56469 réponses à ce sujet

[Yuqi]

Sorry I broke into italian in my last post, I was really tired. The whole issue that was being disscussed really irritated me, and it shouldent have.(Maybe it was because I was alittle tipsy.)

Re: the freindzone issue.

While at first the citidel 'date' scene was a little jarring. I noticed that with the acting it came across as if they were joking with eachother. I do love the slight sarcasim in her voice when Liara says 'wow that sounds serious..'

[DarkCloudd]

Yuqi wrote...

Sorry I broke into italian in my last post, I was really tired. The whole issue that was being disscussed really irritated me, and it shouldent have.(Maybe it was because I was alittle tipsy.)

Re: the freindzone issue.

While at first the citidel 'date' scene was a little jarring. I noticed that with the acting it came across as if they were joking with eachother. I do love the slight sarcasim in her voice when Liara says 'wow that sounds serious..'

Yea I agree with you on the date thing. I definately heard it as sarcasm in Liara's voice, which means I can live with it. I just think it could have been handled better but its not terrible the way it is. And honestly given the constraints of the game with the development schedule what would we have liked to see as a date?

So I guess I will pose that as the question: If you could rewrite the Cidadel "date" with a Liaramancer that stayed faithful then what would you have seen them do?

[Aristobulus500]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Observation: I refuse to take Liara on the geth dreadnought mission on the playthrough where I romanced Tali (Liara in ME1), because I don't want to 'rub it in'.

It's fully likely Liara takes it very well (haven't youtube'd it) but it's testament to how much the characters mean to us, that we're worried about possibly hurting their feelings.

P.S. I was hoping the Shep/Tali flirting would replaced with that of another LI, quite disappointed when I discovered it wasn't the case. The others don't really get a sequence like that.

I've seen the various ways the geth dreadnought mission can play out, based around cheating on Liara/Tali and who you eventually decide to go with in ME3 - of course my actual Shepards only ever romanced Liara all the way and never went with Tali - but I feel there's something very interesting about this.

I feel like those scenes are supposed to play up Tali - especially if you chose her - but I really find that no matter if Shep chose Liara or Tali, the scenes just serve to remind me of why I like Liara so much and couldn't romance Tali, especially over Liara like that.

See, the thing is if Shep chooses Tali, then Tali is essentially a **** that spends the mission flirting in front of Liara and then intentionally rubs it in her face, and she knows Liara still cares about Shep. She tries to pick a fight with Liara - all "Do you have a problem T'Soni" or something, and tries to accuse her of abusing her shadow broker powers to spy on Shep/Tali, and Liara just does not play into her games and silly slap fight. She wishes them both well and just...Liara is the bigger person there. She shows that she's so much more mature than Tali.

And that's when Shep chooses Tali! So the focus is supposed to be on Tali!

And of course Liara looks better when Shep chooses her. He doesn't spend the entire time making Tali feel awful, and when Tali still tries to pick a fight, Liara still doesn't play into it even though she has the upper hand because she's the one Shep chose.

It's really consistent with Liara's character, too, I think. It's just a nice touch.

[TheMarshal]

ladyvader wrote...

You just insulted the devs and writers of the game by calling them lazy when they were anything but being lazy.  They took into account that some might want to end it with Liara after the beginning of the game.  The mechanics of the game is the SAME for every LI that is part of the import.  Those of us that romanced Liara got MORE out of that romance than those that stayed faithful for either Ash or Kaidan.

Why is that so damn hard for people to understand?  It would have been easier to not have Liara as a ME3 only romance.  I think that might have solved some problems, but then I would have found that annoying because I wanted my single femShep with Liara after I couldn't romance her on ME1 because I picked her up after Virmire.

Using the same approach, the same lines of dialogue for two romance paths that were wildly different is being lazy.  It doesn't have Challenger-explosion levels of repercussions, but it could have been handled better.  I'm not saying remove the option for a lock-out altogether.  I'm saying that simply acknowledging that I've already said "Yes, Liara, I want to be with you" no fewer than three times since ME1 would be more than sufficient.

