56469 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyranniac]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...
There is no such thing as an internal amp. But yes, an amp needs implants to connect to, so she must have an implant as well.

So...what does an amp look like, then, if it's external? Why can't you see it on Liara, shouldn't you be able to see her wearing one/having one attached?

I don't really think we know anything about how amps look or where they are attached, sorry.

Aristobulus500 wrote...

It is possible to like a character without approving of them you know. I think the Illusive Man is a great character, but that doesn't mean I approve of his actions. You should really try to make a destinction here.

There's a huge difference in the portrayal and presentation of TIM vs. Tali. TIM is a villain, and you judge them differently than you do hero characters. I'm not supposed to agree with his actions, and be on his side. I'm supposed to disgree with him and want to bring him down, and he fulfills his role well. Tali IS a hero character, and as such she's presented as a good guy and a character whose side you are supposed to be on, not sodramatically against, as I am. Same for Ashley.

 

Heroes can be flawed. I think Ashley is a good character but I don't approve of the way she acts, understand?

Erenbe wrote...

lol found this on tumblr. Have fun!





Edit: Is there a way to scale images when pasting the in here?

[lillitheris]

Tyranniac wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

And yes Liara has an amp(ME1) i dont know if she has implants because every asari is born with biotics

But - an amplifier straight up doesn't work without implants to connect to, I thought? And basically, if an amp is an external, it has to connect to implants. If an amp is internal, it can basically be the implant itself.

There is no such thing as an internal amp. But yes, an amp needs implants to connect to, so she must have an implant as well.

OK, wait, what. I swear I just posted about this somewhere, but I can’t find where now! Where is my mind, etc.    (:happy:)

Anyway. So.

An amplifier increases power, or more generally, output. The ME biotics amps also have some signal processing qualities.

An ‘implant’ is an implanted, hardwired, internal amplifier, goes into the spine or whatever. It does the basic job of facilitating mapping of the brain to the eezo, thereby either enabling the use of biotics, or if the person was already able, the enhancement of the ability. Humans must have one, asari do not necessarily need one.

For most species, the ‘implant’ is permanent. It cannot be removed or replaced. This also means that it can only be improved so much directly.

That’s why there’s the concept of an ‘amp’, which more properly is an external augmentation to the internal amplifier. The augment can either be a secondary amplifier (increasing the total output across all biotics usage) or, more commonly, a specialized unit that both does further signal processing as well as amplifies the signal. The latter type can be used to improve a certain type of biotic activity while leaving the others alone (or maybe degrading them). ‘Amps’ i.e. augments are obviously handy because they can be upgraded and changed.

In order to use an augment, the internal amplifier or ‘implant’ must be fitted with a port that opens outside the body.

Humans usually have both their internal amplifier (‘implant’) and the augment port installed in the base of the neck.

…

I speculated about asari earlier, and my theory is that

1. Asari who do not wish to completely ignore their innate biotic ability will have an amplifier (or an ‘implant’)

2. Significant numbers (50% and above) will not have external augments, and will therefore not have a visible port for augment connections, only the hidden internal amplifier (‘implant’)

3. The asari internal amplifier is installed between the shoulderblades rather than in the neck. If the asari wishes to use external augments, then the port will also be located there.

Hmm. Oh. And Liara only has an internal amplifier.

[Aristobulus500]

lillitheris wrote...


Hmm. Oh. And Liara only has an internal amplifier.

Everything you said makes a lot of sense and clears things up. But one question here - if Liara only has an internal amp, then what exactly are you doing in ME1 when you equip various amps to her?

And what would that look like? If the game was like super detailed realistic, I mean - would it just be a small computer chip looking thing she'd attach to her back, or something else? It's something, presumably, would be directly on the skin and so should show up in the sex scenes where she's naked, right? Or no, because she would remove the external amp and then the connection ports are not really visible.

[Arcataye]

Erenbe wrote...

lol found this on tumblr. Have fun!
ToyPanda

Ouch, a biotic headbutt. Must feel like a krogan vanguard!
-
Mass Effect - Liara Romance
Didn't notice before how much she moves on the chair at the debrief, she couldn't sit that much on Illium either. In her cabin on the Normandy she never even tries to sit on a chair, only Shepard's lap. I love how she talks so much and fast being nervous.
-
By the way I've noticed that almost every thread dies right after my post, except this one. <3

Modifié par Arcataye, 05 mai 2012 - 10:58 .

