56469 réponses à ce sujet

[Pockles]

TMA LIVE wrote...
One thing I noticed on Thessia is that the floors have pockets of water. Makes me wonder if asari walk barefoot or sandals on Thessia, or wear shoes that water doesn't ruin.

I'd rather know more about asari hats.

Modifié par Pockles, 16 avril 2012 - 03:25 .

[moreeman06]

Logan Cloud wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

Logan Cloud wrote...

Oh damn, I can't remember... It's in my photo albums under my account though. In the album marked:
"Fan Art."

There's only one picture in there.

It's very cute but question how come it is tagged under Reapers!!!!, Harbinger, and Death Star.  Surely the family isn't..... oh no, no you didn't Logan, you wouldn't, you couldn't *puts hand on forehead and dramatically collapses*.   Also i think the zoo should give baby blue the giraffe, or atleast something *stretches hands out like kid in the pic* this big:D

My friend got into the picture, and tagged one of the birds as a Reaper.

Thanks though. I was really upset that it came out like it did. It looked much better on paper, but when I put it through the scanner, it lost a lot of its quality. I had to use my tablet to trace over all the lines, and I had to resize it.


Edit: Baby Blue is "Ashley" by the way!

Ok....Ok... didn't know *holds up hands in defense* no offense meant.... *aside* God some people are so touchy about their character names:P

[moreeman06]

Logan Cloud wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

Logan Cloud wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

Logan Cloud wrote...

Oh damn, I can't remember... It's in my photo albums under my account though. In the album marked:
"Fan Art."

There's only one picture in there.

It's very cute but question how come it is tagged under Reapers!!!!, Harbinger, and Death Star.  Surely the family isn't..... oh no, no you didn't Logan, you wouldn't, you couldn't *puts hand on forehead and dramatically collapses*.   Also i think the zoo should give baby blue the giraffe, or atleast something *stretches hands out like kid in the pic* this big:D

My friend got into the picture, and tagged one of the birds as a Reaper.

Thanks though. I was really upset that it came out like it did. It looked much better on paper, but when I put it through the scanner, it lost a lot of its quality. I had to use my tablet to trace over all the lines, and I had to resize it.


Edit: Baby Blue is "Ashley" by the way!

Ok....Ok... didn't know *holds up hands in defense* no offense meant.... *aside* God some people are so touchy about their character names:P

Hm? I didn't take any offense?

I read the "Baby Blue is Ashley by the way!" differently than you meant then

[TMA LIVE]

While discussing how her SB role was very downplayed in ME3, I suggested that maybe future DLC could help expand that role a bit more, but making her the DLC quest giver. Similar to Varric, where she'd get some intel, and then sends Shepard to investigate it.

However, some didn't like the idea of "More Liara". Even if it was for something small.

I know some don't like her having a lot of content already, but honestly, I don't care. A character should be given all the potential the character can get. A character shouldn't be holding back, because some might not like her that much. Because doing so is wasting potential that could have been gotten with the character.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 16 avril 2012 - 03:31 .

[Pockles]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
Tela V'asir is easily the best boss fight in the entire trilogy - she actually feels like an equal to Shepard - something Captain Crunch can only dream of - and has some good taunts for him while she's fighting him. Not to mention she's a fun, challenging fight, with the way she zips around the battlefield and is actually just as aggressive as Shepard can be. Even outside of the fight, she maintains her strength - she actually gets a shot in on Shepard so good, he really doesn't have a good response to her - when she's dying and she calls Shepard out for being a hypocrite with Cerberus, and Shepard just has a weak response. Really, she was a great character. I personally would've loved if she survived LotSB to be the rival antagonist in ME3 instead of Lucky Charms.

Tela Vasir was a cancerous growth on an otherwise fun DLC.

[Yuqi]

Logan Cloud wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Logan Cloud wrote...

There are some people in here that are gonna take offense to that though. (Not that I agree, but whatever.)

It was done by someone who loves Liara I believe.

Anyways, I do agree that stuff like Cerberus and Udina Liara probably should've gotten a heads up on. It's another reason why I don't like Sam that much, since she finds all these Cerberus locations and intel, but Liara doesn't.

Just giving you a heads up. Be prepared to fight Sunnie when she comes around haha. We've had these situations before. I don't agree with them, but oh well I guess.

Please don't start it guys.

@Moreman06
If you come I'll make sure to send a red-belly to greet you.



