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[Tyranniac]

Akernis wrote...

I think trying to rationalise the satement makes it loose its impact. I might just be romantazising but it is my belief that she just "knew" Shepard was really him/herself after they touched again, recognising the psyche or soul of the person she loved.

I agree with you. I think she "knew". I mean, she didn't have any real way of knowing, but she still knew.

Modifié par Tyranniac, 13 mai 2012 - 03:55 .

[Aristobulus500]

I would think that Liara had her suspicions, but when she was able to mind meld with Shepard again, then she had actual proof. Which would be, at the earliest, in LotSB on the tour of the Normandy probably.

[DarkCloudd]

frudi wrote...

DarkCloudd wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Did anyone else here notice Shepard gets 'saved' alot more in ME3.

Yes dear god this. Of all the ways that ME3 went this is one of the things that pissed me off the most. I'm not completely sure how to express it but it seems like they threw Shepard under the bus the entire game, just so they could kill Shep off at the end of the game and have the new players in ME3 believe Shepard wasn't suppose to live. It also seemd like all of those upgrades that you gave Shepard in ME2 became completely worthless during the 6 month "Alliance Paid Vacation".

I noticed it as well, but I don't mind, in fact I actually like it. It helps to show that Shepard, as unstoppable as she may appear, still relies on her friends to help her out, even save her life now and then. It's especially effective and touching because it's always her closest friends that save her, the ones that had stuck with her since the beginning (Anderson, Tali, Liara...). And they're not just saving her, they are also there for her at other times, having honest heart-to-heart conversations with her, supporting and encouraging her when she needs it the most. It all adds a good deal of realism to the relationships between Shep and her friends and doesn't make these seem as one directional as they may have appeared in previous games.

Well like I said I'm not really good at being eloquent about things. I don't mind that they showed Shepard being human and having to be picked up. In the last 2 games it was Shepard doing all of the heavy lifting so to speak. Shepard was the one that was helping and being the indomitable warrior but then we get to 3 and it seems like the turtle has completely lost its shell. Shepard seems weak and doubts herself and its the other characters that are picking her up this time. I can understand why they did it but it just seems like they went overboard with the "lets pick Shepard up" mantra this time.

Either that or I'm still grumpy about the Kei Lang "plot armor" fights that you can't win regardless of what you do. Getting beaten by the Reapers in battles I can handle, they were portrayed as the Maginot Line (yes I know that it belonged to the French but it was the only thing I could think of) of the ME Universe. But getting beaten by some wanna-be space ninja that can only win by having a gunship (which you killed one in ME2 why can't I kill this one) blowing up the temple. In the words of another Shepard, this one from Stargate Atlantis, "If this were a real fight I would have shot you by now." 

It just seems way out of character for Shepard thats all. At least to me.

And since I have managed to get this off topic a Liara pic for good measure.

[kyg_20X6]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

I would think that Liara had her suspicions, but when she was able to mind meld with Shepard again, then she had actual proof. Which would be, at the earliest, in LotSB on the tour of the Normandy probably.

This.

Maybe Liara thought it was her Shepard when they kissed. She knew it was her Shepard when they melded. Maybe, she did 'know' in that initial kiss, since she was right. Maybe this is what she means.

[Theodoro]

DarkCloudd wrote...

It just seems way out of character for Shepard thats all. At least to me.

I personally thought it was beautifully made. Keep in mind, Shepard's been saving the galaxy for such a ridiculous amount of time - Sovereign, Saren, the Collectors, the Reapers. With each battle, the burden placed on Shepard's shoulders slowly becomes nearly insurmountable. The fate of the entire galaxy is in his/her hands. Granted, Shepard is a very unique individual, and there's a reason why everyone would follow him/her to hell and back, but he/she is still human, not a synthetic.

It's only realistic that Shepard would begin to feel that burden weighing on him/her. There's an impossible task that needs to be made; an unstoppable force that has wiped out all galactic civilization for hundreds or thousands of cycles needs to be stopped, and Shepard is the tip of the spear for all organic (and synthetic) life that opposes the Reapers. That's why having these friendships and having Liara at his/her side is something that I think he/she can't do without, and I had no problem whatsoever seeing Shepard actually leaning on the help of others from time to time.

[Tyranniac]

Theodoro wrote...

DarkCloudd wrote...

It just seems way out of character for Shepard thats all. At least to me.

