56469 réponses à ce sujet

[PMC65]

Akernis wrote...

Sunnie22 wrote...
* I know some here will disagree with what I am about to say, however, according to the codex, dialog throgh the games and info presented in the novels, Liara is too young to enter the matron stage. Give her another 100 years and she will likely be at the point where she can transition into the Matron stage early.

We, or at least I, never disagreed with you that she cannot enter the Matron Stage this early, I actually support you on this one.
what was the issue last time was whether she or asari in general could have children before entering the Matron Stage.
On which point I believed we agreed to disagree 

One mention is in Drew's Mass Effect: Retribution Pg 36 ... "But Liselle was still young; it would be decades - or maybe even centuries - before she passed from the maiden stage of the asari life cycle into the childbearing years of matronhood."

And while I too believe that childbearing is tied to the matron stage only ... to each his own. After all, the story was being told by grandpa to a kid. Maybe he got things mixed up.

[The Lightspeaker]

And yet that exactly wording seems to support the "descriptive not prescriptive" and "trigger at any time" thing; given the vagueness over "decades or centuries".

Oh by the goddess I have GOT TO STOP getting involved in these discussions...I can't help it but it makes me miserable as hell.

Modifié par The Lightspeaker, 23 avril 2012 - 01:05 .

[Aristobulus500]

I think this is pretty ridiculous honestly. The codex and all might say one thing, but it wouldn't be the first time something happened for the sake of a writing convention or character growth/development, that contradicted the codex.

I mean, there's multiple talks with Liara about blue babies. I highly doubt she'd be seriously talking about it like that if it were literally impossible for her to ever have babies with Shep.

I would not be surprised, for example, assuming the ending DLC includes a happy ending, that it at least makes a mention of Liara/Shep having kids, codex be damned.

[rubynorman]

God, so many hater's topics out there. They make me crazy. I can't control myself and have to comment. Bad temper I know. Why do they keep doing that? I don't like some characters but I don't make those hater topic.
Need to cool down

[PMC65]

Lightspeaker,
 
As someone who believes in the matron only / not in Shepard's lifetime crowd, it's no big deal to me that others believe Liara can pop em' out as a maiden now for Shepard. We all get our happy from somewhere and I get for you part of that is your Shepard making blue babies with Liara ... OPA!

It's your Liara & Shepard love story ... go with what works for you and don't worry about how others see it.
 
Don't sweat the small stuff!

EDIT: Codex be dam5ed!

RubyN ... Yep. All the characters get roughed up. Hate sells. After liking two characters (Liara & Ash) that get hate threads all the time I just ignore them now. They just draw in the same posters who regurgitate the same BS.

Modifié par PMC65, 23 avril 2012 - 01:18 .

[IliyaMoroumetz]

Change of subject;

The pic at the top of the page is awesome.

Why is it awesome? Liara with murderous, red glowing eyes promising death, and worse, to anyone that gets in her way to saving Shepard and compare her to the meek and shy little scientist from ME1.

That, my friends, is a metamorphosis.

Modifié par IliyaMoroumetz, 23 avril 2012 - 01:15 .

[Aristobulus500]

rubynorman wrote...

God, so many hater's topics out there. They make me crazy. I can't control myself and have to comment. Bad temper I know. Why do they keep doing that? I don't like some characters but I don't make those hater topic.
Need to cool down

It's pretty pointless to argue with most of them, anyway. I promise you that most are not actually trying to find a decent debate and find out why people like Liara, and are not willing to change their minds at all. Moreover, many of them want to dislike Liara, for one reason or another, so you're even more at a disadvantage trying to change their mind or show them why they might be wrong about something, because straight up they are not interested in seeing another perspective.

If you notice you're arguing with someone who just outright wants to hate Liara, just give up and move on. It's only worth discussing it with people who have an open mind and are genuinely willing to change their opinions if the reasons they dislike Liara are disproven, or something.

[TheMarshal]

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

Change of subject;

The pic at the top of the page is awesome.

Why is it awesome? Liara with murderous, red glowing eyes promising death, and worse, to anyone that gets in her way to saving Shepard and compare her to the meek and shy little scientist from ME1.

That, my friends, is a metamorphosis.

The tear-stained face, the raw display of biotic power, the fact that she's wearing Cerberus colors, how completely destroyed Shepard's body is...  Phenomenal imagery!

[Aristobulus500]

My problem with that image...it's well done artistically, but it just doesn't make any sense. What in the hell happened to Liara? And Shepard, for that matter. But Liara is the one that went through the biggest change there. Almost nothing there makes sense for her character, and what's with the red glowing eyes?