I the C.E outfit.

[Aristobulus500]

Pockles wrote...

Asari biotics are the result of genetic engineering. They didn't figure out mathematics and agriculture on their own, the protheans did that for them. They didn't even have to leave their homeworld to figure out FTL because of the beacon. Granted all spacefaring races built their civilizations around scavenged prothean technology, but asari in particular got where they are now because aliens meddled with them in their stone age. It makes sense that many asari are smug because they don't know this and think that they're superior, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Most of what you say is true, I admit. However, I'm going to point out it doesn't really defeat anything I said. Asari are naturally better at biotics. That this is due to Prothean genetic engineering doesn't change that they are. Personally, I'd still say there was something to the Asari that liberally peppering their planet with Eezo didn't horrifically poison them or something, but actually came out with positive effects. But that's just a theory with little to back it up.

However! I do want to specifically pick out one thing you said.

They didn't even have to leave their homeworld to figure out FTL because of the beacon.

Now, this is a bit of a mistake I've seen other people make, too. I don't begrudge you for making this - I think ultimately, this all stems from the entire Thessia/Asari segment being so rushed and relatively poorly handled. The ramifications of what that beacon really means for the Asari is glossed over because WHOOPS gotta rush after Cerberus then WHOOPS gotta stop the reapers then spin the color wheel. It's just not given enough time to really flesh itself out.

So what do I mean? Why am I taking issue with this? Well...think about it. It's a Prothean Beacon. There's actually conflicts with it no matter how you address it.

The way I see it, it's just flawed. The Asari either can entirely understand and read the Prothean beacon, or they can't. If they can, there's a whole nest of questions and issues that are raised - I'll cover a few. If they can read it...why didn't they know about the Reapers? If the Beacon just didn't mention the Reapers, why would the Protheans not mention the Reapers? If they can fully understand the beacon, then this also has serious implications for Shepard and the player - because it means Shepard isn't special at all, really. Throughout the games it's hammered home that one of the things that makes Shepard so special and unique is that he can understand Prothean relics - even on Eden Prime v2 when you recruit Javik, only Shepard can understand the Prothean videos, and he understands them perfectly. Even Liara doesn't get a thing out of them.

Yet, this shouldn't follow, if the Asari are actually capable of understanding Prothean tech. Why did they need Shepard? Why didn't they just have an Asari read the beacon on Eden Prime, and elsewhere, and find out about the Reapers?

So, okay, maybe they couldn't fully understand the beacon, so Shepard is still special because he ends up being the only one fully able to decipher it. Let's go with that the Asari could only study the very basics of the beacon, same as any other race...well then, in this case, they really didn't get such a huge boost in technology from it after all. They just had it sooner, because it was on their planet instead of, say, a neighboring planet like how humanity had to reach Mars to study prothean tech.

But that's just a head start, that's all. It certainly would not be continuously keeping them ahead of other races in technology all the way into the modern era. Honestly, I think this version makes more sense even because the Asari really do not seem to be that much more technology advanced than the other races - they rely heavily on their diplomacy and mediating skills so that they don't have have to the most advanced weaponry and military tech...but at any rate, it certainly seems like the Turians and maybe even Salarians simply out-tech them. Though, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Asari simply had better tech when it came to pure quality of life tech, but that doesn't translate into military strength or anything.

In the end I just think the whole Beacon issue was poorly written and poorly handled, and like much of Thessia and the Asari, really needed more time devoted to it than a single mission. The root of most of the flaws surrounding Liara, Thessia, and the beacon stem from there just not being enough gametime devoted to them.

Speaking of how Liara's SB role was handled, anyone found it weird
how the Barla Von thing was handled? Liara tells you to talk to him, and
then he tells you the "Shadow Broker" want's you to do this. And I'm
like "Why didn't Liara just tell me on the Normandy or something?"

Honestly, I think this ties into what I was saying above - Liara's role as the Shadow Broker was just not properly handled, again probably a consequence of much of the game being rushed. They really want you to believe she's great at her job...and at times she does show it! Then at other times she doesn't. You really get sent mixed signals, and it's certainly true that they could've done more with this whole thing.

[Aristobulus500]

TMA LIVE wrote...
:picture:
One thing I noticed on Thessia is that the floors have pockets of water. Makes me wonder if asari walk barefoot or sandals on Thessia, or wear shoes that water doesn't ruin.

