45 réponses à ce sujet

[DKJaigen]

Foolsfolly wrote...

What you knwo about politics wouldnt fill a coffeecup. As the saying goes the enemy of my enemy is my friend and the Tevinter imperium can gain a lot by helping the mages.

Oh, nice.

So their constant war with the Qunari that has raged for oh, say, 300 years wouldn't put a damper in that? I mean if they spread out into the south with their army wouldn't that make them weaker to the resist the Qunari?

Spreading themselves thin (they're not the once mighty Imperium anymore).

And that's the thing you're forgetting. They're in decline. Without slaves they have no economy, they cannot expand because they're constantly at war, and they're ruled by mage families and lords who are indulgent and self-centered.

It's very likely the most interesting place in Thedas we've yet to visit. But they're not some all might army anymore. They can battle the qunari to a standstill. But they very well can't take on the Qunari and all Thedas for a fight they gain nothing from.

And they gain nothing from helping the Mages of Thedas. For a price they'll smuggle people into Tevinter. They might even do some slaving raids while the rest of the nations are weak in their civil wars. But they couldn't take on the Andrastian states and the Qunari at the same time. They'd lose.

The magisters would look at their options, profit a little from black market trade, some nice slaving, and stay out of it. I truly doubt the senate would view this war as their business, officially (since again I see them selling goods and people because they're always after an advantage and wealth and power). Because if they weaken themselves a little the Qunari will press the attack harder.

I honestly think many posters on these boards here "Tevinter" and think "Mage Paradise." They're slavers and profiteers out for number one. They'll do as they always do, profit from the war but not fight for some ideal such a 'freedom.' It's absurd.

EDIT:

And what's this 'enemy of my enemy' BS? They're not at war with the Orleisan Chantry. They haven't been for centuries. They just ignore each other.

It's not 'enemy of my enemy' it's more like 'enemy of acquaintance'.

LOL who said all nations. If you played the game you would know that the thedas nations are currently at each other throats or not able to function in a organised military way against the tevinter imperium. furtermre the tevinter has access to mages and that means they will have a massive advantage over the thedas nations. And once again you knowledge of politics suck.

[Annie_Dear]

Foolsfolly wrote...

The problem with saying Tevinter is involved is that Tevinter gains nothing from being involved.

Not true. The Tevinter Chantry is most likely pleased to see the other Chantry lose it's power.

[sphinxess]

The Tevinter is not some sort of magic uses paradise. Very few magisters are going to take one as a apprentice and a mage fleeing to Tevinter could very well be tossed into their circle.of magi.

[DreamerM]

sphinxess wrote...

The Tevinter is not some sort of magic uses paradise. Very few magisters are going to take one as a apprentice and a mage fleeing to Tevinter could very well be tossed into their circle.of magi.

Not to mention the Magisters have no problem enslaving other mages as well as anyone else they fancy. And slaves are everything from valued, magically-enfused status symbols to furtilizer.

A mage has a chance of getting ahead in Tevinter, but only if s/he is as ruthless as powerful. I get the feeling everyone who is not a mage doesn't have ANY real chance...

[maxernst]

My sense is that Tevinter most likely lacks the military strength to campaign elsewhere in Thedas. They're too nervous about the Qunari. But I do think that they would very much like to see the Orlesian Chantry collapse and general chaos in the rest of Thedas, given that they have led exalted marches against Tevinter in the past. If the mess ends with a "reformed" chantry is more like the Tevinter Chantry and open to its influence, so much the better.

[Foolsfolly]

My sense is that Tevinter most likely lacks the military strength to campaign elsewhere in Thedas.

The fact that they've constantly been at war with the Qunari tells me they have a very capable army.

The Qunari have a rather large technological advantage over the rest of Thedas. So the Tevinter army has to be either rather large (and they use slaves as cannonfodder) or full of supremely powerful mages.

[DPSSOC]

ddv.rsa wrote...
But how well known would these facts be? And when survivors claim they weren't involved, will everyone just take their word for it? I don't see how mages accross Thedas can pull enough facts out of Kirkwall to do something as drastic as a continental revolution. Even Cassandra doesn't know what happened.

There must be more to it.

Two words: Varric Tethras

[Dean_the_Young]

Besides the general context of the times, the element of the third party instigating and inflaming the problems in Kirkwall is another aspect of what makes it special: such a party, whoever it is and for whatever reasons they are doing so, is unlikely to 'just' want trouble in Kirkwall, but would also spread influence elsewhere as well.

