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[Cadwyn]

TheMarshal wrote...

Arcataye wrote...

Found an awesome... more than awesome Mass Effect music video with some house music in Flux.

Mass Effect - DJ Hawk Palaven @ Flux

Oh Liara's eyes... so sensual. Too bad Cerberus didn't restore Shepard's dance moves.

You should see the other stuff datSilencer has done.  Time Orchid is pretty incredible, as is Anger.  I think aside from DJ Hawk Palaven @ Flux, my favorite is the little ad he made for Afterlife.  He's got a page on vimeo, which I think he prefers.

Powerful stuff, I'm so happy you shared these links with us. I feel so trippy now !!

Liara's eyes are indeed incredible.

[The Lightspeaker]

Ok, interrupting with a quick request:
I've already got a couple of people helping me to edit my fanfics when I've finished writing them and to act as a kind of "pre-release audience". However the luck of the draw meant they're both male.

That didn't matter too much for my earlier parts but the more I'm writing and the deeper the relationship is getting the more I'm convinced I really, really need some female eyes on it as well. I want it to be right and I want it to "feel genuine" and without both guys and girls taking a look in advance I fear I may miss something important. Especially since I'm a guy writing Femshep/Liara romance fics.

It'd be very valuable to me to have at least one, perhaps two, female volunteer(s) as well to help with this editing/review thing. So...any volunteers?

[Soda Master]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

Ok, interrupting with a quick request:
I've already got a couple of people helping me to edit my fanfics when I've finished writing them and to act as a kind of "pre-release audience". However the luck of the draw meant they're both male.

That didn't matter too much for my earlier parts but the more I'm writing and the deeper the relationship is getting the more I'm convinced I really, really need some female eyes on it as well. I want it to be right and I want it to "feel genuine" and without both guys and girls taking a look in advance I fear I may miss something important. Especially since I'm a guy writing Femshep/Liara romance fics.

It'd be very valuable to me to have at least one, perhaps two, female volunteer(s) as well to help with this editing/review thing. So...any volunteers?

I can do it - if you want, PM it to me and I'll look it over.

 ((Btw, as per my own post, do you know if there's anywhere I could get some good Sheploo/Liara footage w/out subtitles?))

[Clayless]

Ok should I make an avatar out of this?

[TheMarshal]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

Ok, interrupting with a quick request:
I've already got a couple of people helping me to edit my fanfics when I've finished writing them and to act as a kind of "pre-release audience". However the luck of the draw meant they're both male.

That didn't matter too much for my earlier parts but the more I'm writing and the deeper the relationship is getting the more I'm convinced I really, really need some female eyes on it as well. I want it to be right and I want it to "feel genuine" and without both guys and girls taking a look in advance I fear I may miss something important. Especially since I'm a guy writing Femshep/Liara romance fics.

It'd be very valuable to me to have at least one, perhaps two, female volunteer(s) as well to help with this editing/review thing. So...any volunteers?

Why do you think that you may miss something as a guy writing FemShep/Liara?  I'm curious since I'm in the same boat, but I never considered that my perspective as a guy would negatively affect me writing these characters.

[IliyaMoroumetz]

TheMarshal wrote...

Why do you think that you may miss something as a guy writing FemShep/Liara?  I'm curious since I'm in the same boat, but I never considered that my perspective as a guy would negatively affect me writing these characters.

Agreed.  Many a writer makes the mistake of trying to attach unneccesary weights to their characters.

Don't worry about if they're believable as 'female' or 'male' characters.

Just focus on making them believable characters. 
 
The rest will work itself out.

[The Lightspeaker]

TheMarshal wrote...

Why do you think that you may miss something as a guy writing FemShep/Liara?  I'm curious since I'm in the same boat, but I never considered that my perspective as a guy would negatively affect me writing these characters.

I'll PM you.

[PMC65]

I understand what Lightspeaker means ... I reach out to my brother and male friends when there are certain scenes I am writing which require a little T perspective. These talks have been really interesting for me as it shows different viewpoints.

But I also reach out to ex-serviceman for some military feedback, moms for mommy moments, med friends for injuries, etc. I may not put what they give me in the story but it helps turn the Earth as I create ... My grandmother probably wishes I would lose her number as well.

It helps with seeing things from a completely different angle and not just yours. Writing for me is part imagination (the characters own input), my own personal experiences and other voices (friends, family, associates as needed) mixed together.

[IliyaMoroumetz]

PMC65 wrote...