[kyg_20X6]

@Aristobulus500 I wonder if that plays out differently if you tell Liara you've moved on (first convo on Normandy)? Which is what I did. I wonder if it would be as antagonistic?

I assuming you're referring to Shep stringing both along to that point, which could bewrong since you did say you'd seen all variants.

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 10 mai 2012 - 05:07 .

[Aristobulus500]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

@Aristobulus500 I wonder if that plays out differently if you tell Liara you've moved on (first convo on Normandy)? Which is what I did. I wonder if it would be as antagonistic?

I assuming you're referring to Shep stringing both along to that point, which could bewrong since you did say you'd seen all variants.

To clarify, what I saw was parts of the dreadnought mission if Shep did these two things. If there are more variations that still have conflict, I don't know of them. 1. from ME1 - ME3, it goes Liara -> Tali, Liara in LotSB -> and then in ME3 it splits, choosing either Liara or Tali when they ask.

DarkCloudd wrote...
So I guess I will pose that as the question: If you could rewrite the Cidadel "date" with a Liaramancer that stayed faithful then what would you have seen them do?

I would've liked to have seen them actually have a real date - just a chance for them both to get some downtime and just enjoy eachothers company. Perhaps they actually order something at that cafe Liara is always sitting near, or perhaps they just explore an unruined part of the Presidium, and they talk to eachother about their history and things we never got to see.

I'd want them to actually put the war aside for a bit and just have eachother. The romance scenes you get on the Normandy are nice but even the final sex scene is broken up by WAR DEATH CONFLICT and Shep just can't enjoy having Liara right next to him. Even ignoring the obnoxious nightmare scene, so much of the dialogue is about being depressed over the war and the Reapers.

[rubynorman]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

@Aristobulus500 I wonder if that plays out differently if you tell Liara you've moved on (first convo on Normandy)? Which is what I did. I wonder if it would be as antagonistic?

I assuming you're referring to Shep stringing both along to that point, which could bewrong since you did say you'd seen all variants.

To clarify, what I saw was parts of the dreadnought mission if Shep did these two things. If there are more variations that still have conflict, I don't know of them. 1. from ME1 - ME3, it goes Liara -> Tali, Liara in LotSB -> and then in ME3 it splits, choosing either Liara or Tali when they ask.

DarkCloudd wrote...
So I guess I will pose that as the question: If you could rewrite the Cidadel "date" with a Liaramancer that stayed faithful then what would you have seen them do?

I would've liked to have seen them actually have a real date - just a chance for them both to get some downtime and just enjoy eachothers company. Perhaps they actually order something at that cafe Liara is always sitting near, or perhaps they just explore an unruined part of the Presidium, and they talk to eachother about their history and things we never got to see.

I'd want them to actually put the war aside for a bit and just have eachother. The romance scenes you get on the Normandy are nice but even the final sex scene is broken up by WAR DEATH CONFLICT and Shep just can't enjoy having Liara right next to him. Even ignoring the obnoxious nightmare scene, so much of the dialogue is about being depressed over the war and the Reapers.

I want a real date too, so I head canon it and write down something.
My Shep and Liara meet at the cafe on an evening. She surprises Liara with a date and they dance on the corner of the cafe.
*repost my fanart*

[Aristobulus500]

Hey guys, just had an interesting conversation with a guy who used to work in Bioware, he told me some interesting stuff about Liara's development and all, thought I'd pass along the conversation.

Just gonna copy and paste what I said and what he responded with.

Aristobulus wrote

Anyway, I just want to know - Did Liara actually get any special treatment or attention, was Bioware intending to make her a "Golden Girl/Canon Romance" as people say she is, or did things just turn out that way that it appears so, but it wasn't completely intended?

