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[JackofStaves]

d32f123 wrote...

JackofStaves wrote...

 Repost from the "Last words" thread...

 (This is female Shepard, love interest is Liara from ME1 to now.)

Shepard: Anderson? Stay with me. We're almost through this. Anderson?  

*Shepard looks at Anderson's now-peaceful face, and closes her eyes for a moment.  She then touches her bloodied and shattered N7 armor, sighs, and slowly taps her Omnitool's comm function*

Shepard: Li-....Liara? *coughs*  You there?

Liara: Oh, goddess, Shepard, I've been trying to reach you!  Where are you?  After the explosion-

Shepard: Anderson and I made it up, and we did what we came here for.

Liara: I knew you'd get through!  You've made a habit out of salvaging desperate situations, ever since we met.  Why stop now?  Where are you?  I'll have Joker pick me up and we'll get the two of you out of there.

Shepard: *voice strained and breathless* Not this time, Liara.  *coughs, and wipes blood from her mouth*

Liara: Shepard, what's wrong?  Shepard, answer me right now!

Shepard:  Anderson's gone.  And by the time you get here, through all of those Reaper ships, well... I knew this was a one way trip, love.  Had to do it.  Someone else...*rueful smile and sigh* ...would have got it wrong.

Liara: *voice frantic*  No!  Shepard, you tell me where you are!  We've come too far together! I am not losing you today!

Shepard:  Ah, Liara, you'll never lose me.  *wracking cough*  You put me in the stars, remember?  Just look up, and there I'll be, for you.

Liara:  *voice choked with tears*  Though I live a thousand years, you will be my love and my strength.  Please, don't-

Shepard:  *settles back against Anderson, coughing, not bothering to wipe the blood trickling from her lips*  
Love you, Liara...think of me, now and then.  

Liara: *sobbing*  Shepard-

Shepard: Shhhh, it's okay, Liara, it's oka- 

That's not a happy ending :C 

No, but sometimes happily ever after, isn't.  But, she does have Shepard in the stars....

[adneate]

Arcataye wrote...
Every time I look at the Redemption comic I wish that she was more like that in the game.

She's pretty out of character in the comic mainly because in that case she was written by Mac Walters instead of someone with a soul and a heart. Liara has both of those things so it's probably really difficult for someone who lacks both to write them convincingly.

[Aristobulus500]

Yeah, I don't think we need more of that comic's version of Liara. It was too over the top Femme Fatale nonsense, and her voice was completely off. Let me put it to you this way, if you weren't told that was Liara - say even if it went so far as to use another Asari's name - would you ever think it was Liara? Both the art and the writing was so off that I'd just as easily believe it was some random Asari merc or something, that Liara had hired, as I would believe it was Liara herself.

If you want to see Liara be all badass and still be in character about it, you only have to look at LotSB - and ME3 - to really see how to do it right. The comic is not how.

[DOsquareZER]

*stretchs* Oh look...a baby picture.

By mattolsonart @ deviantart

*tackles adneate* Dont mention that stupid name! It invites anger demons!! And activates rage fueled killer instincts! All in all, redemption comic was a bomb for me. Her armor was ok (for an omega stripper)...but thats about it. Wasn't really fond of how easily he took her into OOC territory - tied and gagged her and dragged her kicking and screaming into that comic he did.

Modifié par doozer12, 18 avril 2012 - 04:04 .

[Arcataye]

Hah, you're both overthinking it. I only meant the combat. The game focuses way too much on guns, and by that I mean Liara shouldn't even have to equip a gun. I'd like to see some awesome biotic shows instead of the same old singularity.
-

God, sometimes I just wish I hadn't posted anything as everything is always taken the wrong way.
I won't even try to explain how I agree with you as it might just be taken the wrong way again...
I'll go cry in some corner now, thankyou.

Modifié par Arcataye, 18 avril 2012 - 04:19 .

[Aristobulus500]

Arcataye wrote...

Hah, you're both overthinking it. I meant the combat. The game focuses way too much on guns, and by that I mean Liara shouldn't even have to equip a gun. I'd like to see some awesome biotic shows instead of the same old singularity.

During gameplay, yeah, but cutscenes? Liara uses biotics all the time to take people down in those. It's another reason I like her so much, biotics are just so much more interesting than gunplay.

[jlb524]

rubynorman wrote...


From HumanGrotesque

I'm gonna play MP before dinner

Liara:  Even though they were a dual-gendered species, they did not have separate restrooms for the females and males as with your species.  With that I'll conclude the brief summary of my undergraduate thesis on Prothean restroom etiquette.  Do you have any questions Commander?  Commander?

Shepard.  zzzzzzzzzzzz

Liara:  d'aawww

Modifié par jlb524, 18 avril 2012 - 04:10 .

