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[Sarcastic Tasha]

I loved Shepard's mam vs dad conversation with Matriarch Aethyta. I'm sure there'll be lots of cultural differences Shepard and Liara will have to figure out. Would they want a traditional human wedding? Or a traditional asari wedding? Or maybe a mix of both. I dare say asari are used to making compromises when it comes to tradition and culture, they are diplomatic by nature and encouraged to marry aliens. At least humans and asari probably have the same maths (base 10 maths because 10 fingers).

[Wulfram]

Bondmate is used in game as pretty much equivalent to husband/wife. You can be registered as a bondmate with the government, you have a special gown and bracelet for your bond ceremony.

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

I loved Shepard's mam vs dad conversation with Matriarch Aethyta.

It annoyed me a little.  It's not really a conversation that makes sense - really it would all come down to picking the appropriate translation for concepts that wouldn't really match up between the Asari language and English.

It also seems to conflict with Liara's conversations in ME1, where it seems like Liara is using "father" only because there isn't a better word available.

edit:  Also, my FemShep has no problem with being anthropocentric about herself, so she's not going to be called father, thank you very much.

Modifié par Wulfram, 14 mai 2012 - 11:30 .

[Arcataye]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

'Bondmate' seems somewhat clinical. Does it just refer to who the Asari received the genetic data from? The codex says these relationships can be flings for reproduction or long-lasting relationships. Do they use 'bondmate' for both?

- 'Asari exchange them sometimes, with good friends or... their bondmates.'
And the cute little smile in the end. It's definitely not used to describe flings.
-

My Shepard would go with T'Soni as the daughters name and would use the term bondmate.
She would be more than happy to adopt other possible asari culture and customs too to her everyday life.

Modifié par Arcataye, 14 mai 2012 - 11:31 .

[Akernis]

While I am sure that Liara's last name, T'soni, is from her mother do we actually ever hear Benezia be mentioned as Benezia T'soni?

[lillitheris]

Robhuzz wrote...

I missed the conversation with Aethyta in ME3 - silly me - but I never got the impression that the Benezia/Aethyta union was any more than a fling. Certainly they hadn't been together long enough to get married? Therefore Liara would automatically receive Benezia's surname.

You should play the conversation. In short, you’re incorrect.

…

Asari have the surname of their mothers. It seems simple enough.

[lillitheris]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

On that note, 'bondmate' doesn't exist in non-Asari vocabulary.

…Er, ‘spouse’?

Modifié par lillitheris, 14 mai 2012 - 11:33 .

[kyg_20X6]

Wulfram wrote...

Bondmate is used in game as pretty much equivalent to husband/wife. You can be registered as a bondmate with the government, you have a special gown and bracelet for your bond ceremony.

Really? That's cool to know. So I guess the term does have sentinental 'weight'.
I also find it interesting that people expect Shepard to concede to Asari cultural demands, rather than Liara the other way. I agree with Sarcastic Tasha, it seems more characteristic of Asari's to adapt, than humans (represented as rather rigid in ME). Maybe it's because we play peace-making paragon Sheps?

[Akernis]

Arcataye wrote...

kyg_20X6 wrote...

'Bondmate' seems somewhat clinical. Does it just refer to who the Asari received the genetic data from? The codex says these relationships can be flings for reproduction or long-lasting relationships. Do they use 'bondmate' for both?

- 'Asari exchange them sometimes, with good friends or... their bondmates.'
And the cute little smile in the end. It's definitely not used to describe flings.

I am with Arcataye on this one, I think Bondmate is a really intimate word and used as such, I think it more closely resembles the huamn equavalent of soul mates than husbond/wife or even lovers. But that might just be me.

[Theodoro]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
Something else here - Asari last names in general - I believe we don't know enough about Asari culture to know how they come up with their last names or if they have any special meaning. It seems like a lot of Asari use something like [some letter]'[Name] though, doesn't it? T'Soni, T'Loak. Do we know any other Asari last names? I'd really like to know what the reasoning is behind that, what it means, if there is a meaning.

I agree, I think an explanation for these names would be pretty neat as, for example, we know how Salarian names are formed (their homeworlds, their districts, and so on) and I don't recall the asari names being mentioned in any of the Codex entries.

I wish we could just have the ability to explore other cultures and history of the various races in Mass Effect in an interactive setting, no combat needed. For example, having the ability to visit Thessia without seeing it torn apart by the Reapers. There we would be able to learn a lot more about the Asari - not necessarily in text or anything, but in an interactive story. We could do that for the Citadel throughout all three games and we got to see various districts of it. Though, unfortunately, I don't think a lot of people would go for that.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

Wulfram wrote...

