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Liara Fans: keep your love blue and true!


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#36001
Arcataye

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No need to overdo it, she doesn't have to know absolutely everything.
Just some sidemissions? Something more than just that Barla Von crap.

"Scan the planet Rothla to find the Shadow Broker Wet Squad, a valuable War Asset. Once you have procured the war asset, travel back to the Citadel and speak with Barla Von to complete the mission."

Anything! It was totally wasted potential. If I fill my wall with monitors would I be the Shadow Broker?
I know that she does a lot behind the scenes, but as a game that's not enough because it could have been more.

Modifié par Arcataye, 09 mai 2012 - 02:01 .


#36002
Akernis

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Rolling Flame wrote...

Just thought I'd add my two cents on the Liara/SB situation.

Personally, it doesn't bother me, because I know Liara is focused on helping build the Crucible, which is the most important operation of the war. Naturally, the reason Traynor finds Grissom Academy/Sanctuary/Cerberus Scientists is so she actually is relevant to the story, otherwise she'd be a nothing character in a ManShep playthough, and the token lesbian in a FemShep one.

One of the things that does bother me is when people use Wrex to point out that Liara wasn't doing her job. They fail to acknowledge that Mordin/Wiks leaked it directly to him. How would Liara, or anyone else for that matter, known about it if that was the case.

As for Cerberus, I don't think people are thinking things through fully here. The old Broker knew a helluva lot about the organisation because he had many agents infiltrating its ranks. Then, Cerberus decides to actively use Reaper tech to not only enhance the effectiveness of its soldiers, but to ensure their loyalty, through indoctrination and conditioning. Naturally, any Broker agent in Cerberus who chose to be integrated would become an fanatical Cerberus trooper, while any that tried to resist would either be killed, or forced to run, and could not be used by Liara in any furhter operations against Cerberus, as they keep records on who abandons them.

Besides, there are already enough people whinging about how much screen time Liara got. Could you imagine how much worse it would be if she had Traynor's role, as well?


Good points, with which I agree.
Another thing is that very little of what Liara does as the Shadow Broker actually affects Shepard personally. She uses agents to report on reaper activities in the wider theatres of war and assists with material and people the Crucible's contruction. She aslo helps and reports on evacuations and (would be my guess) uses her connections to keeps peace and alliances behind the scenes. And that is with her network being chewed through by the reapers.
None of which are things that Shepard is personally involved in.  
One would also have to cut her some slack about how much she is physically able to do, she has to handle the single largest information network in the galaxy as well as accompanying Shepard on ground operations (which in my playthroughs is rather often), she even does a "pesonal project" that involves giving the future a chance should the current races fail here, if she does not have time to personally analyse some data about Grissom academy etc. I wouldn't take that out on her.
Traynor dosen's have anything else to do than analyse data sent to the Normandy (and inform Shepard about new messages, as if I couldn't check that myself...) so if she finds something interesting so much the better for Sheaprd.
Of course I would have prefered that the info came from Liara but I can accept the way it is.
Though the new extra non-squad characters like Traynor and Cortez were nice enough they don't really do anything for me.  
 
Though I certainly agrees with Lizardviking and Aristobulus that we don't really get the impression of how much she actually does.   

Edit: but to be perfectly honest I don't really need to see what she does to trust that she is deoing a splendid job, While I ould like to see more  of her Shadow Brokeirng I am actually not that bothered with what we have. It just rubs me the wrong way when people start accusing her of being bad at her work (even if they are haters who word has abo****ely zero credebility in my eyes). 

Modifié par Akernis, 09 mai 2012 - 02:12 .


#36003
kumquats

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Aristobulus500 wrote...

I think what you want to look at, when you argue what's fitting, is the character of the Shepard - Renegade or Paragon, how that Shepard treats Liara and other people. I can and will vehemently argue that Renegades make no sense with Liara, and that Paragons suit her perfectly. To the point, this is backed up too because in ME1 the characters are actually assigned Paragon and Renegade scores, and Liara has the highest Paragon score, short of, maybe, Paragoning Kaidan? Not sure the specifics. What that means is throughout ME1, Liara will generally be the one arguing in favor of making the Paragon decisions throughout the game.


Yeah well, in your opinion, no romance I create would be backed up by the game.  I always pair up two very different personalitys.  I mean, when Jack starts mocking my Paragon, that's pure delight for me. ^.^
Dragon Age:O actually took that option away, I have to manipulate them into liking my character, I don't have any freedom at all.
DA2 rivalmance ftw. Why shouldn't two people who have different opinions, not fall in love with each other. Doesn't make any sense.
Carth Onasi + Sith Lord Revan, has the most romantic moment in a video game. Sadly Carth is a fool...

[Edit:] Liara and her role as a SB doesn't bother me. She wanted to infiltrate the Council and had to change plans. It's not like she doesn't do anything. On the other hand I wouldn't cry if she was part of the Illium DLC. It would be nice to see her in Shadow Brokery action. I love her power. <3

Modifié par kumquats, 09 mai 2012 - 02:07 .


#36004
Robhuzz

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Theodoro wrote...

Rolling Flame wrote...

Personally, it doesn't bother me, because I know Liara is focused on helping build the Crucible, which is the most important operation of the war. Naturally, the reason Traynor finds Grissom Academy/Sanctuary/Cerberus Scientists is so she actually is relevant to the story, otherwise she'd be a nothing character in a ManShep playthough, and the token lesbian in a FemShep one.


That's just it. They didn't need to introduce Traynor, and in that way, they wouldn't needed to make her more important and actually relevant to the story. In the ideal scenario, they would have found a way to keep Kelly in as a yeoman aboard the ship, keep her fans happy, and Liara would have handled all the information that comes through Traynor as she obviously has the necessary resources to acquire it.

I mean, all the way from ME1 we've learned just how powerful and influential the Shadow Broker can be, and yet, when Liara assumes control of that position, she rarely does utilize it. Honestly, if BioWare deemed it plausible for Liara to be the SB, then they would have also given her the ability to deal with all this intel that comes from being the SB, expanding on that, in a way. I'm not saying that the concept of having the SB at your side is completely forgotten, but I felt that it could have had a much bigger impact than that.

Top:

*snip*


The character Traynor was obviously introduced to give femSheps a lesbian romance, she really didn't add too much extra to the game (though I liked her character) just like Cortez. Both seem - to me at least - essentially redundant characters added for the sole purpose of being a gay LI. 

In order to try and make it less obvious, they gave both her and cortez something to do aboard the ship. I agree though that Liara could've easily taken over Traynor's information stuff while EDI could've handled the messages just like she did after Kelly was abducted. And I think I better leave it at this. This is the Liara thread after all=]

Modifié par Robhuzz, 09 mai 2012 - 02:10 .


#36005
Akernis

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Robhuzz wrote...

Theodoro wrote...

Rolling Flame wrote...

Personally, it doesn't bother me, because I know Liara is focused on helping build the Crucible, which is the most important operation of the war. Naturally, the reason Traynor finds Grissom Academy/Sanctuary/Cerberus Scientists is so she actually is relevant to the story, otherwise she'd be a nothing character in a ManShep playthough, and the token lesbian in a FemShep one.


That's just it. They didn't need to introduce Traynor, and in that way, they wouldn't needed to make her more important and actually relevant to the story. In the ideal scenario, they would have found a way to keep Kelly in as a yeoman aboard the ship, keep her fans happy, and Liara would have handled all the information that comes through Traynor as she obviously has the necessary resources to acquire it.

I mean, all the way from ME1 we've learned just how powerful and influential the Shadow Broker can be, and yet, when Liara assumes control of that position, she rarely does utilize it. Honestly, if BioWare deemed it plausible for Liara to be the SB, then they would have also given her the ability to deal with all this intel that comes from being the SB, expanding on that, in a way. I'm not saying that the concept of having the SB at your side is completely forgotten, but I felt that it could have had a much bigger impact than that.

Top:

*snip*


The character Traynor was obviously introduced to give femSheps a lesbian romance, she really didn't add too much extra to the game (though I liked her character) just like Cortez. Both seem - to me at least - essentially redundant characters added for the sole purpose of being a gay LI. 

In order to try and make it less obvious, they gave both her and cortez something to do aboard the ship. I agree though that Liara could've easily taken over Traynor's information stuff while EDI could've handled the messages just like she did after Kelly was abducted. And I think I better leave it at this. This is the Liara thread after all=]


True, on all acounts Image IPB

Modifié par Akernis, 09 mai 2012 - 02:15 .


#36006
Theodoro

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Robhuzz wrote...
The character Traynor was obviously introduced to give femSheps a lesbian romance, she really didn't add too much extra to the game (though I liked her character) just like Cortez. Both seem - to me at least - essentially redundant characters added for the sole purpose of being a gay LI. 


Yeah. I really wish that they hadn't 'advertised' them as gay LIs from the get-go.
I mean, in your first conversation with Traynor, you're already given the impression that she's a gay LI when she comments on how attractive EDI's voice was.
In your first conversation with Cortez he's already pouring his heart out to his Commander, not forgetting to mention his dead husband and everything about him.

I have nothing against either Traynor or Cortez (I actually like them), but I would have liked them better if we were first introduced to them as characters. Yes, BioWare, we get the message - you've listened to the fans, you've given them gay LIs, try to be less obvious about it.

Modifié par Theodoro, 09 mai 2012 - 02:20 .


#36007
Ecrulis

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Figured Id weigh in on the renegade with Liara topic, I agree that a pure unforgiving renegade may seem a bit odd with Liara, however the way I play My cannon shep is that her colonist background caused her to lock whatever feelings and emotions she had left inside herself, if she wanted to complete the mission she had to be distant and willing to sacrifice people (leading to Torfin).

This began to change as she started talking to Liara, and by the time she got to Feros she saved the colonists despite the fact that she was ready to kill them (Liara convinced her). So as the character goes along by the time she gets to ME3 I feel like she more or less fits the "anti hero" template, shes very renegade but despite her sometimes ruthless nature she ends up saving people when she can.

Basically in my own Sheps case at least I feel like her relationship with Liara has brought out more and more of the girl from Mindoir, and that has forever changed shep for the better.

#36008
rubynorman

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I'll spam some screenshots of Liara and my FShem because I already stated my opinion on this matter and for the lack of blue on this page. :devil:

Image IPB
Image IPB
Image IPB

New video from MW6743 : Mass Effect 1&3 - FemShepard and Liara - Shot in The Dark

youtu.be/2VW7hHzflEc

Modifié par rubynorman, 09 mai 2012 - 03:07 .


#36009
SeedyKiwi

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I didn't mind Traynor's role to be fair, and I got the feeling that she was pretty desperate to prove her worth to Shep and his crew, and was looking for any and all ways to make that happen. She kinda reminded me of a puppy that just always wants attention and needs validation.

She got lucky with her info a couple of times, but I never saw any emails about Traynor using her skills to get shipments of Platinum delivered to the Crucible Project hehe..

I've seen alot of people (not here, the ones questioning Liara's worth mostly) mention the Grissom catch that Traynor picked up and Liara "missed". But.

Traynor picks that up while Liara is with the squad on Priority Palaven. By the time Liara returns to the ship it's fair to assume that Traynor has received comms re: Grissom, and then EDI figures out the signals are similar to the collector ship from ME2.. Traynor does very little regarding Grissom Academy...


I would love for Liara to convince the Normandy crew to go rogue with her and a recovering Shepard, as the Shadow Broker rebuilds her network, and guides the rebuilding of a galaxy in ruin, as The Alliance try to capture and use Shepard as a ticket to dominate Galactic Policy and control power, while other groups are also after him and the broker for similar reasons. ME4: The Power of Shadows..

#36010
kumquats

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Ecrulis wrote...

Figured Id weigh in on the renegade with Liara topic, I agree that a pure unforgiving renegade may seem a bit odd with Liara, however the way I play My cannon shep is that her colonist background caused her to lock whatever feelings and emotions she had left inside herself, if she wanted to complete the mission she had to be distant and willing to sacrifice people (leading to Torfin).


I can see that beating up the Reporter is a little bit extreme. ^.^
But the big choices with the Renegade, are not unforgiving at all.
What Garrus says about the sabotage of the cure, I believe the same thing applys to Liara. If there was a way to save Thessia, she would have betrayed, lied and murdered.

The difference is between a more renegadish character like Garrus is, that he could learn to live with his choice. Liara would break down. Like we saw in ME2, she can't deal with her own renegadish actions, but she is able to understand them. 

Modifié par kumquats, 09 mai 2012 - 03:12 .


#36011
Ecrulis

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kumquats wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

Figured Id weigh in on the renegade with Liara topic, I agree that a pure unforgiving renegade may seem a bit odd with Liara, however the way I play My cannon shep is that her colonist background caused her to lock whatever feelings and emotions she had left inside herself, if she wanted to complete the mission she had to be distant and willing to sacrifice people (leading to Torfin).


I can see that beating up the Reporter is a little bit extreme. ^.^
But the big choices with the Renegade, are not unforgiving at all.
What Garrus says about the sabotage of the cure, I believe the same thing applys to Liara. If there was a way to save Thessia, she would have betrayed, lied and murdered.

The difference is between a more renegadish character like Garrus is, that he could learn to live with his choice. Liara would break down. Like we saw in ME2, she can't deal with her own renegadish actions, but she is able to understand them. 


I dunno she seems pretty unapologetic about sacrificing Sakat in LotSB

#36012
Neeh

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Arcataye wrote...

Hair color? Yay for gibbed! Hair style should be easily changed too.

Too bad default shep doesn't have anything listed in texture maps, could put freckles on any custom shep with them.

I didn't use the default shep because somehow I didn't like the facial features. Tho my custom shep is even worse, but atleast she doesn't look so young.
-
Haha, this sums up the Liara SB thread quite nicely! :D


There are actually some "Freckle" maps in the gamefiles, there's also a collum for it in gibbed, along with all the other possible facial features. I've yet to even figure out if they're used at all, I wasn't able to get anything out of them with the editor alone..

And on the whole SB Liara/Traynor topic, however it would end up it's easily twisted into hate for Liara if you really want it to. Either she does too much, has too much power and yada yada, or she dosen't do enough and is useless..
It's a lose/lose situation.

Personally I didn't mind it too much, but I was slightly annoyed Traynor was master tracker all the time. It just felt abit silly to me. That said I actually liked her character, even if she was abit too forthcomming, and her romance feels rather forced and comes outta nowhere. 

I do think Liaras role would be suited as a mission hub too, as already suggested by someone, but considering the quality and value of sidemissions in ME3 it might've been better off without it. There's only so much fetching you can do...even if Liara is the one asking for it..or well..

Modifié par Neeh, 09 mai 2012 - 03:34 .


#36013
Ecrulis

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Neeh wrote...

Arcataye wrote...

Hair color? Yay for gibbed! Hair style should be easily changed too.

Too bad default shep doesn't have anything listed in texture maps, could put freckles on any custom shep with them.

I didn't use the default shep because somehow I didn't like the facial features. Tho my custom shep is even worse, but atleast she doesn't look so young.
-
Haha, this sums up the Liara SB thread quite nicely! :D


There are actually some "Freckle" maps in the gamefiles, there's also a collum for it in gibbed, along with all the other possible facial features. I've yet to even figure out if they're used at all, I wasn't able to get anything out of them with the editor alone..