[ladyvader]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Arcataye wrote...

Hah, you're both overthinking it. I meant the combat. The game focuses way too much on guns, and by that I mean Liara shouldn't even have to equip a gun. I'd like to see some awesome biotic shows instead of the same old singularity.

During gameplay, yeah, but cutscenes? Liara uses biotics all the time to take people down in those. It's another reason I like her so much, biotics are just so much more interesting than gunplay.

Nothing beats her taking out the two Cerberus troopers when we first see her on Mars.  It's like Liara learned the double rule from "Zombieland"  And of course seeing Cerberus going after Liara made me hate Cerberus more.  But seeing that wasn't unexpected.  I thought that type of scene would play out at the SB base, but TIM already went after it.  

[Aristobulus500]

I kindof wanted a chance to take down TIM like you did Kai-Leng, for targeting Liara like that. A higher scale version of the Shadow Broker, fight, really, with Liara getting a chance to show TIM he's not all that hot **** intellectually, and she has the upper hand on him intel wise, too, and then Shep/Liara take him down.

Honestly, the game's treatment of Liara as the Shadow Broker is just not fair at all. She never gets to do anything with it, nor does she ever really get to oppose Cerberus.

[moreeman06]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

I kindof wanted a chance to take down TIM like you did Kai-Leng, for targeting Liara like that. A higher scale version of the Shadow Broker, fight, really, with Liara getting a chance to show TIM he's not all that hot **** intellectually, and she has the upper hand on him intel wise, too, and then Shep/Liara take him down.

Honestly, the game's treatment of Liara as the Shadow Broker is just not fair at all. She never gets to do anything with it, nor does she ever really get to oppose Cerberus.

Yeah I think you should have gotten at the least the N7 missions from her or the terminal in her room instead of Traynor.  But I mean we did establish that Traynor is a human Liara so maybe she's Liara's protoge or something *hunchs shoulders*

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

I love biotic power, all my Female Shepard as an Adept, Sentinel and Vangurd class,

in ME1 i take for the major part of the game Liara ( not also because she is the Li of my Fem Shep)  and Wrex like Squad Member,

in ME3 Liara is so powerfull and whit Javik the team is invincible

Modifié par FRANCESCO84Inn, 18 avril 2012 - 04:26 .

[ladyvader]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

I kindof wanted a chance to take down TIM like you did Kai-Leng, for targeting Liara like that. A higher scale version of the Shadow Broker, fight, really, with Liara getting a chance to show TIM he's not all that hot **** intellectually, and she has the upper hand on him intel wise, too, and then Shep/Liara take him down.

Honestly, the game's treatment of Liara as the Shadow Broker is just not fair at all. She never gets to do anything with it, nor does she ever really get to oppose Cerberus.

She seems to do a lot with her intel as the Shadow Broker.  She found out about the refugees from Tiptree and told Joker about how they were mostly kids.  She uses her information network to tell the krogan not to mess with the bomb Cerberus dug up.  Liara opposed Cerberus while Shepard was on Earth.  It happened, but not in game.  If she wasn't the SB, she would not have found the intel about the Prothean device on Mars.  We don't see it, but she is always working. 

I had a feeling either Liara or EDI would be key in defeating the Reapers and it turned out to be Liara who did it.  When you talk to her between missions, you can tell she is doing her Shadow Broker work.  She is either giving Glyth instructions to relay to someone or he is giving her information.

[Aristobulus500]

ladyvader wrote...
She seems to do a lot with her intel as the Shadow Broker.  She found out about the refugees from Tiptree and told Joker about how they were mostly kids.  She uses her information network to tell the krogan not to mess with the bomb Cerberus dug up.  Liara opposed Cerberus while Shepard was on Earth.  It happened, but not in game.  If she wasn't the SB, she would not have found the intel about the Prothean device on Mars.  We don't see it, but she is always working. 

I had a feeling either Liara or EDI would be key in defeating the Reapers and it turned out to be Liara who did it.  When you talk to her between missions, you can tell she is doing her Shadow Broker work.  She is either giving Glyth instructions to relay to someone or he is giving her information.

Sure, but the problem is most of that is background info or off screen - as such, it has less impact on the player. I mean, look around outside of the Liara thread - an entire meme has spawned about "Liara is a bad information broker" because of how little they actually did with her as the Shadow Broker.

The player actually gets most of his information from sources not Liara. I am not going to make the argument that she is actually bad at what she does - she isn't - I'm just making the argument for how little they did with it that it's easy for other people to make that conclusion.

The player gets most of his intel and missions from Traynor and Hackett. It's very easy to really miss anything Liara actually does, and for the player to just not care about all the background stuff she's doing in relation to the Crucible or just in keeping tabs on the rest of the galaxy, because she's not the one to step up with info related to the player.

