56469 réponses à ce sujet

[kyg_20X6]

^Thanks for the Gibbed tips!

Also, is this 'top' thing an agreement to have a pic of Liara in the first post of each page? If so, forgive my unfamiliarity. I will rectify that in the future. 

Does it need to be something new? (something borrowed, I know it has to be something blue)

EDIT: Added a 'top' to one a few pages back. This is fun.

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 09 mai 2012 - 12:02 .

[Aristobulus500]

Wow, I go to sleep for a few hours and the thread explodes. Thought that there must've been some earth shattering news like Liara's VA revealing something about Liara's role in the ending...just a new poster bringing up a ton of subjects.

Well, let me cover a few...

[quote]kyg_20X6 wrote...
You've got to remember, BW have to balance things between characters. Liara wasn't meant to be special. Through a series of decisions they made, she just happens to be the one character that survives the series. Which gives them extra flexibility with her. But I don't think they ever intended her to be bigger than the other squadmates. Becoming SB gave her a more important position in the ME-verse, and her survivability allowed her to be more integrated into the ME3 storyline. But that's already pissing a lot of people off, who (unreasonably, since they can die) want equal treatment for their characters. I too would have liked to see more from Liara as SB but it would be unfair for me to demand that if it'd mean less for other people's favourites or new characters. I'm content with my lot. (Well, not counting the endings!)

If anything, I wish Liara was a little less 'business' in ME3. I rekindled our romance and was disappointed by that first conversation on the Citadel where she just tells me to talk to Barla Von. Or post-Thessia when I can't comfort & hug her and only get her back to work. Or when I take her on the final mission and all she says is, 'I'm honored to be a part of your team'. Or how every time I come down to fool around she's busy at her terminal!
[/quote]

Bioware didn't HAVE to do anything. It's actually poor writing to downplay a character like Liara if it's out of character - and it is. What they should've done is just let what should naturally happen, happen. They needed to focus on writing the most in character, consistent story they could.

The fact of the matter is they gave Liara an extremely powerful role, and then...didn't do anything with it. Because they realized "well **** that's a lot of power! Let's just ignore it." That's bull****. If they couldn't handle writing her with all that power, they never should've given her the role in the first place, but since they did, they needed to just sack up and write her with all the power it entails.

Instead they had everything that should've come from Liara...come from some nobody in Traynor instead. It's an insult and it doesn't make sense. It's just flat out bad writing. I'm not going to call Liara a bad information broker - she clearly isn't, and you're clearly not supposed to think she is, but the writers did so little with her as the SB that it's very easy to get that impression - they spend so much time telling you Liara is good at it that they forget to often show you.

But I'm all aboard the wish for Liara to have some more romance scenes throughout the games. You do so little rekindling with her - especially after the drought in ME2, only having LotSB...I wanted more, man. The romance scenes you get are great, and I loved how Shep/Liara actually showed care and love for eachother at times even outside of the romance scenes - the way they regard eachother on Mars, that "Flatterer" scene, etc. but there should've been more. There's a huge section of the game where Liara/Shep just don't do anything at all together until the scene before Cronos station. Like, come on.

[quote]kyg_20X6 wrote...
Interesting, I think you might be right (on most of that^).

I wonder, would the partner know if they'd exchanged DNA? Like, I wonder if Liara could have just decided, perhaps in the spur of the moment, during the romance scene that this was the time, Shepard was who she wanted, and did it. Then maybe she'd decide to hold of telling Shepard (given the knowledge might be a distraction/burden, going into what they were going into).

Just a thought.

[/quote]

Yes, the partner would know. Asari reproduction requires consent. I really wish you wouldn't drag that garbage theory about "...maybe Liara raped Shepard" in here. It's totally nonsensical and completely misses the point on the character of Liara, and the way Asari work. It's so completely missing the point I'm not going to dignify it with a real response other than to shut it down with a "No, that's not how it works. Liara didn't, and couldn't, and wouldn't, rape Shepard"

Just read the "Can Wait" series, it covers mind melding in a very beautiful, intricate, detailed manner that really shows off how it's likely to work.

quote]Theodoro wrote...

