56469 réponses à ce sujet

[adneate]

Akernis wrote...
What do you mean by sensible? in order to save military resources or ...?

Anything you'd commit at that point wouldn't have any effect on the situation back on Thessia, you'd just be throwing away ships and soldiers. There's a point in any battle where even if you committed everything you have in reserve you still wouldn't turn the situation around, once Reaper capital ships are on Thessia that point has been reached.

Thessian ground forces are either wiped out or in full retreat, air superiority is gone and the civilian populace is in an all out panic. You could go all in and it probably wouldn't change a thing. Even the Turians makes the same calculation towards the end of the game, leaving Palaven to it's own devices to save their forces for the crucible.

[Wulfram]

Liara sounds pretty distraught about Palaven too.  Just a bit better at blocking it out.  To an extent, I think her reaction after Thessia was coming anyway - she's not someone who can easily deal with the sort of losses that are going on.

I also think a sense of personal responsibility is part of it. 

Firstly, she was the one who stopped the Asari unit from retreating, on the promise that this would save Thessia.  But they all died and the mission failed.  So she feels responsible for their deaths

Secondly, she's Asari and she feels she hasn't done enough for them.  Shepard, Garrus, Tali, Legion - they all went home to their people, she didn't.  During the war, she's spent her time helping rally support for Palaven and Earth, and using her network to help with the crucible, and assumed her people would be OK.

Which leads me to another issue - there's a trace of Asari arrogance or complacency in there.  Other worlds may fall or suffer violence, but Thessia is pristine and inviolate.  So she's not mentally prepared for it.

Modifié par Wulfram, 24 avril 2012 - 05:49 .

[Zwei133]

Wulfram wrote...

Liara sounds pretty distraught about Palaven too.  Just a bit better at blocking it out.  To an extent, I think her reaction after Thessia was coming anyway - she's not someone who can easily deal with the sort of losses that are going on.

I also think a sense of personal responsibility is part of it. 

Firstly, she was the one who stopped the Asari unit from retreating, on the promise that this would save Thessia.  But they all died and the mission failed.  So she feels responsible for their deaths

Secondly, she's Asari and she feels she hasn't done enough for them.  Shepard, Garrus, Tali, Legion - they all went home to their people, she didn't.  During the war, she's spent her time helping rally support for Palaven and Earth, and using her network to help with the crucible, and assumed her people would be OK.

Which leads me to another issue - there's a trace of Asari arrogance or complacency in there.  Other worlds may fall or suffer violence, but Thessia is pristine and inviolate.  So she's not mentally prepared for it.

This.

@Tyranniac: I love the little blue children picture!

[Akernis]

The Lightspeaker wrote...
I can relate to that. I've often tried to be the "antihero" type in games that allow it and whenever I do I just can't stick with it. It doesn't work for me. In games where I'm flat out the villain I'm ok; but the antihero thing just doesn't feel comfortable.

Same here. I can easily play and enjoy being an evil character when the point is to be evil, I have no problems playing a dark side charcter in Star wars games and the Dark Eldar are easily my favourites in my hoppy of warhammer 40k.
But I cannot be a jerk or a renegade who executes people or beat them up for no aparent reason if they do not derseves it when I am playing a character who is suppossed to help people. 
I can remember when I had just gotten the game, I was annoyed that I could not be evil like in Kotor, then I began playing and in all my dozens of playthroughs in the various games I have only been ranegede once and only in ME1, and never for example shot Shiala. 
Sure taking renegade options that fits but not full-blown renegade. 

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

waht is the species most large in the Galaxy ?

counting the Homeworld and the colonies .

[Sunnie]

FRANCESCO84Inn wrote...

this is new work from @Neehs, i watch this today.

is so hot

snip

Actually, it was posted some days ago and then requoted what seems like 100s of times. And then a large discussion of tasteful nudity ensued with the immediate repost of that liara midriff pic.

