56469 réponses à ce sujet

[Tyranniac]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Honestly Ashley is one of my most disliked characters, mostly I can't abide her space racism, and of course how mean she is to Liara and how much she talks her down.

I know it makes sense with her character, and her history and all - it's not bad writing, it's just writing her into a character I don't like.

While I don't approve of her xenophobia I think she is interesting, and she doesn't blindly hate aliens after all. She even shows concern for Liara after Benezia's death. She's also very clearly opposed to alien haters like Terra Firma and Cerberus.

Edit: As I said I haven't seen what she's like in ME3 yet - Is she mean to Liara in ME3?

Modifié par Tyranniac, 10 mai 2012 - 04:43 .

[TheCrimsonSpire]

 Oh my, I just saw Pinapple's new Liara photo, and WOW!! :wub:

Edit: **** it, my linking skills suck apperently... 

Modifié par TheCrimsonSpire, 10 mai 2012 - 04:48 .

[speedy111280]

Theodoro wrote...


I'm not disputing that. I do indeed think that Liara's always in one way or another in love with Shepard (though I don't know what she would see in a very Renegade Shepard). It's acting on her feelings that could have been improved. If they planned to make a new ME3 Liara romance available, than they should have taken their time with it, flesh it out.

That's something we will just have to disagree on. I don't think it needed anything different before the lock in date because it was essentially 2 best friends getting together. They did all the stuff that they put into the other new romances in the previous games, they didn't have to do all the getting to know you stuff like Shepard and Traynor did or Shepard and Cortez.

[Ecrulis]

Tyranniac wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Honestly Ashley is one of my most disliked characters, mostly I can't abide her space racism, and of course how mean she is to Liara and how much she talks her down.

I know it makes sense with her character, and her history and all - it's not bad writing, it's just writing her into a character I don't like.

While I don't approve of her xenophobia I think she is interesting, and she doesn't blindly hate aliens after all. She even shows concern for Liara after Benezia's death. She's also very clearly opposed to alien haters like Terra Firma and Cerberus.

Edit: As I said I haven't seen what she's like in ME3 yet - Is she mean to Liara in ME3?

No she is not, its just for me it seems shes traded one annoying character trait for another, complete xenophobia in ME1 to complete paranoia about cerberus and shep in ME3, and as has been stated well written character but one my shep would hate. 

edit because aparently my keyboard hates me

Modifié par Ecrulis, 10 mai 2012 - 04:46 .

[speedy111280]

Ecrulis wrote...


Always thought of Liara as a sort of Unofficial XO, and in terms of Emily Wong, it still baffles me that they could kill of her character via twitter, I just have no words for how lazy that is, not even an in game email, freaking twitter <_<.

I was bummed that Emily was killed off on the Twitter feed because it meant she wasn't going to be in the game because she was the only reporter I'd actually liked from the previous games but her death on Twitter was kind of awesome.

[lillitheris]

TheCrimsonSpire wrote...

 Oh my, I just saw Pinapple's new Liara photo, and WOW!! :wub:

Here‘s a direct link. Very nice…although it looks more like Aria, to me.


Edit: what the h- is up with the links today?

Modifié par lillitheris, 10 mai 2012 - 04:50 .

[IliyaMoroumetz]

Tyranniac wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Honestly Ashley is one of my most disliked characters, mostly I can't abide her space racism, and of course how mean she is to Liara and how much she talks her down.

I know it makes sense with her character, and her history and all - it's not bad writing, it's just writing her into a character I don't like.

While I don't approve of her xenophobia I think she is interesting, and she doesn't blindly hate aliens after all. She even shows concern for Liara after Benezia's death. She's also very clearly opposed to alien haters like Terra Firma and Cerberus.

Edit: As I said I haven't seen what she's like in ME3 yet - Is she mean to Liara in ME3?

Alright, full on stop.