[quote]kyg_20X6 wrote...
Now, after playing through ME3 and doing the Liara romance. I can't imagine Liara with a male Shep. I mean, I can but it just seems... 'wrong'. I compared this to imagining a lesbian friend with a guy. For me, Liara is meant to be with FemShep. I think it's partly because I have this history going back through my female Shepard but also I think the divide is narrower between Liara/FemShep and Liara/MaleShep. I think Liara's tenderness, compasion and empathy fit a lot more with FemShep. I just think a MaleShep is a little more removed from what Liara is and would want. That's sort of why I think Tali is great for MaleShep, her idolisation of him (to me) fits better a MaleShep then a female.
[/quote]

In the end, it comes down to subjective opinion. There might be several factors for that. For instance, choosing to pursue a FemShep/Liara romance first instead of the other way around can make it seem 'canon' to you; your mind saves this image of FemShep and Liara being together, and after you try it with MaleShep, it feels weird because it's alien to you. That's true for both the FemShep/Liara and MaleShep/Liara romances.

I personally don't think that one way fits more than the other, both romances are equally 'correct' (an analogy can be used from what Legion said: "Heretics say, one is less than two. Geth say, two is less than three. Neither result is an error." It's all in a person's mind's eye.

What matters in the end is that Liara loves Shepard regardless of his/her gender, and Shepard loves Liara. Both are established characters, and Shepard remains one and the same person whether he/she is male or female, and that's the person Liara loves.
[/quote]

I am finding myself really liking your posting, Theo. I'm finding myself agreeing with almost everything you post - and here is no different. You said exactly what I wanted to - the thing you are missing, Kyg, is that the reason you think FemShep/Liara is canon...is that's the first Shepard you played that REALLY romanced Liara. Sure, your MaleShep was the first to romance her in ME1...but your FemShep was the one to stay loyal to her. Can I also guess that you played your FemShep more paragon than MaleShep, and your MaleShep you played more action hero-y? This is all on you. Of course you think FemShep is more canon and fitting for Liara. There's nothing wrong with that, but you can't act as if it's basically wrong for someone to play a MaleShep romancing Liara.

I played a MaleShep. I think my Shep had a ton of chemistry with Liara, and it's that chemistry that drove me to care so much about Liara that she's my favorite character - in pretty much any medium. So I don't take to you talking that down.

Especially because, well, I just think you're wrong. I think you're wrong that either is more fitting - even as a MaleShep I won't say that MaleShep is more fitting - I think gender is not the thing you should be looking at. Certainly Liara doesn't - she falls for both MaleShep and FemShep. I think what you want to look at, when you argue what's fitting, is the character of the Shepard - Renegade or Paragon, how that Shepard treats Liara and other people. I can and will vehemently argue that Renegades make no sense with Liara, and that Paragons suit her perfectly. To the point, this is backed up too because in ME1 the characters are actually assigned Paragon and Renegade scores, and Liara has the highest Paragon score, short of, maybe, Paragoning Kaidan? Not sure the specifics. What that means is throughout ME1, Liara will generally be the one arguing in favor of making the Paragon decisions throughout the game. The writers simply didn't want to disallow you from any content just because of your moral choices, as Dragon Age did, and I firmly believe this is a weakness that also hurts the strength of the characters, makes them seem as if they do not really believe anything, that they will immediately forget your actions the second after you do them and treat your Shepard exactly the same.

It certainly was a strength of both Dragon Age: Origins and Alpha Protocol, that characters responded to, and remembered, your major moral decisions and liked you more or less based on them, because they had their own sets of morals and beliefs and of course a main character that plays to those standards they will like more.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...
You've got to remember, BW have to balance things between characters. Liara wasn't meant to be special. Through a series of decisions they made, she just happens to be the one character that survives the series. Which gives them extra flexibility with her. But I don't think they ever intended her to be bigger than the other squadmates. Becoming SB gave her a more important position in the ME-verse, and her survivability allowed her to be more integrated into the ME3 storyline. But that's already pissing a lot of people off, who (unreasonably, since they can die) want equal treatment for their characters. I too would have liked to see more from Liara as SB but it would be unfair for me to demand that if it'd mean less for other people's favourites or new characters. I'm content with my lot. (Well, not counting the endings!)

