56469 réponses à ce sujet

[mbr.to]

the one and only thing i dont like about liara in me3 was her lipstick xD.
blue lips were the best

[Robhuzz]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
Click here to read it.

The part I had hoped they would keep is Kai Leng beating Shepard and actually impaling him on a metal rebar. Would have been alot better than what we got.

Wow, that's brutal. As painful as that would've been to see, I admit it would've done a lot to actually make Kai Leng into a threat - he's not strong enough to beat Shepard straight up, but won through cunning in planting a bomb beforehand, rather than a plot armored gunship you can't defeat for some reason.

And that would be a really dramatic scene, being injured like that, and seeing Liara and the other squadmate get injured...really cold.

I would save Liara every time, though. I couldn't really take a death scene with her.

I do think you're ultimately right that the segment would've been stronger if they had gone with that, though.

That doesn't work with the timeline of ME3 events though. A grievous injury like that would take months for Shepard to heal, and the Reapers aren't going to wait for a few months while Shepard heals up enough to put up a dramatic final fight.
They had to change it or it would make the entire last 30% of the game make no sense rather than just the last 5%.

They could've altered that quite easily. Instead of impaling Shepard on that metal rod, have him be blown backwards and almost falling off a ledge, just holding it with his hands (sort of what happens in the final version), with the injuries sustained from the bomb, he'd take a while to pull himself up, long enough for Leng to escape and to make it to just 1 of the injured squadmembers.

I wonder what Liara would say if you sacrificed the VS to save her. Would she feel guilty like the VS in ME1? Of course she would but would she let it drag her down since she now got two things to mourn: A squadmember dead because Shepard saved her, and the loss of her homeworld.

Either way, paragon intterupt hug would definitely be required.

[TheMarshal]

Lizardviking wrote...
Click here to read it.

The part I had hoped they would keep is Kai Leng beating Shepard and actually impaling him on a metal rebar. Would have been alot better than what we got.

That would have made for an amazing sequence, but it would disrupt the rest of the flow of the story.  A sobbing Liara worried about the destruction of Thessia suddenly becomes callous to the loss of the other squaddie.  Kai Leng v. Miranda would only end in one way.  And defeating him on Cronos station would have been far more unlikely.  Someone in that thread mentioned one of the nigh-unkillable bad guys in DA:O (Ser Catherine?), and how it was possible to defeat her, just really really difficult.  Having Kai Leng be like that would have been interesting, but again, not locking him in to a certain sequence of events would have drastically reduced the storytelling capabilities in other areas.

[Sunnie]

I think they made some conscious and very correct decisions to change that scene. With the forced deaths of a few ME2 squad mates, adding another Virmire choice on top of it would have been a huge issue and would just be another cliched overuse of that device that had already been used in the series.

[Aristobulus500]

Actually, a vermire like choice in that situation would be a really good opportunity for some more conflicts with the squad.

Imagine it's a Liara Loyal Shep. Then, more than ever, Liara might feel personally responsible for the others' death. Would Shepard have let them die if Shep wasn't so invested in her? Will Shep always let other people die to save her, and how many people will Shep let die to do it? How much blood can Liara imagine being on her hands, in a roundabout way? It's not *fair* to think that, but Survivor's Guilt never is fair.

As well, it's something that could cause a stir in the rest of the squad. They'd have to be wondering about the same things - is Shepard's involvement with Liara clouding his judgement? Can they ever feel safe, around Shep/Liara, or will Shep always sacrifice them to save Liara?

So those could be interesting themes to explore. That said, I do want to admit I don't like a forced, vermire style choice. I thought it was lame in ME1 and it'd still be inherently lame, even in ME3. The problem is, because it's forced like that, it doesn't really have the significance as if it was a result of you, as the player, failing to do something. Since all you do, no matter how well or how poorly you play, is the same - you simply pick from the dialogue wheel who you want to save, it loses some of the dramatic impact.

This is because there's no real feeling that you failed somehow, that this is a defeat. It's simply you being railroaded. Again, think to the suicide mission, which was so successful because people *could* die, but if you played right, they didn't *have* to. Would've been less dramatic if someone always died, say, in the vents or leading a fireteam or something. But knowing that it's possible, but depends on your choices? More meaningful.