What's the code to thumbnail an image, by the way, so I don't have to entirely delete it from a post, or have it display in full size? I'll edit this post for a thumbnail if I ever figure out how.

Anyway, that picture..reminds me of a ****in' edit my boss friend Theta made for me. Loves me a chance to pimp it out any real opportunity I get...



I love your idea about dlc that simply expands Liara as a character, makes her a quest giver and such. A DLC that expands characters in general would be a great idea, of course I'm going to favor ones that focus on Liara.

But it's always been the characters as the reason I have played ME, so things that flesh them out further and focus on them are what I really want more than anything else - and it's the lack of a character focus that I find makes the ending bad more than anything else...but I really don't want to start up ending chat. I really don't like ending chat.

Modifié par Aristobulus500, 16 avril 2012 - 03:44 .

[moreeman06]

Yuqi wrote...

Logan Cloud wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Logan Cloud wrote...

There are some people in here that are gonna take offense to that though. (Not that I agree, but whatever.)

It was done by someone who loves Liara I believe.

Anyways, I do agree that stuff like Cerberus and Udina Liara probably should've gotten a heads up on. It's another reason why I don't like Sam that much, since she finds all these Cerberus locations and intel, but Liara doesn't.

Just giving you a heads up. Be prepared to fight Sunnie when she comes around haha. We've had these situations before. I don't agree with them, but oh well I guess.

Please don't start it guys.

@Moreman06
If you come I'll make sure to send a red-belly to greet you.



I the C.E outfit.

the C.E. outfit is nice although there was a pic that somebody posted with it modded dif. colors (it was more Blue on black than red) that i think suits her skin color better.  I've actually switched from using her LOTSB and Phanotm to using her C.E. outfit the most.  

And thanks Yuqi for not promising me the most deadly welcome i could get from going there. 

[Sunnie]

Logan Cloud wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Logan Cloud wrote...

There are some people in here that are gonna take offense to that though. (Not that I agree, but whatever.)

It was done by someone who loves Liara I believe.

Anyways, I do agree that stuff like Cerberus and Udina Liara probably should've gotten a heads up on. It's another reason why I don't like Sam that much, since she finds all these Cerberus locations and intel, but Liara doesn't.

Just giving you a heads up. Be prepared to fight Sunnie when she comes around haha. We've had these situations before. I don't agree with them, but oh well I guess.

lol!
*puts on boxing gloves*

[Sunnie]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Logan Cloud wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Logan Cloud wrote...

There are some people in here that are gonna take offense to that though. (Not that I agree, but whatever.)

It was done by someone who loves Liara I believe.

Anyways, I do agree that stuff like Cerberus and Udina Liara probably should've gotten a heads up on. It's another reason why I don't like Sam that much, since she finds all these Cerberus locations and intel, but Liara doesn't.

Just giving you a heads up. Be prepared to fight Sunnie when she comes around haha. We've had these situations before. I don't agree with them, but oh well I guess.

Yeah, yeah. I know.

Speaking of how Liara's SB role was handled, anyone found it weird how the Barla Von thing was handled? Liara tells you to talk to him, and then he tells you the "Shadow Broker" want's you to do this. And I'm like "Why didn't Liara just tell me on the Normandy or something?"

Bad writing, nothing more.

[Sunnie]

Ok, is this the part where I'm supposed to start a fight over, something?

[Sunnie]

Logan Cloud wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...

Ok, is this the part where I'm supposed to start a fight over, something?

You can if you really want to.

Just not me though.. I can't take a punch very well.

lol
OK! here we go!

On second thought.. *throws gloves on floor* ..Theres nothing to fight over. Sorry, you don't get your wish this time! /uploads_user/1070000/1069890/43395.gif

[recentio]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Heehee, yes. Words are a delight; though, some messages are better expressed non-verbally with imagery, sound, or body language.

*snip*

When I say that the Liara/Shep romance is very "equal" and not at all just Shepard taking advantage of the other, I'm most specifically going to be thinking of the LotSB romance and ME3 romance. Liara and Shepard actually talking about themselves and where they stood with eachother, as adults, was just something you never see. I felt it was a very mature way to handle a videogame romance, it took itself seriously when it needed to - yet still allowed for some fun chemistry and dialogue during the actual gameplay segments. I know a lot of that dialogue is the same even if you didn't romance her, but damned if it doesn't really fit a Liara-loyal Shep.