If anything, I wish Liara was a little less 'business' in ME3. I rekindled our romance and was disappointed by that first conversation on the Citadel where she just tells me to talk to Barla Von. Or post-Thessia when I can't comfort & hug her and only get her back to work. Or when I take her on the final mission and all she says is, 'I'm honored to be a part of your team'. Or how every time I come down to fool around she's busy at her terminal!

Bioware didn't HAVE to do anything. It's actually poor writing to downplay a character like Liara if it's out of character - and it is. What they should've done is just let what should naturally happen, happen. They needed to focus on writing the most in character, consistent story they could.

The fact of the matter is they gave Liara an extremely powerful role, and then...didn't do anything with it. Because they realized "well **** that's a lot of power! Let's just ignore it." That's bull****. If they couldn't handle writing her with all that power, they never should've given her the role in the first place, but since they did, they needed to just sack up and write her with all the power it entails.

Instead they had everything that should've come from Liara...come from some nobody in Traynor instead. It's an insult and it doesn't make sense. It's just flat out bad writing. I'm not going to call Liara a bad information broker - she clearly isn't, and you're clearly not supposed to think she is, but the writers did so little with her as the SB that it's very easy to get that impression - they spend so much time telling you Liara is good at it that they forget to often show you.

Thank you for writing this. It is exactly how I feel about Liara's role as the SB in ME3.

As for the part of your post about Liara being paragon. She is the second most paragon squadmate, only beaten by Kaidan who is the most paragon by default (but can be turned into the most renegade).

[Arcataye]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

I played a MaleShep. I think my Shep had a ton of chemistry with Liara, and it's that chemistry that drove me to care so much about Liara that she's my favorite character - in pretty much any medium.

Yep, if one of the other Shepards was "better" than the other, there would only be players of one gender here.
They're both fine, it's just personal preference and what you're used to.

[Yuqi]

Arcataye wrote...
Yep, if one of the other Shepards was "better" than the other, there would only be players of one gender here.
They're both fine, it's just personal preference and what you're used to.

That makes no sense. I mostly play Broshep and I'm a chick. So  if broshep was considered better, that makes me a dude?

Modifié par Yuqi, 09 mai 2012 - 12:52 .

[kyg_20X6]

So much for sleep...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Wow, I go to sleep for a few hours and the thread explodes. Thought that there must've been some earth shattering news like Liara's VA revealing something about Liara's role in the ending...just a new poster bringing up a ton of subjects.

Sorry, would you prefer I didn't?

Yes, the partner would know. Asari reproduction requires consent. I really wish you wouldn't drag that garbage theory about "...maybe Liara raped Shepard" in here. It's totally nonsensical and completely misses the point on the character of Liara, and the way Asari work. It's so completely missing the point I'm not going to dignify it with a real response other than to shut it down with a "No, that's not how it works. Liara didn't, and couldn't, and wouldn't, rape Shepard"

...

Ok, this is starting to get me angry. I didn't say she 'raped' him, I even posted again clarifying that. His theory led to that conclusion. You look at one post in a sequence and jump to conclusions. Do you think a Liara fan would say she 'raped' Shepard?

(Had to delete some swearing there, was getting carried away. Just don't like people misrepresenting me and then attacking me for it.)

...the thing you are missing, Kyg, is that the reason you think FemShep/Liara is canon...is that's the first Shepard you played that REALLY romanced Liara. Sure, your MaleShep was the first to romance her in ME1...but your FemShep was the one to stay loyal to her. Can I also guess that you played your FemShep more paragon than MaleShep, and your MaleShep you played more action hero-y? This is all on you. Of course you think FemShep is more canon and fitting for Liara. There's nothing wrong with that, but you can't act as if it's basically wrong for someone to play a MaleShep romancing Liara.