While I love this pic, it's really NSFW we really don't need to requote it another 50 times.

[Erenbe]

Ajosraa wrote...
Is it ever stated anywhere how many Humans, or Asari are left on their homeworlds by the end of the game? Or how long they will last?

I think I heard an estimate that the entire Earth could face depopulation by the Reapers within 10 years. Estimates for the length of ME3 I belive is something between 6 months to Maybe a year.

That means that basicly a little more then 1 billion Humans would have been killed/harvested on Earth in a year, if you use the 10 year estimate to approximate the rate by assuming a 1/10 Earth population decline each year.

There were 11.5 (estimate off top of my head) billion people on Earth at the opening of ME3, and around 6.5 billion Asari on Their home planet of Thessia.

If Thessia's population declined by 1/10 a year, then after ME3 There would be about 0.65 billion Asari dead/harvested. Thats using a relative rate. If Thessia had the same absolute rate of extermination as Earth (1.15 billion a year exactly) then Thessia would face depopulation in just under 6 years.

It looks grim...But it does at least look like a large chunk of Asari on Thessia would still be alive by the time Shepard gets the Crucible to fire. Though It could be about half of the population or even less that survives. Ouchy.

PS: I think that this experience will scar the Asari and could potentially cause a rethinking of their policy of being "light on war". This may act to push some of the Asari to a more militant mindset imo. But thats just a thought I got atm while thinking about a Post- Reaper invasion Thessia.

Weren't there some numbers thrown around in the game trailer? "We lost 2 millions the first day...7 millions the week after" or something like that? That might be a good estimate for the total casualties if you extrapolate that to the 6months/1 year timespan of the game? Just a thought 

[Ajosraa]

adneate wrote...

Akernis wrote...
What do you mean by sensible? in order to save military resources or ...?

Anything you'd commit at that point wouldn't have any effect on the situation back on Thessia, you'd just be throwing away ships and soldiers. There's a point in any battle where even if you committed everything you have in reserve you still wouldn't turn the situation around, once Reaper capital ships are on Thessia that point has been reached.

Thessian ground forces are either wiped out or in full retreat, air superiority is gone and the civilian populace is in an all out panic. You could go all in and it probably wouldn't change a thing. Even the Turians makes the same calculation towards the end of the game, leaving Palaven to it's own devices to save their forces for the crucible.

Sounds like all they could hope for is to buy more time for the Crucible deployment. A "Scorched Earth" policy of "Biomass Denial" probably wouldent help either, even if it would deny the Reapers more ground troops. And you would be hurting yourself more then you could take.

Modifié par Ajosraa, 24 avril 2012 - 05:58 .

[Akernis]

Sunnie22 wrote...
I think the term "Lost" is being used to broadly when describing Thessia's situation.
 The population was estimated at 5.5 billion before the invasion, and if 400 million were lost, that's still 5.1 billion surviving. The planet and its population are hardly "lost". There's going to be a lot of severe infrastructure damage, and will sustain losses attributed to that, but the Asari are very intelligent and capable of quickly rebuilding their infrastructure and regaining control in short order.

Thank you, that was what I meant.

[Tyranniac]

Zwei133 wrote...

@Tyranniac: I love the little blue children picture!

By LiveAndLoveArt: 
http://browse.devian...oveart#/d4u1qzg 

Figured I didn't have to post who made it since it's been here several times before but best to make sure due credit is given.

And yes, it is a great picture.

[Akernis]

FRANCESCO84Inn wrote...

waht is the species most large in the Galaxy ?

counting the Homeworld and the colonies .

The asari would be my guess. Though from what we see in the game it would be humans. We see way more humans around than any other species.

[TheMarshal]

Erenbe wrote...

