56469 réponses à ce sujet

[Neeh]

Why the sudden focus on Liara hate? If people dislike something, let 'em. No matter their reasoning.
It's their problem, why make it your own? There's alot of sillyness around, you'd go crazy if you let it all affect you.

Just ignore it.

[Aristobulus500]

kumquats wrote...
Of course there is chemistry. You create one half of that couple. If you didn't feel like Liara was a good choice for your Shepard, you wouldn't be here now.
Every Shepard is different, that's a huge advantage. You can create the chemistry.

The thing you say about Troi, is the exact same thing, I felt about Liara in ME1. Liara doesn't feel alien at all. Why do you think people see Liara as a stalker? Because Liara gets judged by human standards and they completly dismiss the fact, that asari are a very open race.
When Liara says in the romance scene: She respects your privacy, unlike me....
Asari share their space on starships, would it be so strange to assume that they really don't understand the concept of personal space and privacy?
We can speculate about that, because BW doesn't give any answers.

People never use human standards on Wrex, because he doesn't look like a blue human. Only ME3, Liara becomes more alien .
I feel like BW left me alone and I have to figure out everything on my own. Or I'm just overthinking.

(Of course ST is full of humanoid species. The actors are humans after all. )^^

Liara and the Asari both become more actually alien as the series progresses, and the more you talk to them. Sure, if you ignore Liara every chance you get and don't talk to her in ME1, for example, you might think the Asari are just blue women, but that is just not the truth of the issue. They are definitely more than that, but you have to bother talking to Liara to find that out.

The people that call Liara a stalker, aren't the types to really talk to her. They make up their minds early on and look for reasons to prove that first impression right, rather than honestly consider what they're shown and told in the games and dialogue. They saw Asari dancing in Choril's Den and decided then and there that Asari were nothing more than blue versions of Kirk's green alien women, and that was it. They wouldn't hear anything else the game had to say about Asari.

The Asari actually being alien comes from how fleshed out their culture is, and you don't really learn about that until you talk to Liara. That's why I say it can be easy to miss, especially if decide you don't want to talk to Liara. So, in comparison to Star Trek - and honest question, since as I've said before, I haven't actually seen as much of Star Trek as I'd like. How fleshed out is Troi's race? It's culture? And what about it is actually alien and different from humans, to make them feel like aliens, and not just say, mutants like x-men/humans with mental powers?

Because you learn quite a bit about Asari that is just inhuman, and is related to the powers they have and such, but is reflected throughout their culture and general attitudes - everything about them has a relation. From their natural biotic ability, to being mono gendered, to using other species for reproduction - that all stems from, or has an effect on, their culture. It's hard to just call them blue women after you learn so much about them that is different from humanity.

Hell, you even mention Asari have different concepts of privacy and personal space. Although Liara herself may or may not share that mindset with other Asari - EDI does specifically mention she thinks Liara has become a more private person since becoming the shadow broker. And I think you're reading too much into Liara's comment, she's pretty much joking, by the tone of her voice, and by that point in her relationship with Shep, they are very close to the point where Shep shouldn't really be bothered by her just coming in like that. And I mean, it's worth pointing out that before that scene, she knocks and makes sure Shep is okay with her coming in. Although Liara herself has said she differs from other Asari in some ways, that could just be another way she does.

When you say BW doesn't give any answers...I may agree, but it depends. What questions do you feel BW didn't answer that they should've?

[Akernis]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
 Although Liara herself has said she differs from other Asari in some ways, that could just be another way she does.

Oh? can you recall when she does that, I agree that she does I just don't remeber her saying that.

[Aristobulus500]

Pretty sure it's back in ME1, though she's talking about how other Asari tend to become strippers/dancers/mercs during their maiden years.

By the way, does anyone here play ME3 on the pc and would like to play multiplayer with me sometime? Could use more people to play with, pubs are very erratic and hard to finish a game with. My Origin ID is Aristobulus, if anyone is up for it.

Modifié par Aristobulus500, 23 avril 2012 - 05:18 .

[Arcataye]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Honestly, it does speak to how powerful ME is. I think it's important that people like you actually have the courage to bring this issues up, too, because that's how videogames might ever make the jump to being accepted like books and films are - when people realize the sheer amount of emotions they can pull out of people. People generally don't want to believe that a game can affect them like that, even if they *are*, so they need to be confronted with it, because otherwise it just keeps getting downplayed and people - well, they make up all this "window dressing" for it, as you described it. They do that because they just don't want to admit - to themselves or others - that they have been so deeply affected by a videogame.

I wonder how long will it take that games, not all of them but the story based, are acknowledged as something more
than "just games". I really don't understand why won't some big guy at EA/Bioware see what they've done. I mean, many people say Mass Effect is the Star Wars of this generation. That's a huge thing to even get some say that. How can't they see how invested their fans are? I'll go with a guess that they've never played the series themselves and for them it's just another cash cow.
They should read Lightspeaker's blog.

