148 réponses à ce sujet

[Eternalsteelfan]

JackalofMons wrote...

Also of note is that even today there is thorough psychological screening for special forces applicants, to make sure that the people they train for this high intensity role are mentally tough enough for the high pressures of the job. Considering this is the future, and that Shepard has reached the top level of special forces training and proficiency, he/she would likely have undergone more advanced psychological screening than we have available today.
Add to that the fact that Shepard was inducted into the Spectres, an even more selective group, he/she would have to be tough enough to endure the pressures of what he/she has been through. Either that or every psychiactric professional at each stage has made a monument stuff-up... unlikely.

No one is beyond psychological harm, even Soviet-era GRU Spetsnaz completely desensitized to combat are still human at their core. In Mass Effect we are talking about the highest of stakes, personal loss, the genocide of not only the human race but all races, and the experience of a horribly painful death.
 
It's either you're a sociopath, which itself is a psychological disorder, or you're going to have normal mental strain.

[Lady Catastrophe]

If Shepard truly is hallucinating (which I very much doubt),I assume it would be due to indoctrination,not PTSD.

[Eternalsteelfan]

Lady Catastrophe wrote...

If Shepard truly is hallucinating (which I very much doubt),I assume it would be due to indoctrination,not PTSD.

Eternalsteelfan wrote...

To clarify, I didn't say I support Shepard having vivid hallucinations, only that the theories of such caused me to think in greater depth about his psychological state. As such read the TL:DR if you must skim.

An example of what would be good in Mass Effect 3 is the DLC in 2 where you visit the crash site of the Normandy.

[Nimander]

There isn't a lot of time for Shepard to discuss issues, no.

There was a good scene in LotSB though, with Liara, where you could do so -- he could say he's worried, frustrated, or he's fine. It let the people who wanted to RP having their Shepard be less than invincible do so while those who wanted the Paragon (as in some comics, not Paragon morality) could not be so weakened. It worked well, really.

A few more of those would be interesting. Mandated weakness isn't going to work though, as every player sees Shepard differently.

[levannar]

My problem with this idea is that I feel ME3 is too late for it. It could've worked in ME2 after getting revived (actually, I was a little disappointed that we never got the chance to properly address that--IMO it was a missed opportunity), but what so early in ME3 could prompt such an extreme response from Shepard? The trial? The Reaper attack? Doubtful. The thing is, nothing happens that would be more traumatizing than the stuff s/he's already gone through. And if it's a delayed effect of other events, that'd need a lot of tedious explanations, and people would still probably ask "Why didn't this happen back then?"

In short, it'd be confusing and off-putting. As someone said before me, there are lots of subtler ways to implement such mental strain. I feel that hallucinations, in this case, would be too much too sudden after the complete lack of such issues in ME2.

[Eternalsteelfan]

Once again, hallucinations are not the topic. But yes, it is late for an intimate look at his burdened mind, but I'm not sold on the "too" part.

[HTTP 404]

Clonedzero wrote...

psychological issues wouldnt work well in a story like this. basically because theres too many variables to make the condition believable.

saying its from the beacons and cipher makes no sense with visions like that.

basically, save that stuff for another game where it'd work alot better.

just say its from reaper attempts to indoctrinate Shepard. 

I do agree with OP, it would be nice to humanize shepard a little bit.  The trick is for players to OWN the weakness. Like someone said about LotSB, player could choose for shepard to say he is frustrated.

Modifié par HTTP 404, 13 juin 2011 - 04:02 .

[Eternalsteelfan]

Yes, integration with player choice would be interesting.

[ReallyRue]

I don't want my Shep to be hallucinating, but the option to express a little emotional turmoil wouldn't hurt, even if it's in the same format as the conversation with Jacob/Liara and they ask how Shep is doing. Shep can say they're frustrated, worried, feeling stressed, feeling guilty, etc.

[Akizora]

If there is a psychological fallout, you should be able to decide what it is yourself. Like in Lair of the Shadowbroker where Liara asks Shepard how he really feels and not what he tells his crew to keep morale up. You have several answers, because you can decide how your Shepard feels in that situation.

Having a psychological fallout forced upon me as a method of saying "Ok Shepard is of fragile mind regardless of how you roleplayed him" is honestly just bull and breaks immersion for A LOT of players. For my colonist ruthless Shepard that let his entire unit die just so he could kill Batarians and complete his mission, any deaths are irrelevant. Shepards only friends in my game are Garrus and Wrex, and his LIs are both Liara and Tali. Although he would still not break apart and hallucinate if he lost any of them, he would go on a killingspree.

[Had-to-say]

Kudos to the OP!

Modifié par Had-to-say, 13 juin 2011 - 05:05 .

[Eternalsteelfan]

Had-to-say wrote...





Kudos to the OP!

I... tha... hmm. Thank you.

[Eternalsteelfan]

Shameful bump for the afternoon crowd before I go to sleep. Maybe there will be something interesting when I return.

[Destroy Raiden_]

I don't think the child was a hallucination nor should he be. I do agree with OP that shep should show some stress from all the galaxy resting on his/her shoulders. I think shep should have one breakdown at least weather that be crying or him/her going on an insane killing spree on his enemies in an uncontrollable seeing red moment.

I think the beacons depending on what he encounters should allow a physical sign of shep becoming weak a prothean beacon shep will recover fairly quickly but a reaper would take longer and he'd be vulnerable longer like we saw in arrival.

I liked in assassins creed how Desmond hallucinates in the real world seeing things only he can but I'm not sure shep would do the same. I could see him hallucinating if the reapers hacked him and he was seeing Saren sense I could buy like the geth the reapers link to each other and experience their memories and so Harbi or whomever hacked shep will know about Saren and Sovereign and shep gains this info too sense he has reaper tech inside him.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 15 juin 2011 - 02:02 .

[Metalunatic]

Nimander wrote...

There isn't a lot of time for Shepard to discuss issues, no.

There was a good scene in LotSB though, with Liara, where you could do so -- he could say he's worried, frustrated, or he's fine. It let the people who wanted to RP having their Shepard be less than invincible do so while those who wanted the Paragon (as in some comics, not Paragon morality) could not be so weakened. It worked well, really.

Exactly. More stuff like this could work very well.

[JackalofMons]

Eternalsteelfan wrote...

JackalofMons wrote...

Also of note is that even today there is thorough psychological screening for special forces applicants, to make sure that the people they train for this high intensity role are mentally tough enough for the high pressures of the job. Considering this is the future, and that Shepard has reached the top level of special forces training and proficiency, he/she would likely have undergone more advanced psychological screening than we have available today.
Add to that the fact that Shepard was inducted into the Spectres, an even more selective group, he/she would have to be tough enough to endure the pressures of what he/she has been through. Either that or every psychiactric professional at each stage has made a monument stuff-up... unlikely.

No one is beyond psychological harm, even Soviet-era GRU Spetsnaz completely desensitized to combat are still human at their core. In Mass Effect we are talking about the highest of stakes, personal loss, the genocide of not only the human race but all races, and the experience of a horribly painful death.
 
It's either you're a sociopath, which itself is a psychological disorder, or you're going to have normal mental strain.

I'm not saying Shep is some superman invincible to emotional harm, he/she's human. It's just that it's v. unlikely that he/she would suffer a major break due to the strain of what he/she has been through due to the screening, training and evalutions Shep would have had to pass in order to arrive at the position of Spectre. Mental toughness is something Shep would have, it's part of his/her psychological profile.

This was in response to speculation that Shep was hallucinating when the child appeared, or would otherwise at least be suffering some form of PTSD.
Shep would feel the pressure, just not break under it. His/Her emotional response to what he/she is going through is best examined by giving the option to explore this in conversation with friends, LIs and certain allies in game.

[Had-to-say]

So does anyone know why Watchmen was so popular and ground breaking? I am having a lazy typing day please someone help me elaborate why flawed characters are more interesting... Supermans is boring and Batman is cool etc.

[JackalofMons]

Correction to my previous post.

The speculation was not that the child was a hallucination (SPOILER - He's real), the original poster for the thread was stating that it might have been a good way for shepard to exhibit signs of the emotional stress he/she has endured.

[Nimander]

Don't look at me. I think Moore is vastly overrated, and like both Batman and Superman.

The issue is 'flawed characters are more interesting' is subjective. And this depends on what one calls flaws as well, also a subjective thing. Often, people go overboard into angst-porn, which is a genre I loathe.

[HTTP 404]

Had-to-say wrote...

So does anyone know why Watchmen was so popular and ground breaking? I am having a lazy typing day please someone help me elaborate why flawed characters are more interesting... Supermans is boring and Batman is cool etc.

its the ability for people to identify with character.  Since everyone struggles in life....except for Kanye

[Had-to-say]

I think Shepard should have some failures. I know Shepard is going to take lots of heat for the Arrival DLC. Shouldn't Shepard be in prison? Something smells fishy at the Citadel and it's not the lakes.

[Virginian]

My Shepard doesn't imagine little boys because she is no pedo.

My Shepard imagines naked adult males of any species and adult asaris.

My Shepard is not traumatized she is highly motivated, death will do that to a person.

[Eternalsteelfan]

Had-to-say wrote...

So does anyone know why Watchmen was so popular and ground breaking? I am having a lazy typing day please someone help me elaborate why flawed characters are more interesting... Supermans is boring and Batman is cool etc.

As someone said earlier, it's important for consumers of the work to identify with the protagonist, flaws are something every human has and can identify with, perfection is for egomaniacs. A flaw or weakness is part of the layers that comprise a complex character, such traits and aspects also add to the obstacles and difficulties a protagonist may face and, ultimately, overcome. It's also a matter of believability.

[Had-to-say]

Eternalsteelfan wrote...

Had-to-say wrote...

So does anyone know why Watchmen was so popular and ground breaking? I am having a lazy typing day please someone help me elaborate why flawed characters are more interesting... Supermans is boring and Batman is cool etc.

As someone said earlier, it's important for consumers of the work to identify with the protagonist, flaws are something every human has and can identify with, perfection is for egomaniacs. A flaw or weakness is part of the layers that comprise a complex character, such traits and aspects also add to the obstacles and difficulties a protagonist may face and, ultimately, overcome. It's also a matter of believability.

Shepard had a conversation with Hackett after the Arrival DLC. Shepard is one cold mofo. This may be a character flaw. The man can't feel. I as a player felt bad, real bad. As much as I dislike Batarians, I wouldn't make that decision. This was a chance to show him a little angry. Shepard was like it was  just another mission. Shepard is the best Spectre ever, but  is Shepard losing his humanity?   
  

Modifié par Had-to-say, 14 juin 2011 - 04:58 .

[Ghost Warrior]

Had-to-say wrote...

nd difficulties a protagonist may face and, ultimately, overcome. It's also a matter of believability.

Shepard had a conversation with Hackett after the Arrival DLC. Shepard is one cold mofo. This may be a character flaw. The man can't feel. I as a player felt bad, real bad. As much as I dislike Batarians, I wouldn't make that decision. This was a chance to show him a little angry. Shepard was like it was  just another mission. Shepard is the best Spectre ever, but  is Shepard losing his humanity?   
  

That reminded me of ME1 launch trailer - "What is your humanity worth?"
I agree that Shepard needs to show more feelings,but I disagree with that particular example. I mean,he was just being professional with his superior,Hackett.

Modifié par Ghost Warrior, 14 juin 2011 - 05:56 .