56469 réponses à ce sujet

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

any idea for this question :

so my Anita is Paragade , now have 55 % Renegade and 45 % Poragon after Thessia,

why in the conversation whit Javik-Liara and in the conversation whit Liara after Thessia in his cabin i not have renegade interruption ?

[Aristobulus500]

Liara isn't quite a civilian though she's not in the Alliance military. She says herself that she's had to fight off mercs/pirates herself, and being an Asari - especially the daughter of Benezia - she had training in how to use her biotics well. I mean there's a good reason she's so useful in fights.

[Tyranniac]

adneate wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
If I'm being totally serious, having a relationship with anyone under your command isn't very responsible.

If you want to get into the technical regulations side of things Shepard isn't doing anything technically wrong since Liara is a civilian and not part of the Alliance Military. Though in the real military we don't let civilians on a warship just because they want to be there or use them in a fire team because we think they'd probably be useful. So irresponsibility is introduced pretty early on and Shepard's romantic engagement with a civilian on the Normandy is probably the more responsible thing compared to handing said civilian a firearm and putting her in a combat unit.

You usually need months of intense training before someone does that.

Thankfully, Shepard is a Spectre, so she can do whatever she wants! Also, breaking regulations is hardly the same thing as being irresponsible, is it? One could also imagine the Systems Alliance views things differently compared to today's militaries.

[polor89]

Tyranniac wrote...

adneate wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
If I'm being totally serious, having a relationship with anyone under your command isn't very responsible.

If you want to get into the technical regulations side of things Shepard isn't doing anything technically wrong since Liara is a civilian and not part of the Alliance Military. Though in the real military we don't let civilians on a warship just because they want to be there or use them in a fire team because we think they'd probably be useful. So irresponsibility is introduced pretty early on and Shepard's romantic engagement with a civilian on the Normandy is probably the more responsible thing compared to handing said civilian a firearm and putting her in a combat unit.

You usually need months of intense training before someone does that.

Thankfully, Shepard is a Spectre, so she can do whatever she wants! Also, breaking regulations is hardly the same thing as being irresponsible, is it? One could also imagine the Systems Alliance views things differently compared to today's militaries.

Exactly so shepard acts out of the jurisdiction of the Alliance and he can recruit any person alien or human as he has done  in the 3 games he doesnt "answer" to anyone

[adneate]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
Liara isn't quite a civilian though she's not in the Alliance military. She says herself that she's had to fight off mercs/pirates herself, and being an Asari - especially the daughter of Benezia - she had training in how to use her biotics well. I mean there's a good reason she's so useful in fights.

I'd classifiy her as a civilian since she's not current or former Military / Law Enforcement. Her training stems from the civil society of Thessia not it's military / police academies or training facilities. Her firearms experience is like that of a hunter, which is to say it's solitary not team based. She's not incapable or unqualified but if we're really looking at this truthfully putting Liara in a Special Forces unit is like putting a sport hunter in a Navy SEAL team.

They might be real good at whatever they do but this is an entirely different skillset, one that demands a certain base uniformity amongst it's members. It's going to be unfamiliar and it's going to be moving very fast with little margin for error.

Tyranniac wrote...
One could also imagine the Systems Alliance views things differently compared to today's militaries.

BioWare didn't have a military advisor when they thought up the Systems Alliance because the organization is a mess. In ME1 they mention "The Regs" about fraternization but by the time ME3 rolls around it's anything goes and nobody cares. Also the Alliance rank system makes no sense and it's branches make no sense either.

So anything goes in the Alliance and if it doesn't the rules are so convoluted and nonsensical that anything goes is just easier for everyone.

Modifié par adneate, 25 avril 2012 - 04:33 .

[Aristobulus500]

It's been a while since I played ME1, doesn't Liara say that Benezia had her train with Asari commandos or something, while she was young? I'm pretty sure she mentions getting some kind of special training.

