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[The Lightspeaker]

I think my revisions have gone live now btw. And so the world is alright once again.

[Akernis]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

It's been a while in coming but you've all been very patient.

I've been playing through ME2 and writing drafts for how I'm going to approach this (it's pretty complicated) but now I think I'm ready to finally unveil the first chapter of the ME2 part of my romance additions fanfic work. Fair warning: this one is a little sad. I'll cut the authors notes this time. I've said all I want to in the preamble.


And so I present to you all:
Separation and Reunion - Chapter One: Loss



As ever all feedback is greatly welcomed. Thanks for reading!

Dammit Lightspeaker!

I have just read three fantastic fanfics, have another I have to go through and am doing the fiishing touches on my own simultaniously, and now you add another I have to read.
I am on Liara fanfic overdose...

Wait... that is actually a good thing , I am off to read yours in a moment.

Edit: I am on the LotSB post-suicide mission boat. I have always played it that TIM gave the information doing the main game but that it was encrypted with considerable encryption that EDI needed to break and did not succeed before after the mission and then Shepard headed straight to Liara.  

Modifié par Akernis, 06 mai 2012 - 11:48 .

[Aristobulus500]

Akernis wrote...
I just read the three of them... and thank you guys for the gentle push, the experience was abosolutely brilliant   the mindmelding sequences in particular.
I am normally very uncomfortable with explicit and the like but rather than feeling repulsed I was actually enraptured by the skill, feeling and tenderness employed. It was just a tad too strong for me but it was well worth that.
The first was my favourite, I actually shed tears there, followed by the third, but all three were masterpieces of art .

Absolutely. They are just extremely powerful, emotional pieces and I'd have loved to get that kind of glimpse into Shepard/Liara having that much pure love for eachother, in the games themselves. It comes close with that scene in London, though. "Enraptured" is a good way to phrase it, too. I was completely swept up by the sheer emotion bleeding through those pages, and it was so spot on that I could very easily see it happening between Shep/Liara just like that.

I'm curious though - what made you shed tears, and what would you say were the most moving, powerful parts of it?

I did like the first as well, for how Liara was eager and anxious, yet nervous at the same time. Still, she makes the first move, not Shepard, and really...it all just feels like things Liara would do.
 

This is really cool, I haven't seen this before. I feel like it'd also make a good wallpaper.

[rubynorman]

I think LotSB should be played before the SM because after taking over the SB's base, Liara got Shepard a lot of informations and resources. Those could be use for upgrading the Normandy, weapons, and other things. If we do it after SM, those resources won't mean much for Shepard. But I think Shepard should delay Liara's tour after SM, it will make the scene more powerful.

[moreeman06]

polor89 wrote...

Well i take your word for it because you know more than i do for this stuff but still making  shepard for example female it kinds of "closing out" the male players and this goes in reverse too thats why i think a no gender-shepard caters to a wider audience(i sounded like bioware now advertising ME3 lol)

I disagree I've seen several femsheps/Liara fics that have gotten me teary eyed and engrossed as much as mshep ones have, and I can finally read Rae's stuff now that I'm home from work

edit:  as for LOTSB i've played it both before and after and i prefer the after just because as either lightspeaker or aristobulus said it feels more like a lead in to ME3 than it does a lead in to SM.

and Lightspeaker you already now how i feel about your fic, Two thumbs up 

Modifié par moreeman06, 07 mai 2012 - 12:07 .

[lillitheris]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

polor89 wrote...

Not at all if your romance is Liara 

It's not the the romance itself, it's how you write it. Mind-melding can only take you so far in sexualised scenes and the lack of a usable pronoun (not to mention the lack of a first name) makes it absurdly hard. You could definiely write a short one-shot fanfic for it. But anything over, say, 5k words would become very unwieldly and awkward methinks.

Some languages have only one pronoun for males and females…I’ve been suggesting ‘se’ as the English version, but for some reason it’s not yet been adopted

lillitheris wrote...

I
can’t accept that reasoning for myself. It does work well from a
narrative perspective, but I tend to think strictly from a character’s
perspective*.

TIM: “So, I have your lover’s location. Do you want
to go to her and make up, or let her wait do it later – if you survive,
which is pretty unlikely – so you can get a good angst going instead?”

Wait...what? Meeting Liara has NOTHING to do with LotSB. You meet up with Liara and do things for her in normal ME2 regardless of LotSB...

That makes it…worse, in my mind. Akernis above says that se (see what I did there?) RPs it as only getting the info decrypted/whatever right before SM or after it, which would be sort of plausible if we assume that Shepard continues looking for Liara throughout but is unsuccessful.