It annoyed me a little.  It's not really a conversation that makes sense - really it would all come down to picking the appropriate translation for concepts that wouldn't really match up between the Asari language and English.

It also seems to conflict with Liara's conversations in ME1, where it seems like Liara is using "father" only because there isn't a better word available.

edit:  Also, my FemShep has no problem with being anthropocentric about herself, so she's not going to be called father, thank you very much.

Yeah it did contradict what Liara said in ME1. But it was funny so I can forgive the contradiction. I like that Shepard's comparison between two asari and two human women doesn't really work. She comes across as a bit of an arse and Aethyta calls her out on it. 

[kyg_20X6]

frudi wrote...

Actually Aethyta says they were together for over a century and did in fact love each other. They apparently split up while Benezia was pregnant and while Liara never met or even knew of her father growing up, Benezia and Aethyta obviously stayed in at least some occasional contact even long after Liara was born.

I was under the impression Aethyta was around at least for a little while after Liara was born (maybe not long enough for Liara to have memories of her). The 'little wing' dialogue made me think this. It was an odd thing to say about a child you've never seen (isn't born yet).

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 14 mai 2012 - 11:41 .

[Akernis]

Theodoro wrote...
I wish we could just have the ability to explore other cultures and history of the various races in Mass Effect in an interactive setting, no combat needed. For example, having the ability to visit Thessia without seeing it torn apart by the Reapers. There we would be able to learn a lot more about the Asari - not necessarily in text or anything, but in an interactive story. We could do that for the Citadel throughout all three games and we got to see various districts of it. Though, unfortunately, I don't think a lot of people would go for that.

A lot of us here, Aristobulus and I in particular, are very interested in that and dearly wish that they wíll make an pre-Reaper Thessia DLC where we really get the chance to explore and learn about the asari.

Modifié par Akernis, 14 mai 2012 - 11:44 .

[Aristobulus500]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Bondmate is used in game as pretty much equivalent to husband/wife. You can be registered as a bondmate with the government, you have a special gown and bracelet for your bond ceremony.

Really? That's cool to know. So I guess the term does have sentinental 'weight'.
I also find it interesting that people expect Shepard to concede to Asari cultural demands, rather than Liara the other way. I agree with Sarcastic Tasha, it seems more characteristic of Asari's to adapt, than humans (represented as rather rigid in ME). Maybe it's because we play peace-making paragon Sheps?

Part of it is just...a bit of wish fulfillment. I find Asari culture and such very fascinating so I like to headcanon out that my Shepard has a bit of the Thessia Fever himself so he would only be more than willing to adopt Asari culture rather than make Liara give up some of her...Asari-ness and such.

I also feel that it's a bit more thematically appropriate, especially for a Paragon Shep that's all about unity - a renegade Shepard, being all human dominance, would be much less likely to adopt Asari culture and much more likely to push Liara to adopt human culture.

But to me, Liara giving up part of her culture, cheapens her character - part of the allure and appeal to her is just how alien she is - she's very exotic, and for me personally, learning about Asari culture and her beliefs and attitudes relative to that, is what turned me on to liking Liara and the Asari so much, back in ME1 - so if this is lost, if she gives it up, it's less interesting to me...

And Shepard is more of a blank slate type character, so it's easier to imagine Shepard being able to mold to an alien culture.

[Aristobulus500]

Akernis wrote...

Theodoro wrote...
I wish we could just have the ability to explore other cultures and history of the various races in Mass Effect in an interactive setting, no combat needed. For example, having the ability to visit Thessia without seeing it torn apart by the Reapers. There we would be able to learn a lot more about the Asari - not necessarily in text or anything, but in an interactive story. We could do that for the Citadel throughout all three games and we got to see various districts of it. Though, unfortunately, I don't think a lot of people would go for that.

A lot of us here, Aristobulus and I in particular, are very interested in that and dearly wish that they wíll make an pre-Reaper Thessia DLC where we really get the chance to explore and learn about the asari.

Absolutely. There are few things in the game I desire more than the ability to do this. I have been wanting it badly ever since I learned about Thessia and the Asari, and became attached to and invested in Liara, all the way back in ME1. I've let my imagination run wild constantly since then, imagining what you could do with say, an non-destroyed Thessia as a hub, like the Citadel or Illium were, and just the ability to explore it with Liara - there's so much potential there for learning more about the Asari and events that could happen to deepen and flesh out Shep/Liara relationship...

Liara could be as a guide to Shep as they explore, telling him of the places they are visiting and explaining Asari culture and customs and actually getting him immersed in it as an LI, and at the same time it introduces the player to the Asari more and their culture, and gets the player invested in both.

