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[Aristobulus500]

frudi wrote...
And unkillable, forced upon us and the writers' pet. Or so the haters' conventional wisdom would hold. Haters just gonna hate... <_<

Honestly, those are pretty lousy reasons to hate a character. Especially considering they are just wrong. Especially the "forced upon you" bit, since you very clearly can tell her you don't want to be with her.

And anyone who is upset because the game doesn't let them savagely bully a character - or kill them - is just ****ed up and I have no respect for their opinions or complaints anyway.

[lillitheris]

[quote]Aristobulus500 wrote...

[quote]kumquats wrote...
Aethyta seemed to get the concept quite well and she seemed to be very attracted to Benezia in a very physical sense. ^.^

[Edit:] Poor Liara, no one wants to have that kind of information about their parents. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/blushing.png[/smilie]
[/quote]

Yes, but Aethyta doesn't actually disprove the assertion - she - and others like her - were accounted for. Asari ARE said to be introduced to a concept of sexuality like we would understand, once they become integrated with other races. And Aethyta is old and has been all over the place, she's certainly not a - well, - pure Asari anymore. She's got lots of bits of other races culture in her, it's not hard to think she would've also adopted a concept of sexuality over the ages.

That's the thing, keep in mind when I say Asari wouldn't have a concept of sexuality, I'm referring to Asari among their own kind, without influences from non-Asari culture. So, most of this would most likely be seen on more rural parts of Thessia or parts that are populated much more by Asari than any other race.[/quote]

I don't really think you can argue this while simultaneously arguing that they're intrinsically nonsexual. I don't think something that fundamental would be changed just by exposure to other cultures.

Let's say you primarily look at the eyes of a person when you're considering them for attractiveness. Someone tells you that butts are pretty nice too. Will that change what you primarily look for?

[quote]
[quote]lillitheris wrote...
Still, being monogendered doesn't really have anything to do with sexuality – one way or another. The basic premise of sexual pleasure is that it's a trait that tends to lead to more offspring than the alternatives.[/quote]

Sure, I get that. But all of the other races have male/female genders that would've introduced the Asari to the concept of sexuality.[/quote]

I don't see how that follows. You're equating sexuality with two sexes and that's definitely not the case.

[quote]I'm not sure how you figure being mono-gendered wouldn't impact their views of sexuality, though. A lot of what we get, as humans, is derived from the differences between males/females - Asari do not have that comparison to make. Until they get introduced to other races, of course, but I'm talking pure Asari culture.[/quote]

I explicitly said that it doesn't necessarily impact their views, one way or another

The ‘pure asari’ argument I'm just not buying at all, though.

[quote][quote]Because that's how same-sex human couples are, right? It's a little glib but, again, there's no direct causality. Human bits are special, because they are special. Nudity taboos and their psychological effects are a different matter.[/quote]

Same sex human couples - you have to keep in mind - don't exist in a vacuum. They still exist and live in a society that very clearly shows differences between males/females with a particular focus on genitals as special and unique.[/quote]

I don't quite understand this argument. It physically feels good to have certain parts touched. They are special.

[quote][quote]
Leaving aside melding (I suspect we have different ideas about it), don't humans also focus on the acts that cause the most pleasure?[/quote]

Well, yes, but we have a particular focus on the genitals above all else. I'm not sure Asari would have this kind of particular focus.[/quote]

OK, maybe they wouldn't. Maybe they'd be really into someone touching the small of their back? If asari have parts of their body that are particularly pleasurable to touch, it's all but certain that that's what will happen.
[quote][quote]
There're many human cultures where there's no stigma to sexual openness. Plus they've got a couple thousand years of cultural evolution over us.

I mean, hell, think back even 50 years of human sexuality.[/quote]

Sure, and how does that disprove anything I'm asserting for the Asari?[/quote]

It means that you can't use asari ‘sexual openness’ as proof for your case.


[quote][quote]
As the author…I mean as the distributor of said study*, I can say that this is an interesting idea.

There's nothing that's invalid or false about it so it would work perfectly well as a basis for writing. On the other hand, it's as purely conjucture as my take is

To make it slightly more compelling, trying to trace the evolution of their society through some keystones might work.


* I actually put it up on FFN now, by the by: http://www.fanfictio...sari_for_Humans
[/quote]

Of course I realize this is a lot of ***SPECULATION*** but it seems to make sense to me. I'm not seeing a lot that says it's *wrong*. It seems really logical and seems to mesh well with the Asari, to me. Of course there's nothing absolutely proving this as right above anything else that could also make sense...it's just that it *does* make sense.
[/quote]

Isn't that what I said? :happy: It's plausible, but I personally don't find it any more compelling than the various other explanations.