Weren't there some numbers thrown around in the game trailer? "We lost 2 millions the first day...7 millions the week after" or something like that? That might be a good estimate for the total casualties if you extrapolate that to the 6months/1 year timespan of the game? Just a thought 

The casualty rate would drop once the major population centers had been decimated.  People disperse, groups are smaller and less centralized, deaths would drop to the thousands per day instead of millions.

[Mr.House]

Wulfram wrote...

Liara sounds pretty distraught about Palaven too.  Just a bit better at blocking it out.  To an extent, I think her reaction after Thessia was coming anyway - she's not someone who can easily deal with the sort of losses that are going on.

I also think a sense of personal responsibility is part of it. 

Firstly, she was the one who stopped the Asari unit from retreating, on the promise that this would save Thessia.  But they all died and the mission failed.  So she feels responsible for their deaths

Secondly, she's Asari and she feels she hasn't done enough for them.  Shepard, Garrus, Tali, Legion - they all went home to their people, she didn't.  During the war, she's spent her time helping rally support for Palaven and Earth, and using her network to help with the crucible, and assumed her people would be OK.

Which leads me to another issue - there's a trace of Asari arrogance or complacency in there.  Other worlds may fall or suffer violence, but Thessia is pristine and inviolate.  So she's not mentally prepared for it.

Pretty much this. Also I always took "lost" being the same way as it is for Earth and Kar'Shan. There is still a resistance but the Reapers are in full power in those three systems and the only way to retake those three systems would be when Shepard andt he fleet is ready. Palavan has not fell yet simply because of the krogans.

Also Liara just found out everything she knew was a lie, that asari culture was a lie and her own mother strung her like a string. Also Liara has always been senstive, she is not hardcore like Garrus or Wrex who hide their emotion.

Modifié par Mr.House, 24 avril 2012 - 06:04 .

[Ajosraa]

Erenbe wrote...

Ajosraa wrote...
Is it ever stated anywhere how many Humans, or Asari are left on their homeworlds by the end of the game? Or how long they will last?

I think I heard an estimate that the entire Earth could face depopulation by the Reapers within 10 years. Estimates for the length of ME3 I belive is something between 6 months to Maybe a year.

That means that basicly a little more then 1 billion Humans would have been killed/harvested on Earth in a year, if you use the 10 year estimate to approximate the rate by assuming a 1/10 Earth population decline each year.

There were 11.5 (estimate off top of my head) billion people on Earth at the opening of ME3, and around 6.5 billion Asari on Their home planet of Thessia.

If Thessia's population declined by 1/10 a year, then after ME3 There would be about 0.65 billion Asari dead/harvested. Thats using a relative rate. If Thessia had the same absolute rate of extermination as Earth (1.15 billion a year exactly) then Thessia would face depopulation in just under 6 years.

It looks grim...But it does at least look like a large chunk of Asari on Thessia would still be alive by the time Shepard gets the Crucible to fire. Though It could be about half of the population or even less that survives. Ouchy.

PS: I think that this experience will scar the Asari and could potentially cause a rethinking of their policy of being "light on war". This may act to push some of the Asari to a more militant mindset imo. But thats just a thought I got atm while thinking about a Post- Reaper invasion Thessia.

Weren't there some numbers thrown around in the game trailer? "We lost 2 millions the first day...7 millions the week after" or something like that? That might be a good estimate for the total casualties if you extrapolate that to the 6months/1 year timespan of the game? Just a thought 

Using some really rough extrapolation mentioned in my post I ended up with a figure of 650 million dead in one year. So 400 million is kinda in the same ballpark. Especially since I inflated the length to one full year of "Reaping".

Thats a percent difference of what... 38 percent? Not that great..but kinda close:)


Edit: Also, my initial estimate for Thessia's population might be off. I assumed 6.5 billion vs 5.5 billion (was off the top of my head)

Modifié par Ajosraa, 24 avril 2012 - 06:07 .

[Dude on Fire]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

I tried only once playing a renegade Shep. I just can't do it, though. He's too evil and I found myself wanting him to fail. It was one runthrough of ME1 and I hated him so much I never imported him and I've never switched from a paragon, Liara romancer again.