As it is...the Asari are just extremely wasted. They are talked up and hyped up so much throughout the series and nothing of value is done with them. It really pisses me off and disappoints me. A DLC that fixes this, allowing a pre-Reaper exploration of Thessia, is really sorely needed. As it is, many players just have no interest in the Asari, and why should they? You never do anything with them - throughout the series you spend so much time with the Quarians, or the Krogan, and even the Turians and Salarians, that the Asari just don't seem to matter at all.

[Theodoro]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
Part of it is just...a bit of wish fulfillment. I find Asari culture and such very fascinating so I like to headcanon out that my Shepard has a bit of the Thessia Fever himself so he would only be more than willing to adopt Asari culture rather than make Liara give up some of her...Asari-ness and such.

I also feel that it's a bit more thematically appropriate, especially for a Paragon Shep that's all about unity - a renegade Shepard, being all human dominance, would be much less likely to adopt Asari culture and much more likely to push Liara to adopt human culture.

But to me, Liara giving up part of her culture, cheapens her character - part of the allure and appeal to her is just how alien she is - she's very exotic, and for me personally, learning about Asari culture and her beliefs and attitudes relative to that, is what turned me on to liking Liara and the Asari so much, back in ME1 - so if this is lost, if she gives it up, it's less interesting to me...

And Shepard is more of a blank slate type character, so it's easier to imagine Shepard being able to mold to an alien culture.

Indeed. After all, way back in ME1, Shepard is already drawn to the Asari culture and way of life (the joining, for instance) and it would only make sense that he/she would much rather have an Asari ceremony of some sort rather than draw Liara into human culture.

Although I would love it if Shepard and Liara at least discuss (not necessarily show anything, just talk about it) a possible trip to a rebuilt Earth someday so that Shepard would be able to show her this, this, and that. I think it would go both ways, but for us, as players, it would be more interesting to explore Liara's homeworld. I've always loved it when aliens are interested in human culture, history and expressions, since I see it as grounds for a future unity between species. And I think Liara would be interested in that.

Modifié par Theodoro, 14 mai 2012 - 11:52 .

[kyg_20X6]

lillitheris wrote...

…Er, ‘spouse’?

Doesn't have the same meaning. 'Spouse' is just the mono-gendered, legal replacement for husband/wife. And 'spouse' certainly doesn't carry any sentiment with it. I don't think anyone lovingly refers to another as their 'spouse'.

I was trying to figure out if 'bondmate' meant:

a) Any reproducitve partner.
Members of a committed relationship, possibly a legal definition (like 'husband' or 'wife', suggested by Wulfrum).
c) If it had a further special meaning, used to define a relationship even further than (like 'soulmate', suggested by Akernis).
d) Or if the term is so vague is can be used to mean any of the above. In which case, would people wishing to define their relationship as something more than a) or want to use another term?

Just some Devil's Advocate, it's an intersting topic.

[Sarcastic Tasha]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

I also find it interesting that people expect Shepard to concede to Asari cultural demands, rather than Liara the other way. I agree with Sarcastic Tasha, it seems more characteristic of Asari's to adapt, than humans (represented as rather rigid in ME). Maybe it's because we play peace-making paragon Sheps?

My Shepard is a renegade that solves problems by headbutting them (and she isn't even part krogan). But I imagine she'd let Liara make the wedding plans. Lila Shepard didn't dream of having a big wedding as a kid, she was a bit of a tomboy. Although Liara will have to ask really nicely if she wants Shepard to wear a dress.

I do wish we'd got to find out more about the asari and the other aliens. But I did enjoy the planet descriptions, especially the ones in asari space that mentioned asari mythology.

[Aristobulus500]

Theodoro wrote...

Aristobulus500 wrote...
Part of it is just...a bit of wish fulfillment. I find Asari culture and such very fascinating so I like to headcanon out that my Shepard has a bit of the Thessia Fever himself so he would only be more than willing to adopt Asari culture rather than make Liara give up some of her...Asari-ness and such.

I also feel that it's a bit more thematically appropriate, especially for a Paragon Shep that's all about unity - a renegade Shepard, being all human dominance, would be much less likely to adopt Asari culture and much more likely to push Liara to adopt human culture.

But to me, Liara giving up part of her culture, cheapens her character - part of the allure and appeal to her is just how alien she is - she's very exotic, and for me personally, learning about Asari culture and her beliefs and attitudes relative to that, is what turned me on to liking Liara and the Asari so much, back in ME1 - so if this is lost, if she gives it up, it's less interesting to me...