DPSSOC wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...
But how well known would these facts be? And when survivors claim they weren't involved, will everyone just take their word for it? I don't see how mages accross Thedas can pull enough facts out of Kirkwall to do something as drastic as a continental revolution. Even Cassandra doesn't know what happened.

There must be more to it.

Two words: Varric Tethras

More accurately, six more words: And?


The fact that Varric needs to be hunted down by Chantry investigators to reveal the story in the first place rather implies he wasn't going it around sharing it with everyone and making it common knowledge, if that's what you were trying to imply,

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 29 juin 2011 - 02:28 .

[Raygereio]

Foolsfolly wrote...
The fact that they've constantly been at war with the Qunari tells me they have a very capable army.
The Qunari have a rather large technological advantage over the rest of Thedas. So the Tevinter army has to be either rather large (and they use slaves as cannonfodder) or full of supremely powerful mages.

It's Tevinter; I'd expect lot's of mages. That and considering their longstanding war with the Qunari a decent sized standing army that has training and decent equipment.
But having that army is one thing. Can they project any significant military force outside of Tevinter and can they affort to move forces away from the Qunari? Those are the important questions.

Dean_the_Young wrote...
The fact that Varric needs to be hunted down by Chantry investigators to reveal the story in the first place rather implies he wasn't going it around sharing it with everyone and making it common knowledge, if that's what you were trying to imply,

Varric was hunted down because the chantry wanted to know what really happened. It could be that Varric's fairytale version featuring Hawke's busty sister became known.

Modifié par Raygereio, 29 juin 2011 - 02:40 .

[Dean_the_Young]

"So, the Champion, yeah, he had a sister with honkers like, thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis wide."

"That doesn't sound-"

"Each."

[Northern Sun]

One of the biggest perks to the Circle Wynne mentions is that it protects mages from the outside world. If an apostate kills some villagers, the Circle/Templars protect the mages from angry mobs. The fact that the actions of an apostate was used as an excuse to execute Circle mages makes it a lot harder to argue that point, even with Meredith's mental instability.

A lot of Circle mages probably thought "If the Templars are just going to kill us anyway, why bother submitting?"

[DPSSOC]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

ddv.rsa wrote...
But how well known would these facts be? And when survivors claim they weren't involved, will everyone just take their word for it? I don't see how mages accross Thedas can pull enough facts out of Kirkwall to do something as drastic as a continental revolution. Even Cassandra doesn't know what happened.

There must be more to it.

Two words: Varric Tethras

More accurately, six more words: And?

The fact that Varric needs to be hunted down by Chantry investigators to reveal the story in the first place rather implies he wasn't going it around sharing it with everyone and making it common knowledge, if that's what you were trying to imply,

Right from  the start Varric makes mention of stories about Hawke, "Does that not match the story you've heard Seeker."  My guess is that, after leaving Hawke's side (and possibly before) Varric was doing what Varric does, spreading stories.  These stories eventually got to the ears of the Chantry who tracked it to Varric and they went to him looking for the truth.  Just my thoughts but it explains how word got around, Varric says himself, "that's all history is; the best tales, the ones that last.  Might as well be mine."  You honestly think Varric could be part of something like starting a mage rebellion and keep his mouth shut?

[TJPags]

what was so special?

It was the only anullment they made an entire video game about.

[Keizor]

Slightly off topic, but I was wondering how Meredith initiated the Rite of Annulment at all. In DA:O, Knight-Commander Greagoir had to wait for authorization for the Rite. (I forget from who.) Maybe that detail doesn't matter since Meredith was clearly committed down that path from the start. I'm just curious how the Chantry will react to her overstepping her chain-of-command and how that affects its view on the whole "mage uprising."

[LobselVith8]

Keizor wrote...

Slightly off topic, but I was wondering how Meredith initiated the Rite of Annulment at all. In DA:O, Knight-Commander Greagoir had to wait for authorization for the Rite. (I forget from who.) Maybe that detail doesn't matter since Meredith was clearly committed down that path from the start. I'm just curious how the Chantry will react to her overstepping her chain-of-command and how that affects its view on the whole "mage uprising."

Gaider said Meredith could legally order the Right of Annulment because Kirkwall was without a Grand Cleric, which means that since Elthina died, Meredith could legally order genocide of the hundreds of men, women, and children living in the Gallows simply because she had a bad hair day.

