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[Furean]

I actually prefer DA2 over DA:O, since the story feels way more personal in comparison. Also, the companions are superb (Varric especially. Darn sexy dwarf!). But yeah, as the above poster mentions, having to revisit the same areas constantly was a shame.

Also, I actually really enjoyed the DLC they made for DA2. I thought Legacy and Mark of the Assassin (the two story-driven DLCs they made) were very good. Not LotSB good, but decent enough nonetheless.

Modifié par Furean, 09 mai 2012 - 08:34 .

[Arcataye]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

rubynorman wrote...

During mating an asari and her partner share memories, thoughts, and feelings.

Interesting. Well, that is very similar to her 'gift' scene. Which is shared, almost exactly, with a non-romanced Shepard.

Oh goddess not the "Liara is a raper" thing....

Once again I must refer to Rae's fanfics, she's written about the three romance scenes with Liara and then a "post-war-child-making" fic. I go with those as my canon.

Modifié par Arcataye, 09 mai 2012 - 08:36 .

[kyg_20X6]

Arcataye wrote...

Oh goddess not the "Liara is a raper" thing....

Not really what I was getting at at all... <_<

EDIT: Would you like to change your post a 3rd time?

My response was in referal to his theory. If that was the case, it pans out the same for a non-romanced (hence the problems, hence the toungue-in-cheek pic). But I don't think that's how it played out. I don't think she 'raped' a non-romanced Shepard. And I think there is, likely, a very noticeable difference between the two acts (which is the conclusion we reached a few messages later).

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 09 mai 2012 - 08:41 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

MidnightRaith wrote...
Off-topic:

I would like to replace my DA stuff. Had it on the 360 that went 'splodey and never got around to actually finish the game. I did try it on Steam, but it sucks on Steam, so I'm gonna give it a go on Origin.... That said, I've heard from plenty of fans that DA2 sucks or something. I like you people, y'all seem like a group that would remain a bit objective on this. Is DA2 worth getting? I want to have the whole story, but if the game's unpleasant, I could just skim the Wiki pages on it, I suppose. Wouldn't be the same, of course, but I'd get the general idea....

DA2 is not a very good game IMO, it has its moments but those are few and far between. When I heard about DA3 getting possibly made, I reinstalled DA:O  and played it again and had a blast doing it. But since DA3's import function will most likely require a DA2 savegame meaning I have to replay that game again, a thought I am dreading.

Just avoid DA2. That is all I can say.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 09 mai 2012 - 08:36 .

[kyg_20X6]

God, that Traynor thread... Elyiia is a saint.

Seriously, there is like an infinite ignorance loop in there. Every time you try to break it you see the same posts of hate/stupidity coming around again, and again.

[rubynorman]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

God, that Traynor thread... Elyiia is a saint.

Seriously, there is like an infinite ignorance loop in there. Every time you try to break it you see the same posts of hate/stupidity coming around again, and again.

That SB thread. I'm tired of those people . They don't like Liara and they don't spend time to know about Liara's works. All the messages in her terminal and dialogues between Liara and Glyph. They complain about Liara does nothing because they don't know it. That's pretty shallow IMO

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

God, that Traynor thread... Elyiia is a saint.

Seriously, there is like an infinite ignorance loop in there. Every time you try to break it you see the same posts of hate/stupidity coming around again, and again.

Are you talking about the "Traynor is a better SB than Liara"? If so, I feel they got a point.

We never see Liara providing us intel or anything, it is always Traynor with EDI's help that spots all those useful things like Grissom academy, Gelix and Sanctuary.

And I am quite aware that we can read emails that says Liara is providing resources etc. And while background events like this is nice I suppose I would much rather have Liara do some shadow broker'y stuff and help Shepard advance the plot. Hopefully DLC can help remedy this somewhat.

[Arcataye]

kyg_20X6 wrote...
EDIT: Would you like to change your post a 3rd time?

My response was in referal to his theory. If that was the case, it pans out the same for a non-romanced (hence the problems, hence the toungue-in-cheek pic). But I don't think that's how it played out. I don't think she 'raped' a non-romanced Shepard. And I think there is, likely, a very noticeable difference between the two acts (which is the conclusion we reached a few messages later).

I never edited the post in a way that it would be different. I only added the quote so you know what I'm commenting on.
That quote honestly looks too much of what I see in the general story forum's Liara bashing threads, especially the many rape-threads. If that wasn't your intention and it was a joke, I apologize.

[Yuqi]

MidnightRaith wrote...