Same for Vermire style situations.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...
That doesn't work with the timeline of ME3 events though. A grievous injury like that would take months for Shepard to heal, and the Reapers aren't going to wait for a few months while Shepard heals up enough to put up a dramatic final fight.
They had to change it or it would make the entire last 30% of the game make no sense rather than just the last 5%.

Then they could have used a less grievious injury then, perhaps simply let Shepard get injured enough that Kai Leng beats him, but not enough that it will take months for him to recover.

But they did  do that with the scene they shipped. Shepard got beat but not in a way that would take her out of the fight for the sake of the narrative.

Shepard does not get injured in the current version. I am asking for something that injures them and puts them out of the fight for a day or two (or just for the remaining part of the mission). The explosion could have been violent enough to knock Shepard out, even if just momentarily.

TheMarshal wrote...
That would have made for an amazing
sequence, but it would disrupt the rest of the flow of the story.  A
sobbing Liara worried about the destruction of Thessia suddenly becomes
callous to the loss of the other squaddie.  Kai Leng v. Miranda would
only end in one way.  And defeating him on Cronos station would have
been far more unlikely.  Someone in that thread mentioned one of the
nigh-unkillable bad guys in DA:O (Ser Catherine?), and how it was possible
to defeat her, just really really difficult.  Having Kai Leng be like
that would have been interesting, but again, not locking him in to a
certain sequence of events would have drastically reduced the
storytelling capabilities in other areas.

What I want was the part of Shepard being beaten in a slightly more brutal way by Kai Leng to remain, no the Virmire 2.0 part. Kai Leng is presented as a credible threat and a clever opponent who wins by deploying traps and etc. Shepard can still take him down if he fights hard enough.

And no, the fight should not have been a Catherine fight. Shepard always lose like he does now.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 19 avril 2012 - 05:09 .

[DarkCloudd]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
Click here to read it.

The part I had hoped they would keep is Kai Leng beating Shepard and actually impaling him on a metal rebar. Would have been alot better than what we got.

Wow, that's brutal. As painful as that would've been to see, I admit it would've done a lot to actually make Kai Leng into a threat - he's not strong enough to beat Shepard straight up, but won through cunning in planting a bomb beforehand, rather than a plot armored gunship you can't defeat for some reason.

And that would be a really dramatic scene, being injured like that, and seeing Liara and the other squadmate get injured...really cold.

I would save Liara every time, though. I couldn't really take a death scene with her.

I do think you're ultimately right that the segment would've been stronger if they had gone with that, though.

That doesn't work with the timeline of ME3 events though. A grievous injury like that would take months for Shepard to heal, and the Reapers aren't going to wait for a few months while Shepard heals up enough to put up a dramatic final fight.
They had to change it or it would make the entire last 30% of the game make no sense rather than just the last 5%.

I agree with you Sunnie, plus Leng really isn't a nemesis to Shepard, except for Thessia when he cheats to beat you, he didn't succeed at anything he tried to do. As Thane put it, (I'm summerizing here) "That assassin should be ashamed of himself, a terminally ill drell managed to keep him from his target." I can kinda understand what Bioware was trying to do with him but the failed and giving you another Sophie's Choice scenario that late in the game would have been just terrible, I wouldn't have hated Leng, (even though I really don't like him anyway), I would have hated the writers even more in that situation. I might have been able to go along with something like that if there were more squad mates available through the game. Given the fact that without From Ashes=No Javik, once the VS is healed they can go to Hackett, Tali and Garrus both can die on the Suicide Mission in ME2, that leaves you with the potential of just 3 squad mates for the rest of the game, 2 if they actually wrote it so Leng killed 1 off. Thats just not enough.

Edit: Something else that keeps bothering me throught the game like this, what happened to all of shepards upgrades you got in ME2. If you actually read the info for the shepard specific upgrades they basically make her as tough as a krogan just without all of the redundant organs. She heals faster and has harder bones and skin than an average human, so why does it seem like she is so squishy in ME3? Did the alliance knock her out and take all of that stuff away? If they didn't then there is no way Leng would beat her even with plot armor.

Modifié par DarkCloudd, 19 avril 2012 - 05:19 .

[Sunnie]

Shepard being injured or wounded does not fit into the narrative though, so forcing that would feel, well, forced, and out of place. Look at the series so far, Shepard never gets "wounded" and has to be out of action for a few days, she is either fully unscathed or completely busted up and/or dead, theres no in-between. Forcing that all of the sudden at almost the end just doesn't work.

