56469 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

FRANCESCO84Inn wrote...

my new screenshot

Liara trying to make herself comfortable in her new armor!

"EDIT"

Who else wants to see a fanart with  LS Bastilla, Morrigan and Liara in a bar having drinks?

Modifié par Lizardviking, 17 avril 2012 - 04:51 .

[CDHarrisUSF]

SuperClutch16 wrote...

This song right here, just sums up everything. Everyone should give it a listen...Trust me

The lyrics don't sound like a reunion song. It's longing for someone who isn't there. It's more Shepard's current situation than when they finally get reunited.

Etta James - At Last

At last my love has come along
My lonely days are over
And life is like a song
At last the skies above are blue
And my heart was wrapped up in clover
The night I looked at you
I found a dream that I can speak to
A dream that I could call my own
I found a thrill to press my cheek to
A thrill that I have never known
You smiled, and then the spell was cast
And here we are in heaven
And you are mine at last

Snow Patrol - Chasing Cars

...
I don't quite know
How to say
How I feel

Those three words
Are said too much
They're not enough
...
If I lay here
If I just lay here
Would you lie with me
and just forget the world?

Forget what we're told
Before we get too old
Show me a garden
that's bursting into life

All that I am
All that I ever was
Is here in your perfect eyes,
they're all I can see

I don't know where
Confused about how as well
Just know that these things
will never change for us at all
...

The Calling - Wherever You Will Go works on an obvious surface level of literally going where she goes (following her to this Gilligan's Planet)... but also because of the fact that Liara is going to outlive Shepard and maybe even how Shepard was brought back from the dead:

So lately, been wondering
Who will be there to take my place
When I'm gone you'll need love
To light the shadows on your face
...
If I could, then I would
I'll go wherever you will go
Way up high or down low
I'll go wherever you will go

And maybe, I'll find out
A way to make it back someday
To watch you, to guide you
Through the darkest of your days

If a great wave shall fall
And fall upon us all
Well then I hope there's someone out there
Who can bring me back to you
...
I know now, just quite how
My life and love might still go on
In your heart, in your mind
I'll stay with you for all of time

Aerosmith - I Don't Want to Miss a Thing

...
I dont want to miss one smile
I dont want to miss one kiss
I just want to be with you
Right here with you, just like this
I just want to hold you close
Feel your heart so close to mine
And just stay here in this moment
For all the rest of time
...

[Aristobulus500]

Dude on Fire wrote...
about the ending/Shepard's forced sacrifice

I think I'm going to touch on this issue you raised, now. I've talked about why the ending is a failure because it focuses on abstract concepts instead of characters, in a character driven story - but you bring up another point.

Shepard is forced to die. This is a flaw - even were the rest of the ending great, and it didn't ruin the galactic community and it gave you adequate closure on the rest of your squad, forcing Shepard to die no matter what choices you made or how you played, is a flaw I can not accept.

So why is this? Certainly everyone has heard it said that if you just want a happy ending like this, you're a child. You don't understand the themes of sacrifice throughout the games. I vehemently disagree, despite that I understand very well the sacrifice they are pointing to.

Here's the thing - sacrifice is only one theme of many. There is some sacrifice, but it's entirely possible to play a perfectionist Shepard that barely sacrifices anything, and really the truth is, for a Shepard that is a perfectionist Paragon, look at what he does - he saves the Rachni, he saves the DA securing galactic harmony, he goes through a mission literally called the Suicide Mission and nobody dies. He unites the Krogan with the Turians/Salarians, and he unites the Geth/Quarians. What is the theme for this Shepard? Certainly not sacrifice, though there is some sacrifice - after all, even for this Shepard, someone dies on Vermire. Mordin dies. Thane dies. Legion dies. But that is not the main theme - the main theme is rather one of self determination, going against all odds to do the impossible through sheer strength of will. That Shepard is constantly doing things people say is impossible and not even worth trying, that it's against the very basic nature of things - and surviving! And having other people survive, too!

It is entirely out of place and instead I'd argue that people who do think Shepard should always die - I think it is in fact, these people that do not have a full grasp on the story or the character of Shepard.

