivation is integral in character progession. So from a story telling perspective it is best to have a well defind character, where  your audience can then see them as a complete entity, not as some pixals that change core beliefs on the whim of the PC.

But isn't that the entire point of Shepard? That WE choose Shep's core beliefs and principles? 

[Rinji the Bearded]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Keep it up, but I'm not taking the bait guy.

Our desires define what we want and character motivation is integral in character progession. So from a story telling perspective it is best to have a well defind character, where  your audience can then see them as a complete entity, not as some pixals that change core beliefs on the whim of the PC.

Isn't that the point, though?  For example, if I RP Shepard as a paragon, but then make some renegade choices, the game doesn't shut down because Shepard's personality did a sudden 180, and vice versa.  It's not as if Shepard is a set and well-established character to begin with; you start out with a Shepard who has a clean slate and is neutral -- it's up to the player to set up his/her moral standards and beliefs.   By your logic, we should just pick the neutral choices all day, everyday.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 13 juin 2011 - 01:45 .

[DieHigh2012]

MACharlie1 wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Character development suffers when a charcater is left undefined.

Maybe I'm a little dense too but Shepard is undefined and the player defines them themselves...

Yet I am not talking about a PC character. I'm talking about the NPC's and their disconect form a core part of what makes them who they are.

This is not some "IHATERS GAYZZZZ" idea, I wish ya'll would stop treating me like some homophobe jerk. It's only me trying to have the best story possible, one of theways you accomplish that is well defined character interaction. With characters that have there own distenct personalitys, be they Gay/Bi/Straight or asexual...

[Fidget6]

Stardusk78 wrote...
Sure it's a stereotype but it is confirmed in real life often enough. I have a bunch of gay friends who CAN'T stant gay men like that, and they themselves cite them as being ubiquitous and giving them a bad rep.

I don't think effeminate gay men choose to be that way. I understand how they might be frustrated but I think that the LGBT community are often their own worst enemy. We've always been so judgemental of our own little subgroups, how the hell are we supposed to expect others to accept us if we don't even accept ourselves? But I digress.....

Modifié par Fidget6, 13 juin 2011 - 01:47 .

[DieHigh2012]

RinjiRenee wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Keep it up, but I'm not taking the bait guy.

Our desires define what we want and character motivation is integral in character progession. So from a story telling perspective it is best to have a well defind character, where  your audience can then see them as a complete entity, not as some pixals that change core beliefs on the whim of the PC.

Isn't that the point, though?  For example, if I RP Shepard as a paragon, but then make some renegade choices, the game doesn't shut down because Shepard's personality did a sudden 180, and vice versa.  It's not as if Shepard is a set and well-established character to begin with; you start out with a Shepard who has a clean slate and is neutral -- it's up to the player to set up his/her moral standards and beliefs.   By your logic, we should just pick the neutral choices all day, everyday.

This discusion is not about Shep, I have no idea where ya'll got that from...

Shep is defind by you, the player. NPC's are the one's that the writers must breath personality into.

[Collider]

Come on, I can't be the only one who sees the obvious troll in this thread.

[Fidget6]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Keep it up, but I'm not taking the bait guy.

Our desires define what we want and character motivation is integral in character progession. So from a story telling perspective it is best to have a well defind character, where  your audience can then see them as a complete entity, not as some pixals that change core beliefs on the whim of the PC.

Isn't that the point, though?  For example, if I RP Shepard as a paragon, but then make some renegade choices, the game doesn't shut down because Shepard's personality did a sudden 180, and vice versa.  It's not as if Shepard is a set and well-established character to begin with; you start out with a Shepard who has a clean slate and is neutral -- it's up to the player to set up his/her moral standards and beliefs.   By your logic, we should just pick the neutral choices all day, everyday.

This discusion is not about Shep, I have no idea where ya'll got that from...

Shep is defind by you, the player. NPC's are the one's that the writers must breath personality into.

Ah. Carry on then. 

[Stardusk78]

Fidget6 wrote...

Stardusk78 wrote...
Sure it's a stereotype but it is confirmed in real life often enough. I have a bunch of gay friends who CAN'T stant gay men like that, and they themselves cite them as being ubiquitous and giving them a bad rep.

I don't think effeminate gay men choose to be that way. I understand how they might be frustrated but I think that the LGBT community are often their own worst enemy. We've always been so judgemental of our own little subgroups, how the hell are we supposed to expect others to accept us if we don't even accept ourselves? But I digress.....

There could be genetic reasons obviously. Much as women have differing levels of hormones and even brain structure there is some evidence to suggest that gay men do too. Of course the 'muscle bear' stereotype is another one. What I rarely see is gay guys who are not readily identifiable upon looking at them and listening to them. My friends are a few of those exceptions but they are rare.

[Clonedzero]

Collider wrote...

Come on, I can't be the only one who sees the obvious troll in this thread.

wait, which one? lol

[DieHigh2012]

Neria Rose wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Keep it up, but I'm not taking the bait guy.

Our desires define what we want and character motivation is integral in character progession. So from a story telling perspective it is best to have a well defind character, where  your audience can then see them as a complete entity, not as some pixals that change core beliefs on the whim of the PC.

What bait? I'm asking for clarification.

Please allow me to quote from your posts (misspelled words unchanged):

It realy hurt imersion for me in DA2
knowing that guys and gals who acted straight could easly be turned
gay/bi by afew flirty words from my Hawke.

Well for starters they flirt with the same sex, something straight people do not do...

-End quote-

You've stated that people can 'act straight'. And you've given an example of how people can 'act gay'. But.. surely you're not basing your entire argument on who flirts with whom.

Straw man is Straw man

[Rinji the Bearded]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

This discusion is not about Shep, I have no idea where ya'll got that from...

Shep is defind by you, the player. NPC's are the one's that the writers must breath personality into.

Why are we worrying about the NPCs?  The writers know them better than anyone.

[Leonia]

Collider wrote...

Come on, I can't be the only one who sees the obvious troll in this thread.

Hint: There's more than one.

[PlumPaul93]

DieHigh2012 wrote...This discusion is not about Shep, I have no idea where ya'll got that from...

Shep is defind by you, the player. NPC's are the one's that the writers must breath personality into.

DieHigh I'd avoid topics like these as best as I could if I were you. These discussions usually lead to confusion or fights where people question something you say without giving a compromise that helps both sides. Usually why these threads get locked.

[Collider]

leonia42 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Come on, I can't be the only one who sees the obvious troll in this thread.

Hint: There's more than one.

Yes, I don't respond to them

[ElitePinecone]

Clonedzero wrote...

Collider wrote...

Come on, I can't be the only one who sees the obvious troll in this thread.

wait, which one? lol

I'm so confused. 

It's like a hall of mirrors, except the mirrors are trolls. 

[Leonia]

Collider wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Collider wrote...

Come on, I can't be the only one who sees the obvious troll in this thread.

Hint: There's more than one.

Yes, I don't respond to them

I only slipped up once, I can quit whenever I like, you hear me! And I think we already know this thread has hit "getting locked" territory so enjoy the ride while ya can.

[NTsikuris]

So, I recently read somewhere, can't remember where, that there would FINALLY be same-sex romance in ME3. I think Casey Hudson mentioned this, if not please correct me.

If this is true, would this mean that Kaidan and Ashley could be romanced by the same sex? I mean, you've been with them (which ever survived Virmire) since the beginning. It would make some sense for there be some kind of attraction between them and Shepard.