It's just various things - her screen time, how important she is - even things like how significant the changes to her model were, and she seems to have more attention paid to making her model as detailed and high res as possible, especially compared to pretty much anyone else. Just things like her eyes and the detail on her skin texture and all - and not to sound perverted, but even in her sex scene, her model is detailed and textured on parts of her you'd never even see because the camera never pans unless you use flycam - like, a lot of graphical shortcuts *could've* been taken on designing her because a lot is actually out of view of the player, yet nothing was.

So was it a coincidence? Did Bioware just happen to put so much effort into her, or was Bioware intentionally meaning to do something by putting so much into her, they actually *wanted* to put more into her than other characters?

I mean, in retaliation, I can always point to things other characters got that Liara didn't, but complaining about things Liara *is* lacking isn't the point of my question here.

Employee wrote

She wasn't treated with any sort of preferential treatment over any of the other characters.
Writing for her and tali was easier though which explains a bit of their screen time, tali probably got more thought than liara in-house though because her face and the suit lead to a bit more in the way of interesting situations they had to figure out what to do with. Tali's face for instance was the case of years of debate ... which they then pooped out a quick easter egg for the tali fans ... I still say she should have looked like a hydralisk (honestly that's what I was arguing for 5 years ... but I guess team hydralisk lost that argument)

There wasn't really any canon, actually when we had to figure out default states for ME2 and ME3 we were left kinda scratching our heads as to what the default should be since we didn't actually think about canon things at all, it was mostly left up to our writing QA fellow to work out what was best with our writing team.

For ME2 I think we went with almost all centre options as the "canon" and for ME3 they chose whatever they figured was coolest, even though some of the decisions were different than the ME2 default.

For screen time, her and tali were the ones that got the most, because they were the only two guaranteed to have been with you in ME1 the whole way it was a lot easier to write situations for them in ME2.
And then in ME3, well you have two characters that did various things with you in ME2, Tali was with you the whole time and Liara was with you for an entire game previously and was guaranteed 100% to not be dead at the end of ME2, the only henchman that had that distinction if I recall, so having her along was a no-brainer, you didn't have to write 4 bits of alternate dialogue for everything because there's only one situation, liara's alive, not was alive then died, not never met, nothing like that. a fraction of the work of any of the other folks.

You didn't have to consider if you didn't let them join you on the citadel back in ME1 like you could for wrex or garrus, and you didn't have to consider if they died like wrex, kaiden or ashley could either.
And liara didn't melt at the end of ME2.

And for her model, well they've had 3 years to work on it, they tried to make all the folks pretty good though.
For detail where the camera won't go, well the artists never know where the camera will go, so they do the best over everything that might show up, you never know when a cinematic designer might start having closeups of the tailbone or something along those lines.

Soooooo that's a pretty long answer, short version is that any preferential treatment is coincidental, if any of it was intended I didn't know about it.

Aristobulus wrote...

That's actually really interesting - thank you for the reply. I figured a lot of the seemingly preferential treatment was just because Liara was the only one who couldn't die, whereas the rest had their histories branch, and Liara's is basically just "are you romancing me or not".

I was curious about it though because - I don't know if you've noticed - but it's a very popular misconception among the fanbase, especially those who dislike Liara, that she got immense special treatment by Bioware at the expense of other characters.

Since you've helped clear some of this up and show that's just not true - Liara was treated equally in development - do you mind if I pass around any of this message to other places to try to clear that up?

And as far as Tali's face - I was personally always hoping that you'd get to see her remove her mask...and it's just be thousands upon thousands of tentacles and lamprey mouths. I guess the hydralisk idea would've been easier to create though

I do want to ask you as well though, was there ever any plans to do more with Thessia or Liara's romance, and it just got cut short due to time? I mean, specifically, it seems like at points there are a few scenes that are clearly lacking for a romance.