It wasn't just talk, too. They really acted like they cared for eachother, and it was seriously amazing the way they managed to show emotion. As well...just some amazing visuals. Look at the scene after you defeat the shadow broker, where Liara helps Shep up and they kiss...as the light explodes behind them illuminating them. It's...quite something.

But kissing is something you even see in teenage level romances of say, Final Fantasy.

LOL. It's refreshing to see FF referred to as teen programming. Though, I feel it has descended further to the tween audience. When I was a teenager, I played Final Fantasy VI...a level of maturity lost forever to Squee, it would seem. 

EDIT: I actually missed that paragon interrupt after the quick hug-kiss after beating the Shadow Broker, andsuspecting I missed something worthwhile, I reset and refought the SB so I could catch the interrupt the second time around. Totally worth it for that legendary kiss.

So I give the romance line credit for implying that they go further, too, aboard the Normandy (of course this applies to ME1/ME3 as well but I'm focusing on LotSB for the moment) and I give it triple credit for managing to make it tasteful and not purely fanservice...though if I were to specifically mention LotSB, like all of the romances, it was rather too tame. The dialogue on the Normandy though, was enough. Full of emotion and just seeing them discuss how they felt in earnest - I have to point out that it's one of the rare times Shepard drops the gung ho leader bravado and really lets his emotions come through, and he does it for Liara. It's very powerful to see them really respecting eachother like that.

It was nice to have a realistic conversation where Shep confides in Liara because they are so close.

The relationship does seem to shine through even in an unromanced Liara in LotSB. I was so sure Shepard would be a single hero, but as the story played out, she convinced me that I was mistaken.

Me: "Okay, Shep you're flying solo as an infiltrator."
Shep: "Sounds like a plan. I'm on it."
<after much BAMF cloaked sniping, LotSB begins>
Shep: "About that 'flying solo' business...see that girl there?"
Me: "The one you keep chasing and yelling about? Yeah."
Shep: "She's pretty d*** gorgeous and amazing."
Me: "...well, I suppose since you feel that strongly... Yeah, you are pretty hot together."
Shep: "Yes, we are."

But I found LotSB amazing even aside from all the interactions with Liara - personally, I loved the chance to really get to explore more of an Asari city. I love Asari architecture and design, and even before LotSB I would always take a moment to just enjoy the skyline of Ilium. There's just something really sleek, yet still alien looking, about their designs. So exploring Hotel Azure was a great chance to just get to see more of an Asari city, and gameplay wise it's still further impressive.

Tela V'asir is easily the best boss fight in the entire trilogy - she actually feels like an equal to Shepard - something Captain Crunch can only dream of - and has some good taunts for him while she's fighting him. Not to mention she's a fun, challenging fight, with the way she zips around the battlefield and is actually just as aggressive as Shepard can be. Even outside of the fight, she maintains her strength - she actually gets a shot in on Shepard so good, he really doesn't have a good response to her - when she's dying and she calls Shepard out for being a hypocrite with Cerberus, and Shepard just has a weak response. Really, she was a great character. I personally would've loved if she survived LotSB to be the rival antagonist in ME3 instead of Lucky Charms.

I also want to mention just how well designed Hagalaz was from a gameplay perspective - it was perfectly tailored to Liara and making great use of her biotics. So much fun to watch her lift people into the air and send them flying away from the ship, to be struck by lightning and distintegrated.

The level design of LotSB was one of it's triumphs. The pacing of conflict/resolution style as it moved from investigation to combat to conversation to pursuit to humorous asides to infiltration to confrontation, etc. was perfect. Never a dull moment. Tuchanka is the only ME mission I would rank higher.

I agree that the sets were breathtaking and that Vasir was an excellent character. Hagalaz and Illium were visually wonderful. And, Vasir posed a very valid moral challenge to Shepard as the two Spectres fought to the death.

But I have to ask, if you haven't played through ME1, do you plan to, now that you have an investment in Liara? Just to see the beginnings? As well, I'm curious, what were your thoughts on Asari initially, and has your fondness for Liara changed how you feel towards the Asari? I just think it's interesting to see how the primary characters can color peoples dispositions toward their race as a whole.

I do. I'm rather busy with grad school atm, though, and the combat system is...well...I will have to find a way to deal when the day comes. I have watched some of it on YouTube and spoiled it for myself, unfortunately.