[TheMarshal]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

It's been a while since I played ME1, doesn't Liara say that Benezia had her train with Asari commandos or something, while she was young? I'm pretty sure she mentions getting some kind of special training.

Does she?  Sometimes I forget what's established canon and what I've read in fanfics.  I would imagine the daughter of a matriarch, and all asari for that matter, would have some basic weapons training.  If nothing else they'd know how to properly use their biotics.

[Wulfram]

All being a Spectre and Liara not being Alliance means is that you won't get court martialled. It doesn't make it a good idea. She's still effectively under your command, and you're still taking her into combat.

And if you don't take her into combat because you're in love with her, that would be problematic too

But acceptable breaks from reality and all that

[Aristobulus500]

TheMarshal wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

It's been a while since I played ME1, doesn't Liara say that Benezia had her train with Asari commandos or something, while she was young? I'm pretty sure she mentions getting some kind of special training.

Does she?  Sometimes I forget what's established canon and what I've read in fanfics.  I would imagine the daughter of a matriarch, and all asari for that matter, would have some basic weapons training.  If nothing else they'd know how to properly use their biotics.

The other thing to consider is the type of training Asari typically get, anyway. Asari Commando training is the most popular type of training for an Asari - that is, a small special forces team. She's actually the most likely - aside from the actual Alliance members on the ship - to have gone through training that would allow her to work well with the rest of the group.

The way Shepard works is really basically the same way Asari commando groups work.

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

exist in Liara romance some Renegade interruption?

because my Anita ia Paragade, but i have for Liara romance dialogue only the paragon interrupation.

[adneate]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
It's been a while since I played ME1, doesn't Liara say that Benezia had her train with Asari commandos or something, while she was young? I'm pretty sure she mentions getting some kind of special training.

I don't recall that, she was trained in her biotics as is standard for 90% of Asari and mainly uses that to defend herself I can't recall her ever even mentioning shooting someone. She killed the pirates and mercenaries with her biotics mainly.  She certainly doesn't mention training with Commandos  I doubt she even knew Shiala's name until she introduced herself to Shepard.

FRANCESCO84Inn wrote...
exist in Liara romance some Renegade interruption?

Nope there's just the Paragon interrupt there's nothing else.

Modifié par adneate, 25 avril 2012 - 04:42 .

[Tyranniac]

adneate wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...
One could also imagine the Systems Alliance views things differently compared to today's militaries.

BioWare didn't have a military advisor when they thought up the Systems Alliance because the organization is a mess. In ME1 they mention "The Regs" about fraternization but by the time ME3 rolls around it's anything goes and nobody cares. Also the Alliance rank system makes no sense and it's branches make no sense either.

So anything goes in the Alliance and if it doesn't the rules are so convoluted and nonsensical that anything goes is just easier for everyone.

Once again, I think the situation in ME3 is because the Normandy is a rather unique case, due to being under the command of a Spectre and being full of people that aren't members of the Alliance. Then there is the fact that there is a Reaper invasion going on. I'm sure that helps contribute to make things more irregular.

I also think the Aliiance overall is more irregular than a modern military. I think it is more like military forces of older days (but with other values, obviously).

[Aristobulus500]

It's just, what you're arguing is at odds with what the game constantly shows Liara to be. So it's a little hard to mesh your argument with the actual canon. Your argument basically boils down to Liara being incompetent and not capable of being a useful character for the combat and such, and well...that's disproven by the game itself.

She is shown as knowing how to use a gun - not being an expert in it or anything, but she knows how to use them, and being a very powerful biotic. She is repeatedly shown to be very capable in combat and knows how to mix in both biotics and guns, though of course she relies more on biotics.

With what we're shown in game you're just flat out wrong. Your arguments, if they were true, would lead to an entirely different portrayal of Liara than the one we got.