Aristobulus500 wrote...
Liara and the Asari both become more actually alien as the series progresses, and the more you talk to them. Sure, if you ignore Liara  every chance you get and don't talk to her in ME1, for example, you might think the Asari are just blue women, but that is just not the truth of the issue. They are definitely more than that, but you have to bother talking to Liara to find that out.

Yeah, some big story moments must be weird for people who won't talk to all characters, they won't understand the whole story. I can't really get why wouldn't they talk to everyone if they love the game and the universe.
I really disliked that reporter on my ship, but I still visited her quite frequently only to see if she had something to tell me.
Well she never did, but just in case. <_<

Modifié par Arcataye, 23 avril 2012 - 05:53 .

[The Lightspeaker]

TheMarshal wrote...

Another day, another Liara-hate thread created. Don't people have anything better to do with their time?

Evidently not, sod them.

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Seriously - ask them to describe
Liara sometime, without using her name, and you're very likely to get a
description of a character that is very much not Liara. They've created this character to hate in their minds, and attached Liara's name to it.

Sounds about right. People focus on what they want to focus on. *shrug*

Tyranniac wrote...

So there's a lot of Liara hostility outside this thread, is there?

I'll... just stay here, where it's safe. Yes. That seems like the best cause of action.

I think I look at the rest of the forum like...once a week now. That wasn't originally because of the Liara thing, more because of the pro-ending people being tiresome with the "YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!" angle. But either way, just another reason not to bother with elsewhere.


I think Liara bothers people because regardless of what you do she is in love with Shepard. You don't have to return that love, but she cares about Shepard regardless. People don't feel comfortable about that, even though it's a very "real" thing to happen.

Regardless they can all just bugger off.

[Robhuzz]

Akernis wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...
 Although Liara herself has said she differs from other Asari in some ways, that could just be another way she does.

Oh? can you recall when she does that, I agree that she does I just don't remeber her saying that.

I'd like to know as well. I know of no situation in which Liara says she differs from other Asari. While it's obvious she's not like regular Asari, I don't recall her saying it outright or even deliberately hinting towards it.

[TheMarshal]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

I think I look at the rest of the forum like...once a week now. That wasn't originally because of the Liara thing, more because of the pro-ending people being tiresome with the "YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!" angle. But either way, just another reason not to bother with elsewhere.

I think Liara bothers people because regardless of what you do she is in love with Shepard. You don't have to return that love, but she cares about Shepard regardless. People don't feel comfortable about that, even though it's a very "real" thing to happen.

Regardless they can all just bugger off.

Beyond that, I think the people who don't like her dislike that you can't "hate" her, that she's by default your friend.  Which got me to thinking is there anyone in the series who you can outright hate in-game?  I mean in terms of squadmates?  You can choose to not help the ME2 squad with their LMs, say a few snide remarks to the Cerberus crew, but that's about it as far as I can tell.  So that hardly makes Liara unique in this regard.  It's really just her plot importance that they're disagreeing with.

Modifié par TheMarshal, 23 avril 2012 - 06:07 .

[moreeman06]

Akernis wrote...

Erenbe wrote...
Oh but don't you see? That was her plan all along. Siding with Cerberus in ME2 was just the start. Bring Shep back, let Shep do all the footwork. Deal with this fake attack on Hagalaz and pretend to be chased by Cerberus because come on....it has to be fake! In the end, she was hoping that Shep would not defeat the reapers so that she can meld with them and become suuuuper powerful. Then she would continue to rule the galaxy with TIM.

This has as many plotholes as the actual ending of ME3 but who cares. 

Edit: Ah silly me...it has to be "mind-rape the reapers" because she doesn't just simply meld...nooo! That would be too easy!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry .

@ruby: It will likely take a good deal of time before I get to that scene as I don't do the chapters in chronological order and I only in the progress of writing the first one.

wait your writing something.... how did i miss that

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Pretty sure it's back in ME1, though she's talking about how other Asari tend to become strippers/dancers/mercs during their maiden years.

By the way, does anyone here play ME3 on the pc and would like to play multiplayer with me sometime? Could use more people to play with, pubs are very erratic and hard to finish a game with. My Origin ID is Aristobulus, if anyone is up for it.

 

you can add me on origin if you'd like my tag is the same as in here (moreeman06)  I'm going to be at school almost all day but I'll see you on sometime

[DOsquareZER]

"Rawr i hate this char because i dont have the option to kill them!"
....*backs away slowly from the hate threads* issues. a whole lot of issues.

[TheMarshal]

doozer12 wrote...

"Rawr i hate this char because i dont have the option to kill them!"
....*backs away slowly from the hate threads* issues. a whole lot of issues.