Saying that this Shepard should be forced to die because there are some themes of sacrifice - it is almost exactly like saying that Luke Skywalker should have had to die in Star Wars. After all, why not? The same argument applies. There was certainly sacrifice in Star Wars. Luke's adoptive parents must be sacrificed before he even goes on the journey, Luke loses a hand, an entire planet is destroyed, and Obi-Wan sacrifices himself to become one with the Force and allow Luke and co. to escape the Death Star. Yet that's not enough - very few people would argue that Star Wars is actually a heroic tragedy that would be improved by Luke dying, and that his survival cheapened the experience - yet people want to turn around and say that a similar Shepard should? It's hypocritical.

There's another point these people will often make - Shepard is a Jesus figure, they say, writing conventions demand he die! That's total bull****. Writing a story by the numbers and doing things just because x convention does things, is a recipe for disaster, especially if you fail to understand why those conventions and exist and how to use them properly. You can make some comparisons to Jesus with Shepard, sure, but it's such an overdone cliche it's one of the easiest marks of a hack writer. "Hm, I want to make my story deep. I know! My main character is Jesus. I have made an art!" It doesn't work that way at all, and it's become so overdone and predictable, that there were people easily calling that Shepard would die years ago. Because look around, all the "deep" games and stories tend to want to end with offing the main character, because that's how you be an art and deep, right? It really is writing by numbers without thinking about what makes sense for your story and how things should connect and what should logically happen. Further, Shepard is such a character that constantly subverts these very ideas that are assumed to be the nature of things - it would be very much in character for Shepard to be a Jesus figure, but then not die. Because he's Commander Shepard, and he doesn't care what you say has to happen.

There is one final comparison I'd like to make - think about Mordin. A very much beloved character. He has to die. Why is this okay, yet Shepard isn't? This comes back to more writing conventions. You see, Mordin is a tragic hero character. He actually is - the key thing here is Mordin has a tragic flaw - he helped create the Genophage. This is central to his character and important to everything he does throughout the trilogy - and in the end, he wraps up his arc and gains redemption for his flaw by sacrificing himself to fix the Genophage. It's a nice, complete circle. It's heroic and it also feels like his death has meaning, and it's in character and reasonable, too.

The problem is Shepard, though, does not have a tragic flaw. He's a blank slate, Shepard has no real reason to sacrifice himself, and there's nothing being wrapped up and resolved by his death. His death is just a meaningless footnoted requirement of the ending.

However, I have to bring this all around to a major point - I would not say that Shepard should never die. Certainly, just as I have used the example of a perfect Shepard - what of a Shepard who was less perfect? Who was more renegade, and did have people die on the suicide mission - who didn't cure the genophage and sacrificed the Krogan and Wrex, who also failed to unite the Geth and Quarians, sacrificing one of them entirely? Well, yes, this Shepard has a tragic flaw, and for such a Shepard I would be okay with it being impossible for him to survive, because for this Shepard, you can argue that sacrifice is the theme of the trilogy.

So the major point tying all of this together, then, is player choice and agency. This is why forcing Shepard into a set road, no matter how you played, is bad. Forcing Shepard to live no matter how you played is just as awkward as forcing him to die no matter what, because it ignores the player. It's also why the Suicide Mission is considered by most to be so well done - it seemed to say your choices mattered. And they did! Based on how you had played throughout the game, what choices you had made, who you had made loyal - people could die before you even started the real mission. And things could go so badly that Shepard himself dies and you basically lose. Or, you could do things perfectly and no one at all dies. Or some area in between! It really had something for everyone, because it paid attention to your choices.

This is something the end of ME3 really needed to do, and hopefully will do, once the DLC comes out.

[coles4971]

jlb524 wrote...

*posts fan art for the day*



source

*leaves*

Damn, look at all that attention to detail on the armour. Seriously, wow.

