65 réponses à ce sujet

[Grunt Lord]

would love this idea
Colonization/base world or hub world

[stysiaq]

Well, since you already said this, I think the main mission in ME3 is kind of too important to actually complete tons of insignificant sidequests... so I guess the sidequests will have to be somehow related with the main story. If not, I'll do the main plot first, all of the sidequests second. I don't want to go through another 'all-crew-is-melted' fiasco, as in my first ME2 playthrough (reloaded it after)

[sp0ck 06]

Eurhetemec wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

Having just played through Overlord again, I was struck by how awesome of a side mission it was.  Great exploration sections, dark and compelling plot, good action.  This got me to thinking: rather than 20-25 generic UNC type missions, wouldn't you rather have a fewer number of beefy missions like Overlord in ME3?

Especially considering how little sense it makes to be exploring uncharted worlds in the midst of the Reaper invasion.  4 or 5 big Overlord style missions that could be directly tied into the invasion story arc would be great.  I mean, does anyone really enjoy the side missions in either ME1 or 2?  They're short, contain little to no dialogue or story, and don't make much sense.  A few big side missions related to the invasion would be preferable IMO.

I'd rather have 25 UNC/N7-style missions than 5 Overlord-style ones, sorry. Overlord just wasn't very good. Some of the N7 missions are, for my money, actually more fun than it. Certainly 5 of them together are, imho.

Now, if it was Lair of the Shadow Broker, you might be talking, but I think we'll be lucky if ME3 has 2 missions better than LotSB in, and that's counting the story missions.

Btw, I think your "impending doom" argument is a poor one. You could use the same argument in all three of the ME games. You could use it in most CRPGs, in fact, but people like to go and do stuff, rather than following a narrow railroad.

Why did you not like Overlord?  I thought it was excellent overall: great atmosphere, good storyline, some decent fights, and stellar environments.  The sequence where your in the Hammerhead dodging Geth cannon blasts was just awesome.

I mean which N7 mission is better?  To me they're all thin excuses for a 5 minute fight in a random base with generic enemies and no dialogue.

I get what you mean about the impending doom.  I didn't mean I thought there should be no sidequests, I just felt like they should be tied more directly into the main storyline.

[blitzkkrieg]

I would really enjoy having a few (2-5) Overlord-like missions in ME3 that were sort of tied into the plot, but I think there should still be UNC/N7 missions.

I liked the side missions in both ME1 and ME2 that had a mini plot going on and taking you to various planets for the same mission (ME1 - killing the 2 crime lords then meeting the lady, wiping out the geth enclaves, etc. ME2 - messing with the blood pack's base, etc).

Maybe for ME3 something like going to various Cerberus facilities, weakening them at each location and collecting information on where TIM could be, then after enough information has been collected going to the main base and confronting him. I also want to see Shepard take down the 3 big mercenary groups, either during the invasion or after.

[Eurhetemec]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

Why did you not like Overlord?  I thought it was excellent overall: great atmosphere, good storyline, some decent fights, and stellar environments.  The sequence where your in the Hammerhead dodging Geth cannon blasts was just awesome.

I mean which N7 mission is better?  To me they're all thin excuses for a 5 minute fight in a random base with generic enemies and no dialogue.

I get what you mean about the impending doom.  I didn't mean I thought there should be no sidequests, I just felt like they should be tied more directly into the main storyline.

Sorry, not going to name a specific one, because that's just begging to get into a dumb internet argument as people who loved/hated that specific N7 duke it out.

However, I thought Overlord had a hackneyed, boring plot, stupid outdoor sections which were more frustrating than fun - that boss you mention was the only outdoor bit that didn't feel entirely pointless/time-wasting, the actual fights with the Geth, even on Insanity weren't very exciting, the "VR" bits were just dumb, and generally I was terminally unimpressed with everything EXCEPT the environments. Yes, Overlord had really good environments. LotSB had better ones, but Overlord's were good. The problem is they weren't very sci-fi. It was just a research base on a pretty terrestrial world. It could practically have been on Earth.