Liara really should've been the source of most of your intel in the game, followed by Hackett then Traynor. If you don't specifically talk to Liara, do you even know she does anything other than Mars, which again all that information broker work she does related to that happens off screen before the game starts? Whereas you're forced to at least be given missions by Hackett and Traynor, even though you don't have to do them all - you will at least recognize that they did some intel gathering.

[rubynorman]

@ JackofStaves No, why did you make me cry before going to bed (
*Sigh* blue dreams/good day/afternoon everyone.
I'm gonna put my face into the pillow and cry now. Please don't hit the 1300 page without me this time, I missed 1000-1100-1200 page.

[ladyvader]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

ladyvader wrote...
She seems to do a lot with her intel as the Shadow Broker.  She found out about the refugees from Tiptree and told Joker about how they were mostly kids.  She uses her information network to tell the krogan not to mess with the bomb Cerberus dug up.  Liara opposed Cerberus while Shepard was on Earth.  It happened, but not in game.  If she wasn't the SB, she would not have found the intel about the Prothean device on Mars.  We don't see it, but she is always working. 

I had a feeling either Liara or EDI would be key in defeating the Reapers and it turned out to be Liara who did it.  When you talk to her between missions, you can tell she is doing her Shadow Broker work.  She is either giving Glyth instructions to relay to someone or he is giving her information.

Sure, but the problem is most of that is background info or off screen - as such, it has less impact on the player. I mean, look around outside of the Liara thread - an entire meme has spawned about "Liara is a bad information broker" because of how little they actually did with her as the Shadow Broker.

The player actually gets most of his information from sources not Liara. I am not going to make the argument that she is actually bad at what she does - she isn't - I'm just making the argument for how little they did with it that it's easy for other people to make that conclusion.

The player gets most of his intel and missions from Traynor and Hackett. It's very easy to really miss anything Liara actually does, and for the player to just not care about all the background stuff she's doing in relation to the Crucible or just in keeping tabs on the rest of the galaxy, because she's not the one to step up with info related to the player.

Liara really should've been the source of most of your intel in the game, followed by Hackett then Traynor. If you don't specifically talk to Liara, do you even know she does anything other than Mars, which again all that information broker work she does related to that happens off screen before the game starts? Whereas you're forced to at least be given missions by Hackett and Traynor, even though you don't have to do them all - you will at least recognize that they did some intel gathering.

Remember her telling Shepard to talk to Barla Von?  Maybe after the guilt trip Shepard gave Liara about hacking the terminals on Illium, Liara is using others to give the intel Shepard needs.  Instead of giving it to Shepard directly. 

People are forgetting, Shepard is an Alliance soldier.  Or course the intel Shepard is getting is going to come from Hackett.  Where is Hackett getting it?  For all we know, it is from Liara.  The information Traynor is givng Shepard is the information Traynor herself is finding. 

I don't care what others say about Liara and her being a bad information broker.  That is their view.  Not mine.  Liara is helping with the Cruicible.  Getting the resourses the project needs.  The computers on the Normandy and Liara's own network are not linked together.  Traynor is looking for one thing, while Liara is doing something else.  Traynor is going through comm channels finding things. 

Actually Liara is a very good information broker and those that say different are most likely those that don't like Liara anyway because they feel she is forced on them.  Well, Cerberus was forced on me and I didn't like it, but I don't bash on those with Cerberus outside of TIM.  He is one I love to hate.  Then add Kai Leng.

Adding:
The A-Y mission was from Liara.  Asari high command contacted her about it.  And she passed it on to Shepard.

Modifié par ladyvader, 18 avril 2012 - 04:46 .

[Wulfram]

I'd guess Bioware didn't want to make Liara too important - fans of other characters complain about her getting a lot of focus already.

And she does after all discover the key to defeating the Reapers, piling more plot importance on top of that might be going too far.

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

Cerberus in origin was part to the Alliance, and is possible this organization have some agent put undercover in the maximum level fo Alliance, and TIM was put in the Normandy spy detector, and Kelly she frequently dispatching to TIM retailor information about Sheaprd,crew,squad and much more.

[JackofStaves]

rubynorman wrote...

@ JackofStaves No, why did you make me cry before going to bed (
*Sigh* blue dreams/good day/afternoon everyone.
I'm gonna put my face into the pillow and cry now. Please don't hit the 1300 page without me this time, I missed 1000-1100-1200 page.

Sorry about that...I have a streak of romantic melancholy a mile wide, and for some reason my Liara/Shepard romance brings it out in droves....

[ladyvader]

Wulfram wrote...

I'd guess Bioware didn't want to make Liara too important - fans of other characters complain about her getting a lot of focus already.