I just don't see how people can enjoy a full renegade Shep. He's a straight up sociopath, he's not a hero at all. He rather reminds me of Kratos from God of War, and I just find that disturbing. I also find it disturbing when people think Kratos is some kind of relateable badass or something. Same for Ren. Shep.

Agreed. Even though I got into Mass Effect relatively late (February, I believe), and thus didn't have time to actually test out being RenShep fully in the games, the little I actually did was just disturbing. I think it's at its prime in ME3, where the auto-dialogues create such a huge contrast to the times where you actually are able to be a dick.

There are moments when I do choose the renegade options/interrupts, though. A couple of examples are the Kai Leng death sequence (SERIOUSLY, I LOVE THAT) and when you rage at the Quarian Admiral for opening fire at the Geth Dreadnought with you still in it. Those actions both seem just, and work out nicely with what Shepard could conventionally do. Examples of actions that are NOT as acceptable (in my opinion) are the death scenes of Legion (seriously, SEVERAL shots?) and Mordin. They're just... wrong. They're not even like the third category of renegade actions that are just plane-out hilarious (punching the reporter), and they go against what ANY Shepard could POSSIBLY want to do (okay... I guess there might be some sick individuals who actually enjoyed them, but they're irrelevant to my analysis, since they must see the ME franchise in such a different way than me).

At the same time, I feel like I'm sometimes forcing myself to choosing paragon. As much as I love the bigger picture, there are times when I look at the renegade option (doesn't have to actually be red lighted) and think to myself that I would actually prefer it to the paragon one, but STILL I go for mr. Good Guy. Why? I do think it's because I keep telling myself I'm sort of serving a goal that's greater than my comprehension, and therefore must choose the light path, no matter if it sometimes stings. Most of the time, though, I feel satisfied with my choice afterwards. A lot of times it's probably because my doubt about the current paragon option was based on the fact that it was presented in the dialogue wheel as pretty blurry ("Wait... what does that even mean?"), and did end up as the optimal thing to say when it's said. Ok... that was pretty vaguely formulated, hope you get what I mean.

So, in summary, I totally agree that genuinelly playing as RenShep is undoable. I did create a joke-Shep and chose a larger amount of the dick-phrases for funzies, but actually making those big evil deeds... I can't do it. I simply can't.

PS. Oh, and cheating on Liara is just as difficult.  DS.

Modifié par Dude on Fire, 24 avril 2012 - 06:05 .

[Tyranniac]

TheMarshal wrote...

Erenbe wrote...

Weren't there some numbers thrown around in the game trailer? "We lost 2 millions the first day...7 millions the week after" or something like that? That might be a good estimate for the total casualties if you extrapolate that to the 6months/1 year timespan of the game? Just a thought 

The casualty rate would drop once the major population centers had been decimated.  People disperse, groups are smaller and less centralized, deaths would drop to the thousands per day instead of millions.

I imagine intial casualties would be very high as resistance is being obliterated, then low while the Reapers set up processing centres and indoctrinate governments. After that it should pick up as they begin harvesting, and then slowly decrease as harvesting moves to less densly populated areas.

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

so, the Earth is the most populated planet \\ HomeWorld in the Galaxy = 11 billion

this probably because in the Sol System and in this Nebula exist only one planet habitable the Earth,

but not all human have biotic power like Asari, and not have primary, secondary and tertiary organs like Krogan,

not have the same tecnlogy like Salarian

the Alliance Fleet not have the power like the Turian Fleet,

and the Alliance not have the number of ships like the Quarian

human not have sensory skill, perceptual like Asari and Prothean,

is the most young species in the Galaxy,

so why the Reaper want human for create new Primary Ship like Soverign ?

[Erenbe]

TheMarshal wrote...

Erenbe wrote...