I don't judge much, prefering to observe; people are way too complicated for the likes of me to figure out with my weak assumptions. So I had no ideas about the Asari. The dancers in Afterlife were the first I saw, and they were quite visually appealing. Then Shep talked with Aria, and I was impressed to meet a female mob leader. Aria's power and non-succubus character was an interesting contrast to the objectification of Asari within her own club. That told me they were a people with some depth to the ideas behind them. Samara and Morinth added quite a few layers with their story, and Liara herself is a full-fledged individual. I never knew about melding or Asari cultural views on relationships and mortality until watching YouTube vids of ME1, though.

So, I guess, I didn't have any feelings about the Asari, and as layers were added I found them to be a well-developed, interesting culture as both individuals and as a society.

Modifié par recentio, 16 avril 2012 - 04:21 .

[speedy111280]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Pockles wrote...

Asari biotics are the result of genetic engineering. They didn't figure out mathematics and agriculture on their own, the protheans did that for them. They didn't even have to leave their homeworld to figure out FTL because of the beacon. Granted all spacefaring races built their civilizations around scavenged prothean technology, but asari in particular got where they are now because aliens meddled with them in their stone age. It makes sense that many asari are smug because they don't know this and think that they're superior, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Most of what you say is true, I admit. However, I'm going to point out it doesn't really defeat anything I said. Asari are naturally better at biotics. That this is due to Prothean genetic engineering doesn't change that they are. Personally, I'd still say there was something to the Asari that liberally peppering their planet with Eezo didn't horrifically poison them or something, but actually came out with positive effects. But that's just a theory with little to back it up.

However! I do want to specifically pick out one thing you said.

They didn't even have to leave their homeworld to figure out FTL because of the beacon.

Now, this is a bit of a mistake I've seen other people make, too. I don't begrudge you for making this - I think ultimately, this all stems from the entire Thessia/Asari segment being so rushed and relatively poorly handled. The ramifications of what that beacon really means for the Asari is glossed over because WHOOPS gotta rush after Cerberus then WHOOPS gotta stop the reapers then spin the color wheel. It's just not given enough time to really flesh itself out.

So what do I mean? Why am I taking issue with this? Well...think about it. It's a Prothean Beacon. There's actually conflicts with it no matter how you address it.

The way I see it, it's just flawed. The Asari either can entirely understand and read the Prothean beacon, or they can't. If they can, there's a whole nest of questions and issues that are raised - I'll cover a few. If they can read it...why didn't they know about the Reapers? If the Beacon just didn't mention the Reapers, why would the Protheans not mention the Reapers? If they can fully understand the beacon, then this also has serious implications for Shepard and the player - because it means Shepard isn't special at all, really. Throughout the games it's hammered home that one of the things that makes Shepard so special and unique is that he can understand Prothean relics - even on Eden Prime v2 when you recruit Javik, only Shepard can understand the Prothean videos, and he understands them perfectly. Even Liara doesn't get a thing out of them.

Yet, this shouldn't follow, if the Asari are actually capable of understanding Prothean tech. Why did they need Shepard? Why didn't they just have an Asari read the beacon on Eden Prime, and elsewhere, and find out about the Reapers?

So, okay, maybe they couldn't fully understand the beacon, so Shepard is still special because he ends up being the only one fully able to decipher it. Let's go with that the Asari could only study the very basics of the beacon, same as any other race...well then, in this case, they really didn't get such a huge boost in technology from it after all. They just had it sooner, because it was on their planet instead of, say, a neighboring planet like how humanity had to reach Mars to study prothean tech.

But that's just a head start, that's all. It certainly would not be continuously keeping them ahead of other races in technology all the way into the modern era. Honestly, I think this version makes more sense even because the Asari really do not seem to be that much more technology advanced than the other races - they rely heavily on their diplomacy and mediating skills so that they don't have have to the most advanced weaponry and military tech...but at any rate, it certainly seems like the Turians and maybe even Salarians simply out-tech them. Though, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Asari simply had better tech when it came to pure quality of life tech, but that doesn't translate into military strength or anything.

In the end I just think the whole Beacon issue was poorly written and poorly handled, and like much of Thessia and the Asari, really needed more time devoted to it than a single mission. The root of most of the flaws surrounding Liara, Thessia, and the beacon stem from there just not being enough gametime devoted to them.