It wasn't terrible, and I don't regret buying it, but many of the N7 missions all had much for "science-fiction" flavour to them, some of them were more tactically interesting (on Insanity, anyway - the one with the dozens of robots and YMIR mechs, for example), and yeah, five together? I'd rather have that, because they expand the ME universe more.

At least it didn't have too many boring jumping puzzles, unlike other missions with the hovertank! I mean jesus, people complain about climbing hills in the Mako being a chore, and Bioware give us JUMPING PUZZLES? That's just mean, Bioware! MEAN!

As I've said, though, five side-missions as good as LotSB, I'd take that over 25 N7 missions, but I don't think that'd happen.

[JetsoverEverything]

overlord annoyed me after the 3rd playthrough.. but yes i would rather have less more cinematic missions than a bunch of missions that dont do jack **** but waste time IM SAVING LIVES DAMNIT!

[Someone With Mass]

Depends on the quality of the N7 missions.

I thought Overlord was boring most of the times, being forced to drive that paper thin Hammerhead and all.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

ME2's N7 missions lasted all of 30 seconds and gave you little-to-no sense of accomplishment.

ME1's UNC missions felt "bigger" to me.  More important.  I don't know, maybe part of it was Admiral Hackett.  The UNC missions sometimes gave you an opportunity for paragon/renegade points, they had a few conversations, and when I was taking down Cerberus for Admiral Kohoku, I felt like I was doing some good in the galaxy.

Then ME2 came along and seemed to retcon your history with Cerberus or something...

Edit: The UNC Listening Post missions were good too.  I didn't even know about them until my 4th playthrough or something like that.

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 13 juin 2011 - 08:57 .

[SKiLLYWiLLY2]

Overlord was still linear paths in my opinion. I didn't think it was that great, especially when compared to the freedom when on planets in ME1.

Also the hammerhead annoys me. It feel way too arcade-ish and is too fragile. The shaking screen and sound when firing rockets is horrible.

Also, yeah, ME1's assignments were a lot better than ME2's in my opinion.

Modifié par SKiLLYWiLLY2, 13 juin 2011 - 08:51 .

[Icinix]

LuPoM wrote...

Icinix wrote...

The idea behind the UNC was freedom.

There was something amazing about going off the beaten track to stand atop a mountain and stare at a valley below with a snow storm raging.

I loved Overlord, but a few open worlds to land on and stumble on a little out of the way camp with some ancient matriarch writings wouldn't go astray either.

Even if I agree with about the freedom and the amazingness of that view, if they were a bit more detalied like in Overlord (if you remember there was NO Vegetation whatsoever even in "green" wordls with space cows) it would have been better.

BUT (here comes my point of view) wouldn't it be too much derailing from the main story in ME3? I mean.. with the impending doom and the earth taken, do they practically have a place to fit in, story wise, since time should be of the essence?

Oh definitely, bring them back with a little more detail and a little more effort in the landscape, vegetation etc, they were desperately underdone - which is probably one of the reasons why so many didn't like them. But if you've got a half finished cake out of the oven, you don't just throw it away - you frost it and cover it with decoration.

The fact that there is such an impedending sense of doom is all the more reason to have them, its all the more reason to have a few little quirky side quests.  The serve a purpose two fold, one, remind the player that there is still a universe outside the galactic war, that breathes and turns, and all the more reason to fight to save it. Its easier to feel compassion when you make that connection yourself to a living breathing world, you can walk on it, drive on it, explore it, you'll want to save that more than thirty areas you killed a few Cerberus dudes at. And two, provides a little bit of down time to the player to stop and catch their breath, and get off the rails, so to speak.

We suspend so much else in the way of reality, story or time imposistion in games for this reason. We take away those moments of freedom, seperate from the game proper - and we lose a unique opportunity to take advantage of what the Mass Effect universe intended to be - and we may as well just have a game that starts, plays and finishes. Like a million others already there on the market.

[szkasypcze]

Damn!!! I'm running low on battery here.....

First of all I'd like to say that UNCHARTED missions were completely different from the N7. N7 worlds were linear. It was like going to toilet. Do your stuff and get out. UNC gave players possibility to look for the hidden, to explore. This opportunity to make ME1 even greater was partially lost by Bioware, however those ? signs on map were great findings. I wish they make me put more effort in that.