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

@Aristobulus500, sorry, but Mass Effect is role game, i need the power the possibility to save Shepard, this not is a Film or normal game, this game is different, why you give me in the Series all power to save many charecter, to save my squad member or li, and why you not consider the choice,

i need have my personal ending, i need the anding made by my choice, i need save Shepard, i not like sacrifice my Shepard,

yeah Shepard can save or not save the krogan by the cure of geno****e, Shepard can save or kill Wrex, or in ME2 Shepard can die or can kill all squad member,

all Quarian can die by the Geth, and Tali can come to kill himself,

so in the series Shepard its able to change the history, why not is free to save himself ?

i need save Sheaprd, i need watch Shepard become Captain or Admiral,

i need Shepard whit Liara.

dem.

[AlexMBrennan]

Adas18 wrote...
[ img ]webkit-fake-url://288742F0-9287-44A4-B008-7FCD504CE7E3/imagejpeg[ /img ]

Could you perhaps consider posting a real URL?

[TheMarshal]

@Aristobulus - Well put. Forcing Shepard to live at the end of the story isn't much better than forcing Shepard to die. I'd be perfectly happy if one of the outcomes was death, but I want it to have been because I chose it. Not because some godchild sets up a false choice and forces me to choose the color of my demise.

[Zwei133]

FRANCESCO84Inn wrote...

@Aristobulus500, sorry, but Mass Effect is role game, i need the power the possibility to save Shepard, this not is a Film or normal game, this game is different, why you give me in the Series all power to save many charecter, to save my squad member or li, and why you not consider the choice,

i need have my personal ending, i need the anding made by my choice, i need save Shepard, i not like sacrifice my Shepard,

yeah Shepard can save or not save the krogan by the cure of geno****e, Shepard can save or kill Wrex, or in ME2 Shepard can die or can kill all squad member,

all Quarian can die by the Geth, and Tali can come to kill himself,

so in the series Shepard its able to change the history, why not is free to save himself ?

i need save Sheaprd, i need watch Shepard become Captain or Admiral,

i need Shepard whit Liara.

dem.

Personally.  I want my femshep to simply disappear with Liara.  The galaxy has asked way too much of Shepard, and she delivered.  She has earned the right to disappear among the stars as Liara suggested just before the Cerberus base and enjoy peace for once.  Let the galaxy think she is dead.

I would even accept some sort of medal ceremony with the Council before retiring and dropping off the grid.  She would of course keep in touch with her friends, and maybe occasionally advise the Alliance/Council if they need it, but her days of fighting her over.  She has father/motherhood to focus on, haha.

[Erenbe]

TheMarshal wrote...

@Aristobulus - Well put. Forcing Shepard to live at the end of the story isn't much better than forcing Shepard to die. I'd be perfectly happy if one of the outcomes was death, but I want it to have been because I chose it. Not because some godchild sets up a false choice and forces me to choose the color of my demise.

Yep. I agree. The choices you had in ME2 were great IMHO. You could die, you could live...depending on your choices and preparations! But apparently that wasn't artsy enough for the end of a trilogy! <_<

[DarkCloudd]

Deep conversations in this thread today but I agree with pretty much everything said. I just really hope the writers at Bioware take our ideas seriously.

[bennyjammin79]

[The Lightspeaker]

hoodie_gypsy wrote...

And I am (as others have stated) optimistic about the endings. For all the crazy PR twists we've seen, I really think the fans have been heard. And I know I'm probably stepping in it by saying this ... but they'd be hard pressed to make it worse. What I mean is, they would have to actively *try* to make it worse, and I don't see that happening from people who breathed life into the characters that we love.

I'm optimistic in a very pragmatic way. My logic is as follows:
- They're a company who want to make money.
- They can potentially make a lot of money from paid-for DLC for ME3.
- They won't get nearly as much money for future DLC if the ending stays bad, because many people just flat out won't be bothered buying it.
- The fact they're doing anything at all means they're committed to doing SOMETHING which is going to cost money. Therefore they might as well try to make that something GOOD in order to improve future DLC sales.

Aristobulus500 wrote...

So the major point tying all of this together, then, is player choice and agency.
This is why forcing Shepard into a set road, no matter how you played,
is bad. Forcing Shepard to live no matter how you played is just as
awkward as forcing him to die no matter what, because it ignores the
player.