[TheMarshal]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

The other thing to consider is the type of training Asari typically get, anyway. Asari Commando training is the most popular type of training for an Asari - that is, a small special forces team. She's actually the most likely - aside from the actual Alliance members on the ship - to have gone through training that would allow her to work well with the rest of the group.

The way Shepard works is really basically the same way Asari commando groups work.

I'd be hesitant to go so far as to say that all asari get commando training, particularly since Liara seems to be much more on the academic track.  Who knows, though?  I mean, assuming the first fifty years of an asari's life is spent in school, she could probably learn a much broader range of subjects than any of the shorter-lived species could.

[Aristobulus500]

I wouldn't say *all* Asari do, but that if an Asari gets any sort of combat training, it's probably going to be very similar to that. In Liara's case, it's likely she did, since you know, only daughter of Benezia and all.

[Akernis]

I am pretty sure she does not mention military training, I am not even sure that she would be able to handle a weapon before coming aboard the Normandy. But then that is one of the acceptable breaks from reality.
But if we went all real-world military quite alot of the series would fall apart.
All we know is that she is a capable fighter, certainly with her biotics, but she dosn't even gain pistol wepaon training in the first game, so I assume any weapon training she has, was learned aboard the normandy.

[adneate]

What I'm actually is saying is that the game doesn't operate on real military logic and the Alliance doesn't operate on real military rules. So worrying too much about whether or not an action or a romance is wrong or "unprofessional" is a waste of time since a lot of the things you do in the game are "unprofessional" or just plain silly!

The real military sucks by comparison it's all saluting, rules and training. You never get to meet kickass scientists with super powers who can hold their own in a special forces squad!

Though that's mainly because those people don't tend to exist, real archeologists tend to be covered in dirt and look like that just came from a flea market.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

It's been a while since I played ME1, doesn't Liara say that Benezia had her train with Asari commandos or something, while she was young? I'm pretty sure she mentions getting some kind of special training.

Liara was based on the adept class yet Bioware went out of their way not to give her any kinds of weapon skills, giving her electronics instead.

So no. I am very sure that Liara never had commando training.

[Wulfram]

IIRC Liara mentions that biotics training is a normal part of Asari schools. And biotics training is basically self defence training.

Which actually seems a little odd to me. The Asari are supposed to be really non-violent, yet everyone learns to throw people around with their mind.

edit: Regulations about fraternization do get mentioned by Joker I believe.  With him mentioning the "not part of the Alliance" dodge in regards to EDI.

Modifié par Wulfram, 25 avril 2012 - 05:03 .

[Aristobulus500]

You can be non-violent, and still know how to defend yourself. A lot of martial arts schools really try to teach their students that the methods are only meant to be used in self defense, and to do that, they also tend to try to teach certain mental disciplines so you're not going to be the type to just go off and attack people.

Edit - in fact, this would make sense with the Asari, since they are supposed to be non-violent. A self defense training course that all Asari go through, could also be about teaching them to be non-violent and only use methods in self defense.

Modifié par Aristobulus500, 25 avril 2012 - 05:04 .

[Tyranniac]

adneate wrote...

What I'm actually is saying is that the game doesn't operate on real military logic and the Alliance doesn't operate on real military rules. So worrying too much about whether or not an action or a romance is wrong or "unprofessional" is a waste of time since a lot of the things you do in the game are "unprofessional" or just plain silly!

The real military sucks by comparison it's all saluting, rules and training. You never get to meet kickass scientists with super powers who can hold their own in a special forces squad!

Though that's mainly because those people don't tend to exist, real archeologists tend to be covered in dirt and look like that just came from a flea market.

This simply means the Alliance is different. I don't think it's too far fetched to think that a military organization 170 years into the future that protects a bunch of corporate colonies would look quite different from a modern military in some ways.

[Robhuzz]

polor89 wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...

adneate wrote...

Wulfram wrote...
If I'm being totally serious, having a relationship with anyone under your command isn't very responsible.

