25 réponses à ce sujet

[FERMi27]

I was wondering, why the Protheans were the only race to ever achieve the ability of creating Mass Relays.
It seems like the Reapers, for some reasons, attacked them when they were in a very late stage of evolution. Compare it to the current races. They are far away from the possibility of even understandind how a relay works, not to mention creating one, even as small as Conduit. Yet Reapers still decided it's "dinner time" for their huskies. Any clues why would that happen?

[StefanBW]

Protheans didn't create the mass relays, the Reapers did.

Edit: this may be about the mini-relay, in that case forget what I said.

Modifié par stefanbw, 13 juin 2011 - 11:09 .

[FERMi27]

Yep, like that avatar of yhours would say.
And, btw, I mentioned the term Conduit.

[bleetman]

They're machines. It's not beyond assumption that they just invade after a precise time period, every time. Beyond that, who knows. Military strength? Population growth? Maybe they acquired a copy of Fornax and were so disgusted by the mortal depravity on display they felt obligated to make with the purging ahead of schedule.

I'm more curious as to why they don't just wait for Shepard to die of old age, myself.

Oh, as a side thought, I was under the impression the Conduit (and the Ilos facility where mass relay travel was being researched) were top secret. If a similar project was underway around the time Mass Effect is set, would we know about it?

Modifié par bleetman, 13 juin 2011 - 11:19 .

[SennenScale]

Who says they were monitoring the galaxy closely rather than just waiting for a set time period?

Sovereign was intimidating, sure, but he didn't really strike me as a tactical genius.

[Dannyboy9876]

SennenScale wrote...

Sovereign was intimidating, sure, but he didn't really strike me as a tactical genius.

But he WAS a tactical genious.

Look at what he did.

Indoctrinate one of the most famed Spectres...Check
Indoctrinate super powerful Asari Matriarch for influence and off-ship duty...Check
Indoctrinate super-portable AI as Ground-Forces...Check


There is much more as well.

[Tleining]

uh, how do we know no one else is able to build mass-relays? Matriarch Aethyta (Liaras Mom/Dad) was laughed off of Ilium because she wanted them to build new Mass-Relays. So the knowledge seems to be there, but so far there has been no need for it.
Even the Protheans only build the Conduit when the Reapers were already there.

[Robhuzz]

Dannyboy9876 wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

Sovereign was intimidating, sure, but he didn't really strike me as a tactical genius.

But he WAS a tactical genious.

Look at what he did.

Indoctrinate one of the most famed Spectres...Check
Indoctrinate super powerful Asari Matriarch for influence and off-ship duty...Check
Indoctrinate super-portable AI as Ground-Forces...Check


There is much more as well.

This is true but think about the plot of ME1 from a realistic point of view (Not in game). Why go through all the trouble of getting saren kicked from the spectres then look for the conduit while Saren was on the citadel before? Indoctrinate Saren while Sovereign and the geth are waiting beyond a relay. Saren, as the top spectre has acces to the citadel tower. Take over control, close the ward arms, in comes sovereign, reaper invasion begins again.

The whole conduit wasn't really needed after all. Thus I ask: Was Sovereign really that much of a genius?

[Juha81FIN]

Protheans were the only race to ever study mass relays in a way that they could create one of their own, no other race seems to share same curiosity. Reapers wiped them out simply because time was right.

[Medhia Nox]

And doesn't it all depend on the Citadel?

What if the Protheans had already become insanely advanced prior to finding the Citadel?

Perhaps the Citadel really wasn't even such a huge leap in technology for them.

=====

And I believe that the cycle is broken currently - everything the Reapers set up to make their harvesting seamless has been stripped from them (by the Protheans technically... but they were too little too late to actually use it... fast forward to Shepard)

Now - all that is needed is the monumental task of destroying the Reaper fleet... which is at a serious disadvantage because their usual way of conquest has been completely stopped. The Citadel is in the hands of their enemies - as are the mass relays.

====

Anyway - I think the Protheans were just hyper advanced before finding the Citadel, which is how the Reapers know when to begin their invasion.

[CroGamer002]

Arcian wrote...

Robhuzz wrote...

Dannyboy9876 wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

Sovereign was intimidating, sure, but he didn't really strike me as a tactical genius.

But he WAS a tactical genious.