And she does after all discover the key to defeating the Reapers, piling more plot importance on top of that might be going too far.

She gets more with her romance than the others.  We are forgetting that as well.  There are many that feel Liara is forced on them.  She melds with Shepard during ME1 even if Shepard tells her no.  Which did tick people off.

BW needed to balance things out some.  I don't think it is Liara's job to tell Shepard what Shepard needs to be doing.  She gave Shepard intel through out the game.  That is enough.

[Dude on Fire]

It's all one of the symptoms of BioWare not having the time they needed. Narr-a-tive co-he-sion not being present.

[DOsquareZER]

Wulfram wrote...

I'd guess Bioware didn't want to make Liara too important - fans of other characters complain about her getting a lot of focus already.

And she does after all discover the key to defeating the Reapers, piling more plot importance on top of that might be going too far.

Im going to have to agree with this.  Bioware pandering getting in the way of sense.  Look how well the whole "intro to new players" fared with her romance, made things...weird IMO.  The ''pandering'' they wanted to give their fans wasn't handled very well - doesn't matter, we all got a giant ''screw you'' in the end anyways.

Modifié par doozer12, 18 avril 2012 - 05:01 .

[ladyvader]

Dude on Fire wrote...

It's all one of the symptoms of BioWare not having the time they needed. Narr-a-tive co-he-sion not being present.

I beg to differ, but I do not want to debate it.

People need to remember one thing.  Writing a narritive on this scope is not easy.  They have to account for more than any other type of medium.  There are over 10 different LI for Shepard.  That in itself can be a nightmare.  Then add in the route each Shepard can take.  Which is many.  They have to try and make it all work.  It is perfect? No it is not, but they did a good job with most of it.

You may feel the game seems rushed, but I do not see it.  We got a wonderful story.  Just not one many people wanted or expected when it comes to the ending, which I find fitting.  Which is why I wasn't expecting anything and kept away from this site for almost four months.  

[Aristobulus500]

ladyvader wrote...
BW needed to balance things out some.  I don't think it is Liara's job to tell Shepard what Shepard needs to be doing.  She gave Shepard intel through out the game.  That is enough.

I just disagree. What's "enough" is whatever it makes sense and is in character for a character to be doing.The problem is, it's actually out of character for her to not be more helpful with her position than she is. That's bad writing.

If it's too much significance given to a single character to be placed in that role - if this is an honest criticism, you don't put a character in that role. But she was made the Shadow Broker, so that needed to be utilized.

You'll notice your arguments are starting to be based on "what fans want to see, it should be 'balanced'" and I'm ignoring that - mine are focused around pure writing standpoints. My arguments have nothing to do with my own personal opinion of Liara - it's all writing focused. She was made extremely powerful, so it's out of character if that power is handwaved away or ignored.

My arguments would work just as well if it was Tali or Garrus made the Shadow Broker or something. The point is entirely that it's actually a very powerful and significant role that just isn't handled properly.

[JackofStaves]

ladyvader wrote...

Dude on Fire wrote...

It's all one of the symptoms of BioWare not having the time they needed. Narr-a-tive co-he-sion not being present.

I beg to differ, but I do not want to debate it.

People need to remember one thing.  Writing a narritive on this scope is not easy.  They have to account for more than any other type of medium.  There are over 10 different LI for Shepard.  That in itself can be a nightmare.  Then add in the route each Shepard can take.  Which is many.  They have to try and make it all work.  It is perfect? No it is not, but they did a good job with most of it.

You may feel the game seems rushed, but I do not see it.  We got a wonderful story.  Just not one many people wanted or expected when it comes to the ending, which I find fitting.  Which is why I wasn't expecting anything and kept away from this site for almost four months.  

I just finished watching the Pax Bioware panel video on YouTube with the ME3 team, and it was quite enlightening just how complex the plots and characters become when you have to account for all the permutations....

[DarkCloudd]

JackofStaves wrote...

d32f123 wrote...

JackofStaves wrote...

*snip to keep the tree down*
 

That's not a happy ending :C 

No, but sometimes happily ever after, isn't.  But, she does have Shepard in the stars....

I wouldn't have had a problem with that being one of the endings if your EMS wasn't high enough but I really want Shep to be rescued by their LI and retire to some far off quite world not what we got. To be honest they have put Shepard through enough in the games that retirement with their LI of choice should be the least thing Bioware gave Shepard. And the Liara Project Scene I think was Liara's idea if they failed not if they succeeded.

Edit: Not quite Top but I'll post one anyway.



Shepard: You need something Liara?
Liara: *Bashfully* I can think of something I need Shepard...

Modifié par DarkCloudd, 18 avril 2012 - 05:18 .