I guess they want the option to not have certain people on their squad?  I mean, I can see the appeal, and it works alright with games like DA2 (I didn't grab Fenris), with a cast as huge as the ME series has, it would be murder on the writers.

[Aristobulus500]

The Lightspeaker wrote...
I think I look at the rest of the forum like...once a week now. That wasn't originally because of the Liara thing, more because of the pro-ending people being tiresome with the "YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!" angle. But either way, just another reason not to bother with elsewhere.


I think Liara bothers people because regardless of what you do she is in love with Shepard. You don't have to return that love, but she cares about Shepard regardless. People don't feel comfortable about that, even though it's a very "real" thing to happen.

Regardless they can all just bugger off.

Honestly, I've tried looking at the rest of the forum, and it bugs me because so much of the rest, from what I've seen, is amazingly hostile and just angry and depressing. Peopel seem to be more chill and open and friendly here, it's like an oasis in a desert of hostility.

[Akernis]

moreeman06 wrote...

Akernis wrote...

@ruby: It will likely take a good deal of time before I get to that scene as I don't do the chapters in chronological order and I only in the progress of writing the first one.

wait your writing something.... how did i miss that

Because I have not mentioned it before . I am working on a story bout how I would like the ending, and hopefully more afterwards. Liara is not the focus but as my favourite and LI she does get a deal screentime, particularly later.
I am between a third and halfway through the first chapter.

[adneate]

doozer12 wrote...
"Rawr i hate this char because i dont have the option to kill them!"
....*backs away slowly from the hate threads* issues. a whole lot of issues.

Never known the touch of a woman issues or would drive 500 miles to harass someone while wearing diapers issues? Or is it more of a go into a bell tower with a high powered rifle issue?

[polor89]

@ruby: It will likely take a good deal of time before I get to that scene as I don't do the chapters in chronological order and I only in the progress of writing the first one.[/quote]

wait your writing something.... how did i miss that
[/quote]
Because I have not mentioned it before . I am working on a story bout how I would like the ending, and hopefully more afterwards. Liara is not the focus but as my favourite and LI she does get a deal screentime, particularly later.
I am between a third and halfway through the first chapter.[/quote]

Make sure to send it to bioware:D;)

[DOsquareZER]

TheMarshal wrote...

doozer12 wrote...

"Rawr i hate this char because i dont have the option to kill them!"
....*backs away slowly from the hate threads* issues. a whole lot of issues.

I guess they want the option to not have certain people on their squad?  I mean, I can see the appeal, and it works alright with games like DA2 (I didn't grab Fenris), with a cast as huge as the ME series has, it would be murder on the writers.

I come from an occupation where you don't have a choice who you get stuck with, you just make it work.  Bellyaching jsut gets you into more trouble then its worth. 
But I guess if they want the option.  Give it to them.  Take Liara out of the squad - see what happens.  Story stalls.  But hey you got rid of liara - its alll good. You just foolishly removed a major potential asset - but it doesnt matter because you didnt like them.
But then i guess BW could (should?) have done something with Liara on the equivlent of other squadmates - getting her killed and replaced by some other char in ME3.  The conclusion wouldnt be near as valuable (like losing squadmembers in ME2 isn't really helpful to ME3 - but there were work-arounds) but seeing Liara is sort of a key to the plot with her prothean knowledge, youd be losing a huge asset.  I guess she could be replaced by another  Asari (not as experienced in the protheans) scholar that doesn't trust you but wearily exchanges information with you (end of the world and all that) but in the end betrays you (indoctrination, thessia ordered a hit, on TIM's payroll, etc) and costs you another squadmember or osmething or deciphers the crucible plans wrong and costs you in the end.  Or feron, maybe..ionno.  Still in the end your down a squadie on the normandy and half those shadow broker things Liara tosses your way wouldn't exist in a PT without her.

adneate wrote...
Never
known the touch of a woman issues or would drive 500 miles to harass
someone while wearing diapers issues? Or is it more of a go into a bell
tower with a high powered rifle issue?

Theyre not ballsy (all bark no bite) enough for the gun in the belltower method.  So i guess actively driving for a cause is out as well, means getting off their ass and doing something besides complain/whine.  Guess that leaves us with touch of woman issue? ... or maybe something else.

Modifié par doozer12, 23 avril 2012 - 06:59 .

[Luxure]

Oh yeah, thanks for talking about Liara haters in Liara's thread. You made me curious and I just had to see for myself.
https://encrypted-tb..._UFCE3qb4Pvk7_b
Just sad. Sad, sad, very sad people. They're unbelievable. Hehe... anyway. Some love for the gorgeous blueberry.



by pandoxitty

[Tyranniac]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

I think Liara bothers people because regardless of what you do she is in love with Shepard. You don't have to return that love, but she cares about Shepard regardless. People don't feel comfortable about that, even though it's a very "real" thing to happen.

Regardless they can all just bugger off.

I really like that they decided to do this, it is indeed a very real thing and an interesting thing to include.

TheMarshal wrote...


Beyond that, I think the people who don't like her dislike that you can't "hate" her, that she's by default your friend.  Which got me to thinking is there anyone in the series who you can outright hate in-game?  I mean in terms of squadmates?  You can choose to not help the ME2 squad with their LMs, say a few snide remarks to the Cerberus crew, but that's about it as far as I can tell.  So that hardly makes Liara unique in this regard.  It's really just her plot importance that they're disagreeing with.

 

I don't really think there is any squadmember that Shepard can hate. Dislike, certainly, but Shepard always shows a certain degree of respect anyway I think. (Although I don't play much renegade so I don't know what ME3's autodialogue is like for a renegade.)

[Zwei133]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

The Lightspeaker wrote...
I think I look at the rest of the forum like...once a week now. That wasn't originally because of the Liara thing, more because of the pro-ending people being tiresome with the "YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!" angle. But either way, just another reason not to bother with elsewhere.


I think Liara bothers people because regardless of what you do she is in love with Shepard. You don't have to return that love, but she cares about Shepard regardless. People don't feel comfortable about that, even though it's a very "real" thing to happen.

Regardless they can all just bugger off.

Honestly, I've tried looking at the rest of the forum, and it bugs me because so much of the rest, from what I've seen, is amazingly hostile and just angry and depressing. Peopel seem to be more chill and open and friendly here, it's like an oasis in a desert of hostility.

I personally only read a handful of threads on BSN. I saw a comment on a vid made by Archengeia that stated BSN was only a small step above 4chan. At first I didn't get it... then I started looking around and realized that this statement is not without merit. I think I'll stick to the few threads I like (such as this one).

[Y3Y00]

Neeh wrote...

Why the sudden focus on Liara hate? If people dislike something, let 'em. No matter their reasoning.
It's their problem, why make it your own? There's alot of sillyness around, you'd go crazy if you let it all affect you.

Just ignore it.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I myself see it as a good thing... If you'd see things from my perspective, you'd understand. *not making an deep or twisted allusions, standard thinking stuff.*

[Robhuzz]

TheMarshal wrote...

doozer12 wrote...

"Rawr i hate this char because i dont have the option to kill them!"
....*backs away slowly from the hate threads* issues. a whole lot of issues.

I guess they want the option to not have certain people on their squad?  I mean, I can see the appeal, and it works alright with games like DA2 (I didn't grab Fenris), with a cast as huge as the ME series has, it would be murder on the writers.

I agree, in the DA universe where every game has an entirely new protatognist and different (apart from Anders) companions, it's possible to allow the player to choose not to have certain people on the squad. In ME, this is just plain impossible due to the amount of squadmembers that all have varying importance to the plot. And even though you could choose not to bring Garrus aboard in ME1, the plot of ME2 demands that people pick him up regardless. I'm kind of happy they went this route, it makes writing a bit easier. Too bad they still botched the ending:mellow:

[Boris_Ramirez]

Dang, been wondering what all this talk about Liara hate was about.Then I left the safety of this thread and found a ton of "why is Liara so great threads"

[TheMarshal]

Robhuzz wrote...

I agree, in the DA universe where every game has an entirely new protatognist and different (apart from Anders) companions, it's possible to allow the player to choose not to have certain people on the squad. In ME, this is just plain impossible due to the amount of squadmembers that all have varying importance to the plot. And even though you could choose not to bring Garrus aboard in ME1, the plot of ME2 demands that people pick him up regardless. I'm kind of happy they went this route, it makes writing a bit easier. Too bad they still botched the ending:mellow:

That makes me wonder how Mass Effect would have been different if each game in the series featured different squadmates.  Like if each ME1 character got the Wrex treatment in ME2, and so on.  Of course, including romances really throws off that idea, 'cause people are going to want their love interest close by all the time.  But I would have been pleased to have Liara as the Shadow Broker who I could go visit whenever I wanted to.  And I know some Miranda fans would like to see her as The Illusive Woman.  But who knows?

[The Lightspeaker]

Boris_Ramirez wrote...

Dang, been wondering what all this talk about Liara hate was about.Then I left the safety of this thread and found a ton of "why is Liara so great threads"

Yeah, people are pretty much bitter and nasty in a lot of other threads. Very impolite and aggressive. Don't venture out from here without some thick flameproof armour is my advice.


Edit: Of COURSE that WOULD be top. <_<

Anyway, have a Liara/Shep moment:

Modifié par The Lightspeaker, 23 avril 2012 - 08:11 .

[Gterror2]

Ah, long time ive seen her ME1 face, so cute and innocent.