I understand what Lightspeaker means ... I reach out to my brother and male friends when there are certain scenes I am writing which require a little T perspective. These talks have been really interesting for me as it shows different viewpoints.

But I also reach out to ex-serviceman for some military feedback, moms for mommy moments, med friends for injuries, etc. I may not put what they give me in the story but it helps turn the Earth as I create ... My grandmother probably wishes I would lose her number as well.

It helps with seeing things from a completely different angle and not just yours. Writing for me is part imagination (the characters own input), my own personal experiences and other voices (friends, family, associates as needed) mixed together.

PMC! 

*Hugs*

And yes, you got great points.  Especially when we spoke about Hannah Shepard from A Thessian Whisper yesterday. The inspiration for her was great.

[moreeman06]

rubynorman wrote...

@TheMarshal, doozer12, moreeman06:  I will continue my oneshot then, I just think of some funny lines. I got my writing's spirit back Woohoo
Umm ah.. Would anyone want to be my beta reader please? Because my English is not good and this is the first time I write fanfic.

I'll be a beta reader if you want just PM me

DarkCloudd wrote...

Arcataye wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...
That might be true, but if that's the case, Shepard's portrayal there is still a failure because he doesn't come across as simply too exhausted and defeated himself to be any consolation, he just seems cold and distant.

He really just seemed like he was talking to some random crewmember who needed a pep talk, I don't know.
What I really expected from the scene while I played was that he'd hug her and the scene fades out, but no.

For a real simple and better than the jackass Shepard, the scene could've been that he just walks over to Liara and sits next to her, then fade the scene out. I mean there's even no need for words/touch. It would've been enough to show that he's there for her. And that would've worked as both LI / non-LI scene I guess.

This mainly is what I was thinking. Even if you don't romance Liara but are friends with her, Liara is the character that your Shepard doesn't have to be "Commander Shepard" with, she sees you as just Shepard, you don't have to wear the emotional armor around her because she sees right through it anyway. I would have much rather had a 5 minute conversation where they are both comforting and building each other back up, because that's the way the Asari are. They are the diplomats and voices of reason, but the way the scene played out it was just, cold, bastard Shepard saying "get back to work".

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

Speaking for myself, Nora Shepard would have hugged, kissed, and proceed to give Liara the best comfort loving ever.

Because, frankly, Nora and Liara have been an item since ME1 and they got some serious catching up to do in regards to shagging.

I'm not saying I disagree with you but this is something I can headcannon happening. I don't need to see it in game all the time. I just would have liked to see alt dialog that was romance specific in that scene where Liara at least got a hug or a shoulder to cry on, something would have been better that what played out.

 

I agree I would have liked to see some type of romance specific dialogue or atleast a hug.  the speech still would have worked fine with one in there.  I just wanted something in there that says Liara I'm here for you.  As for the Shep is frazzled thing, if that's what BW was trying to get across they screwed it up the dialogue especially the speech is like a coach telling you to get up and keep going its devoid of any kind of closeness to Liara or any feeling that Shep him/herself is tired and falling apart as much as Liara is

[ladyvader]

TheMarshal wrote..

Why do you think that you may miss something as a guy writing FemShep/Liara?  I'm curious since I'm in the same boat, but I never considered that my perspective as a guy would negatively affect me writing these characters.

They don't actually.  You do a wonderful job with Alice and Liara.  I am a female but I am not a parent.  I have people tell me they like the parenting style of Leia and Liara.  I have no perspective on parenting, but I must be doing a good job because people do enjoy it.  They like the kids too.  

I think it more about how creative you are instead of your own perspective.  I haven't read the chapter you posted today yet, but I will before going to bed tonight. 

Modifié par ladyvader, 20 avril 2012 - 07:39 .

[PMC65]

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

PMC! 

*Hugs*

And yes, you got great points.  Especially when we spoke about Hannah Shepard from A Thessian Whisper yesterday. The inspiration for her was great.

Hugs back! And thanks for your time on discussing Garrus ... I appreciated your impression of him. Don't be surprised if I ever call you for a little T perspective. 

[ladyvader]

LnzOQuin wrote...

I found a song that I think would be perfect to make a Shepard/Liara vid to - but I play on the 360 and don't have a capture card. I was wondering if anyone could direct me to some good quality Shepard and Liara footage (preferably Sheploo) that doesn't have subtitles for the dialogue?

You can buy a Dazzle video capture device and hook it up to your 360.  Where I get my recording from.  You need to have the 6 prong HD compost cord for it to work and the slims doesn't have that cord.  Any questions shoot me a PM, I'll be happy to answer your questions about it.