It's barely even Liara anymore, and without a reason to understand why she's so different there, the picture sortof loses some of its' meaning on me. Because the Liara I've known in the games...I can't draw a connection between that Liara, and the one in the picture. It's not the same as say, the one of Liara holding Shepard's broken body after the end of ME3, that I think Neehs did, because that one is clearly the same Liara and you can mentally make a connection of how that scene came to be.

This metamorphosis one is just nonsensical.

[The Star Treker]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

kumquats wrote...
I wouldn't say I'm invested into ME, as much as I am invested into Star Trek. Star Trek is my bible and my first Sci-Fi love. And your first love is always something special.
But I always felt at home in the ME Universe.

The best thing for me is still, romancing an and commanding my own Crew.

I still need a fanfiction crossover between Star Trek and ME, featuring Liara. The thought alone of EDI meeting Data, just gave me an epic nerdgasm. I should go.

I've always liked Star Trek, for many of the same reasons I like ME. Especially TNG. I really appreciated that Picard would tend towards trying to take a diplomatic approach, and it wasn't just all violence all the time. As well, aliens were, for the most part, taken seriously as characters. Especially given the limitations of the technology they had to make the show with.

But I haven't seen a ton of episodes, only saw what came on TV and what my parents watched, when I was a kid. I just never got around to watching the entire series, though I mean to one day.

But as a Star Trek fan, you can definitely see all the inspirations ME took from it, right?

Also, as you say, one thing ME does that Star Trek never really could, was a serious romance with an alien. That's just such a unique concept that it was a reason I got into ME, I wanted to see how that'd play out. I think if Star Trek had better tech they might've attempted many of the things ME does, even that, but they didn't. And since Star Trek, most media just use aliens as reskinned monsters and are cannon fodder for heroic human characters to shoot at.

At best, they've been comic relief side characters that are not strong enough to stand on their own. ME really did something special by having the aliens be every bit as respectable and serious strong characters as humans are. That they went the extra mile and put in honest attempts at romance is a testament to that.

But, in the end, I don't think it's really fair to compare Star Trek and ME, because of the time/technology difference in the two. ME would not be what it is now, if Star Trek hadn't existed, and I think if Star Trek came around today, Roddenberry and co. would've tried many of the things ME does. They simply lacked the tech.

If it wasn't for me being invested into Star Trek then I probably never been invested into Mass Effect. I wouldn't say Star Trek is my bible, just where I got my philosophy and morality from and same thing with Stargate, any science fiction, Superman or any of my favorite comic book superheroes. Star Trek is my first Sci-Fi love too and there is a lot of Trek in ME.

I think Star Trek have some good love chemistry with characters, maybe not as good as ME. I liked there were some good love chemistry between Trip Tucker and Sub-Commander T'Pol and a little with Captain Archer (Scott Bakula from Quantum Leap) on Enterprise. I kind of liked there were chemistry between Commander Will Riker and Councilor Deanna Troi and with Lieutenant Commander Worf.

However I hated that Worf ended up with Jadzia Dax on Deep Space Nine because I just didn't see the chemistry. I liked when Doctor Julian Bashir was infatuated with her but I really liked when Julian ended up with Ezri Dax. I even think Quark (my favorite Ferengi, which owned the bar on DS9) had a good chemistry with an alien woman, not sure if it was with that Klingon woman.

However I think nothing is good as the love chemistry in ME (Male/Fem Shep, Liara, Tali, Miranda, Garrus or Thane) or Superman (him and Lois Lane).

Modifié par The_Star_Treker, 23 avril 2012 - 01:44 .

[The Lightspeaker]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

I think this is pretty ridiculous honestly.

The biggest thing is that everything is vague and contradictory to be honest; you can read it one way or another. Its an absolutely ridiculous free-for-all. Until I came on here I literally didn't even consider the notion that it might not be possible for any adult asari to not have kids; because of the way I read into the evidence. The lack of any formal explanation mean it's literally like another version of the ending's "lots of speculation for everyone", but arguably even more depressing in its consequences.

Hell, the first time I saw anyone even arguing it it made me want to slit my damn wrists. It's an awful discussion to have and it seems to come up all the bloody time.


@PMC65: I appreciate that, but it doesn't quite work that simply. Neither side is conclusive so it leaves doubts with regard to what the interpretation is intended to be. And in light of that ending it hurts a lot, since the assumption is to believe the worst.


And so now that I'm thoroughly miserable I'm going to go see what drink I have in.