You two, let's get a few things straight;

Ashley is not racist nor xenophobic.  Her family was screwed over because of aliens, and sure, she doesn't like them much, but if she was either one, she never would have joined Shepard's crew.  So, knock it off!

She harbors 'suspicion' in ME1, not the racism or xenophobia you claim she has.  There is a big difference there.  Check her dialogue if you don't believe me.

And you might want to take a look at the defintiions of 'Xenophobic' and 'racist' from an actual dictionary.   Because if you were to read them, you'd realize that neither one pertain to Ashley in any way, shape, or form.

Speaking for myself, I firmly believe Ashley and Liara get along very well.  They both have family histories they don't like, they both lost parents that sacrificed themselves for their children, and they consider family a priority.

I'm sorry for lashing out, but honestly, it's getting so very tiresome seeing people toss around words they don't even know the definition for when there are characters so well loved and guilty of far more egregious things that get off scott free.

Modifié par IliyaMoroumetz, 10 mai 2012 - 04:54 .

[Tyranniac]

Ecrulis wrote...

No she is not, its just for me it seems shes traded one annoying character trait for another, complete xenophobia in ME1 to complete paranoia about cerberus and shep in ME3, and as has been stated well written character but one my shep would hate. 

edit because aparently my keyboard hates me

Ah alright I see. Well as I said I think I will find that interesting, not sure how my Shep will feel about it yet, will see when I get to those scenes.

[Ecrulis]

speedy111280 wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...


Always thought of Liara as a sort of Unofficial XO, and in terms of Emily Wong, it still baffles me that they could kill of her character via twitter, I just have no words for how lazy that is, not even an in game email, freaking twitter <_<.

I was bummed that Emily was killed off on the Twitter feed because it meant she wasn't going to be in the game because she was the only reporter I'd actually liked from the previous games but her death on Twitter was kind of awesome.

Oh I agree it was well written and made seem awesome, its just of all people??

[Theodoro]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Honestly Ashley is one of my most disliked characters, mostly I can't abide her space racism, and of course how mean she is to Liara and how much she talks her down.

I know it makes sense with her character, and her history and all - it's not bad writing, it's just writing her into a character I don't like.

I agree completely, though I respect the fact that one such character was needed in Mass Effect so that you would have these different views of humans regarding aliens since, in my opinion, it's one of the themes of ME1. That allows you to make your own view and share it in the game itself. That doesn't make me dislike her less, though. I wish we had the option to 'turn' her as we can turn Kaidan into a xenophobe.

[Ajosraa]

I think that Ashely's supposed Racism, is a bit overblown by some. As is her supposed xenophobia. I see more of that in my own house with my other family members then I see from her.

To me, she just shows signs of being loyal to the human race. What she said did not seem contain malice or hate. Just a predictable "us first attitude", given her past and profession. She is in the military, that mindset would just follow. If you want complex interactions, you call a politician.

She dosent even say hatefull things, just shows a lack of trust. But in ME1, that all follows given the situation.

[Ecrulis]

Tyranniac wrote...

Ecrulis wrote...

No she is not, its just for me it seems shes traded one annoying character trait for another, complete xenophobia in ME1 to complete paranoia about cerberus and shep in ME3, and as has been stated well written character but one my shep would hate. 

edit because aparently my keyboard hates me

Ah alright I see. Well as I said I think I will find that interesting, not sure how my Shep will feel about it yet, will see when I get to those scenes.

Yea, my shep has zero tolerance for disloyalty, the only reason she can forgive Kaiden is because he seems genuinly sorry for his actions and while ashley does apologize in the hospital when confronted during the coup she is right back on the I don't trust you bus, and while my shep wouldn't kill her (even if she did survive Virmire) because of it she is certainly not giving her another chance after she spit in her face and called her a traitor in horizon, still treats you like a traitor on mars, and regardless of the hospital discussions shes right back to your with cerberus during the coup.

At that point my shep would be done with her. Theres a reason she has an immense amount of respect for Garrus and Tali (and of course Liara but thats also cause she loves her :happy:) and thats because they were able to voice their concerns about cerberus without calling shepard a traitor.