And on the whole SB Liara/Traynor topic, however it would end up it's easily twisted into hate for Liara if you really want it to. Either she does too much, has too much power and yada yada, or she dosen't do enough and is useless..
It's a lose/lose situation.

Personally I didn't mind it too much, but I was slightly annoyed Traynor was master tracker all the time. It just felt abit silly to me. That said I actually liked her character, even if she was abit too forthcomming, and her romance feels rather forced and comes outta nowhere. 

I do think Liaras role would be suited as a mission hub too, as already suggested by someone, but considering the quality and value of sidemissions in ME3 it might've been better off without it. There's only so much fetching you can do...even if Liara is the one asking for it..or well..


My own personal issues with traynor is that, as was said earlier, Bioware seemed more concerned with making her, and cortez, fanservice same sex LI than fleshed out characters. Don't get me wrong I like the characters and their potential but for christs sake I invite Traynor up for chess and she hints at wanting to take a shower in my room :blink:.

Modifié par Ecrulis, 09 mai 2012 - 03:43 .


#36014
RenegadeSpectre

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rubynorman wrote...

I'll spam some screenshots of Liara and my FShem because I already stated my opinion on this matter and for the lack of blue on this page. :devil:

Image IPB
Image IPB
Image IPB

New video from MW6743 : Mass Effect 1&3 - FemShepard and Liara - Shot in The Dark

youtu.be/2VW7hHzflEc

Wow! It's amazing! Thank you!:wub:

#36015
Neeh

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Ecrulis wrote...

My own personal issues with traynor is that, as was said earlier, Bioware seemed more concerned with making her, and cortez, fanservice same sex LI than fleshed out characters. Don't get me wrong I like the characters and their potential but for christs sake I invite Traynor up for chess and she hints at wanting to take a shower in my room :blink:.


Well, that's all they had time for really, just another reason the game should've been held of 'til summer atleast.

#36016
Wulfram

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Traynor serves the purpose of being a character whose dialogue can pretty regularly cause me to smile. Which given the general tone of the game is pretty valuable.

Image IPB

Modifié par Wulfram, 09 mai 2012 - 03:59 .


#36017
Akernis

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Just fell over this.

Image IPB

And as the artist said:

"Then ending with Shep and their LI staggering to Shep's quarters for a sloppy sorta-romance scene where they get halfway to taking their clothes off before giving up and falling asleep on each other."

#36018
lillitheris

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Didn’t I scold you to stop listening to the haters already? :)

Would Liara’s Shadowbrokering or lack thereof be any issue if somebody wasn’t complaining about it? Traynor’s a great character and I’ve no problems just going with Liara working in the background…

Modifié par lillitheris, 09 mai 2012 - 04:25 .


#36019
Arcataye

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Neeh wrote...

There are actually some "Freckle" maps in the gamefiles, there's also a collum for it in gibbed, along with all the other possible facial features. I've yet to even figure out if they're used at all, I wasn't able to get anything out of them with the editor alone..

Got it working.
BIOG_HMF_HED_PROMorph_R.PROShepard.HMF_HED_PROShepard_Face_Diff
(Appearance -> Head Morph -> Texture Parameters -> Head Diff -> Value)

Custom frecklesheps ahoy!

-
Image IPB

Would anyone here take a Liara tattoo? I mean if the face would be done a bit better than in that one. :pinched:
Edit: I personally will never get a tattoo, just not my thing, tho they do look cool on others.

Modifié par Arcataye, 09 mai 2012 - 04:45 .


#36020
Akernis

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Arcataye wrote...
Would anyone here take a Liara tattoo? I mean if the face would be done a bit better than in that one. :pinched:

Not I, I don't do tatoos. While I have nothing against people with them I can't see the point of near-permanently displaying somehting on your skin no matter how much you might like it. 

Modifié par Akernis, 09 mai 2012 - 04:39 .