So, you meet your lover and then you just…leave. Instead of sorting it out.

I just don’t think it works as it is in the game (of course it was even worse without LotSB). You have to introduce some reason for why there’s no reconciliation (or break-up) at that point – and you absolutely can, I have no doubt.

Edit: I just want to stress that I don’t think it’s ‘wrong’ if you leave it post-SM. I’m only saying that I can’t, it just seems an alien idea.

The format of the game as far as Liara romance and real-life relief schedule went was: Go to Illium > Complete game> LotSB was released and you could go back to Liara to do it

Well, mine went complete game -> LotSB released -> restart game -> LotSB -> complete game

Modifié par lillitheris, 07 mai 2012 - 12:17 .

[The Lightspeaker]

moreeman06 wrote...

polor89 wrote...

Well i take your word for it because you know more than i do for this stuff but still making  shepard for example female it kinds of "closing out" the male players and this goes in reverse too thats why i think a no gender-shepard caters to a wider audience(i sounded like bioware now advertising ME3 lol)

I disagree I've seen several femsheps/Liara fics that have gotten me teary eyed and engrossed as much as mshep ones have, and I can finally read Rae's stuff now that I'm home from work

Actually I totally missed that part when I first read that.

Again, why the hell does it seem to be the case that everyone assumes males cannot connect with a female character? I connect way better with femshep than maleshep (who I personally find too "generic" for my tastes); but I'm male.

Honestly, really drives me mad that. "Oh god he's a guy identifying emotionally with a female character, blasphemy!"

lillitheris wrote...

That
makes it…worse, in my mind. Lizardviking above says that se (see what I
did there?) RPs it as TIM only giving the LotSB info right before or
after the SM, which would be sort of plausible if we assume that Shepard
continues looking for Liara throughout but is unsuccessful.

So, you meet your lover and then you just…leave. Instead of sorting it out.

I just don’t think it works as it is in the game
(of course it was even worse without LotSB). You have to introduce some
reason for why there’s no reconciliation (or break-up) at that point –
and you absolutely can, I have no doubt.

I honestly don't get why this is such a problem...I don't want to spell it out what I'm going doing but: Liara actually very specifically pushes Shepard away in-game. Explicitly telling you that she has a debt to pay and distancing herself; for a variety of reasons (not going into my thoughs in detail because I'll be using them for fic later). The one she gives you is that she is after the Shadow Broker.

I don't see how that isn't totally understandable given all that's happened...

As far as TIM's information goes it fits there perfectly. TIM only finds out about SB AFTER the Suicide Mission and passes it on to you as a gesture of trust. You go racing back to Liara, having met her previously and knowing that's what she's after, to help her out (again not going into any further details for risk of spoiling future fanfic).

Well, mine went complete game -> LotSB released -> restart game -> LotSB -> complete game [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

Granted, but fundamentally assuming one playthrough it was written and produced after the SM. Hence th design of it.

Modifié par The Lightspeaker, 07 mai 2012 - 12:16 .

[moreeman06]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

polor89 wrote...

Well i take your word for it because you know more than i do for this stuff but still making  shepard for example female it kinds of "closing out" the male players and this goes in reverse too thats why i think a no gender-shepard caters to a wider audience(i sounded like bioware now advertising ME3 lol)

I disagree I've seen several femsheps/Liara fics that have gotten me teary eyed and engrossed as much as mshep ones have, and I can finally read Rae's stuff now that I'm home from work

Actually I totally missed that part when I first read that.

Again, why the hell does it seem to be the case that everyone assumes males cannot connect with a female character? I connect way better with femshep than maleshep (who I personally find too "generic" for my tastes); but I'm male.

Honestly, really drives me mad that. "Oh god he's a guy identifying emotionally with a female character, blasphemy!"

wait I'm confused, i didn't type anything about a male can't play a female.......

[Akernis]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
I'm curious though - what made you shed tears, and what would you say were the most moving, powerful parts of it?

Up untill they actually mind-melded I was interested but not much more than that. When they joined I began to feel really as part of the stroy, how I could put my shepard (and by extension myself) in her place with Liara, my eyes began to moist about halfway through the joining and I realised that I had tears in them because of how real and true their love felt in the mid-end part of the joining.

[The Lightspeaker]

moreeman06 wrote...

wait I'm confused, i didn't type anything about a male can't play a female.......

I'm talking about the bit polor wrote and you're referring to. I kinda skipped over the "driving away male readers by using a female lead" thing the first time. sorry for the confusion.

[moreeman06]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

wait I'm confused, i didn't type anything about a male can't play a female.......