I agree with you. It's actually been bugging me to see people hating on the Asari for the whole beacon in the Temple thing and using it as justification for calling them a lazy race who used the Prothean knowledge in the beacon to get all their technological advancement and that's why they were the first to reach the Citadel and are the most advanced. It's an illogical argument even with the whole Thessia plotline being rushed because it is stated more than once in the trilogy that Shepard is the only one alive capable of understanding the Prothean language (written or spoken) because of the beacons Shepard interacted with in ME1 and the Cipher, it's unlikely that even Shiala could truly understand the beacon on Thessia because that first beacon on Eden Prime changed Shepard's brain activity. The Asari could no more understand them than the humans could when they discovered the Archives on Mars, they could study the images and blueprints and then develop their tech with Prothean tech blueprints as a starting point but it would be a bit different since Asari are not Protheans. Since the Asari can't speak Prothean they would have used the beacon exactly as the other races used their found Prothean tech to further their technological development which makes them no better or worse than any other race since their is no way they would have been able to figure out the warning about the Reapers if it was even a part of their beacon since the Protheans left all the Council races alone when the Reapers attacked hoping the Reapers would leave them  for the next cycle.

[Aristobulus500]

If you ever get around to playing ME1, Recentio, I'd love to hear about it. The gameplay is certainly dated, so don't feel any shame about setting it to casual or modding it to give yourself god armor and such like that, I love it for the story and characters, not the gameplay.

I will mention though, that when you get around to it, you should try an Adept in ME1. Adept has never been more powerful than it was in ME1, it is absolutely hilarious how broken they are, ESPECIALLY if you go Adept Shepard with Liara as a squadmate. Once you both get some levels, you will just dominate the entire game. It will feel like you're playing Garry's Mod.

I forgot to mention this, about LotSB - a really nice touch, I felt, that I don't see mentioned a lot - was just the scene where you're exploring Liara's apartment. The ambiance in there was amazing - the rain outside and everything, if it weren't such a tense "oh god is she okay" scene it could've been relaxing.

For what it was, it was really cool to get a small glimpse at just normal life on an alien planet, in an alien city. You spend so much of the game worrying about galaxy spanning threats you never really get a chance to see a smaller picture.

I personally would've liked it if, after beating LotSB, Liara gave you her old apartment, just like you got a place from Pinnacle Station. Although I'm a sap that would've liked it if Shep/Liara really got to get a place of their own at any point in the series. Hell, I would've settled for getting to really visit places Liara grew up at in Thessia, but things are a bit too war-torn to allow that...

Modifié par Aristobulus500, 16 avril 2012 - 04:32 .

[Pockles]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
Most of what you say is true, I admit. However, I'm going to point out it doesn't really defeat anything I said. Asari are naturally better at biotics. That this is due to Prothean genetic engineering doesn't change that they are.

If it wasn't for the protheans, they wouldn't be. That means they aren't naturally superior in this instance. Their advantage is artificial.

Aristobulus500 wrote...
Personally, I'd still say there was something to the Asari that liberally peppering their planet with Eezo didn't horrifically poison them or something, but actually came out with positive effects. But that's just a theory with little to back it up.

It's not really special. Organic species will eventually develop a resistance and biotic aptitude when exposed to eezo. I direct you to Eingana. http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Eingana

Aristobulus500 wrote...
However! I do want to specifically pick out one thing you said.

Pockles wrote...
They didn't even have to leave their homeworld to figure out FTL because of the beacon.

Now, this is a bit of a mistake I've seen other people make, too. I don't begrudge you for making this - I think ultimately, this all stems from the entire Thessia/Asari segment being so rushed and relatively poorly handled. The ramifications of what that beacon really means for the Asari is glossed over because WHOOPS gotta rush after Cerberus then WHOOPS gotta stop the reapers then spin the color wheel. It's just not given enough time to really flesh itself out.

So what do I mean? Why am I taking issue with this? Well...think about it. It's a Prothean Beacon. There's actually conflicts with it no matter how you address it.

The way I see it, it's just flawed. The Asari either can entirely understand and read the Prothean beacon, or they can't. If they can, there's a whole nest of questions and issues that are raised - I'll cover a few. If they can read it...why didn't they know about the Reapers? If the Beacon just didn't mention the Reapers, why would the Protheans not mention the Reapers? If they can fully understand the beacon, then this also has serious implications for Shepard and the player - because it means Shepard isn't special at all, really. Throughout the games it's hammered home that one of the things that makes Shepard so special and unique is that he can understand Prothean relics - even on Eden Prime v2 when you recruit Javik, only Shepard can understand the Prothean videos, and he understands them perfectly. Even Liara doesn't get a thing out of them.