I would like to replace my DA stuff. Had it on the 360 that went 'splodey and never got around to actually finish the game. I did try it on Steam, but it sucks on Steam, so I'm gonna give it a go on Origin.... That said, I've heard from plenty of fans that DA2 sucks or something. I like you people, y'all seem like a group that would remain a bit objective on this. Is DA2 worth getting? I want to have the whole story, but if the game's unpleasant, I could just skim the Wiki pages on it, I suppose. Wouldn't be the same, of course, but I'd get the general idea....

Honestly It's not that bad. The worst things with it is the repetitive level desgins,after two playthroughs you will know all the maps of by heart. But man its worth it just for snarky femhawke and angry mhawke. I do warn you though, you will be sick of hearing  the word: blood-magic.

Modifié par Yuqi, 09 mai 2012 - 09:15 .

[kyg_20X6]

Arcataye wrote...

I never edited the post in a way that it would be different. I only added the quote so you know what I'm commenting on.
That quote honestly looks too much of what I see in the general story forum's Liara bashing threads, especially the many rape-threads. If that wasn't your intention and it was a joke, I apologize.

Do I look like a Liara-basher? :innocent:

[Theodoro]

kyg_20X6 wrote...
Now, after playing through ME3 and doing the Liara romance. I can't imagine Liara with a male Shep. I mean, I can but it just seems... 'wrong'. I compared this to imagining a lesbian friend with a guy. For me, Liara is meant to be with FemShep. I think it's partly because I have this history going back through my female Shepard but also I think the divide is narrower between Liara/FemShep and Liara/MaleShep. I think Liara's tenderness, compasion and empathy fit a lot more with FemShep. I just think a MaleShep is a little more removed from what Liara is and would want. That's sort of why I think Tali is great for MaleShep, her idolisation of him (to me) fits better a MaleShep then a female.

In the end, it comes down to subjective opinion. There might be several factors for that. For instance, choosing to pursue a FemShep/Liara romance first instead of the other way around can make it seem 'canon' to you; your mind saves this image of FemShep and Liara being together, and after you try it with MaleShep, it feels weird because it's alien to you. That's true for both the FemShep/Liara and MaleShep/Liara romances.

I personally don't think that one way fits more than the other, both romances are equally 'correct' (an analogy can be used from what Legion said: "Heretics say, one is less than two. Geth say, two is less than three. Neither result is an error." It's all in a person's mind's eye.

What matters in the end is that Liara loves Shepard regardless of his/her gender, and Shepard loves Liara. Both are established characters, and Shepard remains one and the same person whether he/she is male or female, and that's the person Liara loves.

[Arcataye]

kyg_20X6 wrote...
Do I look like a Liara-basher? :innocent:

You're an undercover basher!



What? No! <3

Modifié par Arcataye, 09 mai 2012 - 09:20 .

[rubynorman]

Lizardviking wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

God, that Traynor thread... Elyiia is a saint.

Seriously, there is like an infinite ignorance loop in there. Every time you try to break it you see the same posts of hate/stupidity coming around again, and again.

Are you talking about the "Traynor is a better SB than Liara"? If so, I feel they got a point.

We never see Liara providing us intel or anything, it is always Traynor with EDI's help that spots all those useful things like Grissom academy, Gelix and Sanctuary.

And I am quite aware that we can read emails that says Liara is providing resources etc. And while background events like this is nice I suppose I would much rather have Liara do some shadow broker'y stuff and help Shepard advance the plot. Hopefully DLC can help remedy this somewhat.

I believe that the SB works rely on agents, spies. It's trading informations, organizing, cataloging. While Traynor's works rely on technology. Most of Traynor and EDI's discoveries happen because she tracking/ receiving signals. Their works are different.

Modifié par rubynorman, 09 mai 2012 - 09:22 .

[kyg_20X6]

Lizardviking wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

God, that Traynor thread... Elyiia is a saint.

Seriously, there is like an infinite ignorance loop in there. Every time you try to break it you see the same posts of hate/stupidity coming around again, and again.

Are you talking about the "Traynor is a better SB than Liara"? If so, I feel they got a point.

We never see Liara providing us intel or anything, it is always Traynor with EDI's help that spots all those useful things like Grissom academy, Gelix and Sanctuary.

And I am quite aware that we can read emails that says Liara is providing resources etc. And while background events like this is nice I suppose I would much rather have Liara do some shadow broker'y stuff and help Shepard advance the plot. Hopefully DLC can help remedy this somewhat.

Argued points against that in that thread, do I feel like going through them again?