No, both my ME1 Shepards were pretty much identical. In fact, my femshep was a little more bloodthirsty with Bartarians due to colonist background (she shot Balak in every limb, got the info, then killed him). 

And, once again, you twist my words...  You can't tell me how to think. If someone romancing Liara with a maleshep is 'weird' to me, what is wrong with that? I'm not saying it's wrong of them or that they shouldn't do it. I don't troll them or try to censor them. I'm just stating something I observed of myself, my own reaction and thought it might make interesting discussion. Some self-analysis. I was trying to be quite conciliatory about it. Looks like some people can't escape a combative POV. <_<

I played a MaleShep. I think my Shep had a ton of chemistry with Liara, and it's that chemistry that drove me to care so much about Liara that she's my favorite character - in pretty much any medium. So I don't take to you talking that down.

*sigh* See above.

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 09 mai 2012 - 12:39 .

[Aristobulus500]

Yuqi wrote...

Arcataye wrote...
Yep, if one of the other Shepards was "better" than the other, there would only be players of one gender here.
They're both fine, it's just personal preference and what you're used to.

That makes no sense. I mostly play Broshep and I'm a chick,  so  if broshep was considered better that makes me a dude?

You're reading it wrong. He means that there would only be BroShep or FemShep players. Not that the people behind the Sheps would be exclusively male or female. That is, if BroShep or FemShep was unequivocally the better fit for Liara, then all of us in this thread would be playing that gender Shep.

Sorry, would you prefer I didn't?

Sorry, you read me wrong - I was simply stating my surprise. I came to this thread for the entire purpose of having in depth discussions and such, so of course I welcome it.

Ok, this is starting to get me angry. I didn't say she 'raped' him, I even posted again clarifying that. His theory led to that conclusion. You look at one post in a sequence and jump to conclusions. Do you think a Liara fan would say she 'raped' Shepard?

(Had to delete some swearing there, was getting carried away. Just don't like people misrepresenting me and then attacking me for it.)[/b]

Maybe you don't intend to argue that Liara raped Shepard, but can you not see how your arguments are the very same ones that Liara-haters will use to justify that theory? They say - well Asari can perhaps simply take DNA during a mind meld without the partner knowing, Liara melds with Shepard multiple times and especially in London, Shepard looks confused afterwards - it's a lot of the same points you. You're backing them up even if you don't intend, or even want, to.

And no, I don't think a Liara fan would intentionally say Liara raped Shepard. I just think you're not thinking the consequences of your arguments through here.

No, both my ME1 Shepards were pretty much identical. In fact, my femshep was a little more bloodthirsty with Bartarians due to colonist background (she shot Balak in every limb, got the info, then killed him). 

And, once again, you twist my words...  You can't tell me how to think. If someone romancing Liara with a maleshep is 'weird' to me, what is wrong with that? I'm not saying it's wrong of them or that they shouldn't do it. I don't troll them or try to censor them. I'm just stating something I observed of myself, my own reaction and thought it might make interesting discussion. I was trying to be quite conciliatory about it. Looks like some people can't escape a combative POV. <_<

Yet it was still your FemShep that was the first to actually stay loyal to Liara and stick with her romance entirely. For your MaleShep, Liara was just a fling. For your FemShep, Liara was her lover.

You say here you're just trying to state what you felt, but you did it so strongly it really feels like an attack on all MaleShep players, as if you're saying they could not possibly have a Shepard that really fits Liara as well, as if they were playing a FemShep. If you didn't intend that, watch your tone, you came on really strong against MaleShep and pro-FemShep.

Modifié par Aristobulus500, 09 mai 2012 - 12:48 .

[Theodoro]

Are we talking about Liara's gift in London? Or the scene before Cronos Station?
Asari physiology aside, whether conception actually happens with or without consent, whether the partner knows or not, it's Liara. No Liara I know of would 'rape' Shepard or anything of the kind, even if she could.

This is something that she would absolutely want to discuss with Shepard first. Sure, they talked about little blue children and everything, but they haven't talked about whether they're actually read for such a commitment, not with the war still going on.