#36021
Aristobulus500

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I honestly think a Liara tattoo could end up looking good, but you'd have to find the right design. I, personally, wouldn't mind a tattoo...but I'd be really, really picky about the design. I don't have any tattoos, but I wouldn't be averse to getting one if I ever saw a design I liked enough.

And that's the thing, you want not just a subject you like enough, but a design of that subject that looks good enough, fits the tattoo style AND will age well on your skin. And that's extremely difficult.

#36022
ladyvader

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Arcataye wrote...

Neeh wrote...

There are actually some "Freckle" maps in the gamefiles, there's also a collum for it in gibbed, along with all the other possible facial features. I've yet to even figure out if they're used at all, I wasn't able to get anything out of them with the editor alone..

Got it working.
BIOG_HMF_HED_PROMorph_R.PROShepard.HMF_HED_PROShepard_Face_Diff
(Appearance -> Head Morph -> Texture Parameters -> Head Diff -> Value)

Custom frecklesheps ahoy!

-
Image IPB

Would anyone here take a Liara tattoo? I mean if the face would be done a bit better than in that one. :pinched:
Edit: I personally will never get a tattoo, just not my thing, tho they do look cool on others.


I'm going to be a little crictical about that tattoo.  The artist sucks and it not good at doing potraits.  I don't know who's tattoo this is or where it was done at, but I think it looks bad.  I may have Liara's armor, but that's not Liara's face.  In order for it to be Liara, there has to be freckles and this tattoo has zero.  If they are there, I'm not seeing them. 

I've been a fan of Star Wars since I was 9 back in 1977.  I don't have any Star Wars related ink.  I do have plenty of Green Bay Packers related ones.  

Tattoos like this one is a reason I don't have any potraits done.  It takes a special artist to pull a potrait off and this artist doesn't have it.  

I have yet to see any Mass Effect related tattoo that looks good.   Or many Star Wars ones either.

#36023
Aristobulus500

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Yes, what LadyVader said is right. That is a bad Liara tattoo. I don't think it's impossible to have *a* Liara tattoo that looks good, I've just yet to see a design that probably translates well to a tattoo.

#36024
Ecrulis

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Neeh wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

My own personal issues with traynor is that, as was said earlier, Bioware seemed more concerned with making her, and cortez, fanservice same sex LI than fleshed out characters. Don't get me wrong I like the characters and their potential but for christs sake I invite Traynor up for chess and she hints at wanting to take a shower in my room :blink:.


Well, that's all they had time for really, just another reason the game should've been held of 'til summer atleast.


I totally agree I wish both traynor and cortez had more time to be developed into more complicated characters. Like I said just seems odd that she goes from "EDI's Voice is hot" to "Wanna play chess I like it best when games make me sweat" to "lets shower together". Just seems sloppy to me.

EDIT: Top edit

Image IPB 

I like that picture :wub:

Modifié par Ecrulis, 09 mai 2012 - 05:19 .


#36025
ladyvader

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Aristobulus500 wrote...

Yes, what LadyVader said is right. That is a bad Liara tattoo. I don't think it's impossible to have *a* Liara tattoo that looks good, I've just yet to see a design that probably translates well to a tattoo.

I am very critcial when it comes to good vs bad ink.  There are really only a handful of artist worth the money to get a potrait done.  One of the biggest problems I have with it is this....Liara doesn't pop off the background.  Her face doesn't look like Liara.  Some angry asari with Liara's coloring on her head tenticles and is wearing her armor.  It's like the statue.  Has Liara's armor on, but the face isn't Liara.  Don't like one bit.

The background color shouldn't be blue.  It is what prevents Liara from popping off.  The artist should have known this, but then maybe this is what the client wanted.  Not sure, but I tend to let my artist do his thing and I have yet to get a bad tattoo or one that doesn't pop.  That is what color tattoos should do,  pop.  Especially, if you put that much color into the background.  It subject should pop and be very noticable.  That tattoo lacks it, in my view.


If anyone is interested in seeing some of my tattoos here is a link to some of them.  Not all, but some.