Well, main points were Liara is focused on what is important, like the Crucible. Traynor has time to get distracted looking through odd bits of data and finds things that not only risk distracting Shepard, but could have backfired or even been traps. They're often based on tenuous leads as well (as she often admits).

They are also not things Shepard should have to bother with. Shepard's mission is building alliances to fight the Reapers and following leads on the Crucible. Shepard shouldn't be dealing with evacuating academies or rescuiing scientists, that should be the Alliance's job. Granted, the player wants to do these things (especially if they know who is at these places). Though, in the narrative, I think Liara tries to stay on track. I wouldn't be surprised if she actually knew about nearly everything Traynor relays (before Traynor did), but just decided Shepard shouldn't get distracted.

My other argument was that if you make Liara as all-knowing as people demand, she'd diminish Traynor into nothingness and negate the threat of Udina, Cerberus and the Reapers. If she's constantly warning you about everything, deflating every threat, she starts to diminish Shepard as the hero too. You have to find a balance. I think BW did. I mean, I'd love Liara to be more omniscient but I understand why she's not. I think they made a good balance between keeping Shepard the hero, making Liara seem like the SB and having Traynor seem relevent and contributing.

If people in that thread had Liara how they wanted, they'd complain Liara is how they wanted.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

rubynorman wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

God, that Traynor thread... Elyiia is a saint.

Seriously, there is like an infinite ignorance loop in there. Every time you try to break it you see the same posts of hate/stupidity coming around again, and again.

Are you talking about the "Traynor is a better SB than Liara"? If so, I feel they got a point.

We never see Liara providing us intel or anything, it is always Traynor with EDI's help that spots all those useful things like Grissom academy, Gelix and Sanctuary.

And I am quite aware that we can read emails that says Liara is providing resources etc. And while background events like this is nice I suppose I would much rather have Liara do some shadow broker'y stuff and help Shepard advance the plot. Hopefully DLC can help remedy this somewhat.

I believe that the SB works rely on agents, spies. It's trading informations, organizing, cataloging. While Traynor's works rely on technology. Most of Traynor and EDI's discoveries happen because she tracking/ receiving signals. Their works are different.

Does not matter. The game could easily have Liara provide us intel which kickstarts sidequest, but aside from with Barla von we never see that happening.

[rubynorman]

If their works are different how can some say Traynor would make a better SB than Liara. That's my point

[kyg_20X6]

Arcataye wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...
Do I look like a Liara-basher? :innocent:

You're an undercover basher!



What? No! <3

Can I just say, I'm still amazed at the character model for Liara. I remember back in ME1 I was just struck speechless by how real she looked. The eyes, the glances, everything. I remember it was her first bashful glance that one my heart. Even in ME3, she just looks so much better than every other character. Her eyes are expressive. The looks she gives you on Mars or the Normandy when you tell her how she means to you. Or throuhout the romance scene. She just works so well with their animation system.

On another note: Anyone notice the really weird reaction Shepard has to Liara's 'gift'. It's not a 'wow, Liara, that was amazing, thank you!'. It was more a 'WTF was that!'. It seems strange and out of place. I think it's the same facial animation Shiala has when she melds with you on Feros.

[Theodoro]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Can I just say, I'm still amazed at the character model for Liara. I remember back in ME1 I was just struck speechless by how real she looked. The eyes, the glances, everything. I remember it was her first bashful glance that one my heart. Even in ME3, she just looks so much better than every other character. Her eyes are expressive. The looks she gives you on Mars or the Normandy when you tell her how she means to you. Or throuhout the romance scene. She just works so well with their animation system.

I've definitely noticed that even in conversations aboard the Normandy alone Liara has a lot more unique animations than the standard ones a lot of other NPCs do when talking to the player. They've really made her look like a real person as early as in ME1 that continued in LotSB. Every facial expression and movement. Even Shepard sometimes looks a bit passive compared to the myriad of different animations for Liara.

kyg_20X6 wrote...

On another note: Anyone notice the really weird reaction Shepard has to Liara's 'gift'. It's not a 'wow, Liara, that was amazing, thank you!'. It was more a 'WTF was that!'. It seems strange and out of place. I think it's the same facial animation Shiala has when she melds with you on Feros.

I don't think it's like that. It's definitely different than the one on Feros. Shepard was just awe-struck by the meld, what it represented, and overwhelmed from the fact that this could be the last moments that he/she has with Liara, afraid that her decision to present this gift to him/her is her way of saying a final goodbye.

Modifié par Theodoro, 09 mai 2012 - 09:37 .