[Tyranniac]

lillitheris wrote...

Hmm. Oh. And Liara only has an internal amplifier.

Just because the implants are internal amplifiers doesn't mean you should call them that, it is confusing and misleading. And Liara most certainly does have an amplifier (The "external" kind as you call them). You can choose which one to equip her with in ME1.

Clarification:

I agree with the rest of what you're saying, but stop calling the implants internal amplifiers even if that is their function. They are normally just called implants while the external additions are called amplifiers.

Further Clarification:

I don't agree with all of your speculation at the end however.

Modifié par Tyranniac, 05 mai 2012 - 11:01 .

[Akernis]

lillitheris wrote...
An ‘implant’ is an implanted, hardwired, internal amplifier, goes into the spine or whatever. It does the basic job of facilitating mapping of the brain to the eezo, thereby either enabling the use of biotics, or if the person was already able, the enhancement of the ability. Humans must have one, asari do not necessarily need one.

For most species, the ‘implant’ is permanent. It cannot be removed or replaced. This also means that it can only be improved so much directly.

I do not think that humans must have one to use their biotics, though it would be required to use them effectively (in combat for instance).

Also implant can be remowed and replaced, it is just a defficult procedure which is often dangerous and can course brain damage. 

lillitheris wrote...
That’s why there’s the concept of an ‘amp’, which more properly is an external augmentation to the internal amplifier. The augment can either be a secondary amplifier (increasing the total output across all biotics usage) or, more commonly, a specialized unit that both does further signal processing as well as amplifies the signal. The latter type can be used to improve a certain type of biotic activity while leaving the others alone (or maybe degrading them). ‘Amps’ i.e. augments are obviously handy because they can be upgraded and changed.

Where did you get that information? never recall seeing or hearing it before.

lillitheris wrote...
I speculated about asari earlier, and my theory is that

1. Asari who do not wish to completely ignore their innate biotic ability will have an amplifier (or an ‘implant’)

2. Significant numbers (50% and above) will not have external augments, and will therefore not have a visible port for augment connections, only the hidden internal amplifier (‘implant’)

3. The asari internal amplifier is installed between the shoulderblades rather than in the neck. If the asari wishes to use external augments, then the port will also be located there.

Hmm. Oh. And Liara only has an internal amplifier.

No she dosen't, she uses (external) amplifiers in ME1, or more likely she uses them all the time but we have the option of chosing which ones in the first game.

Edit: Ninja'ed with the last part.

Modifié par Akernis, 05 mai 2012 - 11:00 .

[Dude on Fire]

*Notices 2 post-cycles have past since my attempt at creatig topic* Okay...

[Erenbe]

Arcataye wrote...
Mass Effect - Liara Romance
Didn't notice before how much she moves on the chair at the debrief, she couldn't sit that much on Illium either. In her cabin on the Normandy she never even tries to sit on a chair, only Shepard's lap.
I love how she talks so much and so fast being nervous.

Yeah...I noticed it when I was rendering my fraps recording just a while ago. She is constantly moving around. Even when you talk to her in her cabin her head never stays still  It's funny to watch!

Arcataye wrote...
By the way I've noticed that almost every thread dies right after my post, except this one. <3

Don't you just hate when this happens?  I always start wondering whether I said something that offended the entire thread and everyone that takes a peek or what 

Edit: But maybe it is just that my argument or last statement was so powerful and compelling that no one else has anything left to say! Yeah...I think I go with that! 

Modifié par Erenbe, 05 mai 2012 - 11:04 .

[RVonE]

Erenbe wrote...

lol found this on tumblr. Have fun!

ToyPanda



Edit: Is there a way to scale images when pasting the in here?

Oh man, that's amazing! Liara being badass and cute at the same time!

[lillitheris]

Arcataye wrote...

By the way I've noticed that almost every thread dies right after my post, except this one. <3

It just means that you’ve made an irrefutably perfect comment, and further discussion is not only unnecessary but outright sacrilege

[Akernis]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
And what would that look like? If the game was like super detailed realistic, I mean - would it just be a small computer chip looking thing she'd attach to her back, or something else? It's something, presumably, would be directly on the skin and so should show up in the sex scenes where she's naked, right? Or no, because she would remove the external amp and then the connection ports are not really visible.