I know that this kind of missions will not be in ME3, but it would be cool to spend 3 hours on looking for some cool modification for you rifle among the mountains or a ancient artifact that could help you convince somebody to your side or gain a considerable advantage. I like when big gains come with big efforts.

As for Overlord... MAKO would make greater than Hammerhead.

It all goes with the spirit of our times. And that is comsumerism. To consume more and faster in order to consume more and faster. So ME2's N7 missions were faster, so you could do more and faster. Just to switch off thinking, be like an ape or a monkey. Shoot, take and go. "Don't worry, you will not have to look for anything.We will show you the way, just shoot." This is how the old spirit of the video games dies. Under the heels of consumerism and drive for profit.

[Gabriel S.]

What I don't want are ME1 style Mako... *treks*.

Did I miss the exploration bit in ME2? Yes. But I would rather do 100 ME2 style LINEAR N7 missions that have some shred of common sense and logic to them than drudge through 20 more Mako explorations on... RAZED friggen planets.

Modifié par Gabriel Stelinski, 13 juin 2011 - 09:13 .

[szkasypcze]

Sorry, maybe I did not make myself clear....
...I'm buying the N7 Collector's edition along with the Kinect

[Mister Mida]

In truth I find all versions of sidequests done so far not all that successful, but I have to say I prefer the UNC's. Yes, the areas were repetitive, but boohoo on that. I liked them mostly because the narrative in those gave us way more context in comparison to reading datapads in the N7. Besides that, some of the N7's were extremely boring and had absolutely no value, like the hacked YMIR and one-minute-puzzle of the shield array. The only exception I can think of was at the infected VI that killed off everyone on its station. And Overlord wasn't that interesting to me either. A break that enables us to go back to the Normandy could've helped a lot.

So, IMO, meaningful side missions that include a narrative of UNC-like proportion that on occassion include vehicle sections (no Hammerhead) and makes you actually start on site instead of on the other side of the map would be my preference. So I'm not saying I hated the open world thing of UNC. That actually gives possibilities.

EDIT: In short, I'd rather have 25 UNC's than 5 Overlord's.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 13 juin 2011 - 10:34 .

[sp0ck 06]

Icinix wrote...

[
The fact that there is such an impedending sense of doom is all the more reason to have them, its all the more reason to have a few little quirky side quests.  The serve a purpose two fold, one, remind the player that there is still a universe outside the galactic war, that breathes and turns, and all the more reason to fight to save it. Its easier to feel compassion when you make that connection yourself to a living breathing world, you can walk on it, drive on it, explore it, you'll want to save that more than thirty areas you killed a few Cerberus dudes at. And two, provides a little bit of down time to the player to stop and catch their breath, and get off the rails, so to speak.

We suspend so much else in the way of reality, story or time imposistion in games for this reason. We take away those moments of freedom, seperate from the game proper - and we lose a unique opportunity to take advantage of what the Mass Effect universe intended to be - and we may as well just have a game that starts, plays and finishes. Like a million others already there on the market.

This is a really good post that I completely agree with.  However, my original point was that wouldn't it be "better" to have 4-6 worlds in the vein of Overlord (NOT necessarily the same mechanics - just a big, multi part area with a real story and unique locales) - rather than 25 big empty copy paste worlds with reskinned textures?

The first time I landed on an uncharted world in ME1, I was blown away.  "Holy cow! I can just land on planets and drive around in this cool APC?!"  But halfway through the game, I dreaded yet another identical world with horribly jagged terrain and yet another copied base.

Maybe some of you didn't like the Hammerhead...I personally liked the platforming and thought if they had given it some more weapons it would be fine..but the point is to retain the sense of a vast universe with diverse worlds, but also have fun, engaging side quests which don't feel like a chore.

i would rather have BioWare focus on making a small amount of awesome, unique side quests rather than a large amount of generic side quests

Modifié par sp0ck 06, 13 juin 2011 - 09:17 .