[TEWR]

Because Anders obliterated the Chantry and every Chantry priest who could take the mantle of Grand Cleric, the authority then passed on to Meredith.


Knight Commander Gregoir asked the Grand Cleric stationed in Denerim for the Right of Annulment, because Ferelden still had a Grand Cleric. Kirkwall did not.

[HighMoon]

Do you think that every single Chantry priest in Kirkwall was killed in the explosion? I imagine there were some priests/sisters etc. who weren't in the Chantry at the time of the incident, though I suspect that the greater bulk of them were taken out in the explosion.

[Keizor]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Keizor wrote...

Slightly off topic, but I was wondering how Meredith initiated the Rite of Annulment at all. In DA:O, Knight-Commander Greagoir had to wait for authorization for the Rite. (I forget from who.) Maybe that detail doesn't matter since Meredith was clearly committed down that path from the start. I'm just curious how the Chantry will react to her overstepping her chain-of-command and how that affects its view on the whole "mage uprising."

Gaider said Meredith could legally order the Right of Annulment because Kirkwall was without a Grand Cleric, which means that since Elthina died, Meredith could legally order genocide of the hundreds of men, women, and children living in the Gallows simply because she had a bad hair day.

Ah, so now I see what Anders meant by "removing the chance of compromise."  Without the Grand Cleric, or anyone who could fill the roll, Anders knew Meredith's response was inevitable, thus forcing the mages to fight back, clever.

But what about the Chantry as a whole?  If Meredith was successful in defeating the Champion, would the Chantry look favorably on her decisions, reasoning she did the best she could, given the death of the Grand Cleric?  Or would they look unfavorably, since her actions invariably sparked a world wide mage rebellion?

[TEWR]

Golden-Rose wrote...

Do you think that every single Chantry priest in Kirkwall was killed in the explosion? I imagine there were some priests/sisters etc. who weren't in the Chantry at the time of the incident, though I suspect that the greater bulk of them were taken out in the explosion.

The explosion happened at night, and chantry priests live in the Chantry, so yes I do think they were all killed.

[Dragonella1]

[quote]Raygereio wrote...

[quote]Foolsfolly wrote...
The fact that they've constantly been at war with the Qunari tells me they have a very capable army.
The Qunari have a rather large technological advantage over the rest of Thedas. So the Tevinter army has to be either rather large (and they use slaves as cannonfodder) or full of supremely powerful mages.[/quote]
It's Tevinter; I'd expect lot's of mages. That and considering their longstanding war with the Qunari a decent sized standing army that has training and decent equipment.
But having that army is one thing. Can they project any significant military force outside of Tevinter and can they affort to move forces away from the Qunari? Those are the important questions.

[quote]
 
I don't think that Tevinter will start open war in defense of mages. Even if they can afford to spare army form Qunari front, it would be very stupid step as their actions would become fuel for the White Chantry propaganda accusing mages for attempts to establish magocracy. I would rather suspect them to provide financial and logistic support for mage underground, and probably help with communication between Circles using their spy network (I am sure they have one).
It might be a conspiratory theory but I suspect that Tevinter is behind the most radical mage movements. It seems that most problems started after Orlais made friendly gesture towards Qunari offering to give back the Tom of Koslun. Friendly exchange between Qunari and the country that is a stronghold of the White Chantry would probably make Tevinter quite nervous and push it to do some serious plotting haw to weaken potential enemy.

[Arokel]

Think that that it was because of a combination of factors that made Kirkwall the perfect flashpoint. Here are the ones I can think of.

Kirkwall's templars were, in general, much more radical than in other places. They routinely performed the rite of tranquility on narrowed mages, an act illegal under Chantry law.

The Veil is unusually thin in Kirkwall. As a result demons have easier access to mages. It is even said that in the lower levels demons can contact those born without magic. This higher level of vulnerability to demons only serves to validate the fears of the templars.

In other Circles (eg Ferelden's) the power of the First Enchanter was greater than in Kirkwall. For example in Ferelden's circle the signatures of both the knight-commander and the First Enchanter were required to make a mage tranquil while in Kirkwall Meredith had almost absolute power over the circle.

In short while there is tension between Templar and Mage throughout Thedas it is in Kirkwall that the worst of both sides are in ascendance. It is in Kirkwall that the most zealous of templars and most ruthless of blood mages reside. Kirkwall was always going to erupt into conflict. All it took to was a little push.

Modifié par Arokel, 03 juillet 2011 - 10:26 .