Modifié par Theodoro, 09 mai 2012 - 12:56 .

[Aristobulus500]

Theodoro wrote...

Are we talking about Liara's gift in London? Or the scene before Cronos Station?
Asari physiology aside, whether conception actually happens with or without consent, whether the partner knows or not, it's Liara. No Liara I know of would 'rape' Shepard or anything of the kind, even if she could.

People who make the argument that Liara raped Shepard are not going to be Liaramancers so they are referring to the London gift scene.

And yes, you're exactly right. Liara wouldn't do something so horrible to Shepard. Again, keep in mind the goals and mindsets of the people making these arguments. They hate Liara and wish simply to twist anything and everything to any extreme, to make Liara look as bad as possible so they can justify their hatred.

[Yuqi]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Arcataye wrote...
Yep, if one of the other Shepards was "better" than the other, there would only be players of one gender here.
They're both fine, it's just personal preference and what you're used to.

That makes no sense. I mostly play Broshep and I'm a chick,  so  if broshep was considered better that makes me a dude?

You're reading it wrong. He means that there would only be BroShep or FemShep players. Not that the people behind the Sheps would be exclusively male or female. That is, if BroShep or FemShep was unequivocally the better fit for Liara, then all of us in this thread would be playing that gender Shep.

Ahh okay, got it.

Modifié par Yuqi, 09 mai 2012 - 01:05 .

[kyg_20X6]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Maybe you don't intend to argue that Liara raped Shepard, but can you not see how your arguments are the very same ones that Liara-haters will use to justify that theory? They say - well Asari can perhaps simply take DNA during a mind meld without the partner knowing, Liara melds with Shepard multiple times and especially in London, Shepard looks confused afterwards - it's a lot of the same points you. You're backing them up even if you don't intend, or even want, to.

And no, I don't think a Liara fan would intentionally say Liara raped Shepard. I just think you're not thinking the consequences of your arguments through here.

Jesus, it was a light-hearted discussion that flowed rapidly (which began in another thread and I was asked to bring it here). He posed an idea, I countered. Trying to get to a truth. It's like a Platonic dialogue or Devil's Advocate. Maybe you shouldn't be so touchy or maybe read everything first and put it into context. People, man...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Yet it was still your FemShep that was the first to actually stay loyal to Liara and stick with her romance entirely. For your MaleShep, Liara was just a fling. For your FemShep, Liara was her lover.

You say here you're just trying to state what you felt, but you did it so strongly it really feels like an attack on all MaleShep players, as if you're saying they could not possibly have a Shepard that really fits Liara as well, as if they were playing a FemShep. If you didn't intend that, watch your tone, you came on really strong against MaleShep and pro-FemShep.

I did not come on that strongly. I think in nearly every single post I tried to convey it was just my opinion. I wasn't even sure where I stood on it, could barely explain it. It's just a reaction, a feeling. I didn't say it was right or wrong. I think YOU are just too defensive. Don't look for enemies where there aren't any.

And WTF is this **** in bold (above)? I didn't say that. I was trying to explain why I feel how I do. I wasn't judging anyone else, or saying their experience is anything less than mine. Just my experience with Liara, I find it strange. I was trying to understand why. I said time and again that it's not easy to explain. I find it hard to imagine how I could have been conciliatory.

I thought who better to think this matter out with then other Liara fans. Hmm...

I'm sort of glad you weren't on earlier, or I might not have had the positive experience I had in here earlier. I'm very tempted to get angry here but I'm not going to. I'd rather hope we can come to understand eachother here and move on.

A peace offering: :innocent:

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 09 mai 2012 - 01:25 .

[Yuqi]

entrambi appena arresto! Il maschio o la femmina non importa! Entrambi sono gli stessi!

[rubynorman]

I think Kyg_20X6's questions are ok. He just said his opinion and we discussed it to find out the "truth". I learn a lot when I discuss these subjects with him and every body. It's different from discussing with the haters because we accept the truth, the outcome of our arguments. He just said what he feels about FShep x Liara and why he doesn't like his MShep x Liara.