[DOsquareZER]

My contribution to the ash argument.
Personally I love her character. Ethnocentric views and all.
http://d0n7bl1nk.com...ams-letting-go/    its an interesting read, and she uses words better then I do.

Modifié par doozer12, 10 mai 2012 - 05:01 .

[lillitheris]

Ajosraa wrote...

I think that Ashely's supposed Racism, is a bit overblown by some. As is her supposed xenophobia. I see more of that in my own house with my other family members then I see from her.

To me, she just shows signs of being loyal to the human race. What she said did not seem contain malice or hate. Just a predictable "us first attitude", given her past and profession.

Regardless of the reason…that’s pretty much the definition.

But could we maybe give Ashley a rest?

[Tyranniac]

 

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

Alright, full on stop.

Let's get a few things straight;

Ashley is not racist nor xenophobic.  Her family was screwed over because of aliens, and sure, she doesn't like them much, but if she was either one, she never would have joined Shepard's crew.  So, knock it off!

She harbors 'suspicion' in ME1, not the racism or xenophobia you claim she has.  There is a big difference there. 

And you might want to take a look at the defintiions of 'Xenophobic' and 'racist' from an actual dictionary.   Because if you were to read them, you'd realize that neither one pertain to Ashley in any way, shape, or form. 

Speaking for myself, I firmly believe Ashley and Liara get along very well.  They both have family histories they don't like, they both lost parents that sacrificed themselves for their children, and they consider family a priority. 

I'm sorry for lashing out, but honestly, it's getting so very tiresome seeing people toss around words they don't even know the definition for when there are characters so well loved and guilty of far more egregious things that get off scott free. 

 

What-... But-...

My post was meant to be positive. I don't think Ashley hates aliens, and I certainly think that her outlook changed after spending time with a multi-species crew since she hadn't had much (if any) direct contact with aliens before. She -does- display a lot of suspicion and at times a rather strong dislike towards aliens in ME1 however.

Also, I don't really think Liara and Ashley got along very well, Ashley is hostile towards her on a few occasions, but I think that changes somewhat later on in ME1 where she displays concern for Liara. They have probably gotten to know each other better by this point.

Modifié par Tyranniac, 10 mai 2012 - 05:01 .

[Aristobulus500]

Theodoro wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Honestly Ashley is one of my most disliked characters, mostly I can't abide her space racism, and of course how mean she is to Liara and how much she talks her down.

I know it makes sense with her character, and her history and all - it's not bad writing, it's just writing her into a character I don't like.

I agree completely, though I respect the fact that one such character was needed in Mass Effect so that you would have these different views of humans regarding aliens since, in my opinion, it's one of the themes of ME1. That allows you to make your own view and share it in the game itself. That doesn't make me dislike her less, though. I wish we had the option to 'turn' her as we can turn Kaidan into a xenophobe.

Honestly? I just wish the game let you do the opposite, I think it'd be interesting. By that I mean, it's very easy to play a space racist Shepard that does not trust or get along with aliens at all.

But it's almost impossible to play a, well, a race traitor Shep or at least a xenophiliac that vastly prefers aliens to humans. Much less one that prefers a specific race of aliens to others...

Sure, you can roleplay it out in your mind, but it won't get reflected in the dialogue or actions, like a space racist Shep would still show off that he just doesn't like aliens.

This is different than a paragon Shepard because Paragon Shepard treats everyone nice and equal, he doesn't have special preferences, I'm simply suggesting the opposite end of the extremism scale, which would have its own slew of problems and conflicts.

[rubynorman]

About Ashley from Liara's POV if she kills Ashley
youtu.be/jm6-P1tawIc

[Grimwick]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Honestly Ashley is one of my most disliked characters, mostly I can't abide her space racism, and of course how mean she is to Liara and how much she talks her down.