Thessia is only a single mission, and the Asari barely show up in the game and don't even go to the summit - and then most of Liara's scenes in the mid-late game don't differ for a romance. To my knowledge, scenes like the Time Capsule, Thessia, and Liara's breakdown after Thessia - and possibly more I'm forgetting - simply lack any differences between a Liara romancing Shep and one that isn't. And it seems especially odd that the Thessia segment isn't different between a Liara romance and not.

To me, it feels like they wrote all these scenes with a catch all Shepard that acts as if he might be romancing her, he might not be, and then the team just never got a chance to actually make a version for romance. Just curious if I'm on any right track with that train of thought.

Employee wrote

You can probably pass that around, I don't think I have anything that shouldn't already be public knowledge somewhere.
But if people want to hate liara, I don't think there's much you can do about it, they'll like who they like and hate who they hate regardless of what you say to them 99% of the time.

I don't actually know what they planned to do with Thessia, just what they actually did.
There's a lot of running around, a fight with the space ninja at the end.

I wouldn't sweat it much though, a LOT of stuff gets cut from the games, a lot of really cool stuff.
In ME1 the mission to pick up liara had a big awesome base before hand before you could get in the flubber-mobile, you had to sort a labour(mob) dispute with some other exploitive group.
It even had space hookers.

That was my favourite level in all of mass effect, but it wasn't story central, they needed to cut the scope to ship some time in our lives, so it got cut.
I'm still bitter about it, it was so cool.

oh yeah and regarding liara's romance, not really sure what was going on behind the scenes there either.

[Arcataye]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Hey guys, just had an interesting conversation with a guy who used to work in Bioware, he told me some interesting stuff about Liara's development and all, thought I'd pass along the conversation.
Just gonna copy and paste what I said and what he responded with.

How did you find an Bioware employee to chat with? If it's from some random forum, there's a chance that it's fake. Or was it that you actually spoke to one face-to-face? I ain't saying that it is fake, but you know what I mean.

Modifié par Arcataye, 10 mai 2012 - 08:00 .

[speedy111280]

Akernis wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Akernis wrote...

Even after having read it I can still barely understand how one person can write something so good that many if not most of us simply consider it canon... or at the very least collective headcanon.

It's because Rae paid intense attention to the lore and culture/portrayal of things like the Asari and their culture, and how their abilities and such tend to work, and equal attention to the characterization and personalities of Liara and Shepard, so that the portrayal was so spot on, it is very, very easy to imagine everything happening exactly as it's portrayed, and the Asari really do work like that, because it all makes perfect sense with what we've seen in the games.

Agreed, that and she is one hell of a good writer .

Rae has been one of my favorite authors for SVU fic for a while so I was delighted when she started writing fic for FemShep/Liara, especially when they turned out so amazing.

[Tyranniac]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

DarkCloudd wrote...
So I guess I will pose that as the question: If you could rewrite the Cidadel "date" with a Liaramancer that stayed faithful then what would you have seen them do?

I would've liked to have seen them actually have a real date - just a chance for them both to get some downtime and just enjoy eachothers company. Perhaps they actually order something at that cafe Liara is always sitting near, or perhaps they just explore an unruined part of the Presidium, and they talk to eachother about their history and things we never got to see.

I'd want them to actually put the war aside for a bit and just have eachother. The romance scenes you get on the Normandy are nice but even the final sex scene is broken up by WAR DEATH CONFLICT and Shep just can't enjoy having Liara right next to him. Even ignoring the obnoxious nightmare scene, so much of the dialogue is about being depressed over the war and the Reapers.

I agree that a real date would have been nice, I figure that's pretty much what happened after the fade to black though, but they could've shown part of it at least. Also, I love romance dialogue that is broken by "WAR DEATH CONFLICT", or well, I would have if there was a chance at a happy ending. I also like the dream sequences, theywould've been better with less focus on the kid of course, but I still really like the mood, especially the last one.

Modifié par Tyranniac, 10 mai 2012 - 09:03 .