[Aristobulus500]

Jesus, it was a light-hearted discussion that flowed rapidly (which began in another thread and I was asked to bring it here). He posed an idea, I countered. Trying to get to a truth. It's like a Platonic dialogue or Devil's Advocate. Maybe you shouldn't be so touchy or maybe read everything first and put it into context. People, man...

I admit I argue strongly. I know this. And the subject of "Liara raping Shepard" is one I'm very touchy about. I take it personally because it's not just an attack on Liara, it's an attack on Liara fans such as me because my own character would be lessened - I shouldn't like a rapist like this, after all. They vehemently tear down Liara also in an attempt to attack Liara fans, really, so that they can say "She is a bad character and thus you are a bad person for liking her, your tastes are creepy, awkward and backwards"

So, you meant it light-heartedly. That's okay, but I'm coming at this from a perspective of having faced quite a bit of people that did not mean it light heartedly, but actually rather viciously and cruelly.

And again, those arguments support those kinds of people, whether or not you realize it or intend it. At this point, I'm not attacking you, as I realize what you were doing and your innocent intentions now, I'm attacking the arguments you made, and where they come from and their history and connections. Which I simply think you were just not aware of.

I did not come on that strongly. I think in nearly every single post I tried to convey it was just my opinion. I wasn't even sure where I stood on it, could barely explain it. It's just a reaction, a feeling. I didn't say it was right or wrong. I think YOU are just too defensive. Don't look for enemies where there aren't any.

Well, I also aimed to address your concern at where it came from in my post. It came from your FemShep being the first you took so strongly to Liara with.

And WTF is this **** in bold (above)? I didn't say that. I was trying to explain why I feel how I do. I wasn't judging anyone else, or saying their experience is anything less than mine. Just my experience with Liara, I find it strange. I was trying to understand why. I said time and again that it's not easy to explain. I find it hard to imagine how I could have been conciliatory.

It sure felt as if you were judging people. So I responded as such. Honestly, you're coming off better to me now than you were in those first posts. I'm getting a better idea of your intentions here - you simply seemed rather vitriolic in your original posts.

It did seem like an attack on MaleShep players, even if you didn't mean it. And I believe you, when you say you didn't mean it.

I thought who better to think this matter out with then other Liara fans. Hmm...

I'm sort of glad you weren't on earlier, or I might not have had the positive experience I had in here earlier. I'm very tempted to get angry here but I'm not going to. I'd rather hope we can come to understand eachother here and move on.

Hopefully. I do think I'm getting a better picture of you now. I mistook confusion and questioning, for malice.

A peace offering: :innocent:

If you want art, let me dig up some of my favorite art of Liara...it's all old, but it's easily my favorite.

This one is my single favorite piece I have - it's such a magnificent interpretation of Thessia, and really makes me want to explore THIS Thessia, and really resent the Thessia we got in ME3. This one si so peaceful, casual, yet magnificent at the same time.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/5e6fg.jpg[/img

This one I just think is a really cool image, very aesthetically pleasing, smooth look, and the color scheme is nice.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/ylNmt.jpg[/img]

This one I really like for how sleek it looks, and that casual clothing really looks like something I can see Asari wearing on Thessia, among their own kind, when away from business and all that.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/UTqFS.png[/img]

This last one I use as my desktop wallpaper, and I like it for much of the same reasons as that first Thessia picture - it's a rare look at a casual, every day life, in just being a glimpse of Liara in casual clothing in a basic room on Illium, with that view.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/D07no.jpg[/img]

Modifié par Aristobulus500, 09 mai 2012 - 01:27 .

[Akernis]

Yuqi wrote...

entrambi appena arresto! Il maschio o la femmina non importa! Entrambi sono gli stessi!

In  english please? I failed my french finals twice  .

Modifié par Akernis, 09 mai 2012 - 01:33 .

[Aristobulus500]

Akernis wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

entrambi appena arresto! Il maschio o la femmina non importa! Entrambi sono gli stessi!