[pacer90]

TheMarshal wrote...

Figured I'd post about my update to Returned in here, despite the story still not having any Liara in it.

Quoted for an interesting read.

[kumquats]

TheMarshal wrote...

Why do you think that you may miss something as a guy writing FemShep/Liara?  I'm curious since I'm in the same boat, but I never considered that my perspective as a guy would negatively affect me writing these characters.

No you won't, I'm having a deja-vu, because I wrote that already today. But why the hell not.
Stieg Larsson, created the best female lead character, in any book I've read, so far. This character isn't lacking or missing anything at all.

On the other hand, I do indeed feel like that a male author has a different style than a female author.
But that's only my small opinion.

[wickedgoodreed]

moreeman06 wrote...

I agree I would have liked to see some type of romance specific dialogue or atleast a hug.  the speech still would have worked fine with one in there.  I just wanted something in there that says Liara I'm here for you.  As for the Shep is frazzled thing, if that's what BW was trying to get across they screwed it up the dialogue especially the speech is like a coach telling you to get up and keep going its devoid of any kind of closeness to Liara or any feeling that Shep him/herself is tired and falling apart as much as Liara is

Totally agree with this.

What's weird is that there is romance specific dialogue in the scene (at least, as far as I can figure that's what made the difference). It's just incredibly minor.

Not in a romance with Liara, I got: 
Liara:...Or was I so focused on the Catalyst that I ignored my own people?
Shepard: Liara, you had nothing to do with the attack on Thessia.
Liara: Nothing to do with it?! I told those people on Thessia we'd save them! 

In a romance with Liara: 
Liara:...Or was I so focused on the Catalyst that I ignored my own people?
Shepard: You'd never do that.
Liara: They're dying by the millions! I told those people on Thessia we'd save them! 

The "dying by the millions!" line hurts way more and that's the version I got when in a romance. :/ Where's the hug, Bioware?!.....No, seriously, where is it?

Modifié par wickedgoodreed, 20 avril 2012 - 07:54 .

[IliyaMoroumetz]

If you want to see what a well written female character looks like, Femshep aside, look no further than Kreia from Knights of the Old Republic II. She was voiced by a Shakespearean actress and was far more layered as a character than you ever see in most games.

PMC65 wrote...

Hugs back! And thanks for your time on
discussing Garrus ... I appreciated your impression of him. Don't be
surprised if I ever call you for a little T perspective. ../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png

Sure.  I'm always happy to help.

Modifié par IliyaMoroumetz, 20 avril 2012 - 07:58 .

[recentio]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

I said it before, but the reason Shepard is so cold to Liara there is because, to my knowledge, romancing Liara does not factor into that scene at all. I'm serious. All that matters is if you paragon or renegade her.

Watch that scene again and this time pretend that Shepard isn't romancing Liara and it makes more sense and fits better.

It boggles my mind that Bioware didn't think they needed to make a variation of that scene for Liara romancers though. I can barely think of a scene that needs such a variation more, I mean jesus christ what Liara is going through and a Shep romancing her can't help her?

I don't think a romance special condition is needed. Many Shepards, regardless of romance, would hug her out of simple compassion at that moment.

[The Lightspeaker]

Ok people jese I get the message - I suck as an author because I shouldn't go looking for advice. Loud and clear. I'm just worried I'll totally screw something up.

I didn't want to derail the thread like I have done. Apologies, just forget it.

Modifié par The Lightspeaker, 20 avril 2012 - 08:12 .

[TheMarshal]

kumquats wrote...

No you won't, I'm having a deja-vu, because I wrote that already today. But why the hell not.
Stieg Larsson, created the best female lead character, in any book I've read, so far. This character isn't lacking or missing anything at all.

On the other hand, I do indeed feel like that a male author has a different style than a female author. 
But that's only my small opinion.

I'm guilty of having the predisposition that good (fanfic stories, at least) are written by female authors.    It might just be a stylistic preference of mine, though.

For the most part, I tend to write Alice and Liara (and their relationship) without taking into consideration that they're women.  Not that I think of them as men.  I simply don't take gender into account unless it's pertinent to the story.

[moreeman06]

wickedgoodreed wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

I agree I would have liked to see some type of romance specific dialogue or atleast a hug.  the speech still would have worked fine with one in there.  I just wanted something in there that says Liara I'm here for you.  As for the Shep is frazzled thing, if that's what BW was trying to get across they screwed it up the dialogue especially the speech is like a coach telling you to get up and keep going its devoid of any kind of closeness to Liara or any feeling that Shep him/herself is tired and falling apart as much as Liara is

Totally agree with this.