Look at what he did.

Indoctrinate one of the most famed Spectres...Check
Indoctrinate super powerful Asari Matriarch for influence and off-ship duty...Check
Indoctrinate super-portable AI as Ground-Forces...Check


There is much more as well.

This is true but think about the plot of ME1 from a realistic point of view (Not in game). Why go through all the trouble of getting saren kicked from the spectres then look for the conduit while Saren was on the citadel before? Indoctrinate Saren while Sovereign and the geth are waiting beyond a relay. Saren, as the top spectre has acces to the citadel tower. Take over control, close the ward arms, in comes sovereign, reaper invasion begins again.

The whole conduit wasn't really needed after all. Thus I ask: Was Sovereign really that much of a genius?

OH LOOK ITS THIS F***ING SH*T AGAIN.

The Citadel Tower has dozens of guards and snipers at 24/7 to protect the Council. Not even Saren can waltz up to the citadel control and start messing with the arms and relay network without getting shot to death before you could say Omnigel.

The whole point of the conduit was to let the geth take over the station in a surprise attack, take out the guards and snipers in the Citadel Tower and basically let Saren do his thing without the whole "getting-shot-to-death-by-for-betraying-his-employers"-thing getting in his way.

How can you NOT have understood this when playing the game?

Plus Sovy needs to get that data from Vigil on Ilos to make Keepers activate Citadel Mass Relay and send in other Reapers.

Modifié par Mesina2, 13 juin 2011 - 02:09 .

[SennenScale]

Dannyboy9876 wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

Sovereign was intimidating, sure, but he didn't really strike me as a tactical genius.

But he WAS a tactical genious.

Look at what he did.

Indoctrinate one of the most famed Spectres...Check
Indoctrinate super powerful Asari Matriarch for influence and off-ship duty...Check
Indoctrinate super-portable AI as Ground-Forces...Check

There is much more as well.

First of all, that's hardly an impressive feat considering that a dead reaper can still indoctrinate.

Secondly, he didn't seek out an asari matriarch. Benezia joined Saren to try and stop him and she failed.

And if we are to believe Legion, those geth were not indoctrinated.

[arne1234]

The protheans where a single race perhaps their militairy force was small enough to make them less of a treath. The current species are all less advanced but perhaps they pose a larger military thread by shear amound of war ships and battle experience.

[samurai crusade]

What we know so far is that the Reapers place objects on planets as traps (Mass Effect Evolution. Various N7 missions). Once these traps are triggered, the subjects are turned into Husks or first Indoctrinated. The Indoctrination process allows the Reapers to learn much about the Species.

It's quite possible the Protheans were lucky enough to not trigger one of these "traps" for awhile. Also of note, the Protheans were found to be incompatable for the creation of a new Reaper... perhaps the Reapers hoped the Protheans would lift up another civilization that could be used. They are nothing if not patient.

[Dannyboy9876]

SennenScale wrote...

Dannyboy9876 wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

Sovereign was intimidating, sure, but he didn't really strike me as a tactical genius.

But he WAS a tactical genious.

Look at what he did.

Indoctrinate one of the most famed Spectres...Check
Indoctrinate super powerful Asari Matriarch for influence and off-ship duty...Check
Indoctrinate super-portable AI as Ground-Forces...Check

There is much more as well.

First of all, that's hardly an impressive feat considering that a dead reaper can still indoctrinate.

Secondly, he didn't seek out an asari matriarch. Benezia joined Saren to try and stop him and she failed.

And if we are to believe Legion, those geth were not indoctrinated.

Technical indoctrination=/=Organic indoctrination

They were indoctrinated. It's as simple as introducing a virus.

Virus=Tech indoctrination

Touché on the Benzia thing, though. I forgot about that.

Modifié par Dannyboy9876, 13 juin 2011 - 02:50 .

[Tleining]

Dannyboy9876 wrote...

Technical indoctrination=/=Organic indoctrination

They were indoctrinated. It's as simple as introducing a virus.