Also, with Kai Leng, they needed him for the TIM base fight, so there was no way they can let him even possibly get beat on Thessia. They would have had to put in an alternate path through TIMs base and that just wasn't going to happen.

[yesikareyes]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...
That doesn't work with the timeline of ME3 events though. A grievous injury like that would take months for Shepard to heal, and the Reapers aren't going to wait for a few months while Shepard heals up enough to put up a dramatic final fight.
They had to change it or it would make the entire last 30% of the game make no sense rather than just the last 5%.

Then they could have used a less grievious injury then, perhaps simply let Shepard get injured enough that Kai Leng beats him, but not enough that it will take months for him to recover.

But they did  do that with the scene they shipped. Shepard got beat but not in a way that would take her out of the fight for the sake of the narrative.

I thought I felt the defeat on Thessia. It was a major blow to my ego and I felt Shepard's pain. It was a huge defeat for Derek, because I really felt that I let Liara down. I liked how Liara was comforting Shep in Thessia... I think? I thought that was sweet.

It might not be a physical defeat, but a strongly emotional one.

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg338/scaled.php?server=338&filename=wmplayer201204101919425.jpg&res=landing

man, this is so sweet ||||<3:wub:

Modifié par FRANCESCO84Inn, 19 avril 2012 - 05:18 .

[TheMarshal]

Shepard getting injured and/or losing one of your squaddies would have made for a very impactful scene, but it would have come at the cost of the rest of the narrative. As Sunnie pointed out, Shepard's NEVER been injured to the point of being out of combat. The closest was after Eden Prim 1.0, but even then that was just a mental thing. I don't know that another Virmire would have felt forced. It would have been devastating, but in the long run it would have reduced the number of options available to the player. Even at a point as late in the game as Thessia, that would have been too restrictive.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Shepard being injured or wounded does not fit into the narrative though, so forcing that would feel, well, forced, and out of place. Look at the series so far, Shepard never gets "wounded" and has to be out of action for a few days, she is either fully unscathed or completely busted up and/or dead, theres no in-between. Forcing that all of the sudden at almost the end just doesn't work.

Shepard gets knocked out for a few hours after getting hit by the Eden prime beacon. That is a case of Shepard being turned helpless without being fataly wounded.

Also, with Kai Leng, they needed him for the TIM base fight, so there was no way they can let him even possibly get beat on Thessia. They would have had to put in an alternate path through TIMs base and that just wasn't going to happen.

Then Bioware should simple always let it happen. Like how Saren always escapes on Vimire.

[IliyaMoroumetz]

skylar-2 wrote...

Everyone, you are all so kind, thank you so much!

I really want to make a Liara x FemShep fan art, but not quite sure how to go about it. Plus i've never done anything like that before, so ideas are always welcome! With this I just wanted to create soething that showed her in her more confident state - the transgression from the first Mass Effect where she was socially awkward and quite shy, to the confident and hardened person she has become be Mass Effect 3.

Liara deserves more love. Thank the Goddess for this thread eh ?

As someone else mentioned, perhaps reading a few fanfiction stories would give some inspiration.

And judging by your skill, it would definately be appreciated.

You have a talent, keep using it and thank you for sharing it.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

FRANCESCO84Inn wrote...

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg338/scaled.php?server=338&filename=wmplayer201204101919425.jpg&res=landing

man, this is so sweet ||||<3:wub:

A little something extra.

http://desmond.image...jpg&res=landing

[DOsquareZER]

they were on the right track with Kai leng targeting shepard's team rather than shepard him/herself (VS or Liara, although I just got VS back...that decision would have pissed me off to no end - and the survivor guilt we would put liara through for that...ugh be a huge detriment in the relationship). The whole injury part...yea i think sunnies right how the it would be too big of an interference call against the narrative all ready set by the previous games...
Kinda figured the KL-conrad-assasin could do the job without breaking a sweat or allowing Shepard to lay a finger on him because he would cunningly force shep into no-win situations...involving his/her squadmembers - each time forcing you to pick between team or mission. But i guess such a tactic would be a little too...trying on the fanbase, too much loss to take in one game lol.

Modifié par doozer12, 19 avril 2012 - 05:45 .

[Wulfram]

I'm not really keen on repeating a popularity contest "choose between squadmates" sort of thing.

I do sort of feel there should have been the possibility of Liara dieing on Thessia. She's very near total despair at that point, she could easily have done something suicidally dangerous in an attempt to stop Kai Leng. Then, if Shepard has been nice enough to her and takes a paragon interrupt, she gets the strength of will to live on.