What's weird is that there is romance specific dialogue in the scene (at least, as far as I can figure that's what made the difference). It's just incredibly minor.

Not in a romance with Liara, I got: 
Liara:...Or was I so focused on the Catalyst that I ignored my own people?
Shepard: Liara, you had nothing to do with the attack on Thessia.
Liara: Nothing to do with it?! I told those people on Thessia we'd save them! 

In a romance with Liara: 
Liara:...Or was I so focused on the Catalyst that I ignored my own people?
Shepard: You'd never do that.
Liara: They're dying by the millions! I told those people on Thessia we'd save them! 

The "dying by the millions!" line hurts way more and that's the version I got when in a romance. :/ Where's the hug, Bioware?!.....No, seriously, where is it?

really i've never noticed that difference 3.5 playthroughs in and I'm still learning something new.  maybe i should have paid more attention in my Tali romance playthrough

[PMC65]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

Ok people jese I get it - I suck as an author because I shouldn't go looking for advice.

I didn't want to derail the thread like I have done. Apologies, just forget it.

No you don't. You did what a new and developing writer should do ... ask for input.

Every writer has their own process ... some talented authors had to become the character (work in a cannery when they wrote about it, etc) to write, others seek advise (a mystery writer uses his gal pal to get a woman's viewpoint) while others lock themselves in a room.

What you are doing is developing your own way to write ... your own process.

No one can tell you how it works for you. So keep asking (you can always PM me).

I reach out to others for seeds in my process, many authors do.

[Aristobulus500]

wickedgoodreed wrote...
Totally agree with this.

What's weird is that there is romance specific dialogue in the scene (at least, as far as I can figure that's what made the difference). It's just incredibly minor.

Not in a romance with Liara, I got: 
Liara:...Or was I so focused on the Catalyst that I ignored my own people?
Shepard: Liara, you had nothing to do with the attack on Thessia.
Liara: Nothing to do with it?! I told those people on Thessia we'd save them! 

In a romance with Liara: 
Liara:...Or was I so focused on the Catalyst that I ignored my own people?
Shepard: You'd never do that.
Liara: They're dying by the millions! I told those people on Thessia we'd save them! 

The "dying by the millions!" line hurts way more and that's the version I got when in a romance. :/ Where's the hug, Bioware?!.....No, seriously, where is it?

Wow. That's even more confusing. So they actually *did* think to make that scene different for Liara romancers...just not in any real significant way. It would've been easier to understand if things were just rushed and they forgot. But this? 

I will say that the romance lines make some sort of sense. Liara is letting herself reveal more of how distraught she is, because of how close she is to Shepard. Shepard, in turn, is more specific about "you'd never do that, Liara" because he knows her better. It's a more focused statement of understanding than the first version.

Still doesn't mean the scene is at all what it should've been.

[moreeman06]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

Ok people jese I get it - I suck as an author because I shouldn't go looking for advice.

I didn't want to derail the thread like I have done. Apologies, just forget it.

hey...hey there *paragon interrupt hug*  noone here meant to say that, I think they were saying that your writing was good enough on its own that they don't feel you need the outside perspective.  *looks at rest of thread*  see what you've done

TheMarshal wrote...

kumquats wrote...

No you won't, I'm having a deja-vu, because I wrote that already today. But why the hell not.
Stieg Larsson, created the best female lead character, in any book I've read, so far. This character isn't lacking or missing anything at all.

On the other hand, I do indeed feel like that a male author has a different style than a female author. 
But that's only my small opinion. 

I'm guilty of having the predisposition that good (fanfic stories, at least) are written by female authors.  [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/blushing.png[/smilie]  It might just be a stylistic preference of mine, though.

For the most part, I tend to write Alice and Liara (and their relationship) without taking into consideration that they're women.  Not that I think of them as men.  I simply don't take gender into account unless it's pertinent to the story.

 

True writing them as characters instead of genders is always good.  I haven't read your latest chapter yet I'll do that when i get home.  as for preferences I don't really mind who writes as long as its a good story.  although i do tend to notice that female writers focus more on the characters in my experience while male writers are more about the plot although neither group neglects one or the other

Edit: top

By:  5Hangt5ung  
http://5hangt5ung.de...-Soni-290263997

Modifié par moreeman06, 20 avril 2012 - 08:29 .

[Gterror2]

Dat feeling...Javik reccomended it...nasty stuff that one