I  english please? I failed my french finals twice  .

It's Italian. He's pleading with us to stop arguing about MaleShep/FemShep because it's a moot point and doesn't matter.

I don't speak Italian, I used google translate, by the way, before I give off the wrong impression.

[rubynorman]

Akernis wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

entrambi appena arresto! Il maschio o la femmina non importa! Entrambi sono gli stessi!

I  english please? I failed my french finals twice  .

http://translate.google.com/#auto|en|entrambi%20appena%20arresto!%20Il%20maschio%20o%20la%20femmina%20non%20importa!%20Entrambi%20sono%20gli%20stessi!

-ed by Aristobulus500

Modifié par rubynorman, 09 mai 2012 - 01:33 .

[Akernis]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Akernis wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

entrambi appena arresto! Il maschio o la femmina non importa! Entrambi sono gli stessi!

I  english please? I failed my french finals twice  .

It's Italian. He's pleading with us to stop arguing about MaleShep/FemShep because it's a moot point and doesn't matter.

I don't speak Italian, I used google translate, by the way, before I give off the wrong impression.

Okay now I am just embarrished, I can Latin, but not even recognise Italian .

[Aristobulus500]

Akernis wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Akernis wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

entrambi appena arresto! Il maschio o la femmina non importa! Entrambi sono gli stessi!

I  english please? I failed my french finals twice  .

It's Italian. He's pleading with us to stop arguing about MaleShep/FemShep because it's a moot point and doesn't matter.

I don't speak Italian, I used google translate, by the way, before I give off the wrong impression.

Okay now I am just embarrished, I can Latin, but not even recognise Italian .

Don't take it too hard. The only reason I knew it was Italian is because Yuqi has posted before that he speaks Italian.

[kyg_20X6]

rubynorman wrote...

I think Kyg_20X6's questions are ok. He just said his opinion and we discussed it to find out the "truth". I learn a lot when I discuss these subjects with him and every body. It's different from discussing with the haters because we accept the truth, the outcome of our arguments. He just said what he feels about FShep x Liara and why he doesn't like his MShep x Liara.

Yes, thank you my friend.

If I was judging anyone, it was myself. I was just examining how I felt and perhaps why I felt it. I don't think it's 'wrong' for me to have that POV, or the inverse in others. I just found it interesting why I felt what I did. It seems like when I described my mentality, people took that and ran. And didn't realise I was analysing it myself. I wasn't trying to push it on others, I was just opening myself up.

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Hopefully. I do think I'm getting a better picture of you now. I mistook confusion and questioning, for malice.

Yay! (Also, some of those pics weren't showing because of imgur. Didn't see them until I went to reply. Thanks tho!)

Anyway, hope that's cleared up and I don't wake up in the morning to find this has kicked off again.

Good night! (for realz this time)

FYI: I'm in Australia (if you're wondering why I'm going to bed at, what is probably, such an odd hour).

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 09 mai 2012 - 01:53 .

[Rolling Flame]

Just thought I'd add my two cents on the Liara/SB situation.

Personally, it doesn't bother me, because I know Liara is focused on helping build the Crucible, which is the most important operation of the war. Naturally, the reason Traynor finds Grissom Academy/Sanctuary/Cerberus Scientists is so she actually is relevant to the story, otherwise she'd be a nothing character in a ManShep playthough, and the token lesbian in a FemShep one.

One of the things that does bother me is when people use Wrex to point out that Liara wasn't doing her job. They fail to acknowledge that Mordin/Wiks leaked it directly to him. How would Liara, or anyone else for that matter, known about it if that was the case.

As for Cerberus, I don't think people are thinking things through fully here. The old Broker knew a helluva lot about the organisation because he had many agents infiltrating its ranks. Then, Cerberus decides to actively use Reaper tech to not only enhance the effectiveness of its soldiers, but to ensure their loyalty, through indoctrination and conditioning. Naturally, any Broker agent in Cerberus who chose to be integrated would become an fanatical Cerberus trooper, while any that tried to resist would either be killed, or forced to run, and could not be used by Liara in any furhter operations against Cerberus, as they keep records on who abandons them.