[TheMarshal]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

My problem with that image...it's well done artistically, but it just doesn't make any sense. What in the hell happened to Liara? And Shepard, for that matter. But Liara is the one that went through the biggest change there. Almost nothing there makes sense for her character, and what's with the red glowing eyes?

It's barely even Liara anymore, and without a reason to understand why she's so different there, the picture sortof loses some of its' meaning on me. Because the Liara I've known in the games...I can't draw a connection between that Liara, and the one in the picture. It's not the same as say, the one of Liara holding Shepard's broken body after the end of ME3, that I think Neehs did, because that one is clearly the same Liara and you can mentally make a connection of how that scene came to be.

This metamorphosis one is just nonsensical.

It's supposed to be a re-imagining of the events of Redemption, with Liara actually recovering Shepard's body instead of a casket (which, let's be honest, was really just a way of avoiding having to identify Shepard as a man or woman).  I don't think it's meant to be an accurate portrayal of what happened so much as an artistic representation.  Liara donning Cerberus attire shows that she's had to work with Cerberus to get that far.  The red eyes represent the depth of her grief.

[Aristobulus500]

The Lightspeaker wrote...
And so now that I'm thoroughly miserable I'm going to go see what drink I have in.

'Ey man you get depressed so easily! You need to drop drowning your tears in drink and take a page from my (many) Liara avs and hit up some :420:

[rubynorman]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

rubynorman wrote...

God, so many hater's topics out there. They make me crazy. I can't control myself and have to comment. Bad temper I know. Why do they keep doing that? I don't like some characters but I don't make those hater topic.
Need to cool down

It's pretty pointless to argue with most of them, anyway. I promise you that most are not actually trying to find a decent debate and find out why people like Liara, and are not willing to change their minds at all. Moreover, many of them want to dislike Liara, for one reason or another, so you're even more at a disadvantage trying to change their mind or show them why they might be wrong about something, because straight up they are not interested in seeing another perspective.

If you notice you're arguing with someone who just outright wants to hate Liara, just give up and move on. It's only worth discussing it with people who have an open mind and are genuinely willing to change their opinions if the reasons they dislike Liara are disproven, or something.

I know but ... but...
Seeing a topic full of haters and ridiculous reasons to hate Liara is killing me.
Ok just try to leave one polite comment for each hater's topic.

The top picture: Liara's crying, that's why her eyes are red

Modifié par rubynorman, 23 avril 2012 - 01:43 .

[The Lightspeaker]

Don't worry about it. I'm usually miserable about five nights a week and occassionally something completely minor and random triggers it into full-on depression. It happens. Is just my life.


Anyway, to distract from that; have a picture I took today when restarting ME2:

Modifié par The Lightspeaker, 23 avril 2012 - 01:44 .

[Aristobulus500]

rubynorman wrote...
I know but ... but...
Seeing a topic full of haters and ridiculous reasons to hate Liara is killing me.
Ok just try to leave one polite comment for each hater's topic.

Tell them, if they are serious about wanting to know why people like Liara, and aren't just wanking themselves off to how good it feels to hate a character, to come here, to this thread, and address us for an honest discussion.

They either take you up on your offer and maybe change their minds, or you can write them off as someone who just wants to hate her, truth and facts be damned.

[Akernis]

I never liked that renegade picture either, it is phenomenally well done artistically as said, but it does not ring true for me, I can't really see the loving tender Liara I so care about in that picture.
Some pople like Liara as a paragade others wish she would go all out renegade, and I am fine with that but however confident and self-assured she may well have become I will always see her as a compasionate paragon.
As such I just don't recognise her as truly Liara.

Modifié par Akernis, 23 avril 2012 - 01:47 .

[The Lightspeaker]

Yeah, I must admit whilst I like the artistry and symbolism in that image it doesn't really feel like Liara.

Although maybe a little, I can see her being totally pissed off about Shepard's body.

[Aristobulus500]

Has there ever been a full page of nothing but Liara avatar'd posters in this thread?

[Akernis]

Appopos of nothing has anyone seen Kilshrek or Jlb these last few days? 

[moreeman06]

I've seen kil on the PETA page for a bit but that's all, I've mostly been trying to get my last fic done and doing some actual work for school

[Sunnie]

Akernis wrote...

Appopos of nothing has anyone seen Kilshrek or Jlb these last few days? 

jlb has been playing around with her new gaming PC, she's still around just sort of busy.

[Akernis]

Okay, thanks

[Brooks Mac]

@The Lightspeaker
Thanks and so so true! You make it so clear that it really does happen all the time. My only issue is that I find it very hard to believe that one person is capable of writing a blog that is that in depth everyday! Really good! Thanks!