And Shepard is more of a blank slate type character, so it's easier to imagine Shepard being able to mold to an alien culture.

Indeed. After all, way back in ME1, Shepard is already drawn to the Asari culture and way of life (the joining, for instance) and it would only make sense that he/she would much rather have an Asari ceremony of some sort rather than draw Liara into human culture.

Although I would love it if Shepard and Liara at least discuss (not necessarily show anything, just talk about it) a possible trip to a rebuilt Earth someday so that Shepard would be able to show her this, this, and that. I think it would go both ways, but for us, as players, it would be more interesting to explore Liara's homeworld. I've always loved it when aliens are interested in human culture, history and expressions, since I see it as grounds for a future unity between species. And I think Liara would be interested in that.

Oh don't get me wrong - I do think Liara would be interested in learning about human culture too - I can definitely see Shepard introducing her to it just as she can introduce him to Asari culture. I just don't much like the idea of Liara actually giving up her Asari heritage to take on human cultures and customs, though I have no problem with her being interested in merely learning about it, and wanting to do things like visit Earth and such.

As I said, I prefer to headcanon that Shepard takes on more Asari customs and they would move to Thessia and help out with the rebuilding there, but that they would occasionally take trips to Earth to help out there too and visit - their home would still be on Thessia, among Asari.

[Wulfram]

Possibly the "you're treating her like a little bird" came after Liara dug up the park looking for ruins? And was what prompted Benezia to buy Liara the history book?

[Akernis]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Akernis wrote...

Theodoro wrote...
I wish we could just have the ability to explore other cultures and history of the various races in Mass Effect in an interactive setting, no combat needed. For example, having the ability to visit Thessia without seeing it torn apart by the Reapers. There we would be able to learn a lot more about the Asari - not necessarily in text or anything, but in an interactive story. We could do that for the Citadel throughout all three games and we got to see various districts of it. Though, unfortunately, I don't think a lot of people would go for that.

A lot of us here, Aristobulus and I in particular, are very interested in that and dearly wish that they wíll make an pre-Reaper Thessia DLC where we really get the chance to explore and learn about the asari.

Absolutely. There are few things in the game I desire more than the ability to do this. I have been wanting it badly ever since I learned about Thessia and the Asari, and became attached to and invested in Liara, all the way back in ME1. I've let my imagination run wild constantly since then, imagining what you could do with say, an non-destroyed Thessia as a hub, like the Citadel or Illium were, and just the ability to explore it with Liara - there's so much potential there for learning more about the Asari and events that could happen to deepen and flesh out Shep/Liara relationship...

Liara could be as a guide to Shep as they explore, telling him of the places they are visiting and explaining Asari culture and customs and actually getting him immersed in it as an LI, and at the same time it introduces the player to the Asari more and their culture, and gets the player invested in both.

As it is...the Asari are just extremely wasted. They are talked up and hyped up so much throughout the series and nothing of value is done with them. It really pisses me off and disappoints me. A DLC that fixes this, allowing a pre-Reaper exploration of Thessia, is really sorely needed. As it is, many players just have no interest in the Asari, and why should they? You never do anything with them - throughout the series you spend so much time with the Quarians, or the Krogan, and even the Turians and Salarians, that the Asari just don't seem to matter at all.

I hate it when I can't add anything useful to discussion beyond simply "I agree, completely"

[Theodoro]

Aristobulus500 wrote...
Absolutely. There are few things in the game I desire more than the ability to do this. I have been wanting it badly ever since I learned about Thessia and the Asari, and became attached to and invested in Liara, all the way back in ME1. I've let my imagination run wild constantly since then, imagining what you could do with say, an non-destroyed Thessia as a hub, like the Citadel or Illium were, and just the ability to explore it with Liara - there's so much potential there for learning more about the Asari and events that could happen to deepen and flesh out Shep/Liara relationship...

Liara could be as a guide to Shep as they explore, telling him of the places they are visiting and explaining Asari culture and customs and actually getting him immersed in it as an LI, and at the same time it introduces the player to the Asari more and their culture, and gets the player invested in both.

As it is...the Asari are just extremely wasted. They are talked up and hyped up so much throughout the series and nothing of value is done with them. It really pisses me off and disappoints me. A DLC that fixes this, allowing a pre-Reaper exploration of Thessia, is really sorely needed. As it is, many players just have no interest in the Asari, and why should they? You never do anything with them - throughout the series you spend so much time with the Quarians, or the Krogan, and even the Turians and Salarians, that the Asari just don't seem to matter at all.