We never see what an amplifier looks like though I imagine they would be fairly small if those on humans can fit at the base of the skull, perhaps the size of a finger nail or similar.

One thing that i noticed is that the later games, particularly ME3 goes away from the biotic amp principle and seems to simply focus on the implants, would it be far-fetched to assume that the newest implants (the L5s) simply had the amps build into them?

Though personally I think the only reason for there even being amps is to have something "selectable" in ME1 and when that option fell away so did talk about the amps themselves. And personally I prefer the idea of a biotic's implants/amplifiers (for humans and asari both) being explusively internal

Modifié par Akernis, 05 mai 2012 - 11:11 .

[Tyranniac]

Akernis wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

...

We never see what an amplifier looks like though I imagine they would be fairly small if those on humans can fit at the base of the skull, perhaps the size of a finger nail or similar.

One thing that i noticed is that the later games, particularly ME3 goes away from the biotic amp principle and seems to simply focus on the implants, would it be far-fetched to assume that the newest implants (the L5s) simply had the amps build into them?

Though personally I think the only reason for there even being amps is to have something "selectable" in ME1 and when that option fell away so did talk about the amps themselves. And personally I prefer the idea of a biotic's implants/amplifiers (for humans and asari both) being explusively internal.

There are mentions of amplifiers in both ME2 and ME3, it's just that they did away with the option of picking which ones you want for gameplay reasons.

I guess it is possible that the L5 implants render amps obsolete since I don't think there is any mention of amps for Shepard in ME2 or ME3. This would also make sense considering that the L5 implants are specialized depending on which class Shepard is, meaning amps wouldn't be needed to focus on a certain type of biotics usage. Biotics with older implants would still rely on amps however.

Modifié par Tyranniac, 05 mai 2012 - 11:15 .

[lillitheris]

[quote]Akernis wrote...
[quote]For most species, the ‘implant’ is permanent. It cannot be removed or replaced. This also means that it can only be improved so much directly.
[/quote]
I do not think that humans must have one to use their biotics, though it would be required to use them effectively (in combat for instance).[/quote]

To use them usefully; but I concede, I overstated. Here’s the relevant wiki:

[quote]Once a person has been identified as having biotic ability, they may be
outfitted with a surgically implanted amplifier, usually installed
around the time of puberty, in order to make their talents strong enough
to be useful. [/quote]

[quote]Also implant can be remowed and replaced, it is just a defficult procedure which is often dangerous and can course brain damage. [/quote]

You are absolutely correct, somehow Kaidan’s reluctance to upgrade from the debilitating L2 had translated into an incorrect memory.

[quote][quote]lillitheris wrote...
That’s why there’s the concept of an ‘amp’, which more properly is an external augmentation to the internal amplifier. The augment can either be a secondary amplifier (increasing the total output across all biotics usage) or, more commonly, a specialized unit that both does further signal processing as well as amplifies the signal. The latter type can be used to improve a certain type of biotic activity while leaving the others alone (or maybe degrading them). ‘Amps’ i.e. augments are obviously handy because they can be upgraded and changed.
[/quote]
Where did you get that information? never recall seeing or hearing it before.[/quote]

The weeky again: [quote]A biotic may enhance certain aspects of his or her biotic abilities by installing implant upgrades called bio-amps.  ->

Bio-amps[/b] allow biotics to synchronize
the nodules so they can form fields large and strong enough for
practical use. Amplifiers can improve a specific discipline or talent.[/quote]

This is where BioWare themselves got into issues, and why I want to try to separate the three terms rather than mix them:

1. Internal amplifier
2. Augment port connecting 3. to 1. This may be built into 1., not a separate unit
3. External amplifier or amplifier augmentation

1. can exist without 2. and 3.
2. can exist without 3., but not without 1.
3. cannot exist without 1. and 2.

[quote][quote]lillitheris wrote...
Hmm. Oh. And Liara only has an internal amplifier.
[/quote]
No she dosen't, she uses (external) amplifiers in ME1, or more likely she uses them all the time but we have the option of chosing which ones in the first game.[/quote][/quote]

In our world of ME3 and consistent with the conspicious absence of an actual port, we the Queen have declared it is too so!