[Yuqi]

Theodoro wrote...

In the end, it comes down to subjective opinion. There might be several factors for that. For instance, choosing to pursue a FemShep/Liara romance first instead of the other way around can make it seem 'canon' to you; your mind saves this image of FemShep and Liara being together, and after you try it with MaleShep, it feels weird because it's alien to you. That's true for both the FemShep/Liara and MaleShep/Liara romances.

I personally don't think that one way fits more than the other, both romances are equally 'correct' (an analogy can be used from what Legion said: "Heretics say, one is less than two. Geth say, two is less than three. Neither result is an error." It's all in a person's mind's eye.

What matters in the end is that Liara loves Shepard regardless of his/her gender, and Shepard loves Liara. Both are established characters, and Shepard remains one and the same person whether he/she is male or female, and that's the person Liara loves.

^This.

(But freckleshep will always look astheticly better with Liara because of colour pyscology.)

[Theodoro]

Yuqi wrote...

(But freckleshep will always look astheticly better with Liara because of colour pyscology.)

Is FreckleShep the new default FemShep?

[DarkCloudd]

Theodoro wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

(But freckleshep will always look astheticly better with Liara because of colour pyscology.)

Is FreckleShep the new default FemShep?

She is the default Femshep in ME3, blame Neehs for making Freckleshep so dam perfect with Liara thanks to those wonderfully, beautifully, sexy gifs she has made.

[Arcataye]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

On another note: Anyone notice the really weird reaction Shepard has to Liara's 'gift'. It's not a 'wow, Liara, that was amazing, thank you!'. It was more a 'WTF was that!'. It seems strange and out of place.

It should've been some calm, knowing expression.

I don't have a suitable screenshot of Shepard's face so here's Liara as an example for the facial expression.
Hmm... not exactly what I'm after but I can't find a better one at the moment, sorry.

Modifié par Arcataye, 09 mai 2012 - 09:51 .

[kyg_20X6]

Yuqi wrote...

Theodoro wrote...

In the end, it comes down to subjective opinion. There might be several factors for that. For instance, choosing to pursue a FemShep/Liara romance first instead of the other way around can make it seem 'canon' to you; your mind saves this image of FemShep and Liara being together, and after you try it with MaleShep, it feels weird because it's alien to you. That's true for both the FemShep/Liara and MaleShep/Liara romances.

*snip*

^This.

(But freckleshep will always look astheticly better with Liara because of colour pyscology.)

Hmm, both my canon Sheps romanced Liara in ME1. I think I actually romanced her with the male Shep first. But he moved to Tali, Fem stayed loyal (partly because there were no better options). But I've come to view my femshep as my real canon and it's just so hard to think of Liara without her (or an alternate universe femshep, say yours, lol). I've seen it from both sides, but only one seems 'right' to me.

For me, I think the best explanation is what I said earlier: Liara's softer personality fits better with a softer femshep, and I think Liara's relationship is more as equals. I think a maleshep is a bit too masculine (NOTE: you don't know how many times I rewrote this sentence, still not sure I explained what I mean...). It's like if you had a scale of personality, Liara/femshep would be closer together than Liara/maleshep, all things being equal. It's hard to explain. And it's weird since the dialogue is the same.

I think it must come down to, IMO, that Hale's performance and the aesthetics of a femshep are more fitting with Hillis' performance, Liara's personality and Liara's aesthetics. Then Meer's performance and maleshep's aesthetics. But that's all subjective.

It was just an interesting observation on myself I find hard to explain. I've played both but one repulses me now (not in the 'disgusted' meaning, in the 'pushing away' meaning). It's strange, curious.

[Theodoro]

On the topic of the new default FemShep, I wanted to ask whether anyone was disappointed they couldn't exactly recreate the FemShep on the Mass Effect 3 cover as well as they should have. She just looks... weird. This is how she looks:



And this is how I thought she would look like:



The difference is not big, but I think that the 'fixed' version looks a lot more real.

[kyg_20X6]

Theodoro wrote...

I don't think it's like that. It's definitely different than the one on Feros. Shepard was just awe-struck by the meld, what it represented, and overwhelmed from the fact that this could be the last moments that he/she has with Liara, afraid that her decision to present this gift to him/her is her way of saying a final goodbye.

That wasn't my impression, but that's cool.

But I'm almost certain Shepard's reaction is Shiala's, repurposed from Feros. I'm usually very quick to spot when BW repurposes something like this (much to the annoyance of my friends, if I'm watching them play, lol).