[rubynorman]

Here is some newscreenshots I just took today, because I have nothing to do 
Love on the field



"I've seen the way you two look at each other, I'm surprised your panties haven't caught on fire."

This BroShep here didn't romance Liara in ME1,ME2, friendzone LotSB But in ME3 100% he will romance Liara


Everyone love the asari


More in here http://www.mediafire.../?gl2bbedbd680r

[yesikareyes]

Ajosraa wrote...

Ok I need to post this one as well, This is what I think many would have liked it to be like after the Thessia mission:



 

Hey man that is just so sweet  I blushed upon seeing this photo. I don't use Sheploo but I think he's gorgeous. If I see Mark Vanderloo and the girl who played Liara in an Asari outfit... I'd totally freak. 

Good find!

[Tyranniac]

Wulfram wrote...

I'm not really keen on repeating a popularity contest "choose between squadmates" sort of thing.

I do sort of feel there should have been the possibility of Liara dieing on Thessia. She's very near total despair at that point, she could easily have done something suicidally dangerous in an attempt to stop Kai Leng. Then, if Shepard has been nice enough to her and takes a paragon interrupt, she gets the strength of will to live on.

I agree with this. I wouldn't have liked another Virmire choice, but having the possibility of Liara dying would've been very interesting. I'd have liked to have an alternate playthrough with my main Shep (Mostly paragon) where Liara dies on Thessia, causing her to change attitude completely for the rest of the game.

[Aristobulus500]

I missed where that picture of Shep/Liara was posted. That is pretty much what needed to happen for a Shep/Liara romance, after Thessia. Still boggles my mind that Bioware didn't think of that for such a significant scene.

[pacer90]

TheMarshal wrote...

pacer90 wrote...

Thanks Marshal! The wait was excruciating, as is the wait for the DLC to fix that atrocity of an ending. You should pump out some Liara fluff to hold me over until it comes out.

I'm almost done with the next chapter of Returned, which marks the section closer.  I may or may not do some fluff between this and the next chapter.  I have some fluff ideas, but the next chapter is really speaking to me at the moment.

I love the premise of Returned. What do you mean by section closer? I hope you're not ending at 3 chapters  

[Sunnie]

Wulfram wrote...

I'm not really keen on repeating a popularity contest "choose between squadmates" sort of thing.

I do sort of feel there should have been the possibility of Liara dieing on Thessia. She's very near total despair at that point, she could easily have done something suicidally dangerous in an attempt to stop Kai Leng. Then, if Shepard has been nice enough to her and takes a paragon interrupt, she gets the strength of will to live on.

Liara has plot armor all the way to the "beam run", she is esential for the narrative all the way up to that point. There sno way they would have been able to let her die on Thessia and not call it a "Critical Mission Failure".

[TheMarshal]

pacer90 wrote...

I love the premise of Returned. What do you mean by section closer? I hope you're not ending at 3 chapters  

No no no.  I have easily 6-8 more chapters after this one.  I meant section closer as in there will be this section, then a time skip, then another section, then a time skip, then the final section.

[Tyranniac]

Sunnie22 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I'm not really keen on repeating a popularity contest "choose between squadmates" sort of thing.

I do sort of feel there should have been the possibility of Liara dieing on Thessia. She's very near total despair at that point, she could easily have done something suicidally dangerous in an attempt to stop Kai Leng. Then, if Shepard has been nice enough to her and takes a paragon interrupt, she gets the strength of will to live on.

Liara has plot armor all the way to the "beam run", she is esential for the narrative all the way up to that point. There sno way they would have been able to let her die on Thessia and not call it a "Critical Mission Failure".

I can't really recall any moment after Thessia where she is essential to the plot. I'm probably missing something, what are you referring to?

Edit:
 

Modifié par Tyranniac, 19 avril 2012 - 06:39 .

[Sunnie]

Well, for starters, everyone that dies in ME3 has some kind of send off, a final goodbye scene. That doesn't happen with Liara until the FOB, right before the whole game goes south. Killing Liara on Thessia would not allow for the "proper" goodbye that the narrative has been adhering to over the course of this game. She also is needed for the Shadow Broker stuff that gets updated after Thessia. If I remember right, theres another researched upgrade from one of her terminals and theres a few more lore notes that she enters.