[Mystik]

I didn't really like Overlord. the story didn't really pull me in and it hurt not having squad interaction. seemed more like a matter the Alliance should deal with. plus the hammerhead sucks, prefer the Mako. the terrain was the problem not the vehicle.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

The N7 missions were somehow interesting because they had different gameplay features to add to the overall Mass Effect 2 experience, although too short. Some of the UNC had interesting storyline, but boring level design/gameplay. Overlord kind of combined it.

So yeah. I'd rather have 10 Overlord like but shorter missions, that last something like 1h (so we don't detract so much from the main mission) than N7 or UNC missions.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

One thing that I'll never miss about ME1 is driving over those damn steep mountains with the Mako.  Seriously, does every planet need to be made of enormous mountains?  Also, tough luck to you if you fall down a mountain outside of the Mako.

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 13 juin 2011 - 09:25 .

[Malanek]

Some of the N7/UNC missions were pretty good and they seemed to allow the dev team to experiment a little. All I would prefer is that you had a reason to actually go there which you only had for some of them. Somewhere in the main game you should find a hint or rumour or get a transmission or whatever. The plot elements in some of them could be enhanced.

Modifié par Malanek999, 13 juin 2011 - 09:29 .

[nitrog100]

N7 missions had a way worse story than a lot of the UNC missions, but completely trumped them on environment.

[Inutaisho7996]

I would prefer a few quality missions like Overlord than a lot of short missions of varying quality from boring to sort of interesting.

[LPPrince]

nitrog100 wrote...

N7 missions had a way worse story than a lot of the UNC missions, but completely trumped them on environment.

I actually preferred the environments of UNC assignments to almost all N7 missions.

UNC's had us land on an uncharted world with a beautiful view of space and free roam on a large land mass to get to our objective. I overlooked the repeated environments because the stories were so amazing and the feeling of being in this HUUUUGE galaxy was perfect.

N7 missions felt really restricted. Pretty much on rails. Some looked beautiful, but a lot were just....there.

No wide expanse of land or space made me feel like I was on some part of Earth or something.

The stories were lame and I felt there was no reason to really do these while in ME1, I felt the UNC's were vital.

I think a major part of what made ME1 UNC's better than ME2 N7 missions is how we acquired them-

In ME1, we mostly had to speak to NPC's to get these assignments, or find them in the main missions.

You heard a man passionately express his fear that his brother may have died and wanted you to find him.

You heard Kahoku express his pain and his anger over the loss of his crew.

You heard Hackett explain why every assignment he had you do was extremely important.

etc etc

But in ME2, you just found them yourself. Oh look, here's this thing. I did it, yay. Oh look, a thank you email. Great.

I mean, REALLY?

I miss having to talk to someone to get a UNC. To hear why it was important. What they wanted me to do. Why I absolutely HAD to do it.

ME2 left me wanting MORE of what ME1 gave me. I hope ME3 delivers on this front.

[Sailears]

LPPrince wrote...
In ME1, we mostly had to speak to NPC's to get these assignments, or find them in the main missions.

You heard a man passionately express his fear that his brother may have died and wanted you to find him.

You heard Kahoku express his pain and his anger over the loss of his crew.

You heard Hackett explain why every assignment he had you do was extremely important.
<snip>

I completely agree with that.

Nicely cushioning the core of a side mission with dialogue is what causes it to have significance.

Just as simple as some conversation with dialogue choices at the beginning, perhaps something during the mission, and definitely some chat to close the mission. The choice is the important part - to turn it down, speak your mind, or whatever.

Of course this doesn't go for every side mission - the ones not included here would be things you hear on a news report, read at a terminal, stumble upon through the galaxy map, the occasional email etc... inital and/or final dialogue would of course not be relevant here.

Modifié par Curunen, 13 juin 2011 - 10:08 .

[looloolooigotsomeapples]

Absolutely, though we don't necessarily need missions of the same size, just missions that are longer and more detailed than ME2's.

Modifié par looloolooigotsomeapples, 13 juin 2011 - 10:14 .

[LPPrince]

Oh, and just so I clarify, I'd rather have 25 UNC's over 25 N7's or 5 Overlord's.