I personally thought it was beautifully made. Keep in mind, Shepard's been saving the galaxy for such a ridiculous amount of time - Sovereign, Saren, the Collectors, the Reapers. With each battle, the burden placed on Shepard's shoulders slowly becomes nearly insurmountable. The fate of the entire galaxy is in his/her hands. Granted, Shepard is a very unique individual, and there's a reason why everyone would follow him/her to hell and back, but he/she is still human, not a synthetic.

It's only realistic that Shepard would begin to feel that burden weighing on him/her. There's an impossible task that needs to be made; an unstoppable force that has wiped out all galactic civilization for hundreds or thousands of cycles needs to be stopped, and Shepard is the tip of the spear for all organic (and synthetic) life that opposes the Reapers. That's why having these friendships and having Liara at his/her side is something that I think he/she can't do without, and I had no problem whatsoever seeing Shepard actually leaning on the help of others from time to time.

I'm with Theo on this one.

[DOsquareZER]

Shepard's tired (and also human), you make mistakes/fall down on your ass when your incredibly tired - that's why its great we spent the past two games developing crew and friendships - it's their turn to have some glory in the spotlight and keep shepard's ass safe and be a bit more (after all shep's done for 'em its about damn time) and the best part is theres no commitment or paybacks to be had in the end - I can ditch 'em all on gilligan's island later and hog all the fame and fortune of saving a heavily nuked planet and overpopulated solar system for myself when Shep survives the red ending! :-D ....the worst part is shepard will be paying for all her drinks.  shame.
(that last part was sarcasm...)

Modifié par doozer12, 13 mai 2012 - 04:40 .

[Tyranniac]

doozer12 wrote...

(that last part was sarcasm...)

Really? We couldn't tell. <_< 

[Akernis]

Tyranniac wrote...

Theodoro wrote...

DarkCloudd wrote...

It just seems way out of character for Shepard thats all. At least to me.

I personally thought it was beautifully made. Keep in mind, Shepard's been saving the galaxy for such a ridiculous amount of time - Sovereign, Saren, the Collectors, the Reapers. With each battle, the burden placed on Shepard's shoulders slowly becomes nearly insurmountable. The fate of the entire galaxy is in his/her hands. Granted, Shepard is a very unique individual, and there's a reason why everyone would follow him/her to hell and back, but he/she is still human, not a synthetic.

It's only realistic that Shepard would begin to feel that burden weighing on him/her. There's an impossible task that needs to be made; an unstoppable force that has wiped out all galactic civilization for hundreds or thousands of cycles needs to be stopped, and Shepard is the tip of the spear for all organic (and synthetic) life that opposes the Reapers. That's why having these friendships and having Liara at his/her side is something that I think he/she can't do without, and I had no problem whatsoever seeing Shepard actually leaning on the help of others from time to time.

I'm with Theo on this one.

As am I

While I would have liked to have it be a little more equal about who saves who when across all three games so wasn't Shepard saves everyone in the first/second and people saves him/her in the third" I still feel that the fact that Shepard opens up with doupts and worry makes him/her more human and less like... well an action hero who just saves averyone and the world wihtouth breaking a sweat.

I generally liked the humanity that Shepard showed in ME3. 

Modifié par Akernis, 13 mai 2012 - 04:59 .

[Tyranniac]

Akernis wrote...

While I would have liked to have it be a little more equal about who saves who when across all three games so wasn't Shepard saves everyone in the first/second and people saves him/her in the third" I still feel that the fact that Shepard opens up with doupts and worry makes him/her more human and less like... well an action hero who just saves averyone and the world wihtouth breaking a sweat.

i generally liked the humanity the Shepard showed in ME3. 

I think it makes sense that it is in the third game that this occurs, since Shepard has never been under this much pressure before.

[Akernis]

Tyranniac wrote...

Akernis wrote...

While I would have liked to have it be a little more equal about who saves who when across all three games so wasn't Shepard saves everyone in the first/second and people saves him/her in the third" I still feel that the fact that Shepard opens up with doupts and worry makes him/her more human and less like... well an action hero who just saves averyone and the world wihtouth breaking a sweat.

i generally liked the humanity that Shepard showed in ME3. 

I think it makes sense that it is in the third game that this occurs, since Shepard has never been under this much pressure before.

I agree that it makes sense and I wasn't disputing its logic, I would simply have liked for it to be more equally divided, not that it really bothers me, just a simple preference.

[Robhuzz]

Tyranniac wrote...

frudi wrote...

