Modifié par Arcataye, 09 mai 2012 - 05:29 .
Ecrulis wrote...
kumquats wrote...
Ecrulis wrote...
Figured Id weigh in on the renegade with Liara topic, I agree that a pure unforgiving renegade may seem a bit odd with Liara, however the way I play My cannon shep is that her colonist background caused her to lock whatever feelings and emotions she had left inside herself, if she wanted to complete the mission she had to be distant and willing to sacrifice people (leading to Torfin).
I can see that beating up the Reporter is a little bit extreme. ^.^
But the big choices with the Renegade, are not unforgiving at all.
What Garrus says about the sabotage of the cure, I believe the same thing applys to Liara. If there was a way to save Thessia, she would have betrayed, lied and murdered.
The difference is between a more renegadish character like Garrus is, that he could learn to live with his choice. Liara would break down. Like we saw in ME2, she can't deal with her own renegadish actions, but she is able to understand them.
I dunno she seems pretty unapologetic about sacrificing Sakat in LotSB
TheMarshal wrote...
Ecrulis wrote...
kumquats wrote...
Ecrulis wrote...
Figured Id weigh in on the renegade with Liara topic, I agree that a pure unforgiving renegade may seem a bit odd with Liara, however the way I play My cannon shep is that her colonist background caused her to lock whatever feelings and emotions she had left inside herself, if she wanted to complete the mission she had to be distant and willing to sacrifice people (leading to Torfin).
I can see that beating up the Reporter is a little bit extreme. ^.^
But the big choices with the Renegade, are not unforgiving at all.
What Garrus says about the sabotage of the cure, I believe the same thing applys to Liara. If there was a way to save Thessia, she would have betrayed, lied and murdered.
The difference is between a more renegadish character like Garrus is, that he could learn to live with his choice. Liara would break down. Like we saw in ME2, she can't deal with her own renegadish actions, but she is able to understand them.
I dunno she seems pretty unapologetic about sacrificing Sakat in LotSB
The question is whether her "...and I would do it again" evidence of her trying to convince us, or her trying to convince herself? I have no doubt that she's become harder as a result of the events of ME1 and Redemption. But that's a far cry from believing that she's now a callous and calculating person.
That's what I was trying to get at.Aristobulus500 wrote...
I am interesting in any pictures people think would translate well to tattoos, if you want to post any. That Noir style one, it *might*...yet, it's so abstract that it also might not. It works well as an artistic picture but a tattoo? I'm not sure.
TheMarshal wrote...
The question is whether her "...and I would do it again" evidence of her trying to convince us, or her trying to convince herself? I have no doubt that she's become harder as a result of the events of ME1 and Redemption. But that's a far cry from believing that she's now a callous and calculating person.
lillitheris wrote...
I’m working mostly off the assumption that it’s a façade that has owned her. Not that Liara can’t be tough – because, obviously, she is – but that she doesn’t like it, it’s not her. Right now, at least until the end of the war, there’s just no way to drop it.
Wulfram wrote...
But she seems to be back to strictly Paragon in ME3. Though whether that's because we don't really see her much in her Shadowbroker role, I don't know.
Modifié par Tyranniac, 09 mai 2012 - 05:43 .
Tyranniac wrote...
Why so much talk about paragon and renegade? That's just the ingame morality system and I don't really see how it applies to a characters personality or decisions.
Aristobulus500 wrote...
I think that Liara *can* force herself to be more renegade when she has to - certainly she is doing that when you first see her in ME2 - but as said, it's not really her. She doesn't like doing it, it makes her hate herself, and she's incredibly ashamed of it.
That's the difference between Liara and a Renegade Shep - Liara admits that she could do some nasty things if she had to...but it'll haunt her. Renegade shep does horrible things just for kicks and laughs about it.
Modifié par Ecrulis, 09 mai 2012 - 06:03 .
Wulfram wrote...
Tyranniac wrote...
Why so much talk about paragon and renegade? That's just the ingame morality system and I don't really see how it applies to a characters personality or decisions.
It's convenient shorthand. If you'd prefer, we could talk about ruthlessness vs idealism and principles.
Tyranniac wrote...
Wulfram wrote...
Tyranniac wrote...
Why so much talk about paragon and renegade? That's just the ingame morality system and I don't really see how it applies to a characters personality or decisions.
It's convenient shorthand. If you'd prefer, we could talk about ruthlessness vs idealism and principles.
It's not really the names I have a problem with, it's just that it feels a bit like splitting everything into black and white.
^ This. That and the thought process of the larger picture with every action taken - how it could hinder or hasten the successful fulfilment of the goal. Ruthless and calculating. Renegade behaviour is doable with morality still intact, just BW didn't think so - to them its a little more black and white as in Renegade = evil. bah to that.Ecrulis wrote...
Fair enough but personally Ive never played my renegade shep as searches for horrid things to do and enjoys it. Before meeting Liara she would take the quickest and simplest solution to complete the mission if an innocent got in her way they would go down she didnt enjoy it it simply was the way it was, and she certainly would never activly search for horrid things to do just for kicks.
EDIT: maybe paragon and renegade arent good terms to talk about morality in the game, I feel that you can go about "paragon actions" in a ruthless way. For example I can get Tali's charges cleared by screaming at the admiralty board like a bunch of five year olds, its achieves a good and happy result but I go about it in a sort of ruthless way. If that makes any sense.
Modifié par doozer12, 09 mai 2012 - 06:32 .
MidnightRaith wrote...
Melding without reproduction is something I would have liked to learn more about through the series. I agree with the various fanfic authors that suggest that the asari use melding as a bonding technique between not just lovers but family members as well. It would have been interesting....
Off-topic:
I would like to replace my DA stuff. Had it on the 360 that went 'splodey and never got around to actually finish the game. I did try it on Steam, but it sucks on Steam, so I'm gonna give it a go on Origin.... That said, I've heard from plenty of fans that DA2 sucks or something. I like you people, y'all seem like a group that would remain a bit objective on this.Is DA2 worth getting? I want to have the whole story, but if the game's unpleasant, I could just skim the Wiki pages on it, I suppose. Wouldn't be the same, of course, but I'd get the general idea....
doozer12 wrote...
^ This. That and the thought process of the larger picture with every action taken - how it could hinder or hasten the successful fulfilment of the goal. Ruthless and calculating. Renegade behaviour is doable with morality still intact, just BW didn't think so - to them its a little more black and white as in Renegade = evil. bah to that.Ecrulis wrote...
Fair enough but personally Ive never played my renegade shep as searches for horrid things to do and enjoys it. Before meeting Liara she would take the quickest and simplest solution to complete the mission if an innocent got in her way they would go down she didnt enjoy it it simply was the way it was, and she certainly would never activly search for horrid things to do just for kicks.
EDIT: maybe paragon and renegade arent good terms to talk about morality in the game, I feel that you can go about "paragon actions" in a ruthless way. For example I can get Tali's charges cleared by screaming at the admiralty board like a bunch of five year olds, its achieves a good and happy result but I go about it in a sort of ruthless way. If that makes any sense.
Full renegade doesn't make sense to me (thanks to BW's outlook on P/R motivations) - as does full paragon. I don't get how anyone can go full scale on both - that was my biggest problem with ME1 ...the higher end morality checks would fail because I didn't have enough paragon or renegade points...but thats ok - i found it made shepard more believabley human in those scenario's - made deaths happen and put a little more work (fighting saren) and contribute to a better story (admit it, a suicide mission with your entire crew and you don't lose anyone? ...yea no.) (and no im not saying forced deaths makes a better emotional story like walters believes it does)
then theres the script work done for both...that just..sometimes don't do 'em justice. Sucks BW wrote renegade shep to be short sighted, stupid, and crazy - and paragon shep to be pussified, naive, and corny.
Nothing from what I see. What's wrong with telling a certain batarian he is working too hard when you know you'll have to deal with the gunship. EDI even mentions doing things to make it easier dealing with the mercs during Garrus' RM.Ecrulis wrote...
Tyranniac wrote...
Wulfram wrote...
Tyranniac wrote...
Why so much talk about paragon and renegade? That's just the ingame morality system and I don't really see how it applies to a characters personality or decisions.
It's convenient shorthand. If you'd prefer, we could talk about ruthlessness vs idealism and principles.
It's not really the names I have a problem with, it's just that it feels a bit like splitting everything into black and white.
Rereading what Iwrote I do agree, hence the edit, I dont see morality in ME as so black and white, and therefore I dont see either paragon or renegade in game as so black and white, as I think someone at bioware said "what's so bad about buying James and a few soldires a drink?"
moreeman06 wrote...
MidnightRaith wrote...
Melding without reproduction is something I would have liked to learn more about through the series. I agree with the various fanfic authors that suggest that the asari use melding as a bonding technique between not just lovers but family members as well. It would have been interesting....
Off-topic:
I would like to replace my DA stuff. Had it on the 360 that went 'splodey and never got around to actually finish the game. I did try it on Steam, but it sucks on Steam, so I'm gonna give it a go on Origin.... That said, I've heard from plenty of fans that DA2 sucks or something. I like you people, y'all seem like a group that would remain a bit objective on this.
DA2 is ok its not great and certainly doesn't live up to the first one but its not horrible either. the main problem i had with it was that they reuse alot of map templates so that almost every sidequest you're going through the same map. I might be the only one in here who actually liked the story but that's my two cents. It doesn't live up to Origins but its still a ok game.
moreeman06 wrote...
MidnightRaith wrote...
Melding without reproduction is something I would have liked to learn more about through the series. I agree with the various fanfic authors that suggest that the asari use melding as a bonding technique between not just lovers but family members as well. It would have been interesting....
Off-topic:
I would like to replace my DA stuff. Had it on the 360 that went 'splodey and never got around to actually finish the game. I did try it on Steam, but it sucks on Steam, so I'm gonna give it a go on Origin.... That said, I've heard from plenty of fans that DA2 sucks or something. I like you people, y'all seem like a group that would remain a bit objective on this.
DA2 is ok its not great and certainly doesn't live up to the first one but its not horrible either. the main problem i had with it was that they reuse alot of map templates so that almost every sidequest you're going through the same map. I might be the only one in here who actually liked the story but that's my two cents. It doesn't live up to Origins but its still a ok game.
Modifié par Robhuzz, 09 mai 2012 - 06:40 .
Robhuzz wrote...
moreeman06 wrote...
MidnightRaith wrote...
Melding without reproduction is something I would have liked to learn more about through the series. I agree with the various fanfic authors that suggest that the asari use melding as a bonding technique between not just lovers but family members as well. It would have been interesting....
Off-topic:
I would like to replace my DA stuff. Had it on the 360 that went 'splodey and never got around to actually finish the game. I did try it on Steam, but it sucks on Steam, so I'm gonna give it a go on Origin.... That said, I've heard from plenty of fans that DA2 sucks or something. I like you people, y'all seem like a group that would remain a bit objective on this.
DA2 is ok its not great and certainly doesn't live up to the first one but its not horrible either. the main problem i had with it was that they reuse alot of map templates so that almost every sidequest you're going through the same map. I might be the only one in here who actually liked the story but that's my two cents. It doesn't live up to Origins but its still a ok game.
I kind of liked the story. BW said they weren't going to do another 'hero saves the day' story that revolved around beating an ancient evil. I liked it.
I'm currently playing Dragon age Awakening (after finishing the main Origins game last night - still an amazing game after so many playthroughs), and I realise one thing I really dislike about DA2: What they did to Anders. He's such an awesome character, cheerful, funny and about as serious as Oghren (which says something) in awakening but they had to replace him with that paranoid kind of irritating possesed Anders for DA2. *Sigh* Waste of a great character...
Back to Liara now.
Many people seem to dislike trying to name Liara paragon or renegade but can we just agree that Liara really is a good person deep down? Regardless of some of the acts she committed (I imagine she wasn't exactly clean during her 2 years as an information broker while Shepard was gone) in ME3 it is obvious she's a good person.
. dont really think any character can be labeled either or, nothing is that cut and dry Modifié par Ecrulis, 09 mai 2012 - 06:43 .
Arcataye wrote...
Got it working.
BIOG_HMF_HED_PROMorph_R.PROShepard.HMF_HED_PROShepard_Face_Diff
(Appearance -> Head Morph -> Texture Parameters -> Head Diff -> Value)
Custom frecklesheps ahoy!
.
Modifié par Neeh, 09 mai 2012 - 06:49 .
doozer12 wrote...
^ This. That and the thought process of the larger picture with every action taken - how it could hinder or hasten the successful fulfilment of the goal. Ruthless and calculating. Renegade behaviour is doable with morality still intact, just BW didn't think so - to them its a little more black and white as in Renegade = evil. bah to that.
Full renegade doesn't make sense to me (thanks to BW's outlook on P/R motivations) - as does full paragon. I don't get how anyone can go full scale on both - that was my biggest problem with ME1 ...the higher end morality checks would fail because I didn't have enough paragon or renegade points...but thats ok - i found it made shepard more believabley human in those scenario's - made deaths happen and put a little more work (fighting saren) and contribute to a better story (admit it, a suicide mission with your entire crew and you don't lose anyone? ...yea no.) (and no im not saying forced deaths makes a better emotional story like walters believes it does)
then theres the script work done for both...that just..sometimes don't do 'em justice. Sucks BW wrote renegade shep to be short sighted, stupid, and crazy - and paragon shep to be pussified, naive, and corny.
Something some people tend to miss is the fact that Traynor and Cortez don't get a lot of narrative time to be developed, since the narrative for ME3 is actually rather short. They have to happen rather fast and sloppily due to the limitations with the narrative being pretty swift. Liara gets 3 games worth of narrative, VS and ME2 LIs get 2 games, Sam and Steve get 1/2.Ecrulis wrote...
Neeh wrote...
Ecrulis wrote...
My own personal issues with traynor is that, as was said earlier, Bioware seemed more concerned with making her, and cortez, fanservice same sex LI than fleshed out characters. Don't get me wrong I like the characters and their potential but for christs sake I invite Traynor up for chess and she hints at wanting to take a shower in my room.
Well, that's all they had time for really, just another reason the game should've been held of 'til summer atleast.
I totally agree I wish both traynor and cortez had more time to be developed into more complicated characters. Like I said just seems odd that she goes from "EDI's Voice is hot" to "Wanna play chess I like it best when games make me sweat" to "lets shower together". Just seems sloppy to me.
Modifié par Sunnie22, 09 mai 2012 - 07:11 .
Sunnie22 wrote...
Something you may be missing is the fact that Traynor and Cortez don't get a lot of narrative time to be developed, since the narrative for ME3 is actually rather short. They have to happen rather fast and sloppily due to the limitations with the narrative being pretty swift. Liara gets 3 games worth of narrative, VS and ME2 LIs get 2 games, Sam and Steve get 1/2.
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