[lillitheris]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

People find ways to hate on everybody. In fact, I think the only character I haven't seen a hate thread for is Mordin.

Mordin is such an idiot.  He should have brought rope to rappel down. You always bring rope.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

frudi wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Kane Lam's stories were pretty dark, but he wrote some really powerful stuff. Alot of my current fanfic is inspired by one of his in fact.

As stated the fic was written before LOTSB was released. So there alot of Liara's character and future was open for interpretation, I guess he had a more dark view in things.

'Pretty dark' indeed. I read Holding On to Let Go just before going to sleep yesterday... or trying to go to sleep anyway, it kept me up for quite a while. I'd intended to read its continuation (Broken Bonds and Shattered Dreams), but just looking at its description now, it seems to go to darker places than I'm willing to stomach.

Read to chapter two atleast. I like the way the Illium cameo was handled.

Sad the story never got finished, but then again the last chapter you read has Shepard ditch Liara in favor of Miranda. So I am not sure if I wanted to read anymore of it!

[Akernis]

Lizardviking wrote...

Akernis wrote...
What the hell is that?
How can one even think up something like this

Kane Lam's stories were pretty dark, but he wrote some really powerful stuff. Alot of my current fanfic is inspired by one of his in fact.

As stated the fic was written before LOTSB was released. So there alot of Liara's character and future was open for interpretation, I guess he had a more dark view in things.

Sorry  

I know I should not judge without reading it for myself or taking the context into consideration.
It just touched a nerve as even before LotSB (Well, even before I knew she opened up to you after completing the observer quest) I still loved her dearly no matter how sad I was and that mentioning there was just so fundamentally againt how I feel about her.  

[MidnightRaith]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

frudi wrote...
And unkillable, forced upon us and the writers' pet. Or so the haters' conventional wisdom would hold. Haters just gonna hate... <_<

Honestly, those are pretty lousy reasons to hate a character. Especially considering they are just wrong. Especially the "forced upon you" bit, since you very clearly can tell her you don't want to be with her.

And anyone who is upset because the game doesn't let them savagely bully a character - or kill them - is just ****ed up and I have no respect for their opinions or complaints anyway.

I read the entire hate thread. Wasn't too impressed. The people there are too concerned with hating Liara instead of thinking about the implications her absence would have on the plot. Apparently, not too many fans know how to look at entertainment media and judge it on its literary values.... Then, of course, they want to claim that Liara fans are rabid and don't respect their views while insulting us at the same time.  Yeah.... I would like to see them try their little soapbox in here. Wonder how long they'd last before they'd give up. My view on it though is, yeah, you can dislike Liara. I was once one of those fans that didn't like her. However, their reasons for actively hating her are:

She's too cut up about Thessia. No one else is like this.

She forces herself on Shepard, get out of my damn room.

She's too nice.

She gets too much attention.

Two of those are blatantly untrue. One is nonsense and the other is a problem outside of her entire character.... Suffice to say, they irritate me.

[TMA LIVE]

Any of this still in the game? From leaked script:

Narrative Razor
Restore military communications before it's too late.
Narrative Synopsis:
Liara informs Shepard that one of the Shadowbroker's (her) secret communication stations was discovered and sabotaged by Cerberus. The station is the conduit for all Alliance military coordination in the sector, and with it sabotaged, Alliance war efforts in the area are" floundering in the dark." It's only a matter of time before cohesion of the force completely disintegrates and the enemy picks them apart.
Shepard goes to the compromised station and must decipher, unlock, and reverse hack the intricate set of sabotaging measures perpetrated on the systems (puzzles and the like ). He must also figure out what intelligence has been compromised and what measures must be taken to nullify the enemy's acquired advantage. All this while fielding reports of ships and troops blundering blindly and without support into enemy ambushes, etc.
Once up and running again, Alliance forces in the area return to ready and collaborative form, regaining the upper hand and supporting each other's efforts again. But now that the station is known to the enemy, Cerberus will continue to try to take it down, facilitating the multi-player narrative.
Gameplay Razors
Gameplay Theme: LOSS / DISCONNECTION
Reference: Han/Leia mission on Endor in Return of the Jedi (minus the Ewoks!)
Gameplay Razor: Outwit intricate locks and puzzles before Alliance forces are picked apart.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 03 mai 2012 - 12:23 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Any of this still in the game? From leaked script:

arrative Razor
Restore military communications before it's too late.
Narrative Synopsis:
Liara informs Shepard that one of the Shadowbroker's (her) secret communication stations was discovered and sabotaged by Cerberus. The station is the conduit for all Alliance military coordination in the sector, and with it sabotaged, Alliance war efforts in the area are" floundering in the dark." It's only a matter of time before cohesion of the force completely disintegrates and the enemy picks them apart.
Shepard goes to the compromised station and must decipher, unlock, and reverse hack the intricate set of sabotaging measures perpetrated on the systems (puzzles and the like ). He must also figure out what intelligence has been compromised and what measures must be taken to nullify the enemy's acquired advantage. All this while fielding reports of ships and troops blundering blindly and without support into enemy ambushes, etc.
Once up and running again, Alliance forces in the area return to ready and collaborative form, regaining the upper hand and supporting each other's efforts again. But now that the station is known to the enemy, Cerberus will continue to try to take it down, facilitating the multi-player narrative.
Gameplay Razors
Gameplay Theme: LOSS / DISCONNECTION
Reference: Han/Leia mission on Endor in Return of the Jedi (minus the Ewoks!)
Gameplay Razor: Outwit intricate locks and puzzles before Alliance forces are picked apart.

No. Sounds like another mission that was cut out.

You can find alot of those in the earliest script AFAIK, a different version of the battle of Earth could be read about as well.

[DOsquareZER]

dont forget the ole' plot armor fallback argument. That one never gets old.

[rubynorman]

I explained about Liara's actions after Thessia once but they didn't and will not listen. I'm tired of them, let they do whatever they want, Liara is one of the most awesome characters in the game and she holds a place in my heart, that's the true. They're just jealous and afraid to do something useful like fighting for a new DLC with their favorite characters. Nah, they want everyone to suffer, they didn't want the game to become better.

[DOsquareZER]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Liara hate threads are kind of amusing, to be honest.

*throws on best impression of captain malcolm reynolds voice* ain't they just... 

Modifié par doozer12, 03 mai 2012 - 12:41 .

[Erenbe]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Liara hate threads are kind of amusing, to be honest.

Meh, about as amusing as talking to a dead fish! The sheer stupidity some of these people show is kind of overwhelming after a while! 

[TMA LIVE]

Any idea where the latest version of the script is?

[MidnightRaith]

 Oh, Razer, I promise to never leave home without you again, never!  And I'm happy to see you too, Checklist, now VanguardShep won't be lonely.

[TheCrimsonSpire]

MidnightRaith wrote...

 Oh, Razer, I promise to never leave home without you again, never!  And I'm happy to see you too, Checklist, now VanguardShep won't be lonely.

Umm, what's all this about? Did I miss something? 

[DarkCloudd]

MidnightRaith wrote...

 Oh, Razer, I promise to never leave home without you again, never!  And I'm happy to see you too, Checklist, now VanguardShep won't be lonely.

Lol I know how you feel. I managed to convince my wife to let me get the Razer Naga and now I have no idea how I ever played anything without it. I feel the same way about the checklist thing too I have one for ME1 and 2 and I pretty much clear the list every time I play the games, my OCD won't let me not do it.

[MidnightRaith]

TheCrimsonSpire wrote...

Umm, what's all this about? Did I miss something? 

 Starts at the end of 1396, but I'll give you a run down. Forgot my Razer Epic at home, had to use a generic, crappy mouse, forgot my Galactic Checklist, which I can't do a 100% run without for ME1, VanguardShep was who the run was for so I couldn't play her because I'm obsessive compulsive and can't take the chance that I'd miss something. But, now I'm home and I've reunitied with my beloved mouse and checklist and now Serra Shepard can continue the fight. Unlike ME3, it's a happy ending.

[DarkCloudd]

MidnightRaith wrote...

TheCrimsonSpire wrote...

Umm, what's all this about? Did I miss something? 

 Starts at the end of 1396, but I'll give you a run down. Forgot my Razer Epic at home, had to use a generic, crappy mouse, forgot my Galactic Checklist, which I can't do a 100% run without for ME1, VanguardShep was who the run was for so I couldn't play her because I'm obsessive compulsive and can't take the chance that I'd miss something. But, now I'm home and I've reunitied with my beloved mouse and checklist and now Serra Shepard can continue the fight. Unlike ME3, it's a happy ending.

Still better than the ending to ME3.... sorry I really shouldn't have but I couldnt help myself.

Edit: oops TotP Liara pic. Ummm have a pic of the Liara Gift Scene.

Modifié par DarkCloudd, 03 mai 2012 - 03:07 .

[TheCrimsonSpire]

How can anyone not like a face like that! I don't get the hate threads at all 

I am a sad kitty /uploads_user/1070000/1069890/28020.gif

Modifié par TheCrimsonSpire, 03 mai 2012 - 03:17 .