I guess I'm the only one who thinks that Liara's line on Cronos Stations isn't meant to be taken entirely literally? I imagine she's just trying to comfort Shepard and ease her (Shepard's) doubts, taking some poetic license with her words. While I do trust she would be able to tell if Shepard had been replaced or even altered, I would imagine it would be as the two of them spend some meaningful time together. She certainly doesn't posses any ability to literally recognise Shepard just by touch, like at their first reunion on Illium.
In fact, if anyone could identify Shepard just by touch, it would be Javik

I don't think anyone is saying it should be taken completely literally. Although I do think that the initial kiss on Illium felt "right" to her, if that makes any sense.

Edit: Oh, this was a top, was it?

*snip*

Well, considering Liara's talk about a true union in ME1 and all, I'd be surprised if a romanced Liara doesn't have some kind of connection to Shepard, allowing her to somehow sense that Shepard is real. With a single touch or kiss maybe. A true union with an Asari complete with melding and all is meant to appear rather mystical after all.

I think you certainly could take that line on Cronos station literally.

[kyg_20X6]

I absolutely love the mutual assurance/reliance of my Shepard and Liara. They need eachother to get through this and they're fighting for eachother. I love how the dialogue reflected this perfectly.

[Akernis]

frudi wrote...

Ok, this is entirely off-topic and I apologise if it seems weird or if has already been answered. I thought I could ignore it, just think of it as an interesting peculiarity, but I've come to now notice it every single time and it's just killing me to not give in to my curiosity (yeah, I can go totally ocd about some things).

So... @Akernis... why by the Goddess do you keep spelling 'doubt' with a 'p'?

Bad habbit 
I am not a native english speaker so spelling dosen't always  come as naturally to me as I might have liked, epsecially if I type fast. 

[Akernis]

frudi wrote...

Akernis wrote...

I think trying to rationalise the satement makes it loose its impact. I might just be romantazising but it is my belief that she just "knew" Shepard was really him/herself after they touched again, recognising the psyche or soul of the person she loved.

If you want to get technical I would assume that she opened her mind to Shepard, not a melding, just enough to recognise the essence of the person she knew.

I honestly love your interpretation of how she might recognise Shepard so quickly. It's surely up to headcanon, because we don't know enough about asari mental abilities to say if it's even plausible, but I could easily accept it as possible.

Thank you

frudi wrote...
But I don't think rationalising Liara's statement or not taking it literally makes it loose any of its impact. My interpretation of Liara's words is that it's the strength of their bond that leaves her with no doubt that Shepard is really her true unaltered self. What level of intimacy between them is required to fully achieve that level of recognition, doesn't really matter to me. Whether it's the first time they touch, when they first kiss or when they join again during Liara's visit to the Normandy, what matters is that their bond and their love is what sets Liara's mind at ease about what state Shepard has returned to her in.
Her particular use of words on Cronos Station could just be her way to convey to Shepard that there is absolutely no doubt in her mind, that Shepard really is who she's supposed to be, that Shepard doesn't need to doubt her own identity any more.

Okay I see what you mean

Also as Robhuzz said the line might not be meant literally but I think it easily could have been.

frudi wrote...

Akernis wrote...
Bad habbit 
I am not a native english speaker so spelling dosen't always  come as naturally to me as I might have liked, epsecially if I type fast. 

Hehe, fair enough.
I'm not a native english speaker either and I know my posts would be a spelling nightmare without my trusty spellcheck 

I don't usually use spellcheck so I often have to edit my posts, sometimes several times . 

Modifié par Akernis, 13 mai 2012 - 06:21 .

[Nharia1]

So I started to play through ME3 yet again (8th time sadly, I just ignore the ending given and go with mine), and I've used a save that I recently started, Adept Renegade until I met Liara in ME1, then in ME2 I was a Renegade Infiltrator (The way I work it, is that she's always been a bit more gun savvy, being a spacer and all that, plus her implants weren't working properly, so she went with the only other thing she knew how to do), and now she's back to being an Adpet Paragon.
The reason she switches back to Paragon and Renegade, is Liara.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Tyranniac wrote...

Akernis wrote...

I think trying to rationalise the satement makes it loose its impact. I might just be romantazising but it is my belief that she just "knew" Shepard was really him/herself after they touched again, recognising the psyche or soul of the person she loved.

I agree with you. I think she "knew". I mean, she didn't have any real way of knowing, but she still knew.

I think this is the way I interpretate her line. She "knew" it was the real Shepard that was in front of her on Illium, not just a clone or VI.

[Grimwick]

Lizardviking wrote...

Tyranniac wrote...

Akernis wrote...