I know it makes sense with her character, and her history and all - it's not bad writing, it's just writing her into a character I don't like.

I don't actually mind Ashley and I think her 'racism' was a bit exaggerated. Sure, she prefers humans to other species but that is an understandable point of view and she does later learn to deal with it and calls Tali a sister to her.

That said, I agree with her treatment of Liara. It always really annoys me and I just have to shout at her when she gloats or when she constantly makes snipes at Liara. <_<

[TheCrimsonSpire]

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

She harbors 'suspicion' in ME1, not the racism or xenophobia you claim she has.  There is a big difference there.  Check her dialogue if you don't believe me.

I agree with everything you said except this. There is "suspicion", and then there is full blown ignorance, where she straight out tells you to your face, that she thinks aliens = animals. 

It's like as if, for example, I was walking down the sidewalk with you, and you knew I had bad experience with black people in my family's history. We then see a group of them walk on the opposite side of the road, and I vindictively say, "I can't tell the difference between the animals and the black people around here."

Yaaaa, that comment wouldn't fly so well would it? That's why people have issue with the woman, because she speaks her mind and doesn't hold back, even when it isn't appropriate.

[Theodoro]

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

Alright, full on stop.

You two, let's get a few things straight;

Ashley is not racist nor xenophobic. Her family was screwed over because of aliens, and sure, she doesn't like them much, but if she was either one, she never would have joined Shepard's crew. So, knock it off!

That's a bit unnecessary. I'm sure everyone is fully aware of what racism and xenophobia is, and the context in which they are used here. Precisely Ashley not liking aliens may be a reason for somebody to dislike her. It's just an opinion and you're entitled to one as much as the rest of us are. Besides, when Ashley joined Shepard's crew there were no aliens on board, so that doesn't make sense.

The common reason here, I suspect, is that even though Ashley does eventually accept the aliens' presence, she's still mean to Liara throughout ME1. Naturally, us being Liara fans, we would defend our favourite character. Ashley doesn't have an incentive to attack her at every possible opportunity. Their history might be similar, as you described it, but that still does not mean that they get along.

Different views, different fans, different characters. That's why I don't think it's possible for a player to like everyone in the game, and that's why BioWare have made such a good job at making so many characters as distinct as they are.

Modifié par Theodoro, 10 mai 2012 - 05:10 .

[Ajosraa]

lillitheris wrote...

Ajosraa wrote...

I think that Ashely's supposed Racism, is a bit overblown by some. As is her supposed xenophobia. I see more of that in my own house with my other family members then I see from her.

To me, she just shows signs of being loyal to the human race. What she said did not seem contain malice or hate. Just a predictable "us first attitude", given her past and profession.

Regardless of the reason…that’s pretty much the definition.

But could we maybe give Ashley a rest?

No

My point is basicly what IliyaMoroumetz wrote, but trying to avoid a long drawn out explination. Ash does not HATE aliens. She just mistrusts them. That mistrust is perfectly legitimate given her lack of previous information. Also whatever info she does have is probably based on rumors, conjecture, and propaganda.

I would be warry of any new Aliens I meet too. So being warry, and trusting what i know over the unknown...Does that make me a racist?

Modifié par Ajosraa, 10 mai 2012 - 05:10 .

[Ecrulis]

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Honestly Ashley is one of my most disliked characters, mostly I can't abide her space racism, and of course how mean she is to Liara and how much she talks her down.

I know it makes sense with her character, and her history and all - it's not bad writing, it's just writing her into a character I don't like.

While I don't approve of her xenophobia I think she is interesting, and she doesn't blindly hate aliens after all. She even shows concern for Liara after Benezia's death. She's also very clearly opposed to alien haters like Terra Firma and Cerberus.

Edit: As I said I haven't seen what she's like in ME3 yet - Is she mean to Liara in ME3?

Alright, full on stop.

You two, let's get a few things straight;

Ashley is not racist nor xenophobic.  Her family was screwed over because of aliens, and sure, she doesn't like them much, but if she was either one, she never would have joined Shepard's crew.  So, knock it off!