I actually blogged about something similar to this a little while back. Here:
http://social.biowar...07/blog/212190/

In summary: Shepard's attitude in the final scene of just submitting to fate and dying is completely nonsensical and easily the worst plothole in the ending to me. My Shepard wouldn't choose red, green or blue. She'd say "screw you" and just sit there in defiance. She makes her own path, not being force into it by some cyber-brat.

Modifié par The Lightspeaker, 17 avril 2012 - 06:30 .

[jlb524]

Zwei133 wrote...

Personally.  I want my femshep to simply disappear with Liara.  The galaxy has asked way too much of Shepard, and she delivered.  She has earned the right to disappear among the stars as Liara suggested just before the Cerberus base and enjoy peace for once.  Let the galaxy think she is dead.

Sometimes I like to 'speculate' that Shepard/Liara really did say 'screw it' and disappear the night before the attack on the Cerberus base (that never really happened).  They secretly found a nice little tropical planet and Shepard accidently ate some unidentified fun mushrooms and hallucinated everything that happened during the ending including the attack on the Cerberus base.

I think Garrus or Wrex or Samara or someone defeated the Reapers...whatevs.

I should tweet Jessica Merizan and ask her if that's valid speculation for the ending.

Modifié par jlb524, 17 avril 2012 - 06:32 .

[adneate]

jlb524 wrote...
I should tweet Jessica Merizan and ask her if that's valid speculation for the ending.

I'm sure she's down with whatever, so long as you're happy enough to buy Take Back Omega the exciting Mass Effect 3 downloadable content pack coming this September!

Modifié par adneate, 17 avril 2012 - 06:35 .

[Erenbe]

jlb524 wrote...

Zwei133 wrote...

Personally.  I want my femshep to simply disappear with Liara.  The galaxy has asked way too much of Shepard, and she delivered.  She has earned the right to disappear among the stars as Liara suggested just before the Cerberus base and enjoy peace for once.  Let the galaxy think she is dead.

Sometimes I like to 'speculate' that Shepard/Liara really did say 'screw it' and disappear the night before the attack on the Cerberus base (that never really happened).  They secretly found a nice little tropical planet and Shepard accidently ate some unidentified fun mushrooms and hallucinated everything that happened during the ending including the attack on the Cerberus base.

I think Garrus or Wrex or Samara or someone defeated the Reapers...whatevs.

I should tweet Jessica Merizan and ask her if that's valid speculation for the ending.

I would opt for Jacob just talking them to death! That seems highly likely! But overal I like your idea! No space magic...just some mushroom induced hallucination! Seems legit!

[adneate]

Erenbe wrote...
I would opt for Jacob just talking them to death!

Jacob: So that was the first time I ever ate frozen peas that were still kinda frozen, they were okay.

Harbringer: I CAN'T BELIEVE WE WANTED TO ASCEND THIS BORING SPECIES.

Jacob: Now let me tell you about my Uncle from Omaha he owns a cardboard box plant. You know shipping empty generic boxes that people can assemble and then put things in them. Like blank paper or tax returns, though one guy put tennis balls in them which is pretty far out.

Harbringer: THIS HURTS ME.

[DOsquareZER]

adneate wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
I should tweet Jessica Merizan and ask her if that's valid speculation for the ending.

I'm sure she's down with whatever, so long as you're happy enough to buy Take Back Omega the exciting Mass Effect 3 downloadable content pack coming this September!

She'd be proud of your speculative skills to imagine your own creatively interpreted ending.  Thus was the plan and point of ME3's conclusion.  mission success.  now hold still while they decide how deep to lodge the next knife with this 'closure' DLC.

wait..taking back omega DLC? ... so pirated.  I mean..what?  i didnt say anything.

Modifié par doozer12, 17 avril 2012 - 06:49 .

[TheMarshal]

adneate wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
I should tweet Jessica Merizan and ask her if that's valid speculation for the ending.

I'm sure she's down with whatever, so long as you're happy enough to buy Take Back Omega the exciting Mass Effect 3 downloadable content pack coming this September!

So in this DLC we'll get about three feet away from Omega and Aria will be forced to destroy it?

Oh wait!  Aria IS Omega!  She's already gone through Synthesis!  Ooh so deep!

Modifié par TheMarshal, 17 avril 2012 - 07:01 .

[Erenbe]

adneate wrote...

Erenbe wrote...
I would opt for Jacob just talking them to death!

Jacob: So that was the first time I ever ate frozen peas that were still kinda frozen, they were okay.

Harbringer: I CAN'T BELIEVE WE WANTED TO ASCEND THIS BORING SPECIES.

Jacob: Now let me tell you about my Uncle from Omaha he owns a cardboard box plant. You know shipping empty generic boxes that people can assemble and then put things in them. Like blank paper or tax returns, though one guy put tennis balls in them which is pretty far out.

Harbringer: THIS HURTS ME.

lol  

followed by massive reaper suicide! while Shep and Liara are enjoying sunshine and some cocktails on a nice sandy beach! yep....a perfect ending!

[DarkCloudd]

Erenbe wrote...

adneate wrote...

Erenbe wrote...
I would opt for Jacob just talking them to death!

Jacob: So that was the first time I ever ate frozen peas that were still kinda frozen, they were okay.

Harbringer: I CAN'T BELIEVE WE WANTED TO ASCEND THIS BORING SPECIES.

Jacob: Now let me tell you about my Uncle from Omaha he owns a cardboard box plant. You know shipping empty generic boxes that people can assemble and then put things in them. Like blank paper or tax returns, though one guy put tennis balls in them which is pretty far out.

Harbringer: THIS HURTS ME.

lol  

followed by massive reaper suicide! while Shep and Liara are enjoying sunshine and some cocktails on a nice sandy beach! yep....a perfect ending!

I absolutely support this ending, Come on Bioware make it happen just like that!!!!!

[coles4971]

adneate wrote...

Erenbe wrote...
I would opt for Jacob just talking them to death!

Jacob: So that was the first time I ever ate frozen peas that were still kinda frozen, they were okay.

Harbringer: I CAN'T BELIEVE WE WANTED TO ASCEND THIS BORING SPECIES.

Jacob: Now let me tell you about my Uncle from Omaha he owns a cardboard box plant. You know shipping empty generic boxes that people can assemble and then put things in them. Like blank paper or tax returns, though one guy put tennis balls in them which is pretty far out.

Harbringer: THIS HURTS ME.

ME3's ending made Harbinger's "this hurts you" line pretty famous 

[Aristobulus500]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

I'm optimistic in a very pragmatic way. My logic is as follows:
- They're a company who want to make money.
- They can potentially make a lot of money from paid-for DLC for ME3.
- They won't get nearly as much money for future DLC if the ending stays bad, because many people just flat out won't be bothered buying it.
- The fact they're doing anything at all means they're committed to doing SOMETHING which is going to cost money. Therefore they might as well try to make that something GOOD in order to improve future DLC sales.

I admit this, it would certainly be weird of them to go through all the effort of creating and releasing DLC - for free - and have it leave them firmly at square 1 with the IP still torched and fans still hating them. Tremendous waste of time, effort, and money.

I actually blogged about something similar to this a little while back. Here:
http://social.biowar...07/blog/212190/

In summary: Shepard's attitude in the final scene of just submitting to fate and dying is completely nonsensical and easily the worst plothole in the ending to me. My Shepard wouldn't choose red, green or blue. She'd say "screw you" and just sit there in defiance. She makes her own path, not being force into it by some cyber-brat.

Exactly, this too is something I heavily agree with and it fits with how I said the ending is just entirely inconsistent with the themes of the trilogy. It's also inconsistent with Shepard's character - as I said, Shepard is the type to constantly do the impossible and fight against fight for the right for self determination. Shepard just accepting what the Star Child says is the weirdest thing. It's completely out of character.

Honestly, what I want out of the ending DLC, is a 4th optiont o do just that - refuse to take any of the StarChild bull**** choices, and then get a new ending based on your EMS and your paragon/renegade and such, that has scopes similar to the Suicide Mission, where the Reapers can then win entirely, or you can win entirely and escape alive with no casualties.