:happy:

[Dude on Fire]

Wow, implants are THAT interesting? I knew I played through ME1 too casually D:

[TheMarshal]

This is why I play an infiltrator... Biotics are too confusing!

[polor89]

Just play as a soldier and forget about it all !!

[Tyranniac]

lillitheris wrote...

Also implant can be remowed and replaced, it is just a defficult procedure which is often dangerous and can course brain damage.

You are absolutely correct, somehow Kaidan’s reluctance to upgrade from the debilitating L2 had translated into an incorrect memory.

Perhaps due to the flawed design of the L2 implants they cannot be removed safely?

lillitheris wrote...

This is where BioWare themselves got into issues, and why I want to try to separate the three terms rather than mix them:

1. Internal amplifier
2. Augment port connecting 3. to 1. This may be built into 1., not a separate unit
3. External amplifier or amplifier augmentation

1. can exist without 2. and 3.
2. can exist without 3., but not without 1.
3. cannot exist without 1. and 2.

I agree. At first I thought 1. wouldn't have any effect without 3., but after taking a closer look at available information it seems you are right since there are mentions of it not being possible to disarm a human biotic. If 1. needed 3. to work, then it would be a simple matter of removing 3.

Liara still has an external amp however! 

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

polor89 wrote...

Just play as a soldier and forget about it all !!

Indeed!

[Akernis]

Tyranniac wrote...

Akernis wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

...

We never see what an amplifier looks like though I imagine they would be fairly small if those on humans can fit at the base of the skull, perhaps the size of a finger nail or similar.

One thing that i noticed is that the later games, particularly ME3 goes away from the biotic amp principle and seems to simply focus on the implants, would it be far-fetched to assume that the newest implants (the L5s) simply had the amps build into them?

Though personally I think the only reason for there even being amps is to have something "selectable" in ME1 and when that option fell away so did talk about the amps themselves. And personally I prefer the idea of a biotic's implants/amplifiers (for humans and asari both) being explusively internal.

There are mentions of amplifiers in both ME2 and ME3, it's just that they did away with the option of picking which ones you want for gameplay reasons.

I guess it is possible that the L5 implants render amps obsolete since I don't think there is any mention of amps for Shepard in ME2 or ME3. This would also make sense considering that the L5 implants are specialized depending on which class Shepard is, meaning amps wouldn't be needed to focus on a certain type of biotics usage. Biotics with older implants would still rely on amps however.

Headcanon adopted from now on, Shepard has an L5x with a build-in Savant Amp

[Akernis]

[quote]lillitheris wrote...

[quote]Akernis wrote...
[quote]For most species, the ‘implant’ is permanent. It cannot be removed or replaced. This also means that it can only be improved so much directly.
[/quote]
I do not think that humans must have one to use their biotics, though it would be required to use them effectively (in combat for instance).[/quote]

To use them usefully; but I concede, I overstated. Here’s the relevant wiki:

[quote]Once a person has been identified as having biotic ability, they may be
outfitted with a surgically implanted amplifier, usually installed
around the time of puberty, in order to make their talents strong enough
to be useful. [/quote]


[quote]Also implant can be remowed and replaced, it is just a defficult procedure which is often dangerous and can course brain damage. [/quote]

You are absolutely correct, somehow Kaidan’s reluctance to upgrade from the debilitating L2 had translated into an incorrect memory.

[quote][quote]lillitheris wrote...
That’s why there’s the concept of an ‘amp’, which more properly is an external augmentation to the internal amplifier. The augment can either be a secondary amplifier (increasing the total output across all biotics usage) or, more commonly, a specialized unit that both does further signal processing as well as amplifies the signal. The latter type can be used to improve a certain type of biotic activity while leaving the others alone (or maybe degrading them). ‘Amps’ i.e. augments are obviously handy because they can be upgraded and changed.
[/quote]
Where did you get that information? never recall seeing or hearing it before.[/quote]

The weeky again: [quote]A biotic may enhance certain aspects of his or her biotic abilities by installing implant upgrades called bio-amps.  ->

Bio-amps[/b] allow biotics to synchronize
the nodules so they can form fields large and strong enough for
practical use. Amplifiers can improve a specific discipline or talent.[/quote]

This is where BioWare themselves got into issues, and why I want to try to separate the three terms rather than mix them:

1. Internal amplifier
2. Augment port connecting 3. to 1. This may be built into 1., not a separate unit
3. External amplifier or amplifier augmentation

1. can exist without 2. and 3.
2. can exist without 3., but not without 1.
3. cannot exist without 1. and 2.

[quote][quote]lillitheris wrote...
Hmm. Oh. And Liara only has an internal amplifier.
[/quote]
No she dosen't, she uses (external) amplifiers in ME1, or more likely she uses them all the time but we have the option of chosing which ones in the first game.[/quote][/quote]

In our world of ME3 and consistent with the conspicious absence of an actual port, we the Queen have declared it is too so!


[/quote]
Thanks for those , I actually prefer her not having a port or a biotic amp, even if the 1st game contradicts it.

oh, and sorry for snapping at you earlier.

Modifié par Akernis, 05 mai 2012 - 11:40 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Tyranniac wrote...

Akernis wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

...

We never see what an amplifier looks like though I imagine they would be fairly small if those on humans can fit at the base of the skull, perhaps the size of a finger nail or similar.

One thing that i noticed is that the later games, particularly ME3 goes away from the biotic amp principle and seems to simply focus on the implants, would it be far-fetched to assume that the newest implants (the L5s) simply had the amps build into them?

Though personally I think the only reason for there even being amps is to have something "selectable" in ME1 and when that option fell away so did talk about the amps themselves. And personally I prefer the idea of a biotic's implants/amplifiers (for humans and asari both) being explusively internal.

There are mentions of amplifiers in both ME2 and ME3, it's just that they did away with the option of picking which ones you want for gameplay reasons.

I guess it is possible that the L5 implants render amps obsolete since I don't think there is any mention of amps for Shepard in ME2 or ME3. This would also make sense considering that the L5 implants are specialized depending on which class Shepard is, meaning amps wouldn't be needed to focus on a certain type of biotics usage. Biotics with older implants would still rely on amps however.

Isn't the biotic damage upgrade for Shepard in ME2 an upgrade to ther biotic amp? Sounds like Shepard still has have both an implant and an biotic amp in ME2/3.

[Dude on Fire]

polor89 wrote...

Just play as a soldier and forget about it all !!

I did, because I didn't think BioWare actually had put in that much effort into the special abilities, making the weapon based class superior... WELL I WAS WRONG. NEVER. AGAIN.

On the bright side, it made bringing Liara on missions more than just morale boost and eye candy

[Tyranniac]

Akernis wrote...

Headcanon adopted from now on, Shepard has an L5x with a build-in Savant Amp

Actually, I meant that the "x" part of the L5x implants means it is specialized. That could mean they wouldn't need an external amp. It couldn't have an external amp built in because... well, then it wouldn't be external anymore. Either the L5x is powerful and specialized enough not to need an external amp, or it isn't. There was never talk of a built in one.

Modifié par Tyranniac, 05 mai 2012 - 11:43 .

[Akernis]

Tyranniac wrote...

Akernis wrote...

Headcanon adopted from now on, Shepard has an L5x with a build-in Savant Amp

Actually, I meant that the "x" part of the L5x implants means it is specialized. That could mean they wouldn't need an external amp. It couldn't have an external amp built in because... well, then it wouldn't be external anymore. Either the L5x is powerful and specialized enough not to need an external amp, or it isn't. There was never talk of a built in one.

I know, I was just dreaming about the potential

Edit: Aggghhh yet another top, what have I done to derserve this?!!... one moment...

Modifié par Akernis, 05 mai 2012 - 11:47 .

[Tyranniac]

Lizardviking wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...
There are mentions of amplifiers in both ME2 and ME3, it's just that they did away with the option of picking which ones you want for gameplay reasons.

I guess it is possible that the L5 implants render amps obsolete since I don't think there is any mention of amps for Shepard in ME2 or ME3. This would also make sense considering that the L5 implants are specialized depending on which class Shepard is, meaning amps wouldn't be needed to focus on a certain type of biotics usage. Biotics with older implants would still rely on amps however.

Isn't the biotic damage upgrade for Shepard in ME2 an upgrade to ther biotic amp? Sounds like Shepard still has have both an implant and an biotic amp in ME2/3.

 

Hm, you're right! Then we know that L5 biotics have use for amps as well. That answers my last post as well.

Modifié par Tyranniac, 05 mai 2012 - 11:44 .