[Obsidian Gryphon]

I wish they could add something extra to the date for a femShep + Liara. Like showing them walking off hand in hand after the kiss to sit on a bench somewhere relatively secluded; relaxed and chatting. Not necessary to hear what they say but to show they were taking some time off for themselves. Then afterwards, show them parting (maybe Liara saying : See you back on the ship) at the Presidium and continue the game from there.

[Tyranniac]

Obsidian Gryphon wrote...

I wish they could add something extra to the date for a femShep + Liara. Like showing them walking off hand in hand after the kiss to sit on a bench somewhere relatively secluded; relaxed and chatting. Not necessary to hear what they say but to show they were taking some time off for themselves. Then afterwards, show them parting (maybe Liara saying : See you back on the ship) at the Presidium and continue the game from there.

Huh? Why only for femshep? 

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Observation: I refuse to take Liara on the geth dreadnought mission on the playthrough where I romanced Tali (Liara in ME1), because I don't want to 'rub it in'.

It's fully likely Liara takes it very well (haven't youtube'd it) but it's testament to how much the characters mean to us, that we're worried about possibly hurting their feelings.

P.S. I was hoping the Shep/Tali flirting would replaced with that of another LI, quite disappointed when I discovered it wasn't the case. The others don't really get a sequence like that.

I've seen the various ways the geth dreadnought mission can play out, based around cheating on Liara/Tali and who you eventually decide to go with in ME3 - of course my actual Shepards only ever romanced Liara all the way and never went with Tali - but I feel there's something very interesting about this.

I feel like those scenes are supposed to play up Tali - especially if you chose her - but I really find that no matter if Shep chose Liara or Tali, the scenes just serve to remind me of why I like Liara so much and couldn't romance Tali, especially over Liara like that.

See, the thing is if Shep chooses Tali, then Tali is essentially a **** that spends the mission flirting in front of Liara and then intentionally rubs it in her face, and she knows Liara still cares about Shep. She tries to pick a fight with Liara - all "Do you have a problem T'Soni" or something, and tries to accuse her of abusing her shadow broker powers to spy on Shep/Tali, and Liara just does not play into her games and silly slap fight. She wishes them both well and just...Liara is the bigger person there. She shows that she's so much more mature than Tali.

And that's when Shep chooses Tali! So the focus is supposed to be on Tali!

And of course Liara looks better when Shep chooses her. He doesn't spend the entire time making Tali feel awful, and when Tali still tries to pick a fight, Liara still doesn't play into it even though she has the upper hand because she's the one Shep chose.

It's really consistent with Liara's character, too, I think. It's just a nice touch.

Doesn't Liara rub it in Tali's face if she was won in their very first scene together?

I am talking about the parts where she mentions all the things Tali installed in her suit, including the nerve stim pro. It came off as Liara wanting to humilate Tali in front of Shepard.

[speedy111280]

moreeman06 wrote...

MidnightRaith wrote...

Melding without reproduction is something I would have liked to learn more about through the series. I agree with the various fanfic authors that suggest that the asari use melding as a bonding technique between not just lovers but family members as well. It would have been interesting....

Off-topic:

I would like to replace my DA stuff. Had it on the 360 that went 'splodey and never got around to actually finish the game. I did try it on Steam, but it sucks on Steam, so I'm gonna give it a go on Origin.... That said, I've heard from plenty of fans that DA2 sucks or something. I like you people, y'all seem like a group that would remain a bit objective on this. Is DA2 worth getting? I want to have the whole story, but if the game's unpleasant, I could just skim the Wiki pages on it, I suppose. Wouldn't be the same, of course, but I'd get the general idea....

DA2 is ok its not great and certainly doesn't live up to the first one but its not horrible either.  the main problem i had with it was that they reuse alot of map templates so that almost every sidequest you're going through the same map.  I might be the only one in here who actually liked the story but that's my two cents.  It doesn't live up to Origins but its still a ok game.

You aren't the only one. I actually loved the story of DA2 more than DAO for one simple reason, it took all we learned about Thedas and their religion and culture and by the end of the game had completely turned that on it's ear by the end of the game, possibly changing Thedas forever.

Modifié par speedy111280, 10 mai 2012 - 09:45 .

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Tyranniac wrote...

Obsidian Gryphon wrote...

I wish they could add something extra to the date for a femShep + Liara. Like showing them walking off hand in hand after the kiss to sit on a bench somewhere relatively secluded; relaxed and chatting. Not necessary to hear what they say but to show they were taking some time off for themselves. Then afterwards, show them parting (maybe Liara saying : See you back on the ship) at the Presidium and continue the game from there.

Huh? Why only for femshep? 

  Sorry, I forgot there's a guy Shep. .. I have no guy Shep I want to play, see. So canon Shep ended up only as female for me.

[speedy111280]

ladyvader wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

ladyvader wrote...

I'll be honest.  Traynor's romance is better than an only ME3 romance of Liara which feels very awkwards when they talk on the Citadel to lock in the romance or just be friends.

Hm, I found this whole scene adorable (if Shep starts a new romance with Liara, not for faithful Shepards)

It seems awkward to me.  Shepard almost stumbling over his/her words when telling Liara they would be good together.  Then Liara's reaction made it feel worse to me.  "Ah, no, I can give you my answer now."  No thinking about it really.  It feels awkward.  Maybe not for someone that didn't romance Liara at all. 

I've gone that route twice now, and I probably won't do another ME3 only romance with Liara.  I prefer the whole arc from ME1-->LotSB-->ME3.  That romance flows much better.  Beats having to kiss the VS ass for a third of the game to keep that romance going.

I much prefer my loyal for all 3 games Liara romance but I did find the new Liara romance in ME3 romance rather adorable, especially Liara's reaction, she looks so stunned that Shep is finally returning her feelings.

[Theodoro]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Hey guys, just had an interesting conversation with a guy who used to work in Bioware, he told me some interesting stuff about Liara's development and all, thought I'd pass along the conversation.

That was an interesting read! Where did you come across this BioWare employee?
The way Therum was supposed to play out initially is intriguing, but I'm glad they scrapped it.

speedy111280 wrote...

I much prefer my loyal for all 3 games Liara romance but I did find the new Liara romance in ME3 romance rather adorable, especially Liara's reaction, she looks so stunned that Shep is finally returning her feelings.

Considering just how much you need to talk to her in ME1 before either her or Shepard even think about being together, the new ME3 romance progresses way too fast, in my opinion. I'm not saying that it is not possible, but it's just rather uncharacteristic of Liara. She would have needed more time to process it all. But that's just what I think. Ideally, there would have been one or two scenes exclusive for a new Liara romance build-up for it to feel natural. It would also give incentive for players to try out a ME3 Liara romance, see a different side of it.

Obsidian Gryphon wrote...

I wish they could add something extra to the date for a femShep + Liara. Like showing them walking off hand in hand after the kiss to sit on a bench somewhere relatively secluded; relaxed and chatting. Not necessary to hear what they say but to show they were taking some time off for themselves. Then afterwards, show them parting (maybe Liara saying : See you back on the ship) at the Presidium and continue the game from there.

This is what I initially expected of the Citadel 'dates', as well, only to find out that after two to three years of devotion on Shepard's part he could technically 'lock in' a romance with another character and Liara wouldn't even be bothered by it. The romance locking in should have happened way earlier in the game. I personally thought that the conversation when Liara asks 'Are you still interested in us?' is where I put my foot down and it would have made much more sense. That would consequently allow for more romance-exclusive content with your LI later in the game.

Aristobulus500 wrote...

I would've liked to have seen them actually have a real date - just a chance for them both to get some downtime and just enjoy eachothers company. Perhaps they actually order something at that cafe Liara is always sitting near, or perhaps they just explore an unruined part of the Presidium, and they talk to eachother about their history and things we never got to see.

Exactly - if you think about it, none of the Citadel dates are actually dates. They play out regardless whether a squad mate has been romanced or not and the only thing that really changes is the last bits of dialogue. Each LI should have had at least one romance-exclusive scene, either on the Citadel or on the Normandy, and no, the last romance scene does not count.

For ME1 it made sense that the romance scenes always played out before the final attack on Ilos and that's true for ME2, as well (for the new romances, that is) but in ME3 Shepard's LI should have been beside him/her throughout the course of the game, not just at the end.

Modifié par Theodoro, 10 mai 2012 - 10:26 .

[Tyranniac]

Theodoro wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Hey guys, just had an interesting conversation with a guy who used to work in Bioware, he told me some interesting stuff about Liara's development and all, thought I'd pass along the conversation.

That was an interesting read! Where did you come across this BioWare employee?
The way Therum was supposed to play out initially is intriguing, but I'm glad they scrapped it.

 

That wasn't Therum. Liara was initially supposed to be recruited on Caleston.

Theodoro wrote... 

speedy111280 wrote...

I much prefer my loyal for all 3 games Liara romance but I did find the new Liara romance in ME3 romance rather adorable, especially Liara's reaction, she looks so stunned that Shep is finally returning her feelings.

Considering just how much you need to talk to her in ME1 before either her or Shepard even think about being together, the new ME3 romance progresses way too fast, in my opinion. I'm not saying that it is not possible, but it's just rather uncharacteristic of Liara. She would have needed more time to process it all. But that's just what I think. Ideally, there would have been one or two scenes exclusive for a new Liara romance build-up for it to feel natural. It would also give incentive for players to try out a ME3 Liara romance, see a different side of it.

I disagree. Liara has been in love with Shepard for 3 years and they both know each other very well, doesn't seem strange to me that it progresses quickly.

[speedy111280]

Theodoro wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Hey guys, just had an interesting conversation with a guy who used to work in Bioware, he told me some interesting stuff about Liara's development and all, thought I'd pass along the conversation.

That was an interesting read! Where did you come across this BioWare employee?
The way Therum was supposed to play out initially is intriguing, but I'm glad they scrapped it.

speedy111280 wrote...

I much prefer my loyal for all 3 games Liara romance but I did find the new Liara romance in ME3 romance rather adorable, especially Liara's reaction, she looks so stunned that Shep is finally returning her feelings.

Considering just how much you need to talk to her in ME1 before either her or Shepard even think about being together, the new ME3 romance progresses way too fast, in my opinion. I'm not saying that it is not possible, but it's just rather uncharacteristic of Liara. She would have needed more time to process it all. But that's just what I think. Ideally, there would have been one or two scenes exclusive for a new Liara romance build-up for it to feel natural. It would also give incentive for players to try out a ME3 Liara romance, see a different side of it.

I don't see any reason they would have needed to add any other scenes for a new Liara romance in ME3, nearly every scene since ME1 is the same for the two of them. Liara and Shep have known each other for years by ME3 and Liara has already been in love with Shep for years at the point. I think ME2 and LotSB made it fairly obvious that Liara was still in love with Shepard whether Shepard returned those feelings in ME1 or not. The ME3 romance with Liara is essentially 2 best friends who have fallen in love with each other finally coming together. Liara has known her feelings for Shepard since ME1, it just took Shepard a while to return those feelings or to admit to them depending on how you RP them.

[Theodoro]

Tyranniac wrote...

I disagree. Liara has been in love with Shepard for 3 years and they both know each other very well, doesn't seem strange to me that it progresses quickly.

It's still something that they would need to talk about a lot more than they did. There's a war going on and the final battle is closing in fast. They should make sure that they know what they're getting themselves into, the danger of such an abrupt attachment when they're heading for a practically another suicide mission - similarly to how new Mass Effect romances usually play out in ME1 and ME2, I expected something of the kind for a ME3 Liara/Kaidan/Ashley romance. It's definitely not something to be taken lightly.

I'm not saying that their love might not be there, it obviously is. But it would make sense for Liara to want to talk it over first, make things clear with Shepard as to where they stand and what happens between them, similarly to how Liara asks Shepard about what he/she is fighting for in LotSB. Is this something sudden? Were they having feelings for one another beforehand? What is their plan if they survive? And what if they don't?

speedy111280 wrote...

I don't see any reason they would have needed to add any other scenes for a new Liara romance in ME3, nearly every scene since ME1 is the same for the two of them. Liara and Shep have known each other for years by ME3 and Liara has already been in love with Shep for years at the point. I think ME2 and LotSB made it fairly obvious that Liara was still in love with Shepard whether Shepard returned those feelings in ME1 or not. The ME3 romance with Liara is essentially 2 best friends who have fallen in love with each other finally coming together. Liara has known her feelings for Shepard since ME1, it just took Shepard a while to return those feelings or to admit to them depending on how you RP them.

I'm not disputing that. I do indeed think that Liara's always in one way or another in love with Shepard (though I don't know what she would see in a very Renegade Shepard). It's acting on her feelings that could have been improved. If they planned to make a new ME3 Liara romance available, than they should have taken their time with it, flesh it out.

Modifié par Theodoro, 10 mai 2012 - 10:43 .

[Yuqi]

DarkCloudd wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Sorry I broke into italian in my last post, I was really tired. The whole issue that was being disscussed really irritated me, and it shouldent have.(Maybe it was because I was alittle tipsy.)

Re: the freindzone issue.

While at first the citidel 'date' scene was a little jarring. I noticed that with the acting it came across as if they were joking with eachother. I do love the slight sarcasim in her voice when Liara says 'wow that sounds serious..'

Yea I agree with you on the date thing. I definately heard it as sarcasm in Liara's voice, which means I can live with it. I just think it could have been handled better but its not terrible the way it is. And honestly given the constraints of the game with the development schedule what would we have liked to see as a date?

So I guess I will pose that as the question: If you could rewrite the Cidadel "date" with a Liaramancer that stayed faithful then what would you have seen them do?

 I have no idea, because my imagination is rather limited. I  do like some of the suggestion I've seen here though.

[Theodoro]

DarkCloudd wrote...
So I guess I will pose that as the question: If you could rewrite the Cidadel "date" with a Liaramancer that stayed faithful then what would you have seen them do?

Well, ideally, Liara and Shepard wouldn't be standing in one place staring at the Presidium. They've been doing that a lot already. They would walk around the district as they talk, with pauses every now and then for the player to choose an option in the dialogue wheel.

I would keep Liara's talk about her past, her initial fascination with archeology, and her description of her mother. However, afterwards, I would have her ask Shepard some questions instead about his/her childhood, which is where his/her background would come into play and the story Shepard says would be different.

Then they would conclude that it's the future that they'll need to work forward to. I don't like the fact that pretty much every conversation with Liara has something to do with the war, so I would leave that out; I'd rather them discuss their own future, for real this time. Where they would live, the little blue children, and everything you can think of about their plans. And then, of course, it would end with a kiss and an embrace while the camera pans out across the other side of the Presidium, slowly zooming out as it does so. It'd be a much more thorough discussion than the one we have now, and of course there woudln't be any friend-zoning, since Shepard has already 'locked in' the romance during his/her first talk with Liara on the Normandy in ME3.

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Modifié par Theodoro, 10 mai 2012 - 11:07 .

[Tyranniac]

About the new ME3 Liara romance (I haven't actually tried it, just watched a few scenes on youtube), does the new version of the romance include the scene where Shepard sits in the chair in her office and they flirt?