But let me explain further why the StarChild is so...off. Or atleast, it's not even the Star Child himself, it's actually Shepard that the problems stem from. Seriously! The way Shepard responds is the biggest problem, not actually the Star Child.

Someone once phrased the ending of ME3 like this - it's not an ending, the game just stops. Or rather, it is an ending, but it's really just an extended game over sequence. I couldn't agree with this more. Have any of you ever played Chrono Trigger, on the SNES? The game has multiple endings, and the easiest to get is to simply die and get a game over - you will get an ending of the final boss destroying the world. "But the future refused to change" it says over a greyed out image of the dying Earth.

That's what the ending of ME3 is. It's that ending, except it's all you can get. Let me carry this further, to show why I think Shepard is really the root of the problem - Starchild has all the buildup of a serious, heavy final boss. He reveals he's really the one controlling the Reapers, and they are just tools and it is him who is ultimately causing all of the destruction and strife you've had to suffer through. He reveals that he is the enemy. His motivations are exactly the same kind of ill thought out nonsense a lot of too large scale villains have.

Except Shepard accepts them, instead of resisting. So we're robbed of a final boss fight. ME3 does not have a final boss fight! ME1 and ME2 both did, because Shepard didn't accept the motivations of the bosses as correct. It's as if, in ME1, when Shepard ran into Saren/Sovereign at the end, Saren convinced Shepard to shoot himself. Suddenly the game just ends with Sovereign destroying everything, and you didn't even get a boss fight. The last segment you got was running up the Citadel, just as the last segment we get in ME3 is running through London.

Imagine if the end of ME3 all played out exactly the same, the Starchilds' dialogue and motivations were the same, except instead Shepard says "No, screw you Starchild, we make our own future and we will solve this problem you pose, of the inevitable machine destruction, ourselves. We don't need you holding the galaxay's hands, now get the hell out of my galaxy." and then a boss fight starts with the Starchild, and after you win - or lose! You get a large epilogue and cutscenes showing what happens based on EMS/Paragon/Renegade/Major choices you made/Your LI

I think that would be an incredibly satisfying ending - and that's with keeping the star child! All I did was change Shepard's response. You can leave the star child in, his motivations and everything stay the same, and still make a good ending. But you can't do that if you always keep Shepard just giving up.

[kumquats]

My Shepard takes Control of the Reapers. She gets a new body like EDI. Aethyta and my Shep travel with Harbi to the Normandy crash side.
They turn the Normandy into the most kick ass bar in the Universe. Aria hangs there out all the time!

The shortage of Asari Maidens, forces Liara to become a professional dancer . And since I have the most amazing bar of all Universes, all your Liaras join my Shepard. And before anyone asks. Yes the Techno Turian is there, too.
Music


If BW doesn't give me this ending, I will buy a T-Shirt that shows everyone how full of rage I am.
On the other hand, I think I saw an Asari mod for the Sims3. I think I will just build this bar there.

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

I like Aria and i like Omega, so in ME Invasion Cerberus attack Omega and take the control about the Space Station, in this assoult Cerberus put a new creature some new hibrid, but in ME3 this force not come put form Cerberus in the game, and for me the reason to take Omega is because she is the first Crucible made from Prothean or another lost species, but this is also my theory,

and i dont' know why BioWare have cut the part about the Retake Omega, Aria give you the Omega Fleet , but if Shepard can help Aria to retake Omega, so this part is missing ?

Modifié par FRANCESCO84Inn, 17 avril 2012 - 07:12 .

[Dead_Meat357]

FRANCESCO84Inn wrote...

I like Aria and i like Omega, so in ME Invasion Cerberus attack Omraga and take the control about the Space Station, in this assoult Cerberus put a new creature some new hibrid, but in ME3 this force not come put form Cerberus in the game, and for me the reason to take Omega is because she is the first Crucibal made from Prothean or another lost species, but this is also my theory,

and i dont' know why BioWare have cut the part about the Retake Omega, Aria give you the Omega Fleet , but if Shepard can help Aria to retake Omega, so this part is missing ?

If this content was actually produced, which I doubt, then it was most likely cut to make DLC or ME4.