If you want to get into the technical regulations side of things Shepard isn't doing anything technically wrong since Liara is a civilian and not part of the Alliance Military. Though in the real military we don't let civilians on a warship just because they want to be there or use them in a fire team because we think they'd probably be useful. So irresponsibility is introduced pretty early on and Shepard's romantic engagement with a civilian on the Normandy is probably the more responsible thing compared to handing said civilian a firearm and putting her in a combat unit.

You usually need months of intense training before someone does that.

Thankfully, Shepard is a Spectre, so she can do whatever she wants! Also, breaking regulations is hardly the same thing as being irresponsible, is it? One could also imagine the Systems Alliance views things differently compared to today's militaries.

Exactly so shepard acts out of the jurisdiction of the Alliance and he can recruit any person alien or human as he has done  in the 3 games he doesnt "answer" to anyone

Shepard isn't actually recruiting people at all. Miranda explains it as Shepard having this 'fire that makes people willing to follow you [him]  into hell itself'. Eg Shepard's extraordinary leadership skills and being able to achieve the impossible makes people follow him. Of course being a spectre made it all possible in the first place.
When he was made a Spectre, Udina gave the ship to Shepard. Had the Normandy remained a real alliance vessel, Shepard probably would've been reprimanded by the brass for bringing non alliance crewmembers aboard.

Liara was based on the adept class yet Bioware went out of their way not to give her any kinds of weapon skills, giving her electronics instead.

So no. I am very sure that Liara never had commando training. 

Wasn't that done partially to show Liara had biotic talent as well as technical expertise rather than implying that Liara had never fired a gun in her life (probably close to the truth since she would've used her biotics to defend herself instead but still...)

Modifié par Robhuzz, 25 avril 2012 - 05:07 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Robhuzz wrote...

Liara was based on the adept class yet Bioware went out of their way not to give her any kinds of weapon skills, giving her electronics instead.

So no. I am very sure that Liara never had commando training. 

Wasn't that done partially to show Liara had biotic talent as well as technical expertise rather than implying that Liara had never fired a gun in her life (probably close to the truth since she would've used her biotics to defend herself instead but still...)

While I could imagine that Liara have used a gun before in emergencies. The fact that she does not have any weapon skills despite the class she was based on implies that Liara have only trained her biotics as a means of self-defence.

And before you note that Kaidan does not have any weapon skills (his passive does give a small boost to pistol though), he was based on the sentinel class and we know that he is an Alliance marine, meaning we know he had training.

[adneate]

Tyranniac wrote...
This simply means the Alliance is different. I don't think it's too far fetched to think that a military organization 170 years into the future that protects a bunch of corporate colonies would look quite different from a modern military in some ways.

Possibly though current private contractors directly emulate Western Military doctrine. A lot of that stuff is so ingrained and so old that I'd have to assume they'd adopt it as well just so they seem as "Military" as the standing armies of the various nation states. I mean we still technically practice pike drills despite a long pointy stick having no real utility against an AK-47 or a F-16. I'd like to imagine somewhere an Alliance marine is being told to get is boot bands on and shave his face before manning the OP! It warms my heart to think they're still practicing Defcon Douglas out there.

I kinda prefer the simpler explanation for why The Alliance doesn't make much sense which is that BioWare just didn't do the research and didn't ask anyone in the military how things are run. They just kinda slapped it together and hoped nobody would pay close attention and it would just sound "army-ish" enough.

Sorta like the same reason they had the Normandy's deck design not make sense, then let Shepard explain why it does only to have everyone stand in the cockpit with Joker whenever something important was happening. Since the truth was the design didn't make sense and it makes cutscenes really fracking hard to stage.



For the top since I pulled the lucky straw.

Modifié par adneate, 25 avril 2012 - 05:21 .

[Arcataye]

FRANCESCO84Inn wrote...

Who are these people on the extranet talking about me?
So many pages... I hope they're not batarians...

Modifié par Arcataye, 25 avril 2012 - 05:19 .