Virus=Tech indoctrination

Touché on the Benzia thing, though. I forgot about that.

they were not indoctrinated. The Heretics tried to "indoctrinate" the Geth by introducing a Virus. Sovereign simply approached the Geth as an advanced AI, and offered to help them out. The Heretics saw him/it as a God and decided to follow the Reapers.
If Sovereign would have used a Virus, there wouldn't be any Geth left to help you out (ie no legion)

[Casuist]

Advancement level is not continuous across all possible technological paths. The Protheans were more advanced in mass relay research, but were quite possibly less advanced in other areas.

[AllenShepard]

Vigil said their were no records of the Illos facility. It was completely off the books, so the Reapers had no idea.

[Itkovian]

Medhia Nox wrote...

And doesn't it all depend on the Citadel?

What if the Protheans had already become insanely advanced prior to finding the Citadel?

Perhaps the Citadel really wasn't even such a huge leap in technology for them.

=====

And I believe that the cycle is broken currently - everything the Reapers set up to make their harvesting seamless has been stripped from them (by the Protheans technically... but they were too little too late to actually use it... fast forward to Shepard)

Now - all that is needed is the monumental task of destroying the Reaper fleet... which is at a serious disadvantage because their usual way of conquest has been completely stopped. The Citadel is in the hands of their enemies - as are the mass relays.

====

Anyway - I think the Protheans were just hyper advanced before finding the Citadel, which is how the Reapers know when to begin their invasion.

 This is essentially what happened. The Reapers now have to do the whole Galactic Purge the old fashioned way. They cannot simply take over the Citadel and override the relays.

So, yes, now all that's left is to annihilate an armada of sentient dreadnaughts. No biggie.

Itkovian

[Pride Demon]

FERMi27 wrote...

I was wondering, why the Protheans were the only race to ever achieve the ability of creating Mass Relays.
It seems like the Reapers, for some reasons, attacked them when they were in a very late stage of evolution. Compare it to the current races. They are far away from the possibility of even understandind how a relay works, not to mention creating one, even as small as Conduit. Yet Reapers still decided it's "dinner time" for their huskies. Any clues why would that happen?

Pure chance I'd say... The reapings happen every 50000 years, but they only target spacefaring races that use Mass Effect technology (that is Reaper technology), some races were probable primitive by the time the previous reaping happened (we, for instance, were Neanderthals and ****** Sapiens at the time the Protheans were reaped, so in 50000 we first had to reach spacefaring status and then we started studying reaper tech), but its fully possible some races already were advanced, they just lacked spaceflight and control of Mass Effect tech...

Take the Yahg for instance, currently they have access to technology roughly on par with 20th century Earth, if this Reaping succeds that means they survive unscathed and have 50000 years to develop from that, so it stand to reason they'll have more time to research relays and understand their inner workings...

The Protheans probably were the same: already pretty advanced by the time their predecessors were eradicated, so they had a bit of a head start, so to speak...

In the end it all depends on chance: for example, if by mere chance we had not found the ruins on Mars till after 2183, we would probably have avoided this reaping all together and would have had another 50000 to study reaper tech...

[Dave666]

Robhuzz wrote...

Dannyboy9876 wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

Sovereign was intimidating, sure, but he didn't really strike me as a tactical genius.

But he WAS a tactical genious.

Look at what he did.

Indoctrinate one of the most famed Spectres...Check
Indoctrinate super powerful Asari Matriarch for influence and off-ship duty...Check
Indoctrinate super-portable AI as Ground-Forces...Check


There is much more as well.

This is true but think about the plot of ME1 from a realistic point of view (Not in game). Why go through all the trouble of getting saren kicked from the spectres then look for the conduit while Saren was on the citadel before? Indoctrinate Saren while Sovereign and the geth are waiting beyond a relay. Saren, as the top spectre has acces to the citadel tower. Take over control, close the ward arms, in comes sovereign, reaper invasion begins again.

The whole conduit wasn't really needed after all. Thus I ask: Was Sovereign really that much of a genius?

The point of searching for the Conduit was that Sovereign didn't know what it was.  Sovereign had no idea it was simply a back door onto the Citadel.  All that Sovereign knew was that when it sent the usual signal to the Citadel, the Keepers ignored it.  This is not something that they had ever done before, so naturally Sovereign put two and two together and realized that it must have been something that the Protheans did.