Weren't there some numbers thrown around in the game trailer? "We lost 2 millions the first day...7 millions the week after" or something like that? That might be a good estimate for the total casualties if you extrapolate that to the 6months/1 year timespan of the game? Just a thought 

The casualty rate would drop once the major population centers had been decimated.  People disperse, groups are smaller and less centralized, deaths would drop to the thousands per day instead of millions.

Hmmm, i was of the opinion that the majority of humans lived in mega-cities that span several cities at once? You would of course have smaller settlements and all but once the Reapers hit a major city I would guess that a lot of people will die in a short time. 
But yeah...people will not stand in place and wait for the Reapers to say hello but will flee so yeah....a linear extrapolation might not work. 

[Tyranniac]

Dude on Fire wrote...

At the same time, I feel like I'm sometimes forcing myself to choosing paragon. As much as I love the bigger picture, there are times when I look at the renegade option (doesn't have to actually be red lighted) and think to myself that I would actually prefer it to the paragon one, but STILL I go for mr. Good Guy. Why? I do think it's because I keep telling myself I'm sort of serving a goal that's greater than my comprehension, and therefore must choose the light path, no matter if it sometimes stings. Most of the time, though, I feel satisfied with my choice afterwards. A lot of times it's probably because my doubt about the current paragon option was based on the fact that it was presented in the dialogue wheel as pretty blurry ("Wait... what does that even mean?"), and did end up as the optimal thing to say when it's said. Ok... that was pretty vaguely formulated, hope you get what I mean.

While I can't play renegade Shep, I could never do what you describe and just pick paragon all the time because it is paragon either. I much prefer to actually look at the options and pick what seems most suitable. (Although in ME3 a lot of the dialogue options were quite vague, so there was times when I took the paragon option simply because I wasn't able to determine what would actually be said, and the conversation was too far along for me to bother to reload.)

Edit:

FRANCESCO84Inn wrote...

so, the Earth is the most populated planet HomeWorld in the Galaxy = 11 billion 

this probably because in the Sol System and in this Nebula exist only one planet habitable the Earth,

but not all human have biotic power like Asari, and not have primary, secondary and tertiary organs like Krogan,

not have the same tecnlogy like Salarian

the Alliance Fleet not have the power like the Turian Fleet,

and the Alliance not have the number of ships like the Quarian

human not have sensory skill, perceptual like Asari and Prothean, 

is the most young species in the Galaxy,

so why the Reaper want human for create new Primary Ship like Soverign ?

 

Because the humans are the most diverse species in the galaxy. They have the widest range of differences between individuals, and apparently that is a desirable trait for Reaper construction material (Likely because varied individuals make for a better foundation for a Reaper mind, I imagine.)

Modifié par Tyranniac, 24 avril 2012 - 06:12 .

[Aristobulus500]

Dude on Fire wrote...

At the same time, I feel like I'm sometimes forcing myself to choosing paragon. As much as I love the bigger picture, there are times when I look at the renegade option (doesn't have to actually be red lighted) and think to myself that I would actually prefer it to the paragon one, but STILL I go for mr. Good Guy. Why? I do think it's because I keep telling myself I'm sort of serving a goal that's greater than my comprehension, and therefore must choose the light path, no matter if it sometimes stings. Most of the time, though, I feel satisfied with my choice afterwards. A lot of times it's probably because my doubt about the current paragon option was based on the fact that it was presented in the dialogue wheel as pretty blurry ("Wait... what does that even mean?"), and did end up as the optimal thing to say when it's said. Ok... that was pretty vaguely formulated, hope you get what I mean.

So, in summary, I totally agree that genuinelly playing as RenShep is undoable. I did create a joke-Shep and chose a larger amount of the dick-phrases for funzies, but actually making those big evil deeds... I can't do it. I simply can't.

PS. Oh, and cheating on Liara is just as difficult.  DS.

I get what you're saying here - sometimes the renegade option looks right but it's still wrong once you choose it. An example of when I felt this way, is after Mordin dies and Shepard has that nightmare. Liara comes up and asks Shepard if he's okay and what is troubling him, and you get 2 options.

Paragon - I'm thinking about Ashley
Renegade - Let it rest.

And I was conflicted. I was absolutely not troubled about Ashley. I was troubled by Mordin dying. I didn't want to talk about ****ing Ashley. And the renegade one seems fair and respectful, so I chose it.

What does Shepard actually do? He snaps at Liara, I don't remember the specifics, but it comes off as "it doesn't ****ing matter jesus get off my back" and just took me back a bit. Most of the time I'll choose paragon even when renegade *looks* right just because of that, Renegade usually is an **** even when he doesn't need to be.

[Ajosraa]

FRANCESCO84Inn wrote...

so, the Earth is the most populated planet HomeWorld in the Galaxy = 11 billion

this probably because in the Sol System and in this Nebula exist only one planet habitable the Earth,

but not all human have biotic power like Asari, and not have primary, secondary and tertiary organs like Krogan,

not have the same tecnlogy like Salarian

the Alliance Fleet not have the power like the Turian Fleet,

and the Alliance not have the number of ships like the Quarian

human not have sensory skill, perceptual like Asari and Prothean,

is the most young species in the Galaxy,

so why the Reaper want human for create new Primary Ship like Soverign ?

Well there was those times mentioned about humans being genetically "diverse" but....I think it has something to do with Human genetics being "Malleable". We are easy to turn into other things, is how I explain it to myself. The Reapers wanted this genetic information to add to their collection, so to speak.

I think when they used the explination of Human "genetic diversity" Thats what they (the developers) were getting at.

And ofc Shepard is a Human.

But thats just my opinion.

Modifié par Ajosraa, 24 avril 2012 - 06:16 .

[Tyranniac]

Ajosraa wrote...

And ofc Shepard is a Human.

Oh yeah, Shepard made them interesed in humanity. That's relevant too.

Modifié par Tyranniac, 24 avril 2012 - 06:20 .

[WaterWar]

 

Aristobulus500 wrote...

I get what you're saying here - sometimes the renegade option looks right but it's still wrong once you choose it. An example of when I felt this way, is after Mordin dies and Shepard has that nightmare. Liara comes up and asks Shepard if he's okay and what is troubling him, and you get 2 options.

Paragon - I'm thinking about Ashley
Renegade - Let it rest.

And I was conflicted. I was absolutely not troubled about Ashley. I was troubled by Mordin dying. I didn't want to talk about ****ing Ashley. And the renegade one seems fair and respectful, so I chose it.

What does Shepard actually do? He snaps at Liara, I don't remember the specifics, but it comes off as "it doesn't ****ing matter jesus get off my back" and just took me back a bit. Most of the time I'll choose paragon even when renegade *looks* right just because of that, Renegade usually is an **** even when he doesn't need to be.

 
I think it is common issue with the conversation system. It is sometimes hard to know excatly what will be said/done when you choose a particular conversation option. Especially the "renegade" ones.

In that particular scene you describe, Aristo, I also thought that my Shepard wouldn't feel sorry for Ashley, as he had already fallen out with her in ME1. I would rather have that the option said: "I'm thinking about the lost ones" and thereby make it more general. A small complaint though. 

Modifié par WaterWar, 24 avril 2012 - 06:21 .

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

@Tyranniac, probably, but i not like this difference, the Asari species is most nearby to the Human Species, in the difference about face, skin clolor, probably in the future human become most united on the difference about the adaptability, probably in the past the Asari were most different,
not is realistic think have in one planet homogeneous population

[Wulfram]

The Asari not being diverse actually sort of makes sense. Their method of reproduction is cloning, with a little randomness added in.

Modifié par Wulfram, 24 avril 2012 - 06:30 .