Exactly my thoughts. The conversation with Liara regarding Asari culture and history in ME1 was unarguably leading up to something great. I was just fascinated with everything she had to say about them, and unfortunately, they were probably the least explored race in ME1 so I thought that we would see more of them in the following two games.

Illium was awesome, I liked it, but it was not in Asari space, which is the bulk of pure Asari civilization which has retained its culture without influence. And in ME2 we got to hear a lot more about them from Samara, even some of the darker sides of the Asari and their way of life (the Ardat-Yakshi - I loved hearing about the different interpretations of Ardat-Yakshi in different timelines of Asari history).

And ME3 was that one chance where the player could be able to explore the Asari race and their home to the fullest - Thessia. Why couldn't we get to see it, like we did Tuchanka, before it was swept up in the storm that is the Reaper war? The same about Sur'Kesh and Palaven - because of the Reaper threat, which is a global issue, we really couldn't spend any time being immersed in alien territory - the change is mostly for different environments, and it is necessary because we have to pick up their help. However, that does not allow the player to really take in this new setting of a species with entirely different history and development than ours. There's just so much potential here.

Aristobulus500 wrote...
Oh don't get me wrong - I do think Liara would be interested in learning about human culture too - I can definitely see Shepard introducing her to it just as she can introduce him to Asari culture. I just don't much like the idea of Liara actually giving up her Asari heritage to take on human cultures and customs, though I have no problem with her being interested in merely learning about it, and wanting to do things like visit Earth and such.

As I said, I prefer to headcanon that Shepard takes on more Asari customs and they would move to Thessia and help out with the rebuilding there, but that they would occasionally take trips to Earth to help out there too and visit - their home would still be on Thessia, among Asari.

Yes, Liara should definitely not give up anything about her species, it would be very out-of-character, even if she does it for Shepard. I can totally see her actually wanting to show him/her as much as she can of her homeworld, her childhood, and anything else about the Asari. And any Shepard would be interested in seeing that and exploring it further with Liara.

Modifié par Theodoro, 14 mai 2012 - 12:05 .

[kyg_20X6]

Aristobulus500 wrote...

Part of it is just...a bit of wish fulfillment. I find Asari culture and such very fascinating so I like to headcanon out that my Shepard has a bit of the Thessia Fever himself so he would only be more than willing to adopt Asari culture rather than make Liara give up some of her...Asari-ness and such.

I also feel that it's a bit more thematically appropriate, especially for a Paragon Shep that's all about unity - a renegade Shepard, being all human dominance, would be much less likely to adopt Asari culture and much more likely to push Liara to adopt human culture.

But to me, Liara giving up part of her culture, cheapens her character - part of the allure and appeal to her is just how alien she is - she's very exotic, and for me personally, learning about Asari culture and her beliefs and attitudes relative to that, is what turned me on to liking Liara and the Asari so much, back in ME1 - so if this is lost, if she gives it up, it's less interesting to me...

And Shepard is more of a blank slate type character, so it's easier to imagine Shepard being able to mold to an alien culture.

Interesting.

For me, I'd like to see the two compromise. Both (naturally) adopting parts of eachother's culture. I see Shepard's relationship with Liara as a personal analogue to the compromises and alliances Shepard is enacting on a galactic level. That's why I find this so fascinating. Their cultures are very different in some respects (especially the one we're discussing). Where would Shepard's human sentiment cave way and where would it hold? And vice-versa for Liara?  Where would Shepard proactively change for Liara, and vice-versa? How would their children identify themselves?

I'd find it interesting to see Liara using human terms, or developing an interest in human cuisine and culture. And maybe Shepard falling in love with Thessia and its fashion and philosophies. It's interesting to think how they'd identify themselves.

Just like in today's cosmopolitan, multi-cultural world; people may see themselves, their interests, their relationships, in a different way than someone else, or in a way that differs to (current) cultural norms.

EDIT: Top!! (a Shep/Liara 'I know that feel bro'?)

Modifié par kyg_20X6, 14 mai 2012 - 12:11 .

[Arcataye]

Akernis wrote...
I hate it when I can't add anything useful to discussion beyond simply "I agree, completely"

"I agree, completely."
-

To be honest "my Shepard" would back up Liara's decisions, whatever they might be. She has no connection to Earth so she'd be more than happy to live on Thessia if Liara wants so. Let their daughter dig around the same park where Liara spent her childhood.
-

The vocal majority seems to think that Liara is already too much in the game so Bioware could be hesitant to do a Thessia/Liara DLC.  But who cares! Pre-Reaper Thessia DLC where we get to spend time with Liara?

Modifié par Arcataye, 14 mai 2012 - 12:22 .