I think trying to rationalise the satement makes it loose its impact. I might just be romantazising but it is my belief that she just "knew" Shepard was really him/herself after they touched again, recognising the psyche or soul of the person she loved.

I agree with you. I think she "knew". I mean, she didn't have any real way of knowing, but she still knew.

I think this is the way I interpretate her line. She "knew" it was the real Shepard that was in front of her on Illium, not just a clone or VI.

Same here, I tend to romanticisize this - she just knew it was Shepard from the moment they met eyes again.

[LetsGoToMyHouse]

Really loving the conversation we have going, everyone!!

And I'd like to wish all mothers out there a Happy Mother's Day!! And a Happy Mother's Day to the mother of our little blue children, of course!!

[Tyranniac]

 So silent... 

Anyone out there?

[moreeman06]

DarkCloudd wrote...

frudi wrote...

DarkCloudd wrote...

Yuqi wrote...

Did anyone else here notice Shepard gets 'saved' alot more in ME3.

*snip*

Either that or I'm still grumpy about the Kei Lang "plot armor" fights that you can't win regardless of what you do. Getting beaten by the Reapers in battles I can handle, they were portrayed as the Maginot Line (yes I know that it belonged to the French but it was the only thing I could think of) of the ME Universe. But getting beaten by some wanna-be space ninja that can only win by having a gunship (which you killed one in ME2 why can't I kill this one) blowing up the temple. In the words of another Shepard, this one from Stargate Atlantis, "If this were a real fight I would have shot you by now." 

It just seems way out of character for Shepard thats all. At least to me.
*snip*

its ok because the maginot line was captured by like 10 Germans and a dog (that's a guesstimate i can't remember exactly how many germans wer involved but either way the Maginot Line fell to an absurdly small amount of enemy troops and the enemy took no casualties).    so what your saying i guess is that the Reapers should have been destroyed by a unrealistically small amount of troops and all those troops should have survived.  Dark Cloud i like your logicB)

as for the cronos station line, It's one of my favorite moments in the game,  it was just one of those little moments that made me smile and go awww.   and I don't think that its lessened whether you take it literally or not.  if you do take it literally she could also mean touch in a sensual way as in there post LOTSB.  no matter what though all of us can be right given our interpretations so lets just agree that it was one of the game's finest little moments 

sorry if I'm bringing up a old topic i just read over this part and felt the need to comment

edit:  quote fail fix'd.  and i might as well just say that i personally headcanon it like Akernis I was just saying another way it could be interpreted:D

2nd edit:  top

 
new one from magicalzebra 
http://magicalzebra....kissu-301478726 

Modifié par moreeman06, 13 mai 2012 - 09:46 .

[Tyranniac]

[quote]moreeman06 wrote...

[quote]DarkCloudd wrote...

[quote]frudi wrote...

[quote]DarkCloudd wrote...

[quote]Yuqi wrote...

Did anyone else here notice Shepard gets 'saved' alot more in ME3.

[/quote]

*snip*

Either that or I'm still grumpy about the Kei Lang "plot armor" fights that you can't win regardless of what you do. Getting beaten by the Reapers in battles I can handle, they were portrayed as the Maginot Line (yes I know that it belonged to the French but it was the only thing I could think of) of the ME Universe. But getting beaten by some wanna-be space ninja that can only win by having a gunship (which you killed one in ME2 why can't I kill this one) blowing up the temple. In the words of another Shepard, this one from Stargate Atlantis, "If this were a real fight I would have shot you by now." 

It just seems way out of character for Shepard thats all. At least to me.
*snip*[/quote]

its ok because the maginot line was captured by like 10 Germans and a dog (that's a guesstimate i can't remember exactly how many germans wer involved but either way the Maginot Line fell to an absurdly small amount of enemy troops and the enemy took no casualties).    so what your saying i guess is that the Reapers should have been destroyed by a unrealistically small amount of troops and all those troops should have survived.  Dark Cloud i like your logicB)

as for the cronos station line, It's one of my favorite moments in the game,  it was just one of those little moments that made me smile and go awww.   and I don't think that its lessened whether you take it literally or not.  if you do take it literally she could also mean touch in a sensual way as in there post LOTSB.  no matter what though all of us can be right given our interpretations so lets just agree that it was one of the game's finest little moments 

sorry if I'm bringing up a old topic i just read over this part and felt the need to comment
[/quote]

Argh the quote fail, I can't make any sense of anything, fix it!

Edit: What the... how is it happening to me too? 

Modifié par Tyranniac, 13 mai 2012 - 09:28 .