She harbors 'suspicion' in ME1, not the racism or xenophobia you claim she has.  There is a big difference there.  Check her dialogue if you don't believe me.

And you might want to take a look at the defintiions of 'Xenophobic' and 'racist' from an actual dictionary.   Because if you were to read them, you'd realize that neither one pertain to Ashley in any way, shape, or form.

Speaking for myself, I firmly believe Ashley and Liara get along very well.  They both have family histories they don't like, they both lost parents that sacrificed themselves for their children, and they consider family a priority.

I'm sorry for lashing out, but honestly, it's getting so very tiresome seeing people toss around words they don't even know the definition for when there are characters so well loved and guilty of far more egregious things that get off scott free.

I apologize if I contributed to this, my contributions to this werent meant to be me personally attacking her character, I think all her traits her apprehension to aliens in ME1 to her paranoia against shep and cerberusin ME3 fit her character and were well written, My responses were meant to be taken from my characters view had Ashley been the one to survive Virmire, again IRL I like the way the character is written and think it makes for an interesting dynamic ( I will probably do a paragon adept run through and have ash survive to add a bit of frustration and renegade at how a trusted friend no longer trust shep).

Again speaking for my self, I like the character and how shes written, speaking for my shep her last straw would have been the coup.

[IliyaMoroumetz]

TheCrimsonSpire wrote...

I agree with everything you said except this. There is "suspicion", and then there is full blown ignorance, where she straight out tells you to your face, that she thinks aliens = animals. 

It's like as if, for example, I was walking down the sidewalk with you, and you knew I had bad experience with black people in my family's history. We then see a group of them walk on the opposite side of the road, and I vindictively say, "I can't tell the difference between the animals and the black people around here."

Yaaaa, that comment wouldn't fly so well would it? That's why people have issue with the woman, because she speaks her mind and doesn't hold back, even when it isn't appropriate.

You do realize that in that same analogy, she's referring to humanity as well, right?  How everyone looks out for their own?

[Ajosraa]

In ME3, Many of the races "Look after their own first". If anything, there is a little bit of xenophobia all around.

The Asari wait untill the last min

The Salarian's are also trying to stay out of it

The Turian's wont budge untill you get them Krogan support.

The Krogan wont play untill you cure the Genophage.

There all looking after their own first. This is just to be expected imo. It dosent mean they hate everyone else nessisarily.

Modifié par Ajosraa, 10 mai 2012 - 05:18 .

[rubynorman]

TheCrimsonSpire wrote...

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

She harbors 'suspicion' in ME1, not the racism or xenophobia you claim she has.  There is a big difference there.  Check her dialogue if you don't believe me.

I agree with everything you said except this. There is "suspicion", and then there is full blown ignorance, where she straight out tells you to your face, that she thinks aliens = animals. 

It's like as if, for example, I was walking down the sidewalk with you, and you knew I had bad experience with black people in my family's history. We then see a group of them walk on the opposite side of the road, and I vindictively say, "I can't tell the difference between the animals and the black people around here."

Yaaaa, that comment wouldn't fly so well would it? That's why people have issue with the woman, because she speaks her mind and doesn't hold back, even when it isn't appropriate.

Ashley was talking about the keeper in that scene. She doesn't like alien, XO Priesly didn't trust alien too.
"All these dammed aliens aboard the Alliance's most advanced ship. I just don't trust them. Especially that dammed asari. and a quarian! What does Shepard think this is, a zoo?"
But after ME1, he changed his mind and
"I'm taking a look back at past entries in this journal. I [UNRECOVERABLE DATE] how blind I was at the time.... Shepard brought all these aliens on board, and these's no way we could have accomplished what we did without them. I'm proud to say [CORRUPT] die for any member of this crew, regardless of what wolrd they were born on."
I believe that Ashley changed her view on alien after working with them too. :happy: