148 réponses à ce sujet

[Medhia Nox]

So it would seem that people aren't interested in real characters after all. They're still interested in the monolithic, untouchable hero.

It's interesting because criticism of "The Warden" is that he's too wooden and that the "Ultimate Hero vs. the Unstoppable Evil" is a tired cliche - and yet, without some sort of "humanity" instilled into the story... here we are again.

I'm all for Shepard showing some sign that he's human.

I've read real life accounts of what it was like to be in a bomber during some of the great air battles of WWII - and those soldiers weren't robotic badasses. They were men - with fear and hope and sacrifice.

Haven't any of you at least watched movies with soldiers in them? They're people - not emotionless dolls.

Shepard can still be a badass and have emotion.

Paragon Shepard should express them - whether it's through tears, or talking, or some other outlet.

Renegade Shepard should bottle them up - and take up a self-destructive hobby like drinking, drugs, some other outlet.

[marshalleck]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Renegade Shepard should bottle them up - and take up a self-destructive hobby like drinking, drugs, some other outlet.

Blowing things up?

[Medhia Nox]

@Marshalleck - well, yes, in real life excessive violence would be a self-destructive outlet. But let's be realistic.. this is a video game.

I suppose even MORE excessive violence... maybe, he gets into fights with civilians far easier (and no, the reporter doesn't "completely" count)

[BloodySerpent]

And come on, since when could you say 5 nice things to someone before they love you? You talk to Liara about who she is during 3 conversations, and suddenly you two are in love. Better characterization would lead to better romance stories, as well.

[marshalleck]

 How about blowing things up even when that's not the mission parameters? 

[Medhia Nox]

@marshalleck - that would work. I'm only reluctant to use it because the "standard" of a video game is to "blow the hell out of everything" so it hardly means anything to have this as a character building quality.

I mean - technically even Mario destroys every bastard that gets in his way. (I'm looking at YOU KOOPA!)

[marshalleck]

Mario's rufless.

[Aimi]

marshalleck wrote...

 How about blowing things up even when that's not the mission parameters? 

Just like Ace Combat Zero! 

[marshalleck]

On perhaps a more serious note: did you ever see Martin Sheen's breakdown scene in Apocalypse Now? Would something like that be too overwrought for Shepard?

[Inprea]

I'm rather opposed to the idea of my fem Shepard having a mental break down despite the difficulties she's endured. I prefer the idea that she's overcome those hardships and become stronger for them. I can understand a bit with those wanting to make their character seem a little more emotionally vulnerable though.

Personally I believe there should be two determining factors in how the character presents themselves. The first would only have limited player control and would depend on how high your Paragon or Renegade score is. As for me strongly paragon or strongly renegade shows your Shepard knows who they are and what they believe in.

The second factor I do agree should be the players choice. If they want to portray their Shepard as weak and perhaps needing some quiet time or a shoulder to cry on. Once again not my thing though. I prefer if my Shepard is the pillar that those around her can rely upon to stand strong.

[Medhia Nox]

@Marshalleck - NO! That's excellent!

@Inprea - funny you say "weak" .  I hope you never have to go to war - because emotionless badass robot Shepard doesn't exist on the battlefield.

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 16 juin 2011 - 12:16 .

[BloodySerpent]

Well all the opposing viewpoints on this thread can easily be fixed by putting in Sheperd character moments that are triggered via player option. That way, those who don't want it don't have to see it, and those who do want it can choose to have it.

[Aedan_Cousland]

If Shepard's psyche is so damaged that he has started to hallucinate, he is no longer capable of command, and should be relieved of it.

I'm all for Shep showing signs of exhaustion from literally having the weight of the universe on his shoulders, or carrying some psychological scars (PTSD), but he should remain sane and functioning. Otherwise he's no longer believable as the only person capable of stopping the Reapers.

[BloodySerpent]

Most people have moved past the hallucination thing. We just want him to show some "cracks in the armor" type thing now. Actually you put it pretty well, "signs of exhaustion from literally having the weight of the universe on his shoulders".

[blind black]

BloodySerpent wrote...

Well all the opposing viewpoints on this thread can easily be fixed by putting in Sheperd character moments that are triggered via player option. That way, those who don't want it don't have to see it, and those who do want it can choose to have it.

^this.

[HogarthHughes 3]

Had-to-say wrote...

Thanks.  I watched Dead Space the animated movie. Wasn't there a device on that planet that causes people to go crazy? So is the main character Isaac is it , is he suffering from PTSD or is he just scared out of his mind? I think this is a highly underrated game by the way. Game was so scary I couldn't finish it. I would love to go back and try it again. I would always play it at night.
 
I think the tactic is overused in Dead Space. It kinda cheapens the experience to see it over and over again. I don't want it to become a gameplay mechanic problem. 

What I thought was the kid was a personification of Shepard's Pysche.  

Spoilers for Dead Space ahead - The dementia Isaac and every other character encountered in both games suffers from is caused by a big sentient statue-looking thing called a Marker.  The Marker also happens to be what causes the mutant zombie outbreak, but Isaac is hallucinating because the Marker wants him to.  In fact, the Marker even uses those hallucinations to guide Isaac along the path it desires.

Anyways to be more on-topic, I would enjoy having dialogue options that allow the player to choose how Shepard is feeling like at the end of LotSB.

[trobbins777]

Shepard is Henry V, not Hamlet.

(shakespeare reference)

[KiraTsukasa]

Shepard is at the highest rank of the special forces division in the Alliance military (N7). I'm pretty sure that he would have a regular psychological review to ensure that he is fit for duty. And I doubt that these issues would just pop up between ME1 and ME3, especially since he spent the majority of that time DEAD.

[Medhia Nox]

So you think every soldier that's fit for duty doesn't have psychological issues due to the things they've seen and experienced?

People can't even deal with paying their bills - or dealing with a nagging spouse. They have to drink - or need a day off - or smoke up - or play video games, to escape "real life".

Watching your teammates entrails splatter all over the linoleum while he screams out for his mother... you try to step forward to help him but you slip, your knees crashing into his gore... he gurgles and you scramble to put his stuff back in... he gives you a blaming look. You're the Commander - you let him down...

Yeah, good to go right?

I think the greatest fantasy about all these RPGs is how they trivialize war and death. A shame really - lots of people with some romanticized delusions.

[KiraTsukasa]

Medhia Nox wrote...

So you think every soldier that's fit for duty doesn't have psychological issues due to the things they've seen and experienced?

People can't even deal with paying their bills - or dealing with a nagging spouse. They have to drink - or need a day off - or smoke up - or play video games, to escape "real life".

Watching your teammates entrails splatter all over the linoleum while he screams out for his mother... you try to step forward to help him but you slip, your knees crashing into his gore... he gurgles and you scramble to put his stuff back in... he gives you a blaming look. You're the Commander - you let him down...

Yeah, good to go right?

I think the greatest fantasy about all these RPGs is how they trivialize war and death. A shame really - lots of people with some romanticized delusions.

I would think that every soldier that's fit for duty doesn't have debilitating psychological issues, such as seeing children in vent ducts.

Obviously, people that can't deal with trivial things aren't fit for duty.

When something like that happens it is usually brought up in the mission debrief and at such time it is determined to give the officer some R&R, at the least, and a psychological review. Even police officers are given the same thing after being shot before returning to active duty.

I'm not sure what you mean by "romanticized delusions" when most of us happen to actually know what we're talking about.

[KreeCapt]

My Shepard was Born "Inhuman"

[Medhia Nox]

You might not though - since a great deal of people on this thread have moved beyond "debilitating psychological issues" like hallucinations.

I didn't mention the kid - I want Shepard to be something more than a teen-fantasy version of what a soldier is.

[SkittlesKat96]

Casey Hudson said we would get to see more of Shepard's personality and know a bit about his past more and also I don't see why its so hard to do...Shepard doesn't need to directly talk about his traumas or anything, think of that scene in ME 1 before Ilos when he's sitting against the wall or whatever, its small scenes like that which the OP is talking about.

They don't need to overdo it or anything.

EDIT: Mind you Shepard is a unique and different person

EDITEDIT: Player option is pretty good...say in dialog for example you can bring it up yourself

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 16 juin 2011 - 05:46 .

[Golden Owl]

Eternalsteelfan wrote...

I was disappointed when I read in the stickied IGN article that the boy in the vents from the Earth demo was real. There was some psychological theorizing going on that the boy may have been a hallucination or figment of Shephard's mind. This made sense to me considering the traumas Shephard has been through, for example: the experience of the Prothean beacon, the inability to save his friend or lover on Virmire, the assault on the Citadel, death/rebirth, and now the greatest nightmare realized: the invasion of Earth by the reapers with millions upon millions dying. This brings me to my point: along with being savior of the galaxy, Shephard is a flawed, imperfect human being; as such, there should be some wearing on his mind. Despite his badassitude and the weight of the universe on his shoulders, every human has a breaking point.

Under the kind of stresses Shephard has been exposed to, it's only reasonable to expect some signs of duress or weakness. In Mass Effect (the first) there was one brief moment I recall before the final planet where Shephard was sitting down against the wall, this is the only time I can think of Shephard showing his mortality. Post-Traumatic Stress is terribly common amongst soldiers and anyone who faces strong traumas like death, near death, and even the deaths or near deaths of others. We need to see Shephard showing some signs of the mental wear he has doubtlessly experienced.

I'm a film student with a concentration on screenwriting whom has nearly finished his education, as such I have some authority, take it for what it's worth, when I say the greatest protagonists (and antagonists!) are the ones whose struggles we can seen and experience, those who are flawed and show weakness at times. If this finale is to be as emotionally impactful as Bioware claims, we're going to need to see past Shepard's the facade of strength.

TL;DR
Despite his badassitude, Shephard needs some moments of weakness in light of the three games full of tragedy.

I can see your points EternalSteelFan...though just as valid is the commonality that a person in a highly traumatized, high pressure situation that Shep is in, is able to hold it together through the event while their still needed....though once the Reapers are defeated, I would then expect Shep to go through a major emotional crash...thats when you would hope someone is there to catch him and help him back to his feet.

Modifié par Golden Owl, 16 juin 2011 - 06:22 .

[Daddy Bags]

In ME1, Liara clearly states that Shepard's ability to understand, let alone, survive the Prothean Beacon experience and the effects of the Cipher is because he is "Extremely strong willed."

Given that information, the fact that he suffers from any type of War related disorders are highly unlikely IMO. He's pretty much unique to the point where he's probably immune to those disorders.

(I mean no offense to anyone who suffers from those disorders.)