I'm talking about the bit polor wrote and you're referring to. I kinda skipped over the "driving away male readers by using a female lead" thing the first time. sorry for the confusion.

oh.... ok i was confused because my post didn't mention anything about that, i guess i glanced over that part to....

[The Lightspeaker]

moreeman06 wrote...

The Lightspeaker wrote...

moreeman06 wrote...

wait I'm confused, i didn't type anything about a male can't play a female.......

I'm talking about the bit polor wrote and you're referring to. I kinda skipped over the "driving away male readers by using a female lead" thing the first time. sorry for the confusion.

oh.... ok i was confused because my post didn't mention anything about that, i guess i glanced over that part to....

Don't worry about it. I've had like...a bottle and a half of wine. I'm a little hazy myself right now.

[Aristobulus500]

Akernis wrote...
Up untill they actually mind-melded I was interested but not much more than that. When they joined I began to feel really as part of the stroy, how I could put my shepard (and by extension myself) in her place with Liara, my eyes began to moist about halfway through the joining and I realised that I had tears in them because of how real and true their love felt in the mid-end part of the joining.

Ah, yeah, I figured it might be something like that, because that portrayal of the mind melding is just so amazing. The games imply it's something like that, but to see it up close and personal like that, really have it described in such detail, and to show just how deep their love for eachother is...It's hard to not be in awe at all that, what Liara is actually doing for Shepard when she mind melds.

What I also really liked about the portrayal, is how it kept Liara being an alien in nature - of course she's similar to a human female and mentions that, but they go over some slight specific differences between her and a human female, and what I thought was so interesting most of all, is in that first fic, the Illos one - Shepard is trying to approach her like a human female, still. She's essentially treating it like a standard lesbian human thing, and Liara starts crying out to her that she needs more desperately. Shepard takes it as just wanting more intense physical sex at first, but Liara is actually referring to the Asari need to do a Joining.

What was so interesting about that, to me, is that the Joining was not just presented as an option the Asari have, but as a way to so deeply connect with a lover that they would feel a burning desire to do that. It's hard to put into words, but it's the way Liara didn't just casually want to do it as an enhancement, but felt that she needed to.

[Akernis]

lillitheris wrote...
That makes it…worse, in my mind. Akernis above says that se (see what I did there?) RPs it as only getting the info decrypted/whatever right before SM or after it, which would be sort of plausible if we assume that Shepard continues looking for Liara throughout but is unsuccessful.

So, you meet your lover and then you just…leave. Instead of sorting it out.

That would be "he" in my case .

My story/headcanon with Liara in ME2 goes:

Meet Liara on Illium, talk to her, doing her observer mission despite resevation since my Shepard is afraid me might have lost her, talking with her afterwards to learn about her involvement in Shepard's revival (and give her a way better reassurance than "my mission is important" ) thus reconciling with her, at least finding out that there is still hope for them. 
Then gettinginformation from TIM regarding the SB and have EDI start to decode it. Finish the hunt for the collcetors. EDI manages to decrypt the intel and Shepard heads straight to Illium to give the intel to Liara; cure LotSB with LIara & Shepard reuniting and renewing their love. 

[Akernis]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
What I also really liked about the portrayal, is how it kept Liara being an alien in nature - of course she's similar to a human female and mentions that, but they go over some slight specific differences between her and a human female, and what I thought was so interesting most of all, is in that first fic, the Illos one - Shepard is trying to approach her like a human female, still. She's essentially treating it like a standard lesbian human thing, and Liara starts crying out to her that she needs more desperately. Shepard takes it as just wanting more intense physical sex at first, but Liara is actually referring to the Asari need to do a Joining.

What was so interesting about that, to me, is that the Joining was not just presented as an option the Asari have, but as a way to so deeply connect with a lover that they would feel a burning desire to do that. It's hard to put into words, but it's the way Liara didn't just casually want to do it as an enhancement, but felt that she needed to.

Well I can't say anything but indeed to that

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Akernis wrote...
Up untill they actually mind-melded I was interested but not much more than that. When they joined I began to feel really as part of the stroy, how I could put my shepard (and by extension myself) in her place with Liara, my eyes began to moist about halfway through the joining and I realised that I had tears in them because of how real and true their love felt in the mid-end part of the joining.

Ah, yeah, I figured it might be something like that, because that portrayal of the mind melding is just so amazing. The games imply it's something like that, but to see it up close and personal like that, really have it described in such detail, and to show just how deep their love for eachother is...It's hard to not be in awe at all that, what Liara is actually doing for Shepard when she mind melds.

I belive Liara herself sums it up perfectly when she talks about the union.

Liara: "...in some case it can be a truly life-changing event"

Well for my Shepard it certainly was, the best and most powerful ever. or it was untill they went a step further

[Aristobulus500]

That was so powerful I'm basically always going to consider those scenes as basically canon, with some obvious alterations for my Shep being a male and all. I won't really be able to think that the sex scenes went any differently than that.

Very few fanfics have that kind of an effect on me. I'm still kinda dazed over just how moving it was, truth be told.

It did a good job basically showing off why Liara is such a good character, too, I think. I don't feel like you could get that kind of pure love out of the rest of the LI's...but that might be starting a derail that shouldn't be started. My intention in saying this isn't to **** on the other characters so much as it is to just state how much I prefer Liara and a bit of why.

[lillitheris]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

I honestly don't get why this is such a problem...I don't want to spell it out what I'm going doing but: Liara actually very specifically pushes Shepard away in-game. Explicitly telling you that she has a debt to pay and distancing herself; for a variety of reasons (not going into my thoughs in detail because I'll be using them for fic later). The one she gives you is that she is after the Shadow Broker.

I don't see how that isn't totally understandable given all that's happened...

I still wouldn’t leave until I have an answer of some kind. The game is pretty vague in that part.

It can definitely be made work in a variety of ways – hell, you could even just have Liara disappear to actually hunt for SB and leave a note to Shepard that she can’t reveal her location and yadda yadda (not sure why BW didn’t actually do that), or make the initial fight or brushoff a little more intense, etc. or whatever.

As far as TIM's information goes it fits there perfectly. TIM only finds out about SB AFTER the Suicide Mission and passes it on to you as a gesture of trust. You go racing back to Liara, having met her previously and knowing that's what she's after, to help her out (again not going into any further details for risk of spoiling future fanfic).

Sure, you can absolutely do that. But here you’re having to change the story from the game – it’s not a bad thing, I think you can make a fantastic narrative that way, but you are changing it.

And that’s my only argument here. If the game is exactly as it is, no headcanon, nothing added or taken away, I just don’t see it.

I don’t want to feel like you’d have to reveal your secrets. Like I said, I’m certain you can do it wonderfully.

Agree to disagree? :happy:

Modifié par lillitheris, 07 mai 2012 - 12:51 .

[IndigoWolfe]

Hey guys, I'm finally checking back in from being monumentally busy for the past week and a half.

Can anyone fill me in on things I should know?

[The Lightspeaker]

lillitheris wrote...

I still wouldn’t leave until I have an answer of some kind. The game is pretty vague in that part.

It can definitely be made work in a variety of ways – hell, you could even just have Liara disappear to actually hunt for SB and leave a note to Shepard that she can’t reveal her location and yadda yadda (not sure why BW didn’t actually do that), or make the initial fight or brushoff a little more intense, etc. or whatever.

But...there is an answer given...and it boils down to "I don't know; I have to do this first". Shepard isn't exactly the sort to go "tell me or I'm gone".Or at least Paragon Shep isn't; because honestly that's a bit of a nasty attitude to take.

Sure, you can absolutely do that. But here you’re having to change the story from the game – it’s not a bad thing, I think you can make a fantastic narrative that way, but you are changing it.

And that’s my only argument here. If the game is exactly as it is, no headcanon, nothing added or taken away, I just don’t see it.

Ok...now I'm REALLY confused...how? What I just said is all factually what happened. It IS taking the game exactly as it was released, taking into account the DLC release schedule. Assuming a straight playthrough of everything from launch the narrative is ME2 into LotSB into Arrival and the DLCs were generaly designed with that narrative structure in mind...

There is absolutely NO headcanon in that or narrative adjustment. It is what happened over the course of ME2 and DLC release, period. The DLC implementation itself is god-awful, but it's done as it is purely to allow people to play with their new stuff early rather than completing the rest first. I mean...as an extreme example Arrival makes absolutely no bloody sense if it's not at the very end, but you can access it after Horizon.

In terms of narrative structure (and supported by DLC release timings) it is the very end part. Similarly in terms of narrative structure (and, indeed, as the writers have designed) the TIM's information about SB doesn't come until after the SM. The strictest interpretation of the narrative design dictates it that way.


And now I'm getting a headache. Either way, sorry if you hate it but it's proving impossible to please everyone.

Modifié par The Lightspeaker, 07 mai 2012 - 01:38 .

[Akernis]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Hey guys, I'm finally checking back in from being monumentally busy for the past week and a half.

Can anyone fill me in on things I should know?

The last couple of pages we have been disgussing fanfics, particularly the "Ilos/Hagalaz/Chronos Station Can Wait ones and Lightspeaker's new one. As well as whether LotSB should rather be played before or after the Suicide Mission with opinion being fairly evenly split.

I am sorry I can't give you a run down of the earlier pages but I can barely think strait right now from tiredness

Well I am off to bed, see you guys tomorrow  

[Aristobulus500]

Akernis wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Hey guys, I'm finally checking back in from being monumentally busy for the past week and a half.

Can anyone fill me in on things I should know?

The last couple of pages we have been disgussing fanfics, particularly the "Ilos/Hagalaz/Chronos Station Can Wait ones and Lightspeaker's new one. As well as whether LotSB should rather be played before or after the Suicide Mission with opinion being fairly evenly split.

I am sorry I can't give you a run down of the earlier pages but I can barely think strait right now from tiredness

Well I am off to bed, see you guys tomorrow  

What Akernis said. You should probably just read the past...3-4 pages? It's not so much. If you haven't, you really should read the "...Can Wait" series too.

[chevyguy87]

I am a newcomer to this side of the forum and I like this quite a lot, much more peaceful then the general discussion board.

I have read some of the fan fiction linked in this thread and my god the writing behind them is just fantastic. I have noticed though that a good amount of them leave me feeling blue (pardon the pun) after reading them. But the writing is..... wow so many talented folks out there.

[moreeman06]

chevyguy87 wrote...

I am a newcomer to this side of the forum and I like this quite a lot, much more peaceful then the general discussion board.

I have read some of the fan fiction linked in this thread and my god the writing behind them is just fantastic. I have noticed though that a good amount of them leave me feeling blue (pardon the pun) after reading them. But the writing is..... wow so many talented folks out there.

oh.... but that's the opposite of how Liara should make you feel.    I and Marshall have some very lighthearted and happy ones,  and Lightspeakers work really follows the narrative of the story but is generally happy 

welcome to the thread:D

[Kaelef]

I've skimmed through the last dozen-or-so pages of this thread and see that there's some good fanfic to be gotten here. I'm wondering if anyone has taken the time to collect the (many?) ME stories written so that they're readily available for someone like me who's joining the party a bit late in the game. It seems like an obvious idea, so I'm assuming the answer is yes, but I haven't seen a mention of anything like that.

[lillitheris]

The Lightspeaker wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

I still wouldn’t leave until I have an answer of some kind. The game is pretty vague in that part.

It can definitely be made work in a variety of ways – hell, you could even just have Liara disappear to actually hunt for SB and leave a note to Shepard that she can’t reveal her location and yadda yadda (not sure why BW didn’t actually do that), or make the initial fight or brushoff a little more intense, etc. or whatever.

But...there is an answer given...and it boils down to "I don't know; I have to do this first". Shepard isn't exactly the sort to go "tell me or I'm gone".Or at least Paragon Shep isn't; because honestly that's a bit of a nasty attitude to take.

…And just brushing off your love isn’t nasty?

Maybe there is a person who would just accept their fate and leave, but I can’t relate to that in any way. Not if we’re talking about love. If your Shepard just boinked Liara and kinda likes her, that’s different.

So yeah, I’d demand an answer. Maybe that would end up in a bigger fight (which would be a good reason to leave) or then she would say she’s hunting the SB, and Eevs would say OK, let’s do it, I’ll book a table for us for when we’re done.

Sure, you can absolutely do that. But here you’re having to change the story from the game – it’s not a bad thing, I think you can make a fantastic narrative that way, but you are changing it.

And that’s my only argument here. If the game is exactly as it is, no headcanon, nothing added or taken away, I just don’t see it.

Ok...now I'm REALLY confused...how? What I just said is all factually what happened. It IS taking the game exactly as it was released, taking into account the DLC release schedule. Assuming a straight playthrough of everything from launch the narrative is ME2 into LotSB into Arrival and the DLCs were generaly designed with that narrative structure in mind...

LotSB can be played immediately when you get to Illium. Your assertion just isn’t true. If they intended it to only be playable after the SM, then it would be only playable after the SM.

This is exactly what I meant by headcanon: you have constructed yourself a restriction that it can only be done after. That’s absolutely fine and makes sense, but it’s not actually a part of the game.

And now I'm getting a headache. Either way, sorry if you hate it but it's proving impossible to please everyone.

I don’t ‘hate’ it. I don’t know how much clearer I can be but I’ll say it again: I’m absolutely certain that you can make it work.

You can even just make the initial meeting a little more intense (small change), and then move the SB info after the SM (another change). That works. There’s so many ways around it.