Yet, this shouldn't follow, if the Asari are actually capable of understanding Prothean tech. Why did they need Shepard? Why didn't they just have an Asari read the beacon on Eden Prime, and elsewhere, and find out about the Reapers?

So, okay, maybe they couldn't fully understand the beacon, so Shepard is still special because he ends up being the only one fully able to decipher it. Let's go with that the Asari could only study the very basics of the beacon, same as any other race...well then, in this case, they really didn't get such a huge boost in technology from it after all. They just had it sooner, because it was on their planet instead of, say, a neighboring planet like how humanity had to reach Mars to study prothean tech.

But that's just a head start, that's all. It certainly would not be continuously keeping them ahead of other races in technology all the way into the modern era. Honestly, I think this version makes more sense even because the Asari really do not seem to be that much more technology advanced than the other races - they rely heavily on their diplomacy and mediating skills so that they don't have have to the most advanced weaponry and military tech...but at any rate, it certainly seems like the Turians and maybe even Salarians simply out-tech them. Though, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Asari simply had better tech when it came to pure quality of life tech, but that doesn't translate into military strength or anything.

It's established that prothean can be at least partially translated. It's what Liara was doing while she was in the Mars Archive. It's a poor substitute for someone with the Cipher, but they make do. You're right about the reapers, though. It's a significant plot hole.

Also, it's implied that the asari are controlling the flow of information they receive from the beacon, pacing themselves so that they are capable of making major scientific breakthroughs consistently over long intervals of time. This way, they remain on the bleeding edge of technological advancement and gain an advantage over the other races.

Modifié par Pockles, 16 avril 2012 - 04:47 .

[recentio]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

If you ever get around to playing ME1, Recentio, I'd love to hear about it. The gameplay is certainly dated, so don't feel any shame about setting it to casual or modding it to give yourself god armor and such like that, I love it for the story and characters, not the gameplay.

I will mention though, that when you get around to it, you should try an Adept in ME1. Adept has never been more powerful than it was in ME1, it is absolutely hilarious how broken they are, ESPECIALLY if you go Adept Shepard with Liara as a squadmate. Once you both get some levels, you will just dominate the entire game. It will feel like you're playing Garry's Mod.

I forgot to mention this, about LotSB - a really nice touch, I felt, that I don't see mentioned a lot - was just the scene where you're exploring Liara's apartment. The ambiance in there was amazing - the rain outside and everything, if it weren't such a tense "oh god is she okay" scene it could've been relaxing.

For what it was, it was really cool to get a small glimpse at just normal life on an alien planet, in an alien city. You spend so much of the game worrying about galaxy spanning threats you never really get a chance to see a smaller picture.

I personally would've liked it if, after beating LotSB, Liara gave you her old apartment, just like you got a place from Pinnacle Station. Although I'm a sap that would've liked it if Shep/Liara really got to get a place of their own at any point in the series. Hell, I would've settled for getting to really visit places Liara grew up at in Thessia, but things are a bit too war-torn to allow that...

I'll try to remember to drop you a line when I play ME1, and we can chat about it. Maybe a "pure biotics" game where I forbid Shepard from shooting a gun would make it uniquely challenging...

I meant to say something about that apartment scene. It was pleasantly understated and atmospheric with the rain and the crime scene and the generally dark lighting of the set. Not knowing much about Liara's character, when I first saw her apartment with a doctoral diploma and artifacts on display and just classy decor overall, I was impresed. There's a woman who's worth visiting at her apartment and getting to know. Smart is sexy. And in Liara's case, sexy is sexy as well.  LotSB really stacked the deck against my ability to resist.

EDIT: My first top! ...in this thread. 

Modifié par recentio, 16 avril 2012 - 04:49 .

[Pockles]

How is Vasir's "look in the mirror" argument valid? She calls out Shepard for working with a terrorist organization, but look at what she's done. She bombed an entire office building, shot her way through a hotel, and took a helpless waitress hostage to save her own skin. Shepard can justify his/her involvement with Cerberus. The collectors are abducting tens of thousands of colonists and grinding them into paste, and Cerberus are the only people who aren't shrugging their shoulders and saying it's not their job to protect them. Can Vasir say the same?