Sovereign then uses Saren to use a Prothean Beacon to try to figure out what they did, just in case there were any other nasty surprises lying in wait.  Saren then discovered something about a Conduit, but few details.  Sovereign now had a name 'Conduit', but no clue where it was and its possible that Sovereign didn't even know for sure what it was.  Sovereign then decided, quite reasonably to find out more about this 'Conduit'.

Remember that the Citadel can close the 'Arms' effectively sealing the Citadel and heavily fortifying it.  Had Sovereign simply shown up on their doorstep its entirely possible that they would have simpy closed the arms and then what does Sovereign do?

[Dean_the_Young]

FERMi27 wrote...

I was wondering, why the Protheans were the only race to ever achieve the ability of creating Mass Relays.
It seems like the Reapers, for some reasons, attacked them when they were in a very late stage of evolution. Compare it to the current races. They are far away from the possibility of even understandind how a relay works, not to mention creating one, even as small as Conduit. Yet Reapers still decided it's "dinner time" for their huskies. Any clues why would that happen?

What makes you think they were the only ones?

Various races have been more or less advanced in different things compared to eachother. No one else has repeated the Leviathan of Dis, to our knowledge, or the Prothean beacon tech.

[nitrog100]

If the species isn't advanced enough, then the Reapers don't really get anything out of harvesting them. Ooh, I just got an idea! What if the Leviathan of Dis was another Reaper that doesn't want to continue the cycle of destruction. Sovereign said that the Reapers are each a nation. Maybe the Leviathan will help out the rest of the galaxy and give them technology that could defeat the Reapers.

Modifié par nitrog100, 13 juin 2011 - 04:15 .

[devSin]

Dave666 wrote...

The point of searching for the Conduit was that Sovereign didn't know what it was.  Sovereign had no idea it was simply a back door onto the Citadel.  All that Sovereign knew was that when it sent the usual signal to the Citadel, the Keepers ignored it.  This is not something that they had ever done before, so naturally Sovereign put two and two together and realized that it must have been something that the Protheans did.

Sovereign didn't have to. It just had to shoot in and override the system (and it knew exactly what it had to do). For some reason, Saren had to do something at the tower, because the genius alien machine race of infinite age couldn't build an automated system. And so they went to find the Conduit (the purpose of the beacons were just to get its location, which the Protheans in their great wisdom chose to broadcast to the galaxy after they had already been exterminated, even though any survivors could just fly over to the Citadel once the Reapers had left).

Dave666 wrote...

Sovereign then uses Saren to use a Prothean Beacon to try to figure out what they did, just in case there were any other nasty surprises lying in wait.  Saren then discovered something about a Conduit, but few details.  Sovereign now had a name 'Conduit', but no clue where it was and its possible that Sovereign didn't even know for sure what it was.  Sovereign then decided, quite reasonably to find out more about this 'Conduit'.

Sovereign obviously knew what the conduit was. When he sent the signal, the keepers ignored it. His purpose was then to breach the Citadel and activate the "relay" (the Citadel) himself.

Dave666 wrote...

Remember that the Citadel can close the 'Arms' effectively sealing the Citadel and heavily fortifying it.  Had Sovereign simply shown up on their doorstep its entirely possible that they would have simpy closed the arms and then what does Sovereign do?

Which is what happened. But Sovereign waltzed in anyway (he just plowed through the fleet and even right through a ship) and wrapped his tentacles around the tower. And even when he was a sitting duck, he was still not in much danger of dying (it wasn't until he assumed direct control of Saren's augmented remains and got killed again that his systems went offline).

The Collectors make even less sense. The Reapers wasted their time creating scavengers (and apparently decided not to choose some of the earlier races from millions of years ago that were reputed to be far more advanced) to pluck some backwater colonists (apparently not even important enough to be mentioned at all until the "plot" of ME2 is sprung on the player)? The Collectors could have harvested Eden Prime or any other major colony themselves and had billions of pounds of meat to make their voodoo doll. But they just flit around pretending to be menacing, using the mysterious relay that just happens to lead to the most pointless place in the galaxy (what on earth reason would anybody have to waste time even building a relay to some bufu region of the Milky Way), and for no apparent reason is smack in a heavily populated system that has another relay that works normally.

The Reapers are obviously defective. All that time in deep space has apparently shorted their circuits. It's probably just Sovereign's ultra-deep voice that made it seem threatening, because if you just look at their actions, they're pretty clueless.