Besides, there are already enough people whinging about how much screen time Liara got. Could you imagine how much worse it would be if she had Traynor's role, as well?

[Robhuzz]

Instead they had everything that should've come from Liara...come from some nobody in Traynor instead. It's an insult and it doesn't make sense. It's just flat out bad writing. I'm not going to call Liara a bad information broker - she clearly isn't, and you're clearly not supposed to think she is, but the writers did so little with her as the SB that it's very easy to get that impression - they spend so much time telling you Liara is good at it that they forget to often show you.

Many of the things Liara apparently didn't know (and thus came from the Alliance brass through Traynor) can be explained by Liara having lost a lot of agents since the Reapers invaded and most of her archives when Cerberus attacked. Meaning everything she's got now is current information gathered from the agents still in the field, whose numbers are dwindling.

I really don't mind it either. I feel despite being an incredibly important and powerful character, they don't need to overdo it by having her be responsible for every single piece of information and mission you get during the game.

Just my 2 cents

Modifié par Robhuzz, 09 mai 2012 - 01:48 .

[Tyranniac]

Robhuzz wrote...

Instead they had everything that should've come from Liara...come from some nobody in Traynor instead. It's an insult and it doesn't make sense. It's just flat out bad writing. I'm not going to call Liara a bad information broker - she clearly isn't, and you're clearly not supposed to think she is, but the writers did so little with her as the SB that it's very easy to get that impression - they spend so much time telling you Liara is good at it that they forget to often show you.

Many of the things Liara apparently didn't know (and thus came from the Alliance brass through Traynor) can be explained by Liara having lost a lot of agents since the Reapers invaded.

I really don't mind it either. I feel despite being an incredibly important and powerful character, they don't need to overdo it by having her be responsible for every single piece of information and mission you get during the game.

Just my 2 cents

 


I agree, also,  I think we can agree Liara isn't nearly as ruthless as the old Shadow Broker, so that would probably limit the available information as well.

[Theodoro]

Rolling Flame wrote...

Personally, it doesn't bother me, because I know Liara is focused on helping build the Crucible, which is the most important operation of the war. Naturally, the reason Traynor finds Grissom Academy/Sanctuary/Cerberus Scientists is so she actually is relevant to the story, otherwise she'd be a nothing character in a ManShep playthough, and the token lesbian in a FemShep one.

That's just it. They didn't need to introduce Traynor, and in that way, they wouldn't needed to make her more important and actually relevant to the story. In the ideal scenario, they would have found a way to keep Kelly in as a yeoman aboard the ship, keep her fans happy, and Liara would have handled all the information that comes through Traynor as she obviously has the necessary resources to acquire it.

I mean, all the way from ME1 we've learned just how powerful and influential the Shadow Broker can be, and yet, when Liara assumes control of that position, she rarely does utilize it. Honestly, if BioWare deemed it plausible for Liara to be the SB, then they would have also given her the ability to deal with all this intel that comes from being the SB, expanding on that, in a way. I'm not saying that the concept of having the SB at your side is completely forgotten, but I felt that it could have had a much bigger impact than that.

Top:

Modifié par Theodoro, 09 mai 2012 - 02:01 .

[Yuqi]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Akernis wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

entrambi appena arresto! Il maschio o la femmina non importa! Entrambi sono gli stessi!

I  english please? I failed my french finals twice  .

It's Italian. He's pleading with us to stop arguing about MaleShep/FemShep because it's a moot point and doesn't matter.

I don't speak Italian, I used google translate, by the way, before I give off the wrong impression.

Quello è che cosa ho significato sì. A proposito sono lei non lui. I troppo stanco ora scrivere notte di inglese.

Ho avuto abbastanza di intero shepard femminile contro l'edizione maschio di shepard. Nessuno la considera è molto irritante ai ventilatori di entrambi pure?<_<

buona notte

Modifié